Feeling shame, opiate addict

[EPL1]

And sometimes that's all you can do. Say sorry and move on. You might have to taper slower, that's ok.


You're human, try to be kind and patient with yourself. Things WILL get better.

Hugs,
your friend,
Ash.

I belive it was the lower dose of ativan, now im worried wt im in for coming of it! So frustrated i thought i beat addiction n now im worried ativan will be hard to come off too , i was really cranky with everybody today and feel really bad about it. I did apologize

 

[Mafioso]

Hey GS, it's pretty common to experience a deep depression marked with anhedonia(the inability to feel pleasure) after making it through the acute/physical withdrawal phase. Don't be too alarmed about this.. it's going to take a while for your body(including brain) to adjust back to normal. It's also pretty normal to start having wide mood swings, going to from hopeless crying to euphoric happiness back to calm to anxious to low. This is just you learning how to regulate emotions naturally again. It shouldn't persist longer than a few weeks or so.

If you remember, I had mentioned to stop benzo use as soon as you stated there were no acute/physical WD symptoms. This is largely because a person can become physically dependent on benzos in as short as 2-3 weeks(depending on benzo half-life and individual biology). I believe psychological addiction can happen in less time, especially for someone in your condition. They're known to alleviate the symptoms of depression but are not considered a good treatment for depression by many because of dependence problems and abuse potential. Once you start to build a tolerance to them they no longer relieve depression, leave you tired and burnout feeling, and then by that point you are at risk of serious WDs that can result in seizure, psychosis, and sometimes even death. Many say getting off benzos was harder than getting off opioids.

It might be safer to do a slow taper to avoid any potential problems or serious WDs. I think the Ashton manual says something like a 10% taper every month. It's possible to do a more rapid taper but you have to really listen to your body, and if youre unfamiliar with benzo WD symptoms it's best to go slow.

 

[Gunslinger354]

Mr mafioso, im very inexpereinced with these meds as far as benzos and stuff, which one is the benzo? Is it clonidine or ativan? Today is day 12 off vicodin, and yesterday was the first day of 1mg to .5 mg of ativan. I feel ok today but its early yet, i surely dont want to ever go through a withdrawl worse than opiate wd!!!

 

[EPL1]

Ativan is the benzo.

Mr mafioso, im very inexpereinced with these meds as far as benzos and stuff, which one is the benzo? Is it clonidine or ativan? Today is day 12 off vicodin, and yesterday was the first day of 1mg to .5 mg of ativan. I feel ok today but its early yet, i surely dont want to ever go through a withdrawl worse than opiate wd!!!

 

[Xorkoth]

Ativan (benzos in general) produce a more severe withdrawal than opiates (though different). However there is good news. You're on a low dose and it hasn't been for very long so the withdrawal won't be nearly as bad as it would at a higher dose or if you'd been on them for longer. And, with a slow taper, benzo withdrawal can be relatively painless. If it's too difficult dropping from 1mg to .5mg, consider dropping only to .75mg, then after you feel stable on that, to .5mg. Dropping from 1mg to .5mg may only be a .5mg drop, but it's also reducing your dose by half which is a huge drop percentage-wise. If you drop by only .25mg (to .75mg), that's a 25% drop which should be much more manageable. But first see if you feel okay with the drop to .5mg because if you can get away with it, it would make the taper faster. But don't feel bad if you have to drop down to .75mg first, that's totally normal. You should stick to a given level after you drop for a couple of weeks if possible until you feel normal on it. The way to get through benzo withdrawal is a slow taper, otherwise it can be pretty hellish.

You got this.

 

[Mafioso]

Mr mafioso, im very inexpereinced with these meds as far as benzos and stuff, which one is the benzo? Is it clonidine or ativan? Today is day 12 off vicodin, and yesterday was the first day of 1mg to .5 mg of ativan. I feel ok today but its early yet, i surely dont want to ever go through a withdrawl worse than opiate wd!!!

Yeah benzo is short for benzodiazepine, a class of meds classified as "anti-anxiety" that work on the GABA receptors of the brain. Ativan(brand name) is an anti-anxiety med, generic name lorazepam. It is a fast acting drug that has a relatively short half-life, and shorter half-life will lead to faster physical dependency(at least with benzos).

You are on a relatively low dose for a fairly short amount of time, so I wouldn't be overly concerned about the more severe symptoms, but I also wouldn't recommend dropping your dose beyond what is "comfortable". One of the biggest signs of benzo withdrawal is "rebound anxiety"- basically your ability to handle stress is greatly reduced and everything will become way more stressful. Insomnia or reduced sleep is another sign. If you start getting nauseous, can't eat and start vomiting combined with other WD symptoms, it's likely you'll need to re-dose and adjust your dosing.

You'll be ok though, so long as you keep taking care of yourself along with the help of your wife, family and us here on BL. Just update us on how you feel, and if things start feeling really off, let your wife know and even if something extreme like a seizure were to happen you'll be ok. I'd avoid pushing yourself physically if at all possible. I've had a seizure while working before and I'm lucky I was in a sand pit when it happened. Second time I fell on a chair and still have back problems from it.

Note: I was doing large amounts of Xanax so I was experiencing the extreme end of WDs.

 

[Gunslinger354]

I stopped the clonidine AND ativan completely after yesterday at 8am, i guess i 1 wanted to see if i really needed them and 2 scared to go through ANOTHER withdrawl, i feel fine i guess but i will say i havent slept much between last night and the night before, i think ive got 5 hrs between last two days, and here it is sat night at 11:40 and im not even remotely tired and thats after under 3hrs sleep last night. I do have a question, those of you who have been through opiate withdrawl know the smell you excrete through your skin (at least i hope somebody here knows what im talking about) after stopping the meds yesterday i ve noticed my hands have that distinct "smell" again, and i havent had this occur since the 3rd day off vics , now here i am 13 days off vic and the smell is back!! Please tell me its from the ativan and not a wd symptom of it!

 

[Mafioso]

I think the smell you are talking about is related to a heightened stress response. I'm pretty sure cold sweats are largely a result of the limbic system(the part of your brain that regulates autonomic functions like body temp and heart rate) "misfiring". I don't think it's from sweating out a metabolite of the drugs, otherwise the smell would be present from the beginning of use. In my experience, it's because I'm sweating in a nervous or stressed kind of way. It's not a sweat like you get from exercise, more like the sweat you get from embarrassment or extreme nervousness, which I understand to be a result of the body struggling to regulate emotion without the drugs.

If you are having that bad of insomnia, it might not be a bad idea to take a nightly dose. You can keep the dose at .5 for a few nights then drop it to .25 for a few nights, then start going every other night if that is going smoothly. Then every 2-3 days for a week, then only as needed for 2 weeks then nothing at all. That way you can plan that in 1 month you will be free from all drugs AND no acute withdrawal symptoms. You can go quicker than that, like you are, but from the sound of it you are just entering some mild benzo WD. The alpha blocker (clonidine?) might have some mild WDs as well, like increased heart rate and restlessness.

Then again, if you can fall asleep, your able to eat and hold food down, no nausea, vomiting, or diarrhea, and aren't crawling out of your skin with anxiety, you'll probably be ok with cold turkey. It'll be difficult to say exactly what is opioid WD, and what might be benzo/alpha blocker wd at this point. Beta and alpha blockers are said to both require tapering to safely get off them, at around 10% per step down. They regulate your heart rate and immediate cessation can cause problems as well.

How are your vitals? Because you weren't on them for a long time, you probably don't need to do the 10% taper, however it might be wise to do a rapid taper so the abrupt stop isn't such a huge shock to your body.

 

[Gunslinger354]

My vitals are ok, but i had to take my clonidine and ativan .5 lil bit ago, sleep is eluding me right now. Like i said i hadnt taken then since yesterday at 8 am but bout 4 hours ago i was very anxious and having restless legs. I feel disapointed in myself as i thought i was doing good but guess i was kidding myself

 

[Mafioso]

Hey don't get too down on yourself... You are doing extremely well with all things considered. It's not that you aren't making huge amount of progress, it's just that the problem is maybe a little bit bigger than you might have initially anticipated, or at least what you had anticipated while on the comfort meds. They can kind of lure you into a false sense of security.

Being that you have had the reaction that you did when completely stopping the Ativan and clonidine, it might be wise if you stick to daily(nightly or morning) doses for a brief time like I mention in the second paragraph above. Personally I wouldn't recommend taking those medications without a strict plan to taper and stop completely. It's not that I don't think these medications have any benefit, just that they can be very dangerous as well.

Just give it some more time and I promise things will start to improve. You are only like 2 weeks off opioids? You're doing better than a lot just by getting to this point with no relapse to opioids. For a lot of people getting clean can take months or even years. One of the biggest things you seem to have going for you is catching problems early on and being willing to address them before things really spiral out of control. That alone will keep you out of a lot of shit.

 

[Andihav]

GS, I wish I had seen this thread sooner! Im a heart patient in her 40s & have been going to pain management for 7 yrs. Ive also been on & off many diff benzos @ various times throughout the years....
Ive weened down from 1mg ativan before & I did it by quarters.... went to .75, then .5, finally .25. If you have enough to do it I would suggest one week at least per level. Ive had to ween from ativan a couple of times and that seemed to be the best. Im not trying to step on any toes of others advice but wanted to speak up.

BTW, I read the whole thread and must say good for you man! You did it! Coming off opiates is hell on earth. I was so happy to read of your success and Ash was such a kind friend! Im glad that you're feeling better with Christmas in a couple days!

Have a great holiday and congrats again!
Andi

 

[EPL1]

No way!!! Don't be disappointed, I'm so proud of you!! You've done such a great job GS!!!

Congrats on having 2 weeks under your belt!!!

You're the best, I hope you're having a good day!!

What are your holiday plans?

Much love and support,
'your friend,
Ash.

My vitals are ok, but i had to take my clonidine and ativan .5 lil bit ago, sleep is eluding me right now. Like i said i hadnt taken then since yesterday at 8 am but bout 4 hours ago i was very anxious and having restless legs. I feel disapointed in myself as i thought i was doing good but guess i was kidding myself

 

[EPL1]

Congrats on 2 weeks Gunslinger!!! So proud of you!!!

 

[Gunslinger354]

Well, i took my meds today again as scheduled clonidine and .5 ativan, bout 3 hours after i felt like a scared cat, really edgy, but i just pushed through it, children are really excited for xmas but im just hoping to have a good day for them ,

 

[EPL1]

You're doing great!!

You'll get through it, enjoy Christmas with the fam gunslinger. Proud of you!!!

You got this and we've got you!!

Your friend,

Ash.

Well, i took my meds today again as scheduled clonidine and .5 ativan, bout 3 hours after i felt like a scared cat, really edgy, but i just pushed through it, children are really excited for xmas but im just hoping to have a good day for them ,

 

[Gunslinger354]

I womder if the dr dropped the ativan too quickly, 1mg to .5, i felt great last week but once the med change happened i noticed a difference, i see her thursday, kinda scared, i was supposed to see the pa again but i feel i need to face to face with my dr about me over using the vics she prescribed me, i want to appologize to her for decieving her, is that weird? But i feel i owe it to her to man up

 

[EPL1]

First let me preface this by saying this is only my point of view. Ok, disclaimer over. ; )

Being honest to ease your guilt is a bell that can't be unrung, just so you know that. Once that's on your file, it's on there. So as long as you are aware of that.

I womder if the dr dropped the ativan too quickly, 1mg to .5, i felt great last week but once the med change happened i noticed a difference, i see her thursday, kinda scared, i was supposed to see the pa again but i feel i need to face to face with my dr about me over using the vics she prescribed me, i want to appologize to her for decieving her, is that weird? But i feel i owe it to her to man up

 

[Gunslinger354]

Thanks Andi , im really trying here, honestly i dont have vicodin cravings (i really havent in over a week) its this edgyness thats returned thats making me climb the walls, i belive youre right i tappered to none wayyyy to fast
George

 

[Gunslinger354]

But she knows i went to er for wds that night and continued to prescribe the comfort meds , well the pa did but im positive my dr would HAVE to know what went on, im not afraid to tell her because i dont want any pain meds from her
Thanks for everything Ash
Your friend George

 

[EPL1]

Aaaah I see now, ok. You're a straight shooter George, that's awesome.

Hugs,
your friend,
Ash.

But she knows i went to er for wds that night and continued to prescribe the comfort meds , well the pa did but im positive my dr would HAVE to know what went on, im not afraid to tell her because i dont want any pain meds from her
Thanks for everything Ash
Your friend George