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Thread: Trump opioid bill just passed. Gives Sessions sole power to set caps for manufacture

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    #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cream Gravy? View Post
    Why? Don't you want your medication to be affordable Captain? I was certainly pissed when I had to pay 80 bucks just to get some antibiotics a few weeks ago.
    Of course I do.

    Limiting how many years a drug can be brand-name only is wisest; then generics can be cheap. I think it isn’t decades anymore. In any case, change like this is coming.

    Capping profit on rx’s, rent, etc is going to backfire.
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    #52
    backfire against who?

    Are you playing contrarian because it's Trump
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    #53
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    I'm also not sure how it would backfire. It would, however, prevent companies from hiking heart medication costs 5000% overnight, as happened within the past year or 2 in a high-profile case. It makes no sense that a non-generic, monopolized version of a drug can cost literally like 100x as much as a generic in some cases. It means someone decided they wanted to 100x their profit at the expense of people who need a medication.

    yes I pulled those figures out of nowhere... but it doesn't matter because the point is the same regardless of specific numbers.
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    #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmeister View Post
    I'm also not sure how it would backfire. It would, however, prevent companies from hiking heart medication costs 5000% overnight, as happened within the past year or 2 in a high-profile case. It makes no sense that a non-generic, monopolized version of a drug can cost literally like 100x as much as a generic in some cases. It means someone decided they wanted to 100x their profit at the expense of people who need a medication.

    yes I pulled those figures out of nowhere... but it doesn't matter because the point is the same regardless of specific numbers.
    This is how companies compensate for waning profits.

    Trump should have sat down and asked the companies nicely to not price-gouge individual drugs

    Scientific advancement is more important than anything. If there is a drug too expensive - competing drug companies will make analogous drugs. More discoveries and life will get better when we find safer / better drugs (invariably what happens as comparative studies are conducted over time)

    I believe the material world and advancing it and our scientific knowledge is more important than my life.

    Considering how much these discoveries (modern medicine) impact the whole of society in a beneficial way, I expect Shadow to understand and Jg to become enraged.
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    #55
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    I dunno, it sounds to me like you're just apologizing for predatory business practices. Making an analogous drug takes years, by the time it gets FDA approval. Meanwhile people are suffering because a CEO wants to make even more money. You can't tell me that pharmaceutical companies are struggling to make ends meet and that's why they jack prices up so high on a whim. Big pharma is among the biggest money in the world. It's an industry that is an example of why we need governmental regulations. Because otherwise big money comes in, buys the government and does whatever they want. I'm sorry but I don't see why some rich CEO or rich shareholders get to do whatever they want with the price of drugs that people need to life a healthy life or survive, just because they feel like it. It hurts the entire system except the pocketbooks of certain wealthy people.
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    #56
    Thanks for the level-headed 10,000ft view on some of the issues that plague's us in the US today. I've been on Suboxone for 1yr now and a worried that I may never get off it. I fucked up by using Oxy recreationally and when that ran out the rest is history. Both Dems and Republicans have blame but lets all be honest, the REPUBLICAN PARTY benefits the 1% and THAT IS ALL. They pretend to care about opiod addiction but only because they want to "look" like they care. Anyway, GO VOTE AND MAKE CHANGE HAPPEN!
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    #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmeister View Post
    I dunno, it sounds to me like you're just apologizing for predatory business practices. Making an analogous drug takes years, by the time it gets FDA approval. Meanwhile people are suffering because a CEO wants to make even more money. You can't tell me that pharmaceutical companies are struggling to make ends meet and that's why they jack prices up so high on a whim. Big pharma is among the biggest money in the world. It's an industry that is an example of why we need governmental regulations. Because otherwise big money comes in, buys the government and does whatever they want. I'm sorry but I don't see why some rich CEO or rich shareholders get to do whatever they want with the price of drugs that people need to life a healthy life or survive, just because they feel like it. It hurts the entire system except the pocketbooks of certain wealthy people.
    FDA approval is being sped up thanks to Trump. This is the *one and only* good thing Trump ever did.

    Reforms are coming. Hold tight comrade.

    STEM companies and professions should pay and earn well. I am not going to apologize for this.
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    #58
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    All I'm saying is they can pay and earn quite well even if there is some oversight as to how predatory they can be. You may consider the right for corporations to make whatever profit they choose worth more than your life, but with the medical industries it's about a lot more lives than yours.
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    #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmeister View Post
    All I'm saying is they can pay and earn quite well even if there is some oversight as to how predatory they can be. You may consider the right for corporations to make whatever profit they choose worth more than your life, but with the medical industries it's about a lot more lives than yours.
    The right to profit isn't particularly what I said; I ascribed the material world and scientific advancements being more important than my life.

    Not to quibble, because I like you and I think you deserve your opinions, but why are you so OK with the government subsidizing education but not medicine? Why aren't we screaming at universities to lower tuition, etc? It's because price-controlling commodities never works out, it makes the standards of life worse, it stifles the free economy, etc.
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    #60
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    I actually think what should be screaming at universities to lower tuition. I also am not sure free college education makes sense in America, but it should be able to be affordable. Same with pharmaceuticals. If someone needs a heart medication to survive, and one company owns the rights to it, they should not be allowed to jack the price up to suit whatever fancy pleases them. It should be reasonable and based on need, not based on having a monopoly so being able to do whatever you want.
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    #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmeister View Post
    I actually think what should be screaming at universities to lower tuition. I also am not sure free college education makes sense in America, but it should be able to be affordable. Same with pharmaceuticals. If someone needs a heart medication to survive, and one company owns the rights to it, they should not be allowed to jack the price up to suit whatever fancy pleases them. It should be reasonable and based on need, not based on having a monopoly so being able to do whatever you want.
    When we all have phd's and no jobs in the future, that will be a lot of wasted effort and manpower that could have otherwise been spent working, generating GDP etc.

    I totally don't think we need to subsidize/lower higher education costs. Things are going well; if anything there's still too many people with degrees they cannot use and this should be alarming to us.
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    #62
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    That's true. But I'm not saying send everyone to college. I'm just saying, if someone wants to pursue higher education, I think it shouldn't end them in decades of debt. It didn't used to be that way. Now it is.
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    #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by svacheme3 View Post
    Look, I'm a very liberal person who would never even consider voting for a Republican, but this is absolutely 100% bipartisan. Democrat drug tolerance stops and ends at pot, when it comes to opiates they want the same thing, ramp up prohibition even harder, crack down on doctors, increase sentences, arrest arrest arrest. They favor slightly more coerced treatment. Let's not let this one fall into the us vs. them political sewer, this is an area where the left is every bit as fucking awful as the right.
    I'm not even American. Just been following what some of the YT "personalities" I follow, some of them Republicans who are absolutely furious at Trump Co. especially since he hired PNAC-Bolton in. Many were saying that Session was going to be "let loose" after the mid-terms. Clinton was worse because she was saying psychopathic things after rigging her way in out of Sanders saying she would use nukes on Russia every time she could. That woman isn't only physically ill, parkinson's and dementia being heavily used by her according to ex-White House Secret Service agent Gary Byrne (read his book, frightening stuff).

    Basically, if even people who vote Republicans on most things I follow because they do other things I find interesting online along with my actual american friends saying similar things. Especially that insane amount of sealed indictments that keep piling up from the DOJ since January 20th 2017 is making me as nervous when more ^^s who hear and read more about internal US politics saying Sessions was going to be "activated" after the mid-terms, I tend to believe it. Because he's been awfully quiet other than indicting people of crimes, sealing them and likely unseal them when politically expedient...it's not too far of a reach for me.
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    #64
    I?m already there... I take opioids. What I once abused I now use!! ... and yes, I could use more. I feel NOTHING as far as euphoria, just some relief but still pain. Our government is a bunch of asshats.
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    #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmeister View Post
    That's true. But I'm not saying send everyone to college. I'm just saying, if someone wants to pursue higher education, I think it shouldn't end them in decades of debt. It didn't used to be that way. Now it is.
    The inability to declare bankruptcy and not pay the outstanding bills stopped literally and only because of Donald Trump; and this happened long before he ran for presidency. Anyone remember when this changed? Am I remembering it incorrectly? Link?

    You can pursue college without decades of debt. You can do work study, get grants, and if you take out loans you'll never have to pay them back as long as you remain a student for life (they are making this harder as time goes on, but it is not impossible).
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    #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain.Heroin View Post
    You can pursue college without decades of debt. You can do work study, get grants, and if you take out loans you'll never have to pay them back as long as you remain a student for life (they are making this harder as time goes on, but it is not impossible).
    But that's a pretty niche desire. Most people go to college to get a degree so they're qualified in a field and then work in that field. Most people don't want to be in academia for life. If your goal is to be a college professor, or have a position in a university where you pursue the cutting edge of research in your field, then sure. But that's a tremendous minority of scenarios.

    As far as I know, bankruptcy still does not absolve student loans... unlike any other type of unsecured loan.
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    #67
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    Yes it does. In modern bankruptcy you plot out a payment plan.

    If someone has been through it recently and wants to contradict me go for it.
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    #68
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    Capt'n. I respect you a bunch, but didn't you say you only slammed Dilaudid once, and it was a 1mg pill at that and you found that to be extreme (the rush at least) ? Even 120x8mg Dilaudids at the pharmacy being under 50 is a bad thing, Purdue are getting robbed by evil Canadian laws ?

    Maybe it's because I already was used to oxycodone or high doses of codeine not used in the US (we have Codeine Contins 200mg here or T1's and 222's to extract a good 300mg of it, and codeine cough syrup scripted for painful nonproductive cough at 30mg/5ml is pure, always). Anyways, when I first shot just one mg at a time, I thought fuck that, and resumed crushing the 1's and snorting lines, thankfully it was the brand name ones so I could at least get in 3mg through the nose and like it better that way. You know, it's not just opioids, they don't cost much at all, even less so here due to generics companies being in control pretty much, everything loses its patent very quickly here. Which is good, some generic companies even do their own subsequent research to add to Health Canada's database, the FDA would never do that, would they? Anyway, 60x60mg generic Oxycodone-CR costs me about the cost of a 30 pack of cheap beer at Costco. And they rake it in anyways, if we think of meds that apply to everyone, like antibiotics and creams for skin conditions and other stuff that's not generic, like my Symbicort inhaler, "thankfully" I already had a little asthma when I was prescribed it, so it's a little under a Brown for it instead of close to a ticket flight to NYC from MTL, which is the price for everyone else who isn't granted the pre-existing condition exception.

    It's like Adderal XR (no IR here, Trump would be mad he couldn't snort XR's (please do not crush XR beads to snort, especially Adderal XR, Biphentin etc, they're even dirtier than HMC's and even M-Eslons), you need a form, either from your private work insurance if they have it or the government's, to get the generic "Mixed Amphetamine Salts", a month's worth of 25mg XR's really hurt to buy. But that's when my doctor after a couple months said, well, "the government refused despite methylphenidate causing you seizures back when you were 17" but there's Dexedrine that's covered no matter what. Motherfucker should have told me first, Adderal XR 25 made my heart go crazy, didn't help with studying/working as much as Dexedrine, I found it more of an aphrodisiac than anything heh, but those prices weren't right, sure it was close to the highest dose of 30, but that's still unreasonable. Dexedrine, somebody on welfare could afford (and would likely get sick of doing nothing in case they're the kind who gets the basic of basics cheque because they don't have a medical issue or some condition having them get an amount that's actually decent, only knew my cousin with MS who was getting that, along with his Sativex inhaler). It's unethical to have people choose between not eating and having meds they really need, point blank. Not an issue for me but it is for many.

    As for the fent H, I always said it is on purpose and an extremely cynical eugenics experiment to get rid of those "wastes of space". I could say worse things since I unfortunately have to hear things like that on podcasts and radio shows where the hosts are fine but sometimes the guest complete wastes of flesh meatheads who think that poisoning addicts is a genius idea.
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