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Getting Caught Looking At Breasts On Display

|~~ANT~~| said:
I honestly don't think I'm repressing any shame or embarrassment. I'm a sexual freak and I'm quite proud of it. I do feel like men have to walk on egg shells at the moment, somewhat, and it's annoying having to cage myself. Are you male or female? (I'm curious.)
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I am male, and overall very happy to be so.

Whether or not you're repressing anything with regards to your own sexual expression, I think by definition, you are experiencing guilt and embarrassment in this instance about having looked, whether or not you actually did anything wrong. Guilt, by definition, is "a feeling of responsibility for some offence, real or imagined" and you clearly do feel responsible, in that, you feel you have an obligation to control your behaviour (whether this obligation is justified, or not). I will go a little further here and say that you clearly are somewhat embarrassed by it, despite your repeated claims otherwise, as you have not told your wife, and have made this thread. I won't bother going over the definition of embarrassment too, but I will say that the social conditioning men experience from Western culture is different to women, and one of the consequences of this conditioning (just speaking in a general sense here - not saying it applies to you specifically) is that men (again, generally speaking - not saying it applies to you) are less inclined to express certain emotions, and more inclined to express these emotions as anger. You can draw your own conclusions from this, of course.

So you are annoyed about the fact that you have to control certain urges. On the face of it, fair enough, but remember this responsibility is shared by everyone within our culture. Speaking from the perspective of your wife's friend, perhaps she had a similar internal conflict going on after this, and found herself annoyed at herself for getting nervous about you looking at her breasts. Perhaps she would have liked to say something funny about it or just accept it as an implied compliment without all the negative stuff, but found herself frustratingly unable to do so. Perhaps because of these negative feelings, she found herself questioning whether she should have worn something less revealing, but understandably found this thought frustrating in itself.

This might seem obvious of course, but I mention it because it's a slippery slope to being frustrated that our society is not culturally more evolved so that these kind of non-events are just a total non-issue, and being frustrated specifically with women and feminism (I use the term feminism in the most general sense possible here - not in reference to any specific movement) and starting to think that perhaps you are just entitled to behave however you want because of basic biology, and that you should be able to look where you want, maybe touch what you want, regardless of whether it makes other people uncomfortable.

I could elaborate on that slippery slope further although I'm sure I don't need to. Hopefully the point is clear, and I don't mean any offence to you, obviously I don't know you, and I would like to assume that you made this thread out of genuine uncertainty about your feelings and a wish to analyse them, rather than a desire to be given permission to act like a "creep" - and I'm sure similar threads have been made in the past by others from the latter camp.

Anyway, going back to my point about the slippery slope, this is what I meant when I said that letting this feeling of annoyance go unchecked can lead you down a dark road. If the target of your annoyance is the former - annoyance that our culture is just not more evolved - this is really an annoyance at all the repressive, backwards ideologies of human history that made sexuality such a taboo subject in the first place, and I would say is quite valid and understandable.

The latter target, annoyance at women specifically, leads you down the dark road of Men's Rights movements, and all the bitterness and negativity associated with them (not that men's rights are not important of course - just that I've never seen any kind of "movement" that didn't make my skin crawl. For the record, I am feeling the need to be very specific about what I am referring to here because I know some gender warrior is going to jump down my throat otherwise - when I reference "feminism" above, I mean "feminism", lower case "F", just the idea women should have a say - "Men's Rights", capital "M" - I am referring to any number of specific movements which from what I've seen often promote some pretty dangerous ideas, the essence of which being that men are entitled not to control themselves around women).

Again, not saying this is where you are - by focusing on it here I'm just hoping to outline some of the reasons why some people might have a knee jerk reaction (one way or the other - men and women alike) when you start talking about, essentially, being annoyed about having to control yourself around women.
 
I think by definition, you are experiencing guilt and embarrassment in this instance
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No offence, but I stopped reading at that point. You're a broken record. You don't know me. I don't know why you're so confident that you know enough about me to insist on this guilt nonsense. What should I be guilty about? I live by other people's rules. If I decided what was socially acceptable and what wasn't, everybody would be able to walk around naked if they wanted to. I don't have hang ups. I do have a high sex drive. It's not helpful to keep telling me I'm embarrassed when I'm telling you I'm not.
Your wife sounds horrid.
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I was talking about the social climate, not my wife. She's perfect.
poor men
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Poor women.
 
No offence, but I stopped reading at that point. You're a broken record. You don't know me. I don't know why you're so confident that you know enough about me to insist on this guilt nonsense. What should I be guilty about? I live by other people's rules. If I decided what was socially acceptable and what wasn't, everybody would be able to walk around naked if they wanted to. I don't have hang ups. I do have a high sex drive. It's not helpful to keep telling me I'm embarrassed when I'm telling you I'm not.
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lol - you really seem to have a chip on your shoulder.


that was a reasonable and thoughtful post, which you've defensively stated you're refusing to read - but again i think it highlights
the persecution complex
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when you enter an online community with such negativity and over-sensitivity, it tends to affect how people engage with you. just fyi, y'know...
 
spacejunk said:
funny how it always comes back to the persecution complex. poor men :D
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Men. What men need to realise is that it's far worse to go to effort to dazzle and attract only to have absolutely no clear noticing of said assets.

Not all women are troubled by wolf whistles or sideways boob eyeball, in fact I think it was this guys awkwardness and assumed guilt of gawk that was the problem.


It's best to just avoid people and play on your phone really.


You know some females, do you feel a bit weird and not know where to look or are you ok with the female noticing you look at her cleavage?

I hope you look with confidence yet somehow get away with it.


Can men please just notice our tits or at least pretend we are all hot thanks!
 
w01fg4ng said:
Bro the title of your thread is about getting caught.

If it wasn't your wife who caught you, who was it?
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The chick who came over with her tits hanging out caught him looking and got offended.



I used to do my housework naked then shower after, my ex hubby blabbed to his mates so after they knew, they would randomly drop by and race inside.


Bit rough innit?
 
lol - you really seem to have a chip on your shoulder.


that was a reasonable and thoughtful post, which you've defensively stated you're refusing to read - but again i think it highlights
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I don't have time to read anything. That was his third post telling me that I'm guilty and embarrassed. He's not listening to me. I don't have to read it. Whatever dude. I really don't care what you think.
when you enter an online community with such negativity and over-sensitivity, it tends to affect how people engage with you. just fyi, y'know...
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Thanks for the advice.
 
On the contrary, I don't mind saying I have read everything you've said so far. I like to think I've also presented fairly solid reasoning behind my own assertions, but forgive me for thinking I was talking to an adult. ;)

Let me try one last time with a shorter post that hopefully fits your attention span.

Did you start this thread with the intention of actually starting a discussion about your feelings here, or just to complain?

If it was the latter then, good luck to you, but if it was the former I'd like to give you some free life advice and suggest you be open to ideas that you don't immediately like, and have a better reason for disagreeing with something than just because it makes you angry.
 
^I'm not trying to offend you, but I don't want to read your comments in this thread.

hopefully fits your attention span
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This is where you lost me this time, for some - God unknown - reason.

Don't you have something better to do?
 
zephyr said:
You know some females, do you feel a bit weird and not know where to look or are you ok with the female noticing you look at her cleavage?
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i have the self control not to leer at the women i know, so it's never been an issue for me.

which is not a judgement on people that don't, but i've never been uncomfortable with interactions with attractive people - i have heaps of friends who are models and stuff, and just generally i hang out with lots of people that look good.

so for whatever reason i don't have any hangups about whether or not i'm looking at them, or whether i've been 'caught' looking at them, or what anyone else might think about it.

to me being 'caught' implies a social transgression, and i dunno - i've never had this problem because i talk to attractive women (who i have no sexual interest in) every day, and i've not ever had any issue with my eyes making me - or anyone else - uncomfortable.

i know the latter, because if i did have wandering eyes, or people thought i did, i know the people around me would point it out, because my friends aren't shy about calling out creepiness.

which is a good thing. :)
no guilt about getting 'caught' committing some eyeball taboo or whatever.

if i catch someone checking me out i don't care too much about it (such is my male privilege) unless they're being lecherous - in which case i either tell them to take a hike, or i quietly give them the slip (depending on who it is, where i am etc etc).

like, if it's friend's wife, i politely excuse myself and try to avoid ever having to be alone with them.
 
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Honestly, the problem in all this to me is how women are held to a completely different standard than men. Women get judged everyday based on how they dress. You say her tits were basically hanging out. Really? How much of this is hyperbole? Even IF she decided to dress a little provocatively/sexy that day, does that give men complete immunity to stare repeatedly even after she displays signs of being uncomfortable? I don't think you were wrong initially, being stoned and responding to a perfectly natural stimulus. But being a grown man and choosing not to correct your behavior...continuing to do it. I think she has a better case for being annoyed than you.
 
w01fg4ng said:
So basically acquaintances are running his life. Why?
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This is typical female behaviour buddy.

You men cant possibly get anything right .


It's a mistake to even try to give a reaction or not based on what you think she wants as if you go down that rabbit hole then she's done her job by doing your head in.

Just keep shit simple m8

Or have ugly friends


Notice the tits.

Comment on said tits.

She will then react accordingly.

You then either get a black eye or get laid.

Simple.
 
I found spacejunk sexually attractive but I was way out of his league iirc sorry bud but you're too short to mind my gap.



I'm smashed better get on the plane fuck
 
I don't get this male persecution complex. You did nothing wrong ANT. Women show off their tits cause they want men to see them.

It's only natural that they get shy when they realize just how exposed they are. I recall once in college my wife's roomy was getting ready for a night out, clearly to go get laid by a stranger, which I always hated, for various reasons, my liking her a lot and being judgmental of looseness being the main one though. She had on a crop top and my then girlfriend was in the other room. I looked her up and down with that, "Damn girl," look and said "You have a cute belly." And boom, she became wide eyed, ran back to her room, and came out dressed significantly more modest. I don't think she thought I was being a total creep, I think she simply realized she was more exposed than she wanted to be. Or perhaps she thought her belly was fat. I think bellies are cute but my wife gets upset if I tell her I like hers.

Women are strange creatures. Making sense is the last thing they'll ever do.


I try not to go to raves these days because unless I'm zonked on drugs I stand at the back and watch all the almost naked women. Not sure why they'd be dressed like that unless they wanted men like me to leer though. I mean obviously it's a tactic to attract men, not have them leer. But what are they expecting?
 
Not sure why they'd be dressed like that unless they wanted men like me to leer though.
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maybe because they want to? it's a pretty massive assumption to think women choose their clothes to make men leer.
seems like a really simplistic way of looking at it, to me.
 
spacejunk said:
maybe because they want to? it's a pretty massive assumption to think women choose their clothes to make men leer.
seems like a really simplistic way of looking at it, to me.
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Nature is simplicity. I don't think it's an unfair assumption in the slightest. Because they want to? Wtf kinda cop out is that? I don't put on my tight fitting jeans and my nicest polo because I wana stare at myself in the mirror, I put them on to turn on my wife or attract the gaze of other women.

I'm not implying it justifies rape or anything like that (certainly not). But seriously, what reason has anyone to dress up like that except to attract the attention of others? Sure, maybe they might not want to be leered at, but what kind of outcome does anyone expect when they dress scantily?

What reason does a gym bro have to wear a wife beater out and about, other than to get you to look at his muscles?

I love you spacejunk, but you're an awfully 'correct' person sometimes, and I have to wonder if you truly believe what you say on BL or if it's some sort of ignorance of reality.
 
I love you spacejunk, but you're an awfully 'correct' person sometimes, and I have to wonder if you truly believe what you say on BL or if it's some sort of ignorance of reality.
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um...wow 8)

just because i disagree with you, doesn't mean i'm "ignorant of reality".

"Nature is simplicity" you say - but do you really know what motivates women (or whoever) to do what they do? maybe you think you do, and assume it's simple to you, but it's a great deal more complex to a lot of people.

i mean, i like to dress up, and i do so for a lot of reasons. clothes and style can be interesting, they can be fun - and i sincerely disagree with the idea that sex is the only reason for it.

i don't dress nice to be looked at as sexually desirable - there are a lot of reasons why people dress and present the way they do - from comfort to fashion to a range of complex social reasons.

and - well, i'm not a woman and will not speak on behalf of women, but i suspect those countless social cues - as well as things like self-esteem - inform their choices of what to wear and how to present themselves.

you might not see it in a complex way but that doesn't mean there aren't a lot of complex factors at play.

i don't really appreciate the patronising tone - i'm not a fucking moron.
 
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