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October Getting/Staying Clean/Sober thread v. To All the Ghouls I've Loved Before

Best wishes to all of you on this crazy journey. To the relapsers out there, I feel your pain. I've been in&out of recovery (mostly out) for 30+ years. If we survive, we can always try again. And again. And again...
Sadly, some of us don't make it back. Try to stick it out. It really does get better with time.

Hope you all are well and reasonably happy.

Peace&Love,
jasper

​"I'm here today because I refused to be unhappy. I took a chance." -- Wanda Sykes
 
​"It's easier to rip somebody to shreds while you're making them laugh." -- Wanda Sykes
 
Today is my first day in 15 years that I'm totally off opiates. Meaning that I'm about to go thru absolute hellish WD's.
I've been on about 200mcg of fent patches(buccaly) a day along with ~ 128mg's hydromorphone IV taken over 3 injections a day(these meds are prescribed to me bc of major damage to my spine). Also, the past year i've been supplementing those meds with large amounts of IV black tar heroin and extra fentanyl patches. So I'm expecting a very hard WD experience.
I haven't posted much on BL in many years but I'm glad I came back. I need the support of this community as im too ashamed to come clean w/ my family/friends.
I just turned 30 today, which is(what I believe) the reason i finally decided to get clean.

I guess my post is just more of a statement than a search for answers. I wasn't sure how to re-introduce myself to BL.

Anyway, that's all. Thanks for reading.

-jB-
 
Jeezus that sounds like it will be rough. You sure you don't wanna taper or use subs?

At any rate, good luck and best wishes to you.

Peace&Love,
jasper

​"All of the truly important battles are waged within the self." -- Sheldon Kopp
 
Welcome back jamesBrown. Glad you made the decision to get clean and best of luck on getting through the withdrawal, I can only imagine how horrendous that level of withdrawal must be.
 
Unfortunately my situation is VERY complicated... which makes tapering/getting on subs(which i've done before and gotten clean) almost impossible.
In order to get on subs...(long story short).... my family and my pain dr would find out... which would result in my life being flipped upside down. I would probably get kicked out of my pain clinic and my family would be hugely disappointed ... again. I can't have that.

I actually do have a few sub pills from about 10 years ago when I was on subs for a couple months... ...but most of them have turned into powder bc they break apart easy. And I have no idea how much potency they have lost while sitting around for the past decade.

My main concern is taking my first dose. I simply can't handle the pain/WD that I need to go thru in order to prevent PW's. My spinal pain is INTENSE 24/7....so i can barely last 8 hours without taking an opiate.

Given the MASSIVE tolerance I have and the extremely large amount of opioids i've been taking for years, the WD's are beyond intense.

Although I was hoping I could take some sub earlier than the 24 hr mark since I take short acting meds. I take my fent buccaly so I think/hope I might get away with taking the sub after like 12 hrs. Although I have an extremely difficult time waiting even that long. I start to feel SO HORRIBLE after only 6 hours or so. Im just desperate and confused and I simply don't know what to do.

I was supposed to start my WD's yesterday but I gave in after only 8 hours bc I couldn't take the pain. I IV'd a shot that came from water soaked with cottons and leftover powder from my previous dilaudid IV's.

Im ashamed of my weakness. Im ashamed of my lack of willpower. But mostly im scared. I can't bring myself to come clean with the people who love me.
That's why I'm hoping that the awesome people here on BL could be my support system...to some extent at least.

I just don't know what to do. I'm lost and I want my life back.

-jB-
 
jamesbrown, have you researched the Bernese method of sub induction at all? It's an alternative to waiting the 12+ hours for sub induction and works.
 
jamesbrown, have you researched the Bernese method of sub induction at all? It's an alternative to waiting the 12+ hours for sub induction and works.

No I've never heard of that. Should I google it or search for it here on BL?
One issue I have is I do my best to only take meds that I'm already prescribed bc I get drug tested. Lab testing GC/MS(i think? ).... where my docs can see if I have taken heroin(or whatever drug) a LONG time after I took the drug.
I don't know if the method you're talking about includes taking drugs that could be detected by a lab drug test but if it does I don't know if it would work.
 
Oh sry... my mind is all over the place right now and I'm extremely depressed.
I see now that given what you said...I would prob only need suboxone using this method you mentioned.

FYI.....I do(luckily) have klonopin and literally thousands of 600mg gabapentin pills. Also a few hundred temazepam. Im prescribed these meds so I can use them to help me get clean.
 
Hi please tell me about the bernese method, have you tried?I stopped my sub 10 days ago and I am doing H every day and I am scared and thinking about trying the bernese method but I need more information about. Please if you have tried get back to me
 
Hi please tell me about the bernese method, have you tried?I stopped my sub 10 days ago and I am doing H every day and I am scared and thinking about trying the bernese method but I need more information about. Please if you have tried get back to me

I just did some research on the bernese method. It turns out that I actually already know about that method I just never had heard it called that.

I believe(please correct me if I'm wrong) that it basically is a process of taking micro doses of sub while you're still taking your DOC(heroin/oxy/etc) ...and you slowly take less and less of your DOC while continuing to take small doses of sub.
It's meant to be a way of getting you onto suboxone without having to go thru the ~ 24-48 hours of WD that most people have to deal with before taking their first dose of sub.
Although I think that you're supposed to lower the amount of heroin(or whatever opioid) you're taking as much as possible b4 starting this process. The less opioids you're taking the better/easier it works.

If I am mistaken about something or if I left something out please speak up. The more information people have the better.
Good luck want2befree1967.... stay strong and don't hesitate to seek help/support here on BL. You're welcome to PM me(once you're no longer a greenlighter) if you want to talk. I've dealt with addiction to opioids half of my life and am currently in the process of trying to get clean again....so, like MANY of the members here, I have tons of personal experience going thru what you're going thru right now.

-jB-
 
You are absolutelly correct in the way you explained the process, the problem is I have so much fair from the induction and to restart that I have being thinking about having another plan. I startet 6 months ago Subuxone here in Spain ( I am from Spain and live her). I planed to take vacation on Sub 11 days ago. During this days I said to my sef every day "this is the last one" :) .... tomorrow I go back. Tomorrow tomorrow, we all know this, this is international. I decided to enjoy my self and treat me with heroin lika a imbecil and put my self as dead line 1 week. Last night, like the night before and also that night before I was working out a plan to go back on Sub on the less painless way possible. I investigated the Bernese method, because i was so scared about induction again .... I am also scared about the bernese method because i never tried before. Now my mind has being playing games and this eary morning I came up whit the briliant idea of buying some Methadone, which I already have, also more H to spend the rest of the day to think better ( that?s the excuse again).

Please help!

This is my plan. I have stopped subuxone exactrly 11 days ago and I was on just 2 mg. I started whit 6 mg and I reduced on my own during this time because I thought I had a lot of side effects, sleeping arms and legs, swetting arms and legs etc. From wwhat I have read in the USA you take a lot of SUB, maybe down to the quality of drugs of your choice or tothe way work your doctors. Now I am thinking to take for some days Methadon and (5 days max) and stop all: Suboxone and Methadon after those days and try and continuy whit my life. If I cant coup whit I thoufht I could get back on Subuxone after the Methadon is out of my sistem. My consumption of Heroin (Snortet has being of 0.5 gr a day +/-)

It would be great to hear back from you about my plan or maybe someone creative options or another new plan which could be better.
How long could I take methadone whit no major problems to not get hoocked, any experience WELCOME!! because dispite of what i wrote belive me or not IWANT2BEFREE d! or maybe not I guess I have a big mess and a lot of fair.
greetings Silvia
 
So let me try to get this straight, because then maybe I can actually start getting somewhere in my recovery. Let's say hypothetically that I took my last bit of heroin at night before sleep, say around midnight. If I wait until 1 or 2pm the following day, I can take my first Sub dose (small, like 1mg) and then let the Sub do its job for a few hours. If I feel no relief, take another 1mg dose? Or can I take a small bit of heroin? My main question is how long after that first Sub dose can I safely take the dope??? And then I guess the next il(logical) question is-how soon to take Sub again?!

thank you and I apologize for my idiocy in this
 
if you're on such a huge dose you want might to consider a methadone taper instead, you can go to the clinic and keep it a secret that way if $ isn't an issue from what I've put together

those are huge dosages; i'm sure larger than what I did to myself and I can only imagine how terrible it's going to feel, I'm sorry I don't have anything more helpful to add jb. Take care!
 
Hey everyone! Sorry I've been such a stranger. Just wanted to let you all know that I'm still hangin' in here. I have good days and bad days, drug-related and otherwise. When everything in my life is fairly stable, I have no problem staying clean and sober. But when nothing seems to be going right, I run right back to whatever crutch I can get my hands on.

It's probably a good thing that I'm broke right now, because I couldn't afford anything "good" (BAD) even if I wanted to. It's pretty much a couple beers and some Benadryl to help me sleep at night. Still, I need to get back into the sober mindset so that I don't feel compelled to self-medicate when things aren't going well.

You are always in my thoughts and prayers.

Peace, Love and Faith,
Dreamflyer
 
Hey Dreamflyer!!! Good Lord is it good to see you here!! I miss you dear friend.

I'm still struggling too DF. I'm on Subutex. My good days far exceed my bad ones - using wise anyway.

I still have cravings - I have them no matter what I'm on. It's more a matter of getting busy. I'm working on it.

It's so great to see you here. I really miss everyone. Be well DF. <3<3b
 
Whats up everyone?.... Nice to see youre still around 10years. I just got out of a 60 day rehab so I have 60 some odd days clean. I havent even had a cigarette or caffeine. I was able to work out and eat well and Im proud to say my new addiction is the gym. I am shredded..lol... and I have never felt better but unfortunately I found out for sure that I have hep C. Im trying to get on vivatrol but after I got the first shot my liver enzymes went way up. They were still climbing after two more subsequent tests. This is very disturbing to me because they wouldnt give me the 2nd shot. I have to go back for more test to see if I can get it. I got a prescription for Naltrexone but at this point I don't think I even want to mess with it if it is going to affect my liver. I also got the the number and address of a agency that will help me get free treatment to get rid of the hep.

I have to move forward this time and face life without even entertaining drug use as an option. Things got real this time. This last year was crazy and I have never been so sure I will die if I use again. I have gained the support of my whole family and I cant bare the thought of messing up and losing those relationships. This is it... Im done... Whatever it takes. I have really gotten into buddhism and medition. I am going to use every tool availabe because thats how bad I want it. NA, AA, already in IOP, mindfulness sessions, psych evaluations, spiritual retreates, prayer, living life to the fullest.... Anything to beat this thing once and for all.

I did get some good news. My lawyer won the appeal with the DMV and it looks like they might drop the charge all together because of holes in their case. I will never lose my liscence or have to get that expensive insurance. I cant believe my luck. I could have killed someone blacked out on the highway. After that, my crazy night with my roomates trying to set me up in a control buy and planting drugs on me, the crash on the highway at 70mph when I was trying to kill myself and a brush with the Columbian federales this last time in Medellin, I know God has his hand on my life. God, the Universe, destiny, life energy, whatever you call it.... It is guiding me and intricately involved in insuring my well being. Time to stop tempting fate. The writting is on the wall. Next time I don't think I will be so lucky. I have a purpose to fullfill and I can never do that if I am using. Im choosing LIFE!!

Love you guys... Somni
 
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So let me try to get this straight, because then maybe I can actually start getting somewhere in my recovery. Let's say hypothetically that I took my last bit of heroin at night before sleep, say around midnight. If I wait until 1 or 2pm the following day, I can take my first Sub dose (small, like 1mg) and then let the Sub do its job for a few hours. If I feel no relief, take another 1mg dose? Or can I take a small bit of heroin? My main question is how long after that first Sub dose can I safely take the dope??? And then I guess the next il(logical) question is-how soon to take Sub again?!

thank you and I apologize for my idiocy in this

1mg of sub isn't going to do any job. It prob wont put you into precipitated withdrawals at such a small amount, but it won't give you much relief if you have any sort of an opiate tolerance. If you don't go into precipitated withdrawal, take another 1mg. You can take dope whenever you want, 2 min after that first sub or 2 hours..but I, personally, would wait to see what the subs do first. You don't need to be scared as long as you have a full agonist on you. Even if you go into the dreaded PWD, a full agonist will take you out of it within SECONDS. Just make sure you have that full agonist or you will find yourself driving very very sick to your dope dealers house (and I mean like projectile vomiting out the car window the whole time sick). I took 24 mg of subs stupidly once only 10 hours after a week long heroin binge off of subs and I still was able to pull myself out with just a couple of lines of dope. The subs will keep the full agonist from getting you truly high, but you will feel relief. I would dose more sub the next day, but a slightly larger amount. You do not have the danger of going into precipitated withdrawal if you already have subs in you, which you will from the 1-2mg done before..you might not feel great until you take some of your full agonist, but you won't go into horrible painful wds.

Ideally it should go sorta like this:

Day 1: Dose 1mg subs in the am, do, say, a 1/2 gram of dope throughout day (I don't know your tolerance though, this is based on my own tolerance when I did this), add another 1mg if the first 1mg doesn't do anything (even if that "anything" is make you sick).
Day 2: Dose 2mg subs in the am, do a 0.4 sized bag throughout day
Day 3: Dose 4mg subs in the am, do a 0.3 sized bag throughout day
Day 4: Dose 8mg subs in the am, do a 1/4 (0.2) gram bag throughout day
Day 5: Dose 16mg subs in the am, do 0.1 gram sized bag throughout day
Day 6: Dose 16mg subs in the am, do NO DOPE. At this point your body will be used to the subs (and will have tapered from the full agonist some as well), and the subs should be blocking most of that dope you're doing anyways. Honestly, you might start feeling just fine without dope by day 5.

Where I always fucked up was not being able to put down the dope in the end. I'd tell myself I needed just one more day on it. This method is as painless as you can get, but it requires serious determination.
 
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