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MDMA Magic - The Reason!

NewTopic

Bluelighter
Joined
Sep 8, 2018
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61
I wanted to share some discussion with you all around the 'magic' that MDMA brings and what I believe might be the cause.

The other night I was thinking about all the things MDMA produces to get that effect, lots of Serotonin, Dopamine and something called Oxytocin.
At first I was like what the hell is Oxytocin and to my surprise it's the chemical that makes you love in a basic sense.

Example:
Serotonin = Happy
Dopamine = Feel Good
Oxytocin = Love


So, this got me thinking a bit because I no longer have that 'magic' feeling and I've been trying to explain to people what it feels like and honestly it's a loss of love and empathy. I no longer get that urge to hug everyone, the love for everything around me and even in normal life I don't get the 'love' feeling anymore, I don't feel that heart felt feeling .. it's just gone and I know that I used to feel it.

This Oxytocin is even produced when a child is born so that it has a deep connection with it's mother and the same apply s all through life bonding with each other and loving as well.

So my theory is that we aren't missing the Serotonin like everyone thinks, saying we don't have enough ... that we have damaged the receptors and look this might contribute to the feeling as well but I've always thought it was something else. What if it's lack of Oxytocin being released, maybe it's gone forever or takes years to recover or it's damaged from over use of MDMA.

It just makes sense, infact Oxytocin has been linked to Empathy and after researching the substance it sounds exactly what's missing from my MDMA rolls.

What do you think ?
 
I think there was a thread with a guy reporting on his experiences with repeated doses of oxytocin... search engine should find it. .. i couldnt see it on a quick search otherwise i would post link
 
Oxytocin is not likely to be the cause for the MDMA 'magic' or any of the loved up feelings for that matter. They tested for this. I have made a summary of this research here. Also, serotonin = happiness is untrue or at the very least a gross oversimplification, it is much much more complicated than that. If it were that easy, SSRIs would have a huge success rate, while at the moment they are only effective on a minority of people. Elevating serotonin does not equal greater happiness, as the research has shown multiple times, though it probably does play a part in the entirety of a persons mindset
 
For me personally I feel like long-term amphetamine abuse over years and years, was majorly responsible for why I did not really experienced any magic with MDMA at all if any was very mild. Who knows maybe I am wrong and I don't know what I'm talking about but it sure as hell feels like it
 
Oxytocin is not likely to be the cause for the MDMA 'magic' or any of the loved up feelings for that matter. They tested for this. I have made a summary of this research here. Also, serotonin = happiness is untrue or at the very least a gross oversimplification, it is much much more complicated than that. If it were that easy, SSRIs would have a huge success rate, while at the moment they are only effective on a minority of people. Elevating serotonin does not equal greater happiness, as the research has shown multiple times, though it probably does play a part in the entirety of a persons mindset

While I agree with the serotonin thing, since i know it does do alot more then just that and most of it is found in the gut surprisingly. But from what I've understood you can't use the nasal sprays of Oxytocin to get the same effect it does in the body, since it's coming from the same gland in the brain that produces DMT I believe ?

But if your saying that neither of these things is the 'magic' factor in MDMA.
Then the real question would be, what is ?
 
For me personally I feel like long-term amphetamine abuse over years and years, was majorly responsible for why I did not really experienced any magic with MDMA at all if any was very mild. Who knows maybe I am wrong and I don't know what I'm talking about but it sure as hell feels like it

I've always wanted to see what it was like with MDMA and amphetamine together, because of the rush factors, I never mix drugs though just to reduce the risk.
I mean after all MDMA does have Amphetamine in the name.


You should try this https://www.reddit.com/r/MDMA/comments/8yl2fp/nacetyl_cysteine_nac_and_its_probable_mdma_loss/
I've started taking NAC now just to see how it effects my last ever roll in about 6 weeks.
If this stuff does indeed work i'll be sure to let everyone know here, i've been also taking doses of vitamin c + d and I may also have some st johns wort although i'm not sure about this one.
 
While I agree with the serotonin thing, since i know it does do alot more then just that and most of it is found in the gut surprisingly. But from what I've understood you can't use the nasal sprays of Oxytocin to get the same effect it does in the body, since it's coming from the same gland in the brain that produces DMT I believe ?

But if your saying that neither of these things is the 'magic' factor in MDMA.
Then the real question would be, what is ?

The brain producing DMT is likely false and I?ve never seen any legitimate medical research to back it up. You can get injectible oxytocin though, it?s nothing like what MDMA gives
 
I've always wanted to see what it was like with MDMA and amphetamine together, because of the rush factors, I never mix drugs though just to reduce the risk.
I mean after all MDMA does have Amphetamine in the name.


You should try this https://www.reddit.com/r/MDMA/comments/8yl2fp/nacetyl_cysteine_nac_and_its_probable_mdma_loss/
I've started taking NAC now just to see how it effects my last ever roll in about 6 weeks.
If this stuff does indeed work i'll be sure to let everyone know here, i've been also taking doses of vitamin c + d and I may also have some st johns wort although i'm not sure about this one.

That interesting. I use NAC heavily for a variety of things but I didn?t notice it impacting my last roll since starting it
 
The magic is a cumulative effect from serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine and oxytocin.

I do believe the empathy is partially mediated by oxytocin based on my research but not fully, hence the back n forth on people's idea whether it does or not. I've done a ton of research on oxytocin in the past and with the studies I've read (beyond the mdma/oxytocin connection) I came to a firm understanding of not only why I take to MDMA like a fly to shit but also a better understanding of relationships within my family and much more.

After checking that link I'd argue that study was flawed with the rather low dosage used. 75mg doesn't tell us much, 120mg would have me trusting it much more. As you said BB, other studies have found a correlation so I am currently still a believer on oxytocin having a role until I see more and better research.

Also the study suggests 5-ht2a and vasopressin 1a as possible causes. I can 100% say it ain't 5-ht2a, I'd say 5-ht1a before 2a. I've noticed psychedelics with higher affinity for 5-ht1a tend to be more empathetic then psychedelics with less or no affinity. And from my limited pharmacology knowledge 1a has an indirect effect on oxytocin. It seems whenever empathy is involved we hear of this hormone.

To the OP, I appreciate this thread as I too have thought of this possibility. It also scares me the lack of research regarding mdma and oxytocin and I worry I might be doing damage to a hormone system we are just beginning to understand relatively.

I'd like to see more talk on this.

-GC
 
The brain producing DMT is likely false and I?ve never seen any legitimate medical research to back it up. You can get injectible oxytocin though, it?s nothing like what MDMA gives

Not sure about how much research is out there, but I think it's widely believed that this is correct and on a side note after taking DMT I can relate back to experiences I've had.

You should look into Astral Projection, might sound a bit far fetched but if you actually try to do it yourself you get the same effects as DMT, atleast the onset part were your heart race increases and energy flowing through your body. I was unable to leave my body however (too scared) because when laying in bed trying to astral project this feel is super intense just like DMT.

My theory is that ghosts exist, astral projection exists and DMT is the gateway between this.
For instance, we exist in two places at once, one on the spiritual domain and then a physical world and Astral Projection simply puts you in the spiritual one. When you die, your physical body dies and you then exist in the spiritual (ghost) domain. Thus explaining ghosts, dmt and the afterlife. Yes it sounds crazy but, we were once crazy to think we would ever go to the moon too.
 
The magic is a cumulative effect from serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine and oxytocin.

I do believe the empathy is partially mediated by oxytocin based on my research but not fully, hence the back n forth on people's idea whether it does or not. I've done a ton of research on oxytocin in the past and with the studies I've read (beyond the mdma/oxytocin connection) I came to a firm understanding of not only why I take to MDMA like a fly to shit but also a better understanding of relationships within my family and much more.

After checking that link I'd argue that study was flawed with the rather low dosage used. 75mg doesn't tell us much, 120mg would have me trusting it much more. As you said BB, other studies have found a correlation so I am currently still a believer on oxytocin having a role until I see more and better research.

Also the study suggests 5-ht2a and vasopressin 1a as possible causes. I can 100% say it ain't 5-ht2a, I'd say 5-ht1a before 2a. I've noticed psychedelics with higher affinity for 5-ht1a tend to be more empathetic then psychedelics with less or no affinity. And from my limited pharmacology knowledge 1a has an indirect effect on oxytocin. It seems whenever empathy is involved we hear of this hormone.

To the OP, I appreciate this thread as I too have thought of this possibility. It also scares me the lack of research regarding mdma and oxytocin and I worry I might be doing damage to a hormone system we are just beginning to understand relatively.

I'd like to see more talk on this.

-GC

It's an interesting subject and because it hasn't been studied much there isn't a lot of information available.
More then likely it is a combination of everything bringing you the magical feeling, but after reading various things from Oxytocin it's really interesting how this plays a part in human connection just in general, if larger amounts were released on MDMA this would explain why you feel very connected to everyone, lovey dovey and what not.

I honestly really struggle to feel this now, I'd struggle to cry to be honest which is a little concerning.
 
Not sure about how much research is out there, but I think it's widely believed that this is correct and on a side note after taking DMT I can relate back to experiences I've had.

You should look into Astral Projection, might sound a bit far fetched but if you actually try to do it yourself you get the same effects as DMT, atleast the onset part were your heart race increases and energy flowing through your body. I was unable to leave my body however (too scared) because when laying in bed trying to astral project this feel is super intense just like DMT.

My theory is that ghosts exist, astral projection exists and DMT is the gateway between this.
For instance, we exist in two places at once, one on the spiritual domain and then a physical world and Astral Projection simply puts you in the spiritual one. When you die, your physical body dies and you then exist in the spiritual (ghost) domain. Thus explaining ghosts, dmt and the afterlife. Yes it sounds crazy but, we were once crazy to think we would ever go to the moon too.

Can you provide any legitimate medical literature that supports DMT being produced in the brain? Honestly curious because I?ve tried to find anything supporting that and I haven?t been able to.
 
we were once crazy to think we would ever go to the moon too.

Totally digging your theory but the go to the moon thing I having doubts there. Watched a documentary, could have been a good mocumentary though, in which NASA people explain why we can't go through the planets exo's and thermosphere. Another one explaining the technology to get to the moon got lost somehow. What?

The whole lunar lander and shit gets debunked big time. I can share the video if any of you are willing to examine it. Just to let you know NewTopic.
 
We've yet to find DMT in human brains although I don't think many have tried to look to be fair. They have found DMT in the rat pineal gland and this was after people said we wouldn't...

From the limited research so far it's my opinion/theory that we will eventually find DMT in the human brain as well. My guess is that this substance is only produced on an as needed basis and likely won't be found in the brain of a dead human. An alive human? Probably, would be my take on it.

-GC
 
While I agree with the serotonin thing, since i know it does do alot more then just that and most of it is found in the gut surprisingly. But from what I've understood you can't use the nasal sprays of Oxytocin to get the same effect it does in the body, since it's coming from the same gland in the brain that produces DMT I believe ?

But if your saying that neither of these things is the 'magic' factor in MDMA.
Then the real question would be, what is ?
My guess would be a complex whole of primary and downstream effects. I do think oxytocin probably plays a part but maybe not the part we think it does. Or in short, I have no idea, only theories =D
The magic is a cumulative effect from serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine and oxytocin.

I do believe the empathy is partially mediated by oxytocin based on my research but not fully, hence the back n forth on people's idea whether it does or not. I've done a ton of research on oxytocin in the past and with the studies I've read (beyond the mdma/oxytocin connection) I came to a firm understanding of not only why I take to MDMA like a fly to shit but also a better understanding of relationships within my family and much more.

After checking that link I'd argue that study was flawed with the rather low dosage used. 75mg doesn't tell us much, 120mg would have me trusting it much more. As you said BB, other studies have found a correlation so I am currently still a believer on oxytocin having a role until I see more and better research.

Also the study suggests 5-ht2a and vasopressin 1a as possible causes. I can 100% say it ain't 5-ht2a, I'd say 5-ht1a before 2a. I've noticed psychedelics with higher affinity for 5-ht1a tend to be more empathetic then psychedelics with less or no affinity. And from my limited pharmacology knowledge 1a has an indirect effect on oxytocin. It seems whenever empathy is involved we hear of this hormone.

To the OP, I appreciate this thread as I too have thought of this possibility. It also scares me the lack of research regarding mdma and oxytocin and I worry I might be doing damage to a hormone system we are just beginning to understand relatively.

I'd like to see more talk on this.

-GC
Yes agreed, the dosage was on the low side indeed. However I would expect some effects of the oxytocin nasal spray on the empathogenic effects even at that dose. I think there is more going on. Perhaps as you suggest the empathogenic effects are mediated rather than caused by oxytocin, though even then the nasal spray should have had some effects. I have great hopes for the results of the MAPS trials and research, I really hope that will shed some light on questions such as this one we still have. I agree that I also hope for some new and better research. I do however think that the results of this one can't be ignored, since the methodology was pretty thorough, apart from perhaps the misjudgement of an adequate dose

An added consideration I had was that oxytocin spray crosses the blood/brain barrier reliably, based on research quoted in the study. But I'm wondering if it has the same effect as endocrine oxytocin. I do not know enough about it to really determine this with any certainty, do you by any chance?
 
N-acetylcysteine (NAC) is reported as having beneficial impacts on memory impairment following mdma abuse in various studies.
There are several Reddit pages discussing it.
Some users apparently use NAC to recover the "magic", numerous anecdotal reports citing improvement and rolls "like they used to be".
N-acetylcysteine is widely available and is regarded by the WHO as an essential drug. It is an anti-oxidant.
 
Yo, @NewTopic, have you got any updates on the NAC regimen you started? Has it improved your rolls? The Reddit thread you linked to has lots of reports from people claiming NAC does help recover the magic and even found a post by someone who said he's rolled harder than the first time. Surprised only augustB picked up on it...
 
Psyloq, I am going to be trying the NAC approach. I will update how it goes for me.
 
^^Definitely excited to hear your results. Also get yourself some magnesium l-threonate. I've found that it most definitely decreases tolerance to MDMA. (Magnesium is a light NMDA antagonist, I've also found Ketamine to potentiate mdma when used shortly before an experience, i.e. The night before..)

-GC
 
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