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MDMA Recovery (Stories & Support - 7) [ALL LTC posts go here]

@G_chem
I'm aware that within the past decade chemists have changed the process by which they make mdma and the majority of time to make it cheaper or with more available precursors and production methods. The use of mercury could easily be one of them seeing as it's very cheap. I'm just curious, do you have another theory as to what causes the lasting damage many of us have suffered in regards to mdma production? Isomer ratios, PMK glycidate, anything?
 
I've got a feeling mine was from mda instead of mdma. The pills were tested but the roll was more mongy and trippy like a typical mda experience rather than a clean and high mdma experience. Mda is more neurotoxic so needs less dose to do the damage. Anyone else experience that before their Ltc? Lots of it about recently. I agree the chemistry of production has changed as there is lots of strong shit about but it doesn't feel quite the same as it did 10 years ago. Worth noting I never had a problem with it in the past 10 years using every few months or so with decent breaks between. My insomnia also started a month in.
 
^^^Where are you from Brucey? And when did you get your LTC?

Your a perfect example of what I was talking about too. You had no problems for years until recently, no one ever used to get this condition.

Also you speak of the product that gave it to you as being mongy. This has been a major problem with actual MDMA since the synthesis change around 2010. I'd be willing to bet the product you took was this inadequate/off MDMA people speak of.

@Dany- Which brings me to my next point... As it sounds like you may already know, there was a change from the use of safrole/PMK to the use of PMK glycidate often made from piperanol. This PMK glycidate is made in China and shipped to the Eu typically.

My theory for possible LTC is this, and note we are about to talk technical here. I believe based on some analysis, that the chemists have found a one pot reaction to take the PMK glycidate straight to MDMA without first converting it to PMK. This is evidenced based on the fact that the amination/reduction part of synthesis typically used also changed to one which could theoretically be used as a one pot. (Platinum/Rainey Nickel Catalyst I think?? Mercury use has become less based on the statistics.)

So people may be wondering... Well if the new route uses platinum instead of mercury why is this LTC occurring?

The answer is in the fact that there is no purification taking place on the PMK glycidate before it's getting made into MDMA. The chemists are assuming purity but as we know China is not respected for their purity and ethical standards. I've gotten drugs synthesized in China which had chunks of rubber hosing amongst other impurities, that gives you a tiny idea of the conditions in those labs.

After talking with another BL member, it's obvious that there could very well be some neurotoxic impurities making it through to the end product. I forget them at the moment but I believe when combined with MDMA's own neurotoxicity potential there is a recipe for disaster. These impurities also seem to explain the mongy effect as well.

The fact MDMA is more often sold as weight over pills post 2010, we see the increased desire to leave impurities for the added weight instead of selling the drug per unit/pill.

Again just a theory, one of many... This theory (and the statistics on synthesis changes) do go against the mercury theory but as I said I wouldn't push it fully to the side as there is evidence to prove it as well.

Whatever it is, my money is on some impurity/impurities causing this problem.

-GC
 
I had a psyc suggest the same...but I went with mirtazapine instead since it is supposedly to help sleep.

Any explanation for Paxil specifically vs other AD?
 
@whateverittakes

Did the mirtazapine help? How long did you take it for? Any side effects?

Thanks.
 
I asked this question on another thread but allow me to please ask it again:

Is Paxil good for helping with long term comedown?
 
Definitely helped with the initial WTF did I do to myself anxiety and depression. I?m still taking it. No sides other than perhaps increased appetite and vivid dreams.
 
@whateverittakes

Thanks. Good to know. I'll be starting to take Paxil tonight. Hopefully it'll help.
 
@G_Chem I wonder if skipping the PMK glycidate to pmk step could potentially effect the way the drug works, get metabolized, etc. From what I read in that thread you mentioned, there unfortunately seems to be a lot of difference in opinion on the effects of skipping the step. I think it's also worth noting that though platinum toxicity isn't as mentioned as that of mercury, it's still very possible and would also be treated with a heavy metal detox. I would love to know what impurities in particular we are looking at that are possibly producing the brainless, speedy like effects(I think that's what you mean by mongy)! It's truly vital for our discussions sake
 
@G_Chem I wonder if skipping the PMK glycidate to pmk step could potentially effect the way the drug works, get metabolized, etc. From what I read in that thread you mentioned, there unfortunately seems to be a lot of difference in opinion on the effects of skipping the step. I think it's also worth noting that though platinum toxicity isn't as mentioned as that of mercury, it's still very possible and would also be treated with a heavy metal detox. I would love to know what impurities in particular we are looking at that are possibly producing the brainless, speedy like effects(I think that's what you mean by mongy)! It's truly vital for our discussions sake

is there a definitive test I can ask my doctor for? I read online that urine and blood may both be inadequate? Would love to find a problem that is testable instead of just guessing
 
@G_chem I am from derby, UK. I've had my ltc since December last year. Dany just to confirm what I meant by mongy, that sort of sit in a corner chewing your face off feeling pretty fucked whilst seeing visuals etc, as opposed to being up on your feet dancing with a smile on your face as I always used to associate clean mdma effects as being. I know from personal experience there is a big difference between Mmda and mda which is only really noticeable at bigger doses but I think a lot of the mdma has changed last few years.
 
Isn't there a way to tell if we're damaged? Scans, tests? Isn't there an answer what's damaged?

What the hell is the situation we're in guys? Really pissed.

No, I'm afraid there isn't, likely because none of the symptoms people are reporting are really any different from the many symptoms people with anxiety and depression disorders tend to have.

Whilst it is extremely evident that MDMA has caused a lot of people here some huge life altering medical emergencies regarding their mental health, it still seems clear to me that people are experiencing pretty textbook severe depression/anxiety, with all the myriad of symptoms that commonly come with that. Doctors can very rarely find a physical cause for depression and anxiety (especially considering it is so vastly broad and complex), and thus, they can only analyse symptoms, give a diagnosis, and treat with the few means available; i.e medication (SSRI's, benzos, beta blockers), or therapy (CBT & counselling).

I personally think that the term LTC is a misnomer. IMO it's not an extended comedown, it's an anxiety/depression disorder which has been triggered. It just feels like a comedown because MDMA comedowns are characterised by depression and anxiety. I think it's been well known for a long, long time amongst ecstasy users that repeated empathogen abuse can lead to months of cloudy brain fog and mental impairments, and that is essentially what is going on here. It's just that some people seem to get it worse, and a big chunk of anxiety and depression to boot.

I'm in no way demeaning the 'LTC', btw, I just think there are some misconceptions which really muddy the waters.

And I'm not just somebody from the outside looking in, who doesn't understand. Because actually, something happened to me back in 2012, which ticks all the boxes for a severe LTC, and I would be interested to discuss it with you guys.

Peace and love people, & I wish you all the best with your recoveries. You will improve, even if it doesn't seem that way right now.
 
Just a suggestion, but I think the acronym 'LTC' would be better defined as 'Long Term Complications', as this phenomenon is clearly more than just a comedown.
 
No, I'm afraid there isn't, likely because none of the symptoms people are reporting are really any different from the many symptoms people with anxiety and depression disorders tend to have.

Whilst it is extremely evident that MDMA has caused a lot of people here some huge life altering medical emergencies regarding their mental health, it still seems clear to me that people are experiencing pretty textbook severe depression/anxiety, with all the myriad of symptoms that commonly come with that. Doctors can very rarely find a physical cause for depression and anxiety (especially considering it is so vastly broad and complex), and thus, they can only analyse symptoms, give a diagnosis, and treat with the few means available; i.e medication (SSRI's, benzos, beta blockers), or therapy (CBT & counselling).

I personally think that the term LTC is a misnomer. IMO it's not an extended comedown, it's an anxiety/depression disorder which has been triggered. It just feels like a comedown because MDMA comedowns are characterised by depression and anxiety. I think it's been well known for a long, long time amongst ecstasy users that repeated empathogen abuse can lead to months of cloudy brain fog and mental impairments, and that is essentially what is going on here. It's just that some people seem to get it worse, and a big chunk of anxiety and depression to boot.

I'm in no way demeaning the 'LTC', btw, I just think there are some misconceptions which really muddy the waters.

And I'm not just somebody from the outside looking in, who doesn't understand. Because actually, something happened to me back in 2012, which ticks all the boxes for a severe LTC, and I would be interested to discuss it with you guys.

Peace and love people, & I wish you all the best with your recoveries. You will improve, even if it doesn't seem that way right now.

I've started to believe that there's higher chance of my cognition decline being due to the depression, obsession and anxiety. Been reading few articles claiming that depresson is neurotoxic and affecting the hippocampus just like MDMA does, making me to believe there's some strong corelation.

Interestingly enough I've found myself cognitively fit more than few times now, outperforming the majority of people in my field, the confidence boost from such a thing is incredible and actually pushing me even further. So yeah, even if I caused myself some long-term damage I feel positive that I can reshape, rewire and regrow my brain if I have the courage to take on it.

There's a big chance that if I follow healthy mindset and lifestyle, should be sufficient enough to make me competitive with other people even if there's some permanent changes in my brain. Like success and performance are just goals that you can reach in multiple ways, yeah your intelligence is not what it used to be, but there's SO much you can achieve by patience hard work and every now and then observation of your weakest points and then working on them.

edit//

The biggest change in me pre and after the LTC was that I've lost my confidence, that's what I believe is actually the biggest reason for my depression and anxiety. I felt weak, damaged, hopeless and of course vulnerable. Of course I'll be depressed, but now there's days that I feel more and more like before, f*ck the bad days and carry on.
 
Now that you mention mongy, that did describe what my LTC causing roll was like. Particularly the chewing your own mouth out thats unlike the typical happy jaw clenching I'd normally get. I used around 40 pills over the course of three months with great rolls(thanks to 5-htp), some of those nights ingesting 2-4 250mg pills and almost never having an all that bad comedown. I was definitely getting the real deal from the seller.. now, the batch that caused this I hadn't used before my ltc. I took seven 250mg pills throughout five hours(started out with 3 or 4 in the beginning) and experienced the very unpleasant speedy experience like what I've read the ltc causing roll to be like for some people, I always just thought this had to do with the dosage as I had never started off with more than two. Although it's worth mentioning that I finished the last pill in the batch I had the following night mixed with an addy and that was actually pretty chill and euphoric for day after a roll, and neither day do I recall experiencing visuals(other than some temporary blurred vision during the roll)which I would assume would be highly memorable in a high mda dose. I mention this because it makes it seem unlikely mda would be the culprit here.
 
Now that you mention mongy, that did describe what my LTC causing roll was like. Particularly the chewing your own mouth out thats unlike the typical happy jaw clenching I'd normally get. I used around 40 pills over the course of three months with great rolls(thanks to 5-htp), some of those nights ingesting 2-4 250mg pills and almost never having an all that bad comedown. I was definitely getting the real deal from the seller.. now, the batch that caused this I hadn't used before my ltc. I took seven 250mg pills throughout five hours(started out with 3 or 4 in the beginning) and experienced the very unpleasant speedy experience like what I've read the ltc causing roll to be like for some people, I always just thought this had to do with the dosage as I had never started off with more than two. Although it's worth mentioning that I finished the last pill in the batch I had the following night mixed with an addy and that was actually pretty chill and euphoric for day after a roll, and neither day do I recall experiencing visuals(other than some temporary blurred vision during the roll)which I would assume would be highly memorable in a high mda dose. I mention this because it makes it seem unlikely mda would be the culprit here.

Could it be the mixture of mdma + Addy that gave you Ltc? Had you done that before?
 
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