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MDMA Recovery (Stories & Support - 7) [ALL LTC posts go here]
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Whatever that means for you.
lionheart90
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2018
- Messages
- 249
Look at what I found. This study is basically affirming what I was saying earlier. the LTC is a panic disorder issue that is brought about by MDMA. Agoraphobic tendencies continue after the recreational MDMA use is stopped (and thats where I'm at now. have quit mdma, overcame panic disorder, but still continue to have agoraphobic tendencies).
"The authors describe three patients whose panic disorder began during recreational use of MDMA (Ecstasy) and was subsequently complicated by agoraphobic avoidance that continued autonomously after cessation of the drug. Their panic disorder responded well to serotoninergic antidepressant drugs. Theoretical and practical implications are discussed."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1356491
It even says the panic disorder responded well to SSRI's. Funny thing is we've seen so many fucking people with the LTC who are like "omfg, dont take SSRI!". eugh. thats part of the danger of listening to peers or hearing things through the grapevine I guess.
I think the study was done in 1991, so yeah apparently this issue has been happening for God knows how long.
Hmmn. Ok so what does this mean for LTC sufferers.
Evidence seems to point time and time again to panic disorder being the fundamental issue. A bad MDMA trip due to bad set and setting, or too high a dose, somehow incites a panic attack. Probably due to MDMA releasing adrenaline. From there the panic attack sometimes becomes panic disorder, meaning we experience tons of panic attacks for months, sometimes longer, afterwards. From there, agoraphobic tendencies begin as we associate the fear of a panic attack with anywhere a panic attack has set in. Eventually being afraid of so many things and places we end up staying at home all the time.
MDMA (for us, weed has also been known to cause this disorder/ltc) induces panic attack
panic attack becomes panic disorder
lots of panic attacks leads to a "fear of fear itself" which leads to agoraphobia and agoraphobic tendencies
Eventually panic disorder subsides, agoraphobia remains
It may be because agoraphobia is behavioral, while the panic disorder is biological. This may mean that the agoraphobia will last until the behavioral training is done to eliminate it. I think this means that the people who don't get outside much and dont socialize much, are more likely to be the ones who are like "3 years in, still in the LTC". being anti social and a recluse seems to keep the agoraphobia very active and strong, essentially stopping us from completely healing from the LTC.
so after some period of time, the LTC panic disorder subsides. I'm assuming this is in the 6-10 month range as that is when most people say "i began to feel 99% better, pretty much like my old self again".
the 10 month - 2 year mark stuff, I believe that is the agoraphobic behaviors. I believe that if nothing is done about them, they are very slow to go away. But I also believe that if we tackle them with vigor, they can go away within a month or two, maybe less.
this is all super complex stuff so don't take my musings to be facts, although after over a year experiencing this thing and researching it heavily I feel like my conclusions are very spot on.
So for me, despite feeling pretty good already. I think I will seek out a psychiatrist and find some SSRI or some other kind of medication for my brain. And go to some kind of therapy to help modify my behaviors as it relates to agoraphobia.
btw basic agorphobic therapy is exposure therapy along with some basic CBT thought modifications. In simpler terms, the idea is to just get our asses out the door, and when we think we are freaking out, just use a bit of mindfulness and examine our situation to realize that we actually aren't in any real danger. the only danger is from us freaking out and convincing our self that we're in some crazy danger.
"The authors describe three patients whose panic disorder began during recreational use of MDMA (Ecstasy) and was subsequently complicated by agoraphobic avoidance that continued autonomously after cessation of the drug. Their panic disorder responded well to serotoninergic antidepressant drugs. Theoretical and practical implications are discussed."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1356491
It even says the panic disorder responded well to SSRI's. Funny thing is we've seen so many fucking people with the LTC who are like "omfg, dont take SSRI!". eugh. thats part of the danger of listening to peers or hearing things through the grapevine I guess.
I think the study was done in 1991, so yeah apparently this issue has been happening for God knows how long.
Hmmn. Ok so what does this mean for LTC sufferers.
Evidence seems to point time and time again to panic disorder being the fundamental issue. A bad MDMA trip due to bad set and setting, or too high a dose, somehow incites a panic attack. Probably due to MDMA releasing adrenaline. From there the panic attack sometimes becomes panic disorder, meaning we experience tons of panic attacks for months, sometimes longer, afterwards. From there, agoraphobic tendencies begin as we associate the fear of a panic attack with anywhere a panic attack has set in. Eventually being afraid of so many things and places we end up staying at home all the time.
MDMA (for us, weed has also been known to cause this disorder/ltc) induces panic attack
panic attack becomes panic disorder
lots of panic attacks leads to a "fear of fear itself" which leads to agoraphobia and agoraphobic tendencies
Eventually panic disorder subsides, agoraphobia remains
It may be because agoraphobia is behavioral, while the panic disorder is biological. This may mean that the agoraphobia will last until the behavioral training is done to eliminate it. I think this means that the people who don't get outside much and dont socialize much, are more likely to be the ones who are like "3 years in, still in the LTC". being anti social and a recluse seems to keep the agoraphobia very active and strong, essentially stopping us from completely healing from the LTC.
so after some period of time, the LTC panic disorder subsides. I'm assuming this is in the 6-10 month range as that is when most people say "i began to feel 99% better, pretty much like my old self again".
the 10 month - 2 year mark stuff, I believe that is the agoraphobic behaviors. I believe that if nothing is done about them, they are very slow to go away. But I also believe that if we tackle them with vigor, they can go away within a month or two, maybe less.
this is all super complex stuff so don't take my musings to be facts, although after over a year experiencing this thing and researching it heavily I feel like my conclusions are very spot on.
So for me, despite feeling pretty good already. I think I will seek out a psychiatrist and find some SSRI or some other kind of medication for my brain. And go to some kind of therapy to help modify my behaviors as it relates to agoraphobia.
btw basic agorphobic therapy is exposure therapy along with some basic CBT thought modifications. In simpler terms, the idea is to just get our asses out the door, and when we think we are freaking out, just use a bit of mindfulness and examine our situation to realize that we actually aren't in any real danger. the only danger is from us freaking out and convincing our self that we're in some crazy danger.
Last edited:
foolsgold25
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2010
- Messages
- 52
I?ve been reading this thread for a while but never really commented. I think there?s a lot of truth in the above post & it makes sense to me. I abused MD for many years, taking it every weekend or a couple of times a month from 2007-2010 & then every couple of months from then, I developed social anxiety & found it difficult leaving the house for a number of years. I tried Pregabalin which helped for a while, came off that & started taking 400mg 5htp/l theanine daily for around 2 years, this was the difference between me being able to function in society & without it I would feel terrible. I?m finally free of any supplements or pills & I had a few sessions of hypnotherapy which seemed to have helped, I also got a SAD Lamp which seems to be working, feeling better than I have in years. It?s been a long journey but finally feel pretty happy in myself, still have anxiety but it?s about a 2/3 compared to a 10 these days.
lionheart90
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2018
- Messages
- 249
So you were taking 400 mg of 5-htp? like 2x daily doses of 200mg?
also I heard consistent use of 5-htp is dangerous. Did you take cycles or have time off from 5htp during those 2 years?
foolsgold25
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2010
- Messages
- 52
I was taking 400mg Forza ?Super? 5htp before bed each night, this was the recommended dose on the box. This would massively reduce my anxiety but made me very tired all the time & un motivated. The only time I would stop taking them is 24 hours or so before taking mdma or if I was at a festival. Exercise & diet also helped me on my road to recovery but I was a broken man before trying the 5htp, not saying this is the answer but I am pretty sure my issue is low serotonin or my receptors are fucked so 5htp or ssri would make sense to help (never tried the latter though)
lionheart90
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2018
- Messages
- 249
Thanks for the tip man. I'll give it a try. I'm already tired and un-motivated so hopefully i won't really notice those things haha. I have had a lot of issues with insomnia and staying up until like 4-5am for a long time now though. Hopefully this fixes that.
lionheart90
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2018
- Messages
- 249
Something else I discovered recently is that I was going through a period of burnout from finishing college and working a shitty and chronicly stressful job at the same time as the LTC. I was already experiencing a fair bit of burnout from college and work, the LTC really tipped me over the edge.
I also had the tendency to blame everything I was going through on the LTC. Now that I've had a few months away from that chronicly stressful job I can tell that a fair bit of the lack of energy, lack of motivation, pessimism, cognitive problems, were also due to burnout not just the LTC. IMO the LTC does add to burnout, especially emotional burnout as anxiety is a huge burden on emotions.
So alongside treating anxiety and panic attacks, consider treating burnout too and examine sources of potential burnout in your life. Relationship burnout, work burnout, LTC/health burnout. Any chronic sources of stress that persist for years can contribute to burnout. Usually it takes multiple sources. The LTC might have just been the straw that broke the camels back.
heres an article that I read on burnout. It basically says to cut off the sources of chronic stress and find ways to balance them out, or eliminate them entirely.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/learnv...ing-out-and-what-to-do-about-it/#468d39ed625b
I also had the tendency to blame everything I was going through on the LTC. Now that I've had a few months away from that chronicly stressful job I can tell that a fair bit of the lack of energy, lack of motivation, pessimism, cognitive problems, were also due to burnout not just the LTC. IMO the LTC does add to burnout, especially emotional burnout as anxiety is a huge burden on emotions.
So alongside treating anxiety and panic attacks, consider treating burnout too and examine sources of potential burnout in your life. Relationship burnout, work burnout, LTC/health burnout. Any chronic sources of stress that persist for years can contribute to burnout. Usually it takes multiple sources. The LTC might have just been the straw that broke the camels back.
heres an article that I read on burnout. It basically says to cut off the sources of chronic stress and find ways to balance them out, or eliminate them entirely.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/learnv...ing-out-and-what-to-do-about-it/#468d39ed625b
Hey guys, I can add my experience with LTC, which I have (in-part) already shared here. I used MDMA only once, in a fairly large dose, in the summer 2016 (0.8 g over the course of the night + one line during the night after). It was very stupid, obviously, but later on I paid the price.
It is really hard to describe the state of mind with words to someone who hasn't been through a similar experience. Some people don’t seem to fully appreciate the extent of what drugs can do to you. But I wouldn’t worry too much about that, it is obvious what you and other people are going through is a very real condition.
To the LT comedown itself: after the (ab)use I started experiencing some of the following symptoms: anhedonia, moderate-severe depression, DP/DR, lack of focus, anxiety, head pressure, mild eye floaters, loss of appetite, low quality of sleep. I was cognitively devastated. I was not able to work, on bad days even sitting in front of the telly was too much. I was able to fall asleep quite easily in the evenings, but the sleep was interrupted every hour or so by waking up to a panic attack. It was really weird to look at myself in the mirror, as I saw the same myself, but somehow couldn't cope with the fact one night could turn you into walking dead. I had this obsessive thinking, which was terrible. All I could think of was how fucked up I was and how I was never gonna get out of this. As strange as it sounds, it was like as if you were repeating “I’m fucked up” for the entire day and couldn’t help yourself to stop. Constant panic. I spent the days going through BL and other forums, looking for an advice, a remedy. And, just like some of you, I was shitting my pants that I was gonna stay in this hell forever. That was no place to live for anyone.
The recovery process: from the perspective I had during the LTC, it took ages to see any improvements. The first thing I did when I couldn’t handle the anxiety anymore was to see a psychiatrist to get some bromazepam (Lectopam, Lexotan, Lexilium etc.) to calm myself down a bit. It helped to some extent, but obviously it wouldn’t cure the other symptoms. I started running every day, which I believe helped a lot, as it would partially get my mind of the obsessive thoughts for an hour or so. I tried to see friends, some of them were really helpful and non-judging. Tried to work as much as I could, even though I was not too efficient (or at all). Stopped drinking alcohol, coffee (triggered anxiety even more), and doing any drugs. Tried to eat well as much as I could. After roughly a month of hell things started to lift up a bit. On some days, I felt I was doing much better, but then I relapsed. I had mirtazapine (Remeron) prescribed, but after consulting 8BitTrip here on BL I decided not to take it and keep it as the last resort (which now I consider a mistake, should’ve gone through with it right away). Things were gradually getting better with occasional marked improvements. After two months I was fully functioning, still a little bit depressed, but compared to where I started it was heaven. After three months I could say I was fully recovered. When I look back at it, I can see that I actually got out quite quickly. It is probably due to my one-time use, with no previous drug history. Nevertheless, it was the worst experience I had to go through in my life.
I told myself I was never gonna do MDMA again in my life, and I haven’t since. However, me being stupid enough, year later, during the summer 2017 I did coke about four times. After the fourth use (~0.4 g + booze in one night), very similar symptoms to the ones I experienced during the LTC occurred. Panic attacks, troubled sleep, head pressure, tinnitus, severe anhedonia, anxiety, and depression. This had lasted for about eight months. It hadn’t been as severe as the first time after MDMA, but it still was a very hard time.
Recovery had been like the one after MDMA in most aspects, but distinctively more sluggish. For the eight months I stopped drinking alcohol and coffee, and obviously stopped doing any drugs. After four months of not seeing much (or any) improvement I went to see a psychiatrist, and had trazodone (Desyrel, Oleptro, Trittico etc.) prescribed. That’s the point when I started seeing real improvements, starting with better quality of sleep, and over the course of three to four months all the other symptoms had been lifting until I was ok again.
Even though it takes longer for some people to recover, it happens. It happened for me both times. As someone already mentioned in this thread: the reason why you don’t see too many recovery stories is probably that once you’re alright, it only seems like a really, really bad dream. So, most people don’t feel the urge to share their stories anymore, they move on a try to forget going down the LTC spiral. And it is just natural.
In conclusion, based only on my personal experience I can say this: It is crucial to realise the LTC is not a well-defined medical term, and it involves a broad range of symptoms, varying from one person to another. It is most likely a psychiatric disorder(s), triggered in predisposed individuals by drug use (not MDMA exclusively!). Getting professional help and treating it as a psychiatric disorder with all the means necessary (psychotherapy, pharmacotherapy) can help elevate the symptoms, and lead to complete (subjective) recovery.
My general suggestions for the recovery would be:
a) Exercise. Running and going to the gym was a massive help for me both times.
b) Stay off BL and other forums. As hard as it might be, trying to keep your mind off the current condition as much as possible proved very useful for me.
c) See a psychiatrist. It helps. As much as information online might seem beneficial, a real doctor can do much more for you. However, choose one experienced in drug related/induced problems, and be completely honest. If she/he prescribes you with a medication, take it accordingly.
d) Take your time. I know this is something you probably don’t wanna hear. I know I didn’t want to. But at the end of the day, it is the only thing you can really do that will eventually cure you. It might take some time. It might feel you’re never gonna make it through. But you will. There will be a day you sit down with your mates, have a good laugh and no worries. Hang in there.
It is really hard to describe the state of mind with words to someone who hasn't been through a similar experience. Some people don’t seem to fully appreciate the extent of what drugs can do to you. But I wouldn’t worry too much about that, it is obvious what you and other people are going through is a very real condition.
To the LT comedown itself: after the (ab)use I started experiencing some of the following symptoms: anhedonia, moderate-severe depression, DP/DR, lack of focus, anxiety, head pressure, mild eye floaters, loss of appetite, low quality of sleep. I was cognitively devastated. I was not able to work, on bad days even sitting in front of the telly was too much. I was able to fall asleep quite easily in the evenings, but the sleep was interrupted every hour or so by waking up to a panic attack. It was really weird to look at myself in the mirror, as I saw the same myself, but somehow couldn't cope with the fact one night could turn you into walking dead. I had this obsessive thinking, which was terrible. All I could think of was how fucked up I was and how I was never gonna get out of this. As strange as it sounds, it was like as if you were repeating “I’m fucked up” for the entire day and couldn’t help yourself to stop. Constant panic. I spent the days going through BL and other forums, looking for an advice, a remedy. And, just like some of you, I was shitting my pants that I was gonna stay in this hell forever. That was no place to live for anyone.
The recovery process: from the perspective I had during the LTC, it took ages to see any improvements. The first thing I did when I couldn’t handle the anxiety anymore was to see a psychiatrist to get some bromazepam (Lectopam, Lexotan, Lexilium etc.) to calm myself down a bit. It helped to some extent, but obviously it wouldn’t cure the other symptoms. I started running every day, which I believe helped a lot, as it would partially get my mind of the obsessive thoughts for an hour or so. I tried to see friends, some of them were really helpful and non-judging. Tried to work as much as I could, even though I was not too efficient (or at all). Stopped drinking alcohol, coffee (triggered anxiety even more), and doing any drugs. Tried to eat well as much as I could. After roughly a month of hell things started to lift up a bit. On some days, I felt I was doing much better, but then I relapsed. I had mirtazapine (Remeron) prescribed, but after consulting 8BitTrip here on BL I decided not to take it and keep it as the last resort (which now I consider a mistake, should’ve gone through with it right away). Things were gradually getting better with occasional marked improvements. After two months I was fully functioning, still a little bit depressed, but compared to where I started it was heaven. After three months I could say I was fully recovered. When I look back at it, I can see that I actually got out quite quickly. It is probably due to my one-time use, with no previous drug history. Nevertheless, it was the worst experience I had to go through in my life.
I told myself I was never gonna do MDMA again in my life, and I haven’t since. However, me being stupid enough, year later, during the summer 2017 I did coke about four times. After the fourth use (~0.4 g + booze in one night), very similar symptoms to the ones I experienced during the LTC occurred. Panic attacks, troubled sleep, head pressure, tinnitus, severe anhedonia, anxiety, and depression. This had lasted for about eight months. It hadn’t been as severe as the first time after MDMA, but it still was a very hard time.
Recovery had been like the one after MDMA in most aspects, but distinctively more sluggish. For the eight months I stopped drinking alcohol and coffee, and obviously stopped doing any drugs. After four months of not seeing much (or any) improvement I went to see a psychiatrist, and had trazodone (Desyrel, Oleptro, Trittico etc.) prescribed. That’s the point when I started seeing real improvements, starting with better quality of sleep, and over the course of three to four months all the other symptoms had been lifting until I was ok again.
Even though it takes longer for some people to recover, it happens. It happened for me both times. As someone already mentioned in this thread: the reason why you don’t see too many recovery stories is probably that once you’re alright, it only seems like a really, really bad dream. So, most people don’t feel the urge to share their stories anymore, they move on a try to forget going down the LTC spiral. And it is just natural.
In conclusion, based only on my personal experience I can say this: It is crucial to realise the LTC is not a well-defined medical term, and it involves a broad range of symptoms, varying from one person to another. It is most likely a psychiatric disorder(s), triggered in predisposed individuals by drug use (not MDMA exclusively!). Getting professional help and treating it as a psychiatric disorder with all the means necessary (psychotherapy, pharmacotherapy) can help elevate the symptoms, and lead to complete (subjective) recovery.
My general suggestions for the recovery would be:
a) Exercise. Running and going to the gym was a massive help for me both times.
b) Stay off BL and other forums. As hard as it might be, trying to keep your mind off the current condition as much as possible proved very useful for me.
c) See a psychiatrist. It helps. As much as information online might seem beneficial, a real doctor can do much more for you. However, choose one experienced in drug related/induced problems, and be completely honest. If she/he prescribes you with a medication, take it accordingly.
d) Take your time. I know this is something you probably don’t wanna hear. I know I didn’t want to. But at the end of the day, it is the only thing you can really do that will eventually cure you. It might take some time. It might feel you’re never gonna make it through. But you will. There will be a day you sit down with your mates, have a good laugh and no worries. Hang in there.
Last edited:
neverMore1
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2019
- Messages
- 1
Hi, there is my experience. I hope that it help someone.
On Friday on the end of February last year I was at party where I had XTC (blue Punisher - it should contains about 300 mg MDMA by pillsreport). I had half pill and about 2 hours after I took half from half so I could take about 225 mg. During the party I had a few beers.
Everything was normal, maybe weaker at all and not so much euphoric but not some different or negative.
Pill was probably clear - my few friends had same pills before and that night and after that I tested what remain.
I had first XTC somewhen in 2015 and I was using it once per 2 - 3 months about 100 - 300 mg per night (never more). On summer festivals I had sometimes two days in a row but that was just once or twice maximum per year in summer. From beginning I was little bit more sensitive. I had comedowns very often about 2 - 5 days, in two occurrences about two weeks.
Between last used and what I'm writing was three months and few days. Last party was without comedown. But two month before I had coke (probably 0.3) and booze once and after that I felt strange about two weeks. It's hard to subscribe but it was little similar to MDMA comedown but much weaker.
So I still don't know why this happened. Maybe too strong XTC? Maybe my serotonin level was low? Maybe wrong pill? Maybe alcohol? Maybe something totally different?
Next day I was tired but nothing strange compared to last times. On Sunday I was totally okay which was continues to Monday noon. When started quite strong headaches. From Tuesday morning I was totally fucked but from previous experiences when I had comedown it wasn't so much different but definitely much stronger. After few days it was worse and worse.
First month I had strong headaches, brain fog, brain zips, blurry vision, anhedonia, anxiety, light muscle twitching, strong nausea every morning, my memory was very bad, mood was very unstable and sometimes perceived world very faster. I was clumsy, stupor, without emotion and jittery from people. I had very often dreams and I was very often waking up at night. When I was listening music from headphones, I felt very strange - it was similar to be high but very unpleasant.
I was using vitamin C, magnesium, multivitamin, drank pink grapefruit juice. After few weeks what I was taking magnesium I had new symptoms - stiffing cervical spine and skittish. I found that can be from magnesium. So I stopped it and after few weeks stiffing cervical spine disappeared.
About month later I started with 5HTP. Year back I tried 5HTP once before sleep, morning after my head strongly tangled on few moments so I knew that it probably doesn't me good. I was this time pretty desperate so I decided to try again. Morning after was okay so I was taking it about next four or five days.
About these days started derealization and depersonalization which was totally new and quite crazy. I had it mainly when I was tired. Interesting thing on it was that when I ate some food so DP/DR mostly disappeared. With sunglasses that was worse and very often started that.
I wasn't sure if DP/DR is relate with 5HTP but when I searched on Google: "derealization after 5HTP" so I found out that it is possibly. I don't think that is 5HTP safe.
About two months later I was on neurology where did me EEG - I didn't tell them the truth where is probably cause. But result was that I am on 100% healthy.
Second and third month was maybe totally worst. New symptoms joined to those from the first month. Mainly DP/DR. And new - when someone talk to me and gesticulated made me sick, panic attacks, OCD, sensitivity on light and noise and quick moves (for example even such stupid things like playing videos on the internet) mades me very sick.
Somedays it was better so I thought that will be better at all but after one or two better days it was back. Probably little bit less stronger but still very very bad.
I stayed away from alcohol mostly - hangovers was very unpleasant and with DP/DR.
About fifth month i felt slightly better.
Strange thing is that many of these symptoms I felt mainly morning and afternoon but at night I was feeling very good. When I wasn't in work so I felt definitely better. And when I was on festivals or on holiday where I wasn't thinking about my health status I felt much better...almost health. For example when I searched in discussions about these things and read it so I was starting have headaches and brain fog (yeah, I know how it sounds).
My opinion is that few symptoms I did it myself or made worse how I kept thinking on it.
Until the end of September I had very often blurry vision, DP/DR, stupor and other things what I wrote above. I read about acetylcysteine on some discussion - that is very strong antioxidant and someone using for healing psychic difficulties and DP/DR.
After my experiences with magnesium and 5HTP I was very careful with ACC so I took once per week and observe how my body react on it. It was quite okay. Sometimes I felt little bit worse immediately after taken (probably psyche again) but until two hours maximum I was okay.
I was using one ACC per week and 10 tablet at all. Day after taken I felt better and endured it about 4 - 6 days.
I think that ACC helped me...but maybe it was all coincidence.
At September everything was starting be better.
Now (almost one year after) I'm on 99% ok. Almost all symptoms are gone minimal one month, most of them are gone for few months. Now I'm sensitive on coffee which is still better (but coffee at hangover is still pretty bad) - few months back I had to stop drink coffee because I was very distrait and didn't feel very good.
Sometimes I feel light pressure and stupor in head for few hours (once or twice per week) but that isn't however limiting have normal life. And it's still less common. (If anyone knows what to try for faster healing, I'll be grateful.)
When I drink alcohol now I feel very normal after that and hangovers are as before.
Yeah, I'm feeling very healthy now.
What I tried and if it helped (Which is very difficulty to guess):
Vitamin C - I think that helped.
Magnesium - Firstly I don't know but after few weeks I felt worse so I stopped it.
5HTP - Definitely not helped. I have feeling that made worse.
Acetylcysteine - Definitely helped for me.
Vegetable and fruits - mainly broccoli, blueberries, raspberries (all these have antioxidants) - I think that helped.
Nuts - brazil nuts, sesame (it should be good for brain - memory) - Sesame maybe but after brazil nuts I felt sometimes very strange
Tea - St. John's wort (it should be good for calm and sleeping) - Maybe
Pink grapefruit juice - Maybe
Exercises - After some sport I felt very good but it mustn't drain out
Main is that everything is temporarily. I'm convinced that everyone will be fine but it needed (a lot of) patience and time, saves your body and mainly don't think on it.
Be careful with supplements, everything (especially what is written in internet discussion) doesn't have to be good for you - everyone is different. Stay away from drugs. From my point of view is pointless and very stressful doing every day some memory tests, reading about other episodes, be in this environment and still thinking on it. It needs to let out.
- English isn't my native language so sorry for mistakes.
- That are not advices what eat or what to do. This is only my experience and I don't know how can react someone else. So don't take it as a guide or something.
On Friday on the end of February last year I was at party where I had XTC (blue Punisher - it should contains about 300 mg MDMA by pillsreport). I had half pill and about 2 hours after I took half from half so I could take about 225 mg. During the party I had a few beers.
Everything was normal, maybe weaker at all and not so much euphoric but not some different or negative.
Pill was probably clear - my few friends had same pills before and that night and after that I tested what remain.
I had first XTC somewhen in 2015 and I was using it once per 2 - 3 months about 100 - 300 mg per night (never more). On summer festivals I had sometimes two days in a row but that was just once or twice maximum per year in summer. From beginning I was little bit more sensitive. I had comedowns very often about 2 - 5 days, in two occurrences about two weeks.
Between last used and what I'm writing was three months and few days. Last party was without comedown. But two month before I had coke (probably 0.3) and booze once and after that I felt strange about two weeks. It's hard to subscribe but it was little similar to MDMA comedown but much weaker.
So I still don't know why this happened. Maybe too strong XTC? Maybe my serotonin level was low? Maybe wrong pill? Maybe alcohol? Maybe something totally different?
Next day I was tired but nothing strange compared to last times. On Sunday I was totally okay which was continues to Monday noon. When started quite strong headaches. From Tuesday morning I was totally fucked but from previous experiences when I had comedown it wasn't so much different but definitely much stronger. After few days it was worse and worse.
First month I had strong headaches, brain fog, brain zips, blurry vision, anhedonia, anxiety, light muscle twitching, strong nausea every morning, my memory was very bad, mood was very unstable and sometimes perceived world very faster. I was clumsy, stupor, without emotion and jittery from people. I had very often dreams and I was very often waking up at night. When I was listening music from headphones, I felt very strange - it was similar to be high but very unpleasant.
I was using vitamin C, magnesium, multivitamin, drank pink grapefruit juice. After few weeks what I was taking magnesium I had new symptoms - stiffing cervical spine and skittish. I found that can be from magnesium. So I stopped it and after few weeks stiffing cervical spine disappeared.
About month later I started with 5HTP. Year back I tried 5HTP once before sleep, morning after my head strongly tangled on few moments so I knew that it probably doesn't me good. I was this time pretty desperate so I decided to try again. Morning after was okay so I was taking it about next four or five days.
About these days started derealization and depersonalization which was totally new and quite crazy. I had it mainly when I was tired. Interesting thing on it was that when I ate some food so DP/DR mostly disappeared. With sunglasses that was worse and very often started that.
I wasn't sure if DP/DR is relate with 5HTP but when I searched on Google: "derealization after 5HTP" so I found out that it is possibly. I don't think that is 5HTP safe.
About two months later I was on neurology where did me EEG - I didn't tell them the truth where is probably cause. But result was that I am on 100% healthy.
Second and third month was maybe totally worst. New symptoms joined to those from the first month. Mainly DP/DR. And new - when someone talk to me and gesticulated made me sick, panic attacks, OCD, sensitivity on light and noise and quick moves (for example even such stupid things like playing videos on the internet) mades me very sick.
Somedays it was better so I thought that will be better at all but after one or two better days it was back. Probably little bit less stronger but still very very bad.
I stayed away from alcohol mostly - hangovers was very unpleasant and with DP/DR.
About fifth month i felt slightly better.
Strange thing is that many of these symptoms I felt mainly morning and afternoon but at night I was feeling very good. When I wasn't in work so I felt definitely better. And when I was on festivals or on holiday where I wasn't thinking about my health status I felt much better...almost health. For example when I searched in discussions about these things and read it so I was starting have headaches and brain fog (yeah, I know how it sounds).
My opinion is that few symptoms I did it myself or made worse how I kept thinking on it.
Until the end of September I had very often blurry vision, DP/DR, stupor and other things what I wrote above. I read about acetylcysteine on some discussion - that is very strong antioxidant and someone using for healing psychic difficulties and DP/DR.
After my experiences with magnesium and 5HTP I was very careful with ACC so I took once per week and observe how my body react on it. It was quite okay. Sometimes I felt little bit worse immediately after taken (probably psyche again) but until two hours maximum I was okay.
I was using one ACC per week and 10 tablet at all. Day after taken I felt better and endured it about 4 - 6 days.
I think that ACC helped me...but maybe it was all coincidence.
At September everything was starting be better.
Now (almost one year after) I'm on 99% ok. Almost all symptoms are gone minimal one month, most of them are gone for few months. Now I'm sensitive on coffee which is still better (but coffee at hangover is still pretty bad) - few months back I had to stop drink coffee because I was very distrait and didn't feel very good.
Sometimes I feel light pressure and stupor in head for few hours (once or twice per week) but that isn't however limiting have normal life. And it's still less common. (If anyone knows what to try for faster healing, I'll be grateful.)
When I drink alcohol now I feel very normal after that and hangovers are as before.
Yeah, I'm feeling very healthy now.
What I tried and if it helped (Which is very difficulty to guess):
Vitamin C - I think that helped.
Magnesium - Firstly I don't know but after few weeks I felt worse so I stopped it.
5HTP - Definitely not helped. I have feeling that made worse.
Acetylcysteine - Definitely helped for me.
Vegetable and fruits - mainly broccoli, blueberries, raspberries (all these have antioxidants) - I think that helped.
Nuts - brazil nuts, sesame (it should be good for brain - memory) - Sesame maybe but after brazil nuts I felt sometimes very strange
Tea - St. John's wort (it should be good for calm and sleeping) - Maybe
Pink grapefruit juice - Maybe
Exercises - After some sport I felt very good but it mustn't drain out
Main is that everything is temporarily. I'm convinced that everyone will be fine but it needed (a lot of) patience and time, saves your body and mainly don't think on it.
Be careful with supplements, everything (especially what is written in internet discussion) doesn't have to be good for you - everyone is different. Stay away from drugs. From my point of view is pointless and very stressful doing every day some memory tests, reading about other episodes, be in this environment and still thinking on it. It needs to let out.
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@Lionheart- I salute you for all your research but one thing I wanted to comment on was in regards the 1991 article on three ecstasy users getting anxiety/agoraphobia. Take what they say with a grain of salt, 1991 was the onset of SSRI culture and was a panacea at the time. There was likely a bias.
Based on all the anecdotal evidence I?ve combed through the best drugs for relief effect GABA. ZeroLuck actually proves that with his confused post about why the alcohol made him feel better..
GABA has an effect on serotonin and seems to calm down whatever?s happening. It helps with HPPD too. I know this because I have decent HPPD and soon as I have some alcohol my vision clears up and all the visual snow vanishes.
I?m not going to completely write off SSRI?s though because they may help rewire the brain in a way that helps. And GABA effecting drugs are bandaids, nothing more, and may make things a lot worse in fact..
If I were to explore any GABA drugs for potentially helping with LTC, it?d be actual GABA, phenibut or maybe GHB. Has anyone tried these with any positive effect long term?
-GC
Based on all the anecdotal evidence I?ve combed through the best drugs for relief effect GABA. ZeroLuck actually proves that with his confused post about why the alcohol made him feel better..
GABA has an effect on serotonin and seems to calm down whatever?s happening. It helps with HPPD too. I know this because I have decent HPPD and soon as I have some alcohol my vision clears up and all the visual snow vanishes.
I?m not going to completely write off SSRI?s though because they may help rewire the brain in a way that helps. And GABA effecting drugs are bandaids, nothing more, and may make things a lot worse in fact..
If I were to explore any GABA drugs for potentially helping with LTC, it?d be actual GABA, phenibut or maybe GHB. Has anyone tried these with any positive effect long term?
-GC
lionheart90
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It's an anxiety disorder. Anything that helps anxiety helps the "ltc". GABA sedates, anxiety excites. It's only natural that GABAs sedation will counter the excitation of anxiety. As for beer being helpful though, I don't think so. It may help with GABA in the short term (the night/day of drinking), but the next day GABA levels will be out of balance so it doesn't really help it just trades a bit of relief now for a little less later. Not to mention it has a lot of other negative side effects.
As for anecdotal evidence... ehh, suit yourself man. Personally I've seen more people flailing around like dying fish rather than taking notes and examining everything with the analytical skills of a scientist. And because of that I'm not inclined to draw conclusions from most peoples analysis.
--
One thing I think is happening with the LTC is that a lot of conditioning is happening between anxiety/cortisol and different states of mind. Stressful events condition the memory and unconscious the most. And it seems like a panic attack is the start of almost or all the LTC events.
It seems logical to me that because MDMA is a stimulant that also induces euphoria there is a lot of cortisol and adrenaline and serotonin being released at the same time. Cortisol and adrenaline can be thought of as anxious chemicals and serotonin as a happy chemical.
Tripping on MDMA, feeling euphoric, then suddenly out of nowhere (maybe due to too high of a dose, mixed chemicals (LSD, coke, weed, etc), or bad setting) anxiety sets in becuase of lots of cortisol and adrenaline being released as part of MDMA high. Somehow when MDMA is working as it should, the euphoria over rides the stimulant effects and hides the anxiety, but if by accident or somehow the euphoria fades (maybe becuse someone was tripping too close together and developed a tolerance, or too high a dose, or some other reason) and they happen to be in a situation that induces anxiety. then suddenly it becomes a feedback loop where the anxiety builds and builds, until a panic attack happens.
then once the panic attack happens, the brain has this conditioned into itself "euphoric/happy state = potential to turn into panic attack/hell state". So from then on, for god knows how long, anything that is may induce happiness is subconsciously avoided. Or worse, anything that induces a feeling similar to euphoric/happy state also begins to induce the panic attacks. SO basically anything you would do to feel good begins to feel bad. You listen to music to feel good (get a chemical high from release of dopamine, etc) and suddenly you are sub-consciously associating that good feeling with panic attack coming so you begin to get extreme anxiety.
if you read this guys post above me it seems to show this trend. He tries to do things to make himself happy but it just brings on anxiety symptoms. it's as if by trying to feel good, he's inducing anxiety symptoms. Which matches my hypothesis (which came long before this guys post) that somehow happy state of mind (chemical abundance of dopamine/serotonin in the brain) is associated with anxiety and panic attacks. So for a period of months or years afterward, whenever a happy state is achieved there is an associated anxiety feeling too. It continues until the conditioning is broken. It could continue forever since its behavioral. As long as behaviors are in place that keep it "real" (like safety mechanisms instead of exposure techniques) it would theoretically stay that way. The way to cure/heal it is to expose yourself to the things that induce anxiety (like trying to feel happy) and instead of running from it, just stay with it and use some basic CBT techniques until you condition a new behavioral response. Look up how agoraphobia is treated, it uses exposure therapy + CBT thought calming techniques to condition a new behavioral response. agoraphobic therapy helped me finish off my LTC.
it's similar to how if you get a panic attack in a grocery store, you begin to subconsciously fear grocery stores from then on. Except its with states of mind. Panic attack in the height of MDMA euphoria = subconscious fear of being super happy.
it's just a hypothesis but it seems to fit a lot of the puzzle pieces together.
--
SSRI or some form of anti-depressant or anxi-anxiety drug would allow someone to avoid reconditioning their mind through behavioral techniques. SSRI basically does conditioning on auto-pilot through chemical means. Which imo is 10x better (and may be why people see 10x faster recovery with drugs as opposed to people who go "all natural (supplements, yoga, exercise, etc)") and much less painful.
I theorize if I was able to get my hands on an SSRI (or better drug, im not fond of SSRI. atypical antidepressants/anti anxiety drugs have always worked better for me) I could have cut a lot of time off my LTC.
As for anecdotal evidence... ehh, suit yourself man. Personally I've seen more people flailing around like dying fish rather than taking notes and examining everything with the analytical skills of a scientist. And because of that I'm not inclined to draw conclusions from most peoples analysis.
--
One thing I think is happening with the LTC is that a lot of conditioning is happening between anxiety/cortisol and different states of mind. Stressful events condition the memory and unconscious the most. And it seems like a panic attack is the start of almost or all the LTC events.
It seems logical to me that because MDMA is a stimulant that also induces euphoria there is a lot of cortisol and adrenaline and serotonin being released at the same time. Cortisol and adrenaline can be thought of as anxious chemicals and serotonin as a happy chemical.
Tripping on MDMA, feeling euphoric, then suddenly out of nowhere (maybe due to too high of a dose, mixed chemicals (LSD, coke, weed, etc), or bad setting) anxiety sets in becuase of lots of cortisol and adrenaline being released as part of MDMA high. Somehow when MDMA is working as it should, the euphoria over rides the stimulant effects and hides the anxiety, but if by accident or somehow the euphoria fades (maybe becuse someone was tripping too close together and developed a tolerance, or too high a dose, or some other reason) and they happen to be in a situation that induces anxiety. then suddenly it becomes a feedback loop where the anxiety builds and builds, until a panic attack happens.
then once the panic attack happens, the brain has this conditioned into itself "euphoric/happy state = potential to turn into panic attack/hell state". So from then on, for god knows how long, anything that is may induce happiness is subconsciously avoided. Or worse, anything that induces a feeling similar to euphoric/happy state also begins to induce the panic attacks. SO basically anything you would do to feel good begins to feel bad. You listen to music to feel good (get a chemical high from release of dopamine, etc) and suddenly you are sub-consciously associating that good feeling with panic attack coming so you begin to get extreme anxiety.
if you read this guys post above me it seems to show this trend. He tries to do things to make himself happy but it just brings on anxiety symptoms. it's as if by trying to feel good, he's inducing anxiety symptoms. Which matches my hypothesis (which came long before this guys post) that somehow happy state of mind (chemical abundance of dopamine/serotonin in the brain) is associated with anxiety and panic attacks. So for a period of months or years afterward, whenever a happy state is achieved there is an associated anxiety feeling too. It continues until the conditioning is broken. It could continue forever since its behavioral. As long as behaviors are in place that keep it "real" (like safety mechanisms instead of exposure techniques) it would theoretically stay that way. The way to cure/heal it is to expose yourself to the things that induce anxiety (like trying to feel happy) and instead of running from it, just stay with it and use some basic CBT techniques until you condition a new behavioral response. Look up how agoraphobia is treated, it uses exposure therapy + CBT thought calming techniques to condition a new behavioral response. agoraphobic therapy helped me finish off my LTC.
it's similar to how if you get a panic attack in a grocery store, you begin to subconsciously fear grocery stores from then on. Except its with states of mind. Panic attack in the height of MDMA euphoria = subconscious fear of being super happy.
it's just a hypothesis but it seems to fit a lot of the puzzle pieces together.
--
SSRI or some form of anti-depressant or anxi-anxiety drug would allow someone to avoid reconditioning their mind through behavioral techniques. SSRI basically does conditioning on auto-pilot through chemical means. Which imo is 10x better (and may be why people see 10x faster recovery with drugs as opposed to people who go "all natural (supplements, yoga, exercise, etc)") and much less painful.
I theorize if I was able to get my hands on an SSRI (or better drug, im not fond of SSRI. atypical antidepressants/anti anxiety drugs have always worked better for me) I could have cut a lot of time off my LTC.
lionheart90
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zero why not just try it out? why research it?
lionheart90
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Every ones body is different so I wouldn't suggest researching other peoples experiences.
Psychiatrists and doctors spend like a decade of their life learning about medicine and the human body, and even with that extensive amount of knowledge they often fail to prescribe the best medicine for someone the very first time. Usually what happens is they prescribe one and based off the side effects and your personal reaction to it they will known which way to lean for the next prescription. It's like a guessing game to some extent, each miss gives them more clues and information and points them towards what medicine will work best. Thats why it takes 4-5 tries usaully before someone finds the right medicine for them.
if it takes someone 10 years of medical training and 4-5 tries to get it right, what chance do us mere mortals have? thats why I prefer to just let the doctors do the thinking and prescribing. I write down my symptoms and journal everything but I don't do anything more than that.
Link the multiple studies that show MDMA could impair cognition and memory.
anxiety and depression can impair cognition and memory. MDMA can cause anxiety and depression. so theres that.
Psychiatrists and doctors spend like a decade of their life learning about medicine and the human body, and even with that extensive amount of knowledge they often fail to prescribe the best medicine for someone the very first time. Usually what happens is they prescribe one and based off the side effects and your personal reaction to it they will known which way to lean for the next prescription. It's like a guessing game to some extent, each miss gives them more clues and information and points them towards what medicine will work best. Thats why it takes 4-5 tries usaully before someone finds the right medicine for them.
if it takes someone 10 years of medical training and 4-5 tries to get it right, what chance do us mere mortals have? thats why I prefer to just let the doctors do the thinking and prescribing. I write down my symptoms and journal everything but I don't do anything more than that.
Link the multiple studies that show MDMA could impair cognition and memory.
anxiety and depression can impair cognition and memory. MDMA can cause anxiety and depression. so theres that.
ZeroLuck
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I've been always aware of the anxiety and depression affecting the memory and cognition, but my most prone cognitive issues were the first 2 weeks of taking the mdma, when I had no anxiety yet.
I'll look for the research papers later, because never bothered to save them
I'll look for the research papers later, because never bothered to save them
lionheart90
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I don't think I can explain it well enough for it to sink in for you. You just have to either try a psychiatric medication that heals you, or find some natural way of healing. Once you get out of the LTC you will see that there was no damage caused, period. You have to get out of the LTC in order to see that though. IDK how to explain it, once you get better you just instantly see it for what it was. While you are still in the LTC you just can't see it like that though.
I strongly urge you to begin some kind of anti anxiety or anti depressant drugs. Within 3 or so months I bet you'll be healed and able to see it for yourself.
I strongly urge you to begin some kind of anti anxiety or anti depressant drugs. Within 3 or so months I bet you'll be healed and able to see it for yourself.