>>SUSPENDED<< Prune v2018

[Forever Changes]

can you just confirm that private message inbox's won't be touched, otherwise I'll need to save my PMs to my hard drive

 

[RhythmSpring]

PRUNE [proon] verb (used with object), pruned, pruning.- to rid or clear of (anything superfluous or undesirable).

Undesirable to whom?

There's no way you can trust everyone to save all the "valuable" threads in 2 weeks. There's going to be a lot of gold lost in this. A lot of stuff that people would find useful, even if it happened to be posted in 2006.

This is a further reflection of the modern fallacy that what is newest is best.

Self-castration.

 

[Anabasis]

Undesirable to whom?

There's no way you can trust everyone to save all the "valuable" threads in 2 weeks. There's going to be a lot of gold lost in this. A lot of stuff that people would find useful, even if it happened to be posted in 2006.

This is a further reflection of the modern fallacy that what is newest is best.

Self-castration.

+1

I?ve found absolutely incredible threads that are the stuff of legend in my endless hours of reading that haven?t been touched in years.

Bump them so others can benefit?

Fuckin panic on the streets of Bluelight.

Hard to understand!

 

[TheLoveBandit]

can you just confirm that private message inbox's won't be touched, otherwise I'll need to save my PMs to my hard drive

PMs will NOT be touched. INBOX sizes will NOT be touched. You have my word.

Undesirable to whom?

There's no way you can trust everyone to save all the "valuable" threads in 2 weeks. There's going to be a lot of gold lost in this. A lot of stuff that people would find useful, even if it happened to be posted in 2006.

This is a further reflection of the modern fallacy that what is newest is best.

Self-castration.

For reference, any given forum is only reviewing ~1500 threads in that 2 week period. That's roughly 3 pages of threads/day. Fairly manageable for an individual and can be done in about 20-30 min if they stop and read a few along the way. Now, if we have a bunch of members pitch in and look at the pages as well, that's dozens of eyes evaluating if a thread is rubbish or archive worthy (or if it should be moved back for more current discussion). There should be no gold lost, if everyone gives just a bit of effort.

The reason only ~1500 threads/2wks is being reviewed is it is a manageable amount (history has proven this out over an over on BL). But because of that, a forum may have to do several weeks worth of these reviews to work through all the years of posts.

The reason for this whole exercise is that BL is a treasure trove of valuable information, but it can get lost in heaps of non-relevant threads if we aren't diligent about this. For example, say I want to go find meth, aside from an arrest record, what am I likely to find? 5 threads of use, hidden in 500 threads of no use. Our goal is to remove those 500 threads of no use so people can get the information they need more quickly, and to remove the 'noise' from the 'gold'. But we're looking to members to help us identify that gold, and ensure it doesn't get thrown out.

 

[TheLoveBandit]

Hi TLB, has there been a response to this from the lounge staff?

No response yet beyond 'flush it'. So, as you see, we haven't acted on that - I"m looking for a bit more discussion on the matter. Either we keep it as is, or more likely we set it up for member review of what to save. Point is, there will be no executive decision to just flat out delete it all. Members will have a chance to save things if needed.

This part worries me a little. Regular pruning is mentioned in various areas around bl and has previous to this five years been handled as a community , is there any reason why the pruning/archiving of the good stuff/moving the best to best of bl was neglected and any reason to doubt that the whats in our best interest will be done from now on?

There has been a few decisions in that time left up to the staff of bl without any consultation or discussion with the rest of us that have not worked out, I would hope very much that there is room for input and inclusion of the entire board . The infraction system and use of it in recent times is going to have to be addressed eventually.

The current state of Bluelight and its future is best discussed here, in the arena and openly . Bl is not the BL of 2009/2010 where you feature in BOBL, its been a long time and maybe too long but you're here now and theres hope we can all bring back the plur.

I can't speak to decisions or communications made in my absence. I can say that I fully agree for decisions which impact the members, we will work diligently for transparency and member involvement as much as we possibly can.

 

[andyturbo]

I can understand why you need/are doing this.. but still a very sad thing too hear.

PS. If staff geting lazy is an issue, I will gladly apply too join the crew. - Speak too SpaceJunk if so. Cheers

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

+1

I?ve found absolutely incredible threads that are the stuff of legend in my endless hours of reading that haven?t been touched in years.

Bump them so others can benefit?

Fuckin panic on the streets of Bluelight.

Hard to understand!

I agree with this as well. There's a lot of great information in old bluelight threads.

 

[swilow]

Hmmm.... sack them.


Theres not much point discussing much with bunch of **** who have forgotten why they are on staff in the first place.

I know you just jump at any chance to criticise staff/Bluelight but I think the overriding point TLB is making is that it doesn't make much difference, you will get the chance to review and retain what you want from TL. You will get to decide what to keep. No need for revolution here.

Personally, I'm for keeping as of Bluelight as possible.

 

[T. Calderone]

I think mods should consider NOT deleting posts that have thousands of views. Note: some of these proposed deleted posts have >100,000 views. The posts can be sorted by number of views. The highly viewed ones probably turn up on Google searches.

I can move this to the announcement area for review.


EDIT by TLB: Apologies, but in merging Goddess' thread into this one, things got fairly out of whack. I've quoted their OP and put it in this post for clarity.

 

[TheLoveBandit]

1. Can we keep personal commentary out of a thread intended for public discourse during a significant site event, please? I've removed the comments that were not helpful for this discussion. Please don't bring more back in here.

2. Andy, thanks for the help, we do have enough staff that can address the forums during the prune, but you're always welcome to apply for a position when one is open. For now, anyone who is a member can still help without a staff position by reviewing any PENDING DELETION folders to help us ensure quality threads aren't lost. Thank you.

3. ALL, as regards TL and the Old Lounge...there is no decisions coming soon, primarily as I'm not pushing the issue with staff right now. It is not a top priority. None of that is on the current forums under review, so we can just chill and deal with it when we get to it. Our hands are pretty full addressing the forums that ARE currently under review. No need to load the plate further just yet, and don't sweat that things will suddenly disappear without notice. I give you my word.

PS - Lazy staff is not an issue atm. Certainly not with the EIGHT forums we're currently reviewing, and a few of the pro-active forums that are asking me how soon they can start into their reviews.

 

[Tranced]

I think mods should consider NOT deleting posts that have thousands of views. Note: some of these proposed deleted posts have >100,000 views. The posts can be sorted by number of views. The highly viewed ones probably turn up on Google searches.

I think I 100% agree with you. We need a good long look at what and why we are deleting, and what would be worth keeping in terms of google/SEO stuff. There needs to be a strategy in place for this.

 

[TheLoveBandit]

I think mods should consider NOT deleting posts that have thousands of views. Note: some of these proposed deleted posts have >100,000 views. The posts can be sorted by number of views. The highly viewed ones probably turn up on Google searches.

Excellent point. If something is getting a lot of views, it means people are searching for something and finding that thread. What can't be answered is if that thread had the information they wanted or not. For example, if someone searches and comes up with a dozen threads on the topic they wanted, they end up checking them all to see if the info they wanted was in each one. However, not all of them are of the same value to the search.

As a specific example, I searched Cannabis Discussion for 'busted' so I know what to expect if I get arrested. The search function brings back 443 threads. Which one(s) is the right one(s)? How many get read only to be discarded as a waste of the reader's time?

I think I 100% agree with you. We need a good long look at what and why we are deleting, and what would be worth keeping in terms of google/SEO stuff. There needs to be a strategy in place for this.

There is, in fact, a strategy.

• First, we're not simply deleting willy-nilly based on arbitrary values of views or replies or dates. We are putting EVERY single thread up for review so that anyone (members or staff) can say "Hey, this one has value, don't get rid of it...and we don't! We save it for future searches, or more discussion if the topic still has legs.
  
• We give EVERYONE ample time to review a set of threads before deleting the ones not deemed worth saving.
  
• For identifying threads of quality, the use of views and replies IS recommended. A lot of replies generally means there was a good point and some detail worked into regarding the topic. A lot of views can mean it gave information to a lot of folks....or maybe not. Realize, this site hasn't been pruned in 7ish years. This skews the number of views significantly, so this metric should be taken with a grain of salt though it can still be an indicator.

Ultimately, what determines if a thread is worth saving is having someone actually take a look at it, read it, and determine this is of use to someone in the future. And by getting rid of the ones that don't have future value, we reduce those 443 hits from the search function down to about 50, maybe even merge some into Mega-threads so all related info is in one spot. And then, the quality of what BL provides goes up significantly.

If the goal were to increase SEO by keeping a bunch of useless threads, we'd make a bot to generate threads of low value but containing key words and flood the site. That's not the goal. The goal is to ensure we effectively provide quality information and a friendly environment to ask more questions and carry on more discussions.

 

[Foreigner]

Speaking for my own part of the boards, P&S... there are a lot of really great posts by deep thinkers there that I would not want to see disappear. It's the kind of stuff that you don't commonly see on the internet and I would even say is unique to BL. Sometimes the deeper posts are even made in so-called worthless threads.

How are you determining what will stay and what will go to the archives?

 

[Jabberwocky]

Excellent Question!

Have you checked the Bluelighting Tips thread in support? Hoptis provided this:



The bad news is, the tip is from 2009
The good news is, our software hasn't changed much since then :D

Hopefully that will work for you. If not, let us know and we'll try to see what the new solution is, but it SHOULD be possible.

This is paintstakingly time consuming.

Any other alternatives?

 

[TheLoveBandit]

Speaking for my own part of the boards, P&S... there are a lot of really great posts by deep thinkers there that I would not want to see disappear. It's the kind of stuff that you don't commonly see on the internet and I would even say is unique to BL. Sometimes the deeper posts are even made in so-called worthless threads.

How are you determining what will stay and what will go to the archives?

This is the case in most forums...BL has generated a lot of quality discussions we wouldn't want to lose. By using this PENDING process for review, we give everyone (mods and members) the change to ensure we don't lose threads of value. Anyone can ask for a thread to be saved, and really we are encouraging to err on the safe side and preserve a thread if there is interest in it.

How 'are we'/'am I' determining what will stay or go? We rely on members and mods to look at the threads and say 'yeah, I would like to see us keep that'. That's about all it takes, then a mod can move it to archive if the discussion has run it's course and we want to keep the thread for reference, or bump it back into the forum proper if there is more discussion to be had on the subject. Criteria can range across:
- A lot of people replied, and it was a pretty good discussion to keep
- A lot of people viewed it, so it must hold a lot of info people are referencing, we ought to keep it
- I wrote an awesome beat down on that idiot that I'd personally like to make sure he never forgets
- That idiot embarrassed himself with those words, lets make sure he can't escape the earned shame
- The mod abused their position in that one, I want to make sure it isn't forgotten and can be addressed at some point
- That response used a link and summary I really want to hang onto for future reference
- There was that one member who always used a crazy font, I want to go back and read it when I'm high
- That was hilarious, I def want to be able to come back to that later

As you can see, the bar is set pretty damn low. If anyone sees a reason to keep something, we can keep it. The intent is to NOT lose any of that kind of material. Then we are left with the stuff nobody has a use for, and can't see it being of use in the future. That's what we're ultimately looking to clear out.

This is paintstakingly time consuming.

Any other alternatives?

It is time consuming to look at the threads and place a value on them. I'll admit that, but if a person spends five minutes determining a thread has no value, and we get everyone else to agree right now it has no future value....how much time are we saving everyone by preventing that no-value thread from being brought up in future searches over and over?

If you mean it is time consuming to download the posts...yeah, serious pain in the ass. I'd suggest don't do it. I'd suggest you let a mod know to save it, and we will. That's a lot simpler, and keeps it available for everyone who might need it. Also, for those that don't know, staff have super powers to mass-move a bunch of threads like that at once, so it isn't a time consuming manual thread-by-thread process to save things either. True story.

 

[swilow]

Indeed. I am finding it relatively simple and not too time consuming selecting maybe 100 threads at a time and shifting them over. This isn't too hard to do if you use relatively superficial criteria to evaluate a threads 'worthiness' (views, replies). For me, I'm just trying to keep as much as possible.

The alternative to this would be some sort of 'opt-in' system where we nominate threads to be deleted, rather than nominating threads to save as we are doing now, but I think this would eat up way more time. Still, it worries me that we are going to lose important and useful topics doing it this way.

 

[TheLoveBandit]

The alternative to this would be some sort of 'opt-in' system where we nominate threads to be deleted, rather than nominating threads to save as we are doing now, but I think this would eat up way more time. Still, it worries me that we are going to lose important and useful topics doing it this way.

Someone suggested such an opt-in system in a related ANON thread. We used to have something like that when the site was much, much smaller - a trash bin forum for any mod to move garbage from their forums into, and it would be purged periodically. That fell apart as we propagated so many fora on various subjects, and mods got more focused on their specific forum rather than the overall site. It broke down in that mod behaviour started just closing, or unapproving threads, or letting them die a quick silent death of no replies in their forum rather than trying to clean them out. So, junk just collected over the years.

A few forums have evolved to using their 'archive' folder as a trash bin. So, aside from the golden oldies, there is garbage from the last few years in some archives that serves no purpose other than to distract when they turn up for keyword searches. This was NOT what the archives were for, and those threads should have been removed...but to where? We can definitely improve our process for taking out the trash going forward, and seek a more consistent policy across the site.

An added benefit of the prune method is it finds things hiding under the bed and in the closet. There are some good discussions which are found by a search, but could be given better visibility by inclusion in a forum index of key threads, merging with related threads into a mega-thread to consolidate info into one spot, and bumps to get visibility for people with input or curiosity who hadn't run the search function and found that hidden gem.

As to losing quality threads by the prune method, that always remains a possibility. By giving weeks to review threads, and opening it up to ANY member to highlight something for saving, we hope to minimize our exposure of losing quality threads. It's not perfect, but it is the best we can do in trying to eliminate the trash. Along with ANYONE being able to highlight something to save, and encouraging mods to err on the side of caution (and save) when evaluating a thread, we are doing all we can to ensure quality is not lost.

 

[Foreigner]

Since the review process seems to be fairly superficial, I am OK being pretty hands off with this one.

Something I'm reminded of... if people post their content to a website and expect it to be kept, then they should probably be making copies of their own writings.

 

[S.J.B.]

Something I'm reminded of... if people post their content to a website and expect it to be kept, then they should probably be making copies of their own writings.

Absolutely. I've been participating in Internet forums since I was ten years old, and a lot of the forums I used to post in have long since been deleted from the Internet. I wish I had saved some of the things I had written, especially from when I was very young.

 

[RhythmSpring]

What will happen with archived threads?

EDIT: I'm silly, I didn't read (remember) the OP. They will be saved!

EDIT 2: My post count dropped! Ow, my ego!