The world after PST - what's going to happen?

[iamgollum]

Hi ZaphodBeeblebrox (gees, Honey Badger is a lot easier to type...): I just wanted to let you know you are doing fantastic and I am seriously impressed with your commitment to get clean. I know exactly what you are experiencing--you should check out my thread at Poppy seed Tea withdrawal Is Hell. I went CT from a 4 year 3-4 lb/day seed tea habit and I honestly thought I was going to die at one point. It was without a doubt the worse thing I have ever experienced. I managed to stay completely clean for 5 months and then like a dumbass I used the old "I've been good--one cup won't hurt" argument and I was back to 2.5 lbs/day in no time. Currently working on a taper plan this time to try and minimize the WD symptoms when I kick this time.

Anyway, for me the PAWs started to diminish at around the 3 month mark last time. Can't say that I just woke up one day and it was all better, but things started improving much faster at that point and the good days started to far out-number the shitty ones. Obviously, everyone's body chemistry is different. Just know that it will get better, that I promise.

You are kicking ass. So proud of you--and this comes from someone who knows the agony and misery you have endured to get to this point. Just keep focusing and you will be fine.

 

[Xorkoth]

I managed to stay completely clean for 5 months and then like a dumbass I used the old "I've been good--one cup won't hurt" argument and I was back to 2.5 lbs/day in no time. Currently working on a taper plan this time to try and minimize the WD symptoms when I kick this time.

This is exactly what has happened to me every time I've had that thought. "I'll be able to be responsible this time". It's lies, all lies! Unfortunately, for some of us, moderation is not possible though our brains will tell us it is even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

 

[ZaphodBeeblebrox]

You guys are amazing! No one knows i had this habit (or any other opiates for that matter) so this is literally the only support system I have - thank you all so much for the encouragement and helping me stay off the tea.

IamGollum - it took me multiple tries of getting clean (hating withdrawal) then going back to the tea until I finally quit. I?d say maybe around 3-5 months of going back and forth before it stuck. You know you can do it, just don?t let your addicted brain try to convince you otherwise, it?s a cunning little devil in your head that has to be starved out! Lol. Just think about all the money you would save if you quit!

Shadowmeister - yes I?m taking Kratom every day... I haven?t quite gotten to the part of being able to do nothing daily. Sobriety scares me for some reason, and when I?m feeling depressed or anxious of course I?ll try anything to feel better. I need to stop taking it, I know that. I think I will likely go through withdrawal as well, even when tapering (yes I?m taking that much). I looked at my calendar and I?m just over 4 months from quitting the tea (with a total of 6 days of use split before and after thanksgiving).

I?m so happy you were able to quit and stay sober Shadowmeister - you give us all hope! At this point I just want my brain to go back to normal and be happy again. The thing is that I?ve never been mrs sunshine even before opiate use/abuse, so I?m wondering if this my normal or its still PAWS. I?m rooting for PAWS to be honest....

I?m going to figure out a taper on the Kratom and get off that shit too, trying out boring sobriety for the first time in a LONG time lol.

Thanks again for all the support everyone, you are all amazing and we can do this!

- Honeybadger don?t care.

 

[Xorkoth]

Yeah I started my opiate addiction with 7 years of kratom addiction primarily. 30-50 grams a day, every 4-6 hours dosing. I would dose at midnight, wake up in withdrawal at 5:30 to 6am, dose, finish sleeping, wake up, dose within an hour. The withdrawal is in some ways easier than poppy tea (which was what I moved to eventually when kratom wasn't doing shit for me anymore but making me feel normal - of course I had periods of other opiates in there too including heroin), emotionally it is, but the restlessness of a deep kratom addiction is the worst of any opiate I've been addicted to, which includes kratom, poppy tea, oxy and heroin. Also the short half-life makes it so you need to dose more and more often to stay out of withdrawals. A lot of people view kratom as a harmless non-opioid alternative but it's not true. I mean yes it's better to be addicted to kratom than opiates because it's kind of self-limiting, I can't imagine ever ODing on kratom. But still, it's an opiate and will cause a world of hurt if you abuse it.

This really is an amazing community, it's why I've been here so long and volunteer.

 

[ZaphodBeeblebrox]

Yeah I started my opiate addiction with 7 years of kratom addiction primarily. 30-50 grams a day, every 4-6 hours dosing. The withdrawal is in some ways easier than poppy tea (which was what I moved to eventually when kratom wasn't doing shit for me anymore but making me feel normal - of course I had periods of other opiates in there too including heroin), emotionally it is, but the restlessness of a deep kratom addiction is the worst of any opiate I've been addicted to, which includes kratom, poppy tea, oxy and heroin.

You are the first person I?ve ever talked to who started their opiate use with Kratom, I can definitely see how that would happen though. I used to think the pharma companies were behind it being banned (temporarily) a few years ago because it was taking customers away from them (I know a bit conspiracy theory-ish), but the more I learn about the negative effects and think about it, the more I realize it?s not as harmless as I originally thought. My doctor told me recently that I should stay away from it (of course I pretended I didn?t even know what it was) she said she had to detox more than one person FROM Kratom WITH suboxone. I was like holy shit!

Thinking more about it... this could be the reason why my muscle tone hasn?t returned in the 4 months since quitting PST as they?re both opiate agonists. I have always been able to pack on muscle really easily (actually have intentionally developed a routine to avoid it, since I?m a lady!) and part of my quitting plan was going to the gym and playing soccer - a lot. Meaning I?m doing one or the other 4-5 days a week with some intense workouts. I know I keep bringing this up but it?s annoying me now how difficult it has been, signaling that things still aren?t back to normal yet.

Ok well if this is the source of my problems - PAWS-like symptoms, depression, low energy, no appetite, no muscle tone, etc. then maybe the situation isn?t as dire as I thought. I?ll have to taper my way down to a jump off dose then see how things improve, maybe it?s even causing my anxiety to worsen...

I?d like to blame all my problems on it, but I know some of it is still recovery from my long-term tea habit. SMH when will I learn not to abuse every single substance I enjoy?

I wanted to ask why you were still in this forum since you said you had quit, but didn?t want to pry in case you were coming off another drug or something like that. Thank goodness you?re volunteering, probably have helped a lot of people who don?t have a support system (besides me)!

- Honeybadger dont care

 

[Xorkoth]

Yeah I had tried hydrocodone a number of times but I never "got it"... then I tried kratom and it was like holy shit, this is amazing! My early days of kratom were in all honesty my favorite opiate experiences (I never IVed anything). If you have no tolerance it's really pretty strong and it has a cocaine-like stimulating euphoria at the beginning to start it off.

yeah I'd say kratom is the reason you don't feel like you're past opiates. I mean PAWS might still be something you need to deal with, too. Maybe, maybe not. In my experience, kratom produces less PAWS than full-scale opiates. One nice thing about kratom withdrawal is that it's way shorter than PST withdrawal.

SMH when will I learn not to abuse every single substance I enjoy?

Good question, I feel you on this. I tend to abuse everything except for weed and psychedelics. I've even abused psychedelics in the past. Poly-drug addiction is a bitch.

I wanted to ask why you were still in this forum since you said you had quit, but didn?t want to pry in case you were coming off another drug or something like that. Thank goodness you?re volunteering, probably have helped a lot of people who don?t have a support system (besides me)!

I've been here since 2006. I primarily post in the Psychedelic Drugs forum, because I love psychedelics and still use them. Bluelight means a lot to me, I met some of my best friends on here (we ended up living in the same town after a few years). It has helped me a whole lot over the years, when I started experimenting heavily with psychedelics I had no one in my life to talk to about it, until I found this place... it probably allowed me to turn that period of my life into a positive thing instead of an overwhelming and negative thing. TDS has helped me at various points by providing support. I guess I just want to give back, plus I really like posting on forums. I also write a lot of trip reports (normally I have a different name, but I'm not going to mention it here until my divorce is final - ex is sneaky and knows about this place).

 

[ZaphodBeeblebrox]

Poly-drug addiction is a bitch.

Is that what this is called? Fuck. I'm not sure i'd call it an addiction though....I'm just all or nothing when it comes to select drugs & alcohol. When I drink i don't really do one and done, it's get wasted or don't drink at all (although I AM getting better at this and learning to enjoy the buzz of a few drinks only). Same with opiates, I just have to take everything that I have. If I don't, the seeds/pills I have are always in the back of my mind whispering "take me...." until I'm out, then I wonder where they all went lol. Although i'm also getting better at this, I have some pills I'm saving for hangovers (also I don't have enough to get high so what's the point) I guess that's the right word after all, but I have labeling it like that because addiction is harder to get past....

One nice thing about kratom withdrawal is that it's way shorter than PST withdrawal..

This definitely is true, it's like withdrawing from pills (people think THAT's hard, lol PST is way worse IMO). So it'll be like a 2-3 day deal.
I need help making a taper schedule. I can't tell honestly how many i'm taking, i'd say its a LOT, some days around 50/day (I know... i know...) I just don't know what's wrong with me sometimes, I'm taking anything I can get my hands on just to kinda check out mentally. But why do I feel like I NEED to do that? It's not like I hate my life, I have a great family and home, job can be annoying but I have a good one, I play sports a ton so have friends there, exercise a bunch, etc. so why am I addicted to escaping? Addicted is the right word here in my mind, because I have a stronger urge to escape or have a cushion or I don't know what to call it - during the day to just not be fully sober. Its sobriety i'm afraid of, but why???? I really don't know, I'm sure i'd feel so much better overall - mentally & physically - if I just didn't take anything.

Anyway, yes I need help on my taper plan. Here's an idea on how to use the 150 caps I bought today:
Tues/Wed 30
Thurs/Fri 15
Sat/Sun 10
Mon/Tues 5
Wed - 0 (maybe 2-3 at night to avoid RLS at night)

Ugh sorry for the rant but what the fuck am I doing???? I am spending a lot of money on this shit chasing a high that I won't get from Kratom (maybe in the beginning but not anymore) and take it sometimes until I get sick. I know this, I realize what i'm doing, but I don't stop and I am really irritated at myself. This is the first time I realized that it's truly because i'm afraid of sobriety and just really don't understand it.

Thanks for your continued support, I'm so happy you're sticking around and can relate to the love of Kratom and PST! It's nuts when you can talk to someone else about this stuff (at all), no less someone who knows exactly how you feel. I could never get addicted to psychedelics though, I don't know how to relax on them and always thing someone is going to try to take advantage of me while i'm on them lol (like rob me or try to hook up with me) because i'm convinced everyone knows i'm tripping. ha ha, i'm no fun at all to do most drugs with!

- Honeybadger don't care

 

[Xorkoth]

I'm a freak, I love psychedelics. I like the lack of control. These days psychedelics are the only drugs I can use responsibly... and weed, I smoke most days but it doesn't negatively impact my life, it's just a nice way to unwind and much better than alcohol.

But yes, I, too, have a hard time drinking and then stopping. I tend to drink until very drunk, more drunk than I meant to. It's annoying. When I have stimulants I do them often until they're gone (which is why I rarely let myself have them anymore).

Anyway, kratom should take 4-5 days to withdraw from, or at least it did for me. It's not that bad except the restless legs is the worst. Certainly it's easier than PST... you're right, that is a hell of a withdrawal, and long! As for your taper plan, you could certainly try it. I suspect after the first 2 days you'll start feeling semi-withdrawy, but that it will definitely help ease you down a bit compared to cold turkey. The thing about opiates is, cold-turkeying or nearly so is an option because it's just gonna suck, and isn't at all life-threatening. You could also taper more slowly than that and drop less than 50% each time, and stay on each dose for more days, which would probably make for a somewhat softer landing, but ultimately you have to feel withdrawals sometime... and with na slower taper you basically make less severe withdrawals, but for a much longer period of time.

And good god, the amount of money... I bought kratom in bulk online by the pound for the first 5 years... that was expensive. But then I quit for like 6 months and when I started again I was only buying it from head shops, a few doses at a time, because I thought I'd end up doing 50 grams or more a day again, if I had a pound of it at a time. Well, I ended up doing almost as much anyway but spending like 10 times as much for it for a couple of years. So dumb. With poppy tea I eventually found a salvage grocery store that would sell me 25 pound boxes of really strong seeds for dirt cheap so it was actually way cheaper.

 

[ZaphodBeeblebrox]

But yes, I, too, have a hard time drinking and then stopping. I tend to drink until very drunk, more drunk than I meant to. It's annoying. When I have stimulants I do them often until they're gone (which is why I rarely let myself have them anymore).

Lol we're exactly the same then...unfortunately. It's funny I drank for such a long time (and so much, like every night) that it wasn't until I quit for a while did I realize that I was like perpetually hungover. Embarrassing to say but now when I get a hangover it brings back all those bad memories of waking up not knowing what you did or didn't do. It's not worth it anymore. I WISH I could smoke weed. I bought come CBD with 1/8 ratio of TCH the other day, in a tincture and am getting up the nerve to try it during the day - I live in a state where it's legal now - what an insane thing being able to walk into a store with weed everywhere!

Anyway. I haven't tapered at all, i've been sick all week and didn't want to add WDs to my list of symptoms. And now feel like the biggest idiot in the world for buying from headshops continually instead of ordering bulk online! What is WRONG with me? I'm a fucking idiot that's what. Honestly I didn't realize I was taking that much regularly until you and I started chatting about it. Now i'm very aware that i'm taking a shitload daily - probably on par with how much you were taking (but really i'm just too afraid to count).

When I do do the taper i'm going to do it quickly, I hated tapering PST then having prolonged withdrawals for weeks before it really hitting me. Seems like senseless torture when you can just do it fast. Well see though when I get in the thick of it lol.

I hate myself right now for letting my body get addicted to another substance after doing such a good job with quitting the tea - ALONE (besides a bit of support here) - and without anyone finding out what was really going on. Guess getting mad about it doesn't solve the problem though, and since it's not my first rodeo i know how to do it right. Good thing i'm on a hardcore workout kick (except this week of course where I only managed 20 minutes all week...) so I can clear that shit out of my system faster.

Blurg. I can't believe you're so in to psychedelics! It kinda makes sense though because you do all other things (besides weed) to the extreme where maybe you're trying to lose control - or do - so those are a good drug for you so you can release. I remember when I did them (back in like the 90's/early 2000's) we'd get black light posters and turn on the black lights, take some timothy leary and listen to the beach soundtrack! ha ha ha, i'm probably dating myself but do remember the walls melting and being like WTF. Not my DOC but to each their own!

 

[Xorkoth]

My first trip was in 2001, I was 18 and had just gone to college. It totally changed my life, I had what can only be described as a spiritual awakening on my first trip. I went from being a nihilistic atheist to understanding something of what we are and what this whole thing is. Throughout the years I've used psychedelics to help keep my inner child alive, and to avoid getting stuck in ruts, and to help me understand various things... to facilitate creativity, and just for fun, as I find them a lot of fun. Psychedelics just really agree with my brain.

Well, if you kicked PST, you'll be able to kick kratom too. It's much shorter, which is a big plus. Don't beat yourself up, just learn from your mistakes!

And yeah I visited Colorado last year and it's so cool being able to walk into a store and buy weed like a civilized person. I thoroughly enjoyed it. Can't wait til it's like that everywhere.

 

[ZaphodBeeblebrox]

My first trip was in 2001, I was 18 and had just gone to college. It totally changed my life, I had what can only be described as a spiritual awakening on my first trip. I went from being a nihilistic atheist to understanding something of what we are and what this whole thing is. Throughout the years I've used psychedelics to help keep my inner child alive, and to avoid getting stuck in ruts, and to help me understand various things... to facilitate creativity, and just for fun, as I find them a lot of fun.

Ok then yeah we're about the same age! I WISH I could use psychedelics that way, I feel like you'd be able to get past emotional hurdles or traumas by just opening your mind and really looking at them deeply. But they're definitely not for me.

So I did nothing on my taper yet, but am starting today. Have had 4 so far (claiming to be 1g each) so i'm trying to watch how much i actually take then will go down from there. Feeling better about it than i did last week, likely because i'm not sick as a dog anymore! Just hate to have to kick something else - AGAIN - but you're right, doesn't help to beat yourself up but it would help to learn from mistakes...only if i didn't keep repeating them over and over lol.

I'm going to start calculating or putting away all the money i'm saving from not taking as much kratom (if i can stick to my taper and really cut down/stop). I'm sure it's higher than I want to even realize...

Have a good week Bluelight buddy!

- Honeybadger don't care

 

[Xorkoth]

I think that's a good plan, take a much smaller amount and figure out what is necessary to avoid withdrawal. You should be able to drop your tolerance quickly that way. It's also great motivation to write down how much you're saving, that really helped me when I first got off opiates, realizing just how much more money I was keeping in my bank account (it was so much).

Addiction is a little piece of insanity, a repeating of the same mistakes time and time again. But it's always possible to break the cycle, and the sooner you do it the better because it just gets more and more ingrained and harder and harder to envision life without them.

But you got this!

 

[ZaphodBeeblebrox]

But you got this!

I did not have it. In fact, I?ve been taking a shitload on a regular basis and now find myself a few weeks from leaving the country for almost a month and needing to quit.

I tried and did decrease my dosage then a bunch of shit happened which stressed me out and I just didn?t stick to it.

I leave in 2 weeks and need to get off of a 30mg/day habit.

Help?......

 

[ZaphodBeeblebrox]

I know I?m mentally psyching myself out here. Kratom withdrawal is nothing compared to pst, which I did get through. I mean it?s like 3-5 days right?
Plus although I?m using a lot, it?s only been 6 months so I?m trying to not let it get out of hand like the PST did (trying to).
I guess it?s just that I felt like shit for MONTHS because of pst withdrawl, then had bad anxiety, felt ok for about 2 weeks, then have managed to get sick/stressed only to finally come out of it needing to taper quickly before I hit full blown WDs while out of the country.

So mad at myself right now. But the plus side is;
I exercise a lot
Can eat healthy (the problem is I don?t eat much)
Have gabapentin
Have some oxy if I really really need it (I just can?t do RLS again. I WONT)
And can buy just about anything really while out of the country.

Need help with taper schedule, and overall motivation.

Will check out kratom quitting threads here too

 

[Xorkoth]

gabapentin helps a lot. Honestly here's what I think you should do, given you have 2 weeks til you travel:

day 1 of rapid taper: 25g
day 2: 20g
day 3: 16g
day 4: 12g
day 5: 8g
day 6: 4g
day 7: 2g
day 8: stop taking it and deal with the withdrawals for 3-5 days, which are going to be substantially reduced from if you just jumped off now.

Dealing with withdrawals while traveling is going to be way harder and it'll ruin your trip.

Anyway no shame, opiate withdrawal is difficult! The gabapentin will help for sure. Don't use the oxy as it will just prolong everything (in fact you should get rid of it - also dump the rest of your kratom when you are done with the rapid taper as a symbolic gesture and to prevent yourself from easily getting more).

You'll probably have some RLS... it's inevitable. Gabapentin will help with that though. You should save it for when you jump off completely, and use it at night to prevent RLS and make it easier to sleep.

 

[Mafioso]

Hey Zap, how long did you say you were using PST, and how long have you been clean off it?

Honestly, if you leave in 2 weeks, your best bet is to go cold turkey right now. Take your last dose and throw away the rest of your kratom and oxy. It's going to take about a week or so before you start feeling better and probably another week before your mostly clear of acute withdrawal. The gaba should be enough to help you through the worst of it. Taking any oxy is only going to set you further back.

If you don't want to have to deal with RLS, you'll have to stop taking opioids. You might be able to avoid them with an extremely long taper plan but to be honest that doesn't really seem like a viable option for you. My question is how much time do you want to throw away because you are trying to avoid what will amount to probably less than a week of major discomfort? It's never an easy thing to motivate yourself to do something painful, but with opioids it's a struggle that usually only gets harder with time. People have success with opioid replacement therapy, like it seems you have as well, but there always comes a time for the final step off. And it's never a painless one as far as I can tell.

 

[ZaphodBeeblebrox]

gabapentin helps a lot. Honestly here's what I think you should do, given you have 2 weeks til you travel:

day 1 of rapid taper: 25g
day 2: 20g
day 3: 16g
day 4: 12g
day 5: 8g
day 6: 4g
day 7: 2g
day 8: stop taking it and deal with the withdrawals for 3-5 days, which are going to be substantially reduced from if you just jumped off now.

Dealing with withdrawals while traveling is going to be way harder and it'll ruin your trip.

You should save it for when you jump off completely, and use it at night to prevent RLS and make it easier to sleep.

You?re the best shadow, always so supportive and helpful . That taper schedule seems reasonable while not dragging things out too long. I would totally go cold turkey now but really doubt that would work since I can get kratom only 5 minutes from home - and one really bad night would probably take me straight there in the morning. If I could just get down to like 6-8 grams a day I would try to jump off from there and probably could. Is it a good sign I don?t wake up going through withdrawals at this point? For example I took my last dose about 12 hours ago (I?m really going to miss that dose right before bed) and haven?t taken more yet today, so I guess that should be a good sign.

But yeah, I thought about it a lot last night and besides really hating RLS (then again who enjoys the devils nightly dance) it?s really the mental stuff I?m the most afraid of. Given the real anxiety and depression struggle after quitting PST I just can?t imagine going back there again.

That said this isn?t my first rodeo either and from my memory kratoms WDs we?re quick and the mental after affects weren?t that bad at all (if any at all?). Plus, I:
- am on anti anxiety meds now (should have started them 10+ years ago when it got bad, but at least I?ve discovered them now)
- have some fast acting stuff if needed (hydroxyzine)
- have gabapentin that I am totally saving for bad nights/days, and it can be bought easily in country I?m going to
- am/will exercise every/every other day to speed things up (worked really well with PST)

And can look forward to;
- my apetite returning (after WDs pass of course)
- having lots more $$$$$
- maybe my muscle tone returning? Still waiting for this and think it never recovered from the PST because of Kratom
- more energy (probably?)


On a random note Shadow I just found your ?Big and Dandy Guide..? randomly on another thread and it cracked me up (had to pass that on to a buddy of mine who prefers to combine his drug use with extra curricular activities - and no he?s straight).

@mafioso - I had a daily PST habit for about 18 months, and quit 6 months ago, I also realize not taking opiates is the solution to not getting RLS....

 

[Xorkoth]

The Psychedelic Drugs forum names its mega-threads on topics with "Big and Dandy" (or if they're really small still, it "Small and Handy"). It's a custom that started before I ever joined.

For me, kratom withdrawals produce a lot of restlessness, but the other opiate withdrawal symptoms are less severe than full opiates. Also there is much less tendency to experience PAWS afterwards. So that should be encouraging.

I've heard hydroxyzine works quite well in helping against opiate withdrawal. And yeah, chronic opiate usage lowers testosterone rather dramatically (and temporarily) which I believe affects muscle development in women as well as in men. The exercise is of course good. If you end up buying more gabapentin, just keep in mind it produces physical dependence after a while, too. And the withdrawals are worse than opiate withdrawals (they generally are with GABAergics).

Lastly, if your anti-anxiety meds are benzos, just be aware they are very physically addictive and withdrawal from them can cause seizures... if you decide to go off them at some point you will need to do a long and slow taper and it can take some people a year or more to feel alright again. That said they can be a godsend for some people, but IMO there are much better meds for taking daily to combat anxiety (they're amazing for, say, interrupting panic attacks or bad anxiety spells when taken irregularly). Benzos eventually stop working very well and people end up with a long period of bad rebound anxiety that is worse than before the benzos.

 

[ZaphodBeeblebrox]

So days 1&2 went fine, although I did learn a few things...
1 - I haven?t been taking 30g a day, I?ve been taking more like 50. I kinda knew but never wanted to count, but have been going through 1 bottle of 150 caps every 3 days or so...
2 - meaning my regular dose was around 10-12 grams at a time, multiple times a day. I only point this out because I?m now noticing 6-7 grams doesn?t really do anything.
3 - it?s more of a mental addiction than a physical one. No i haven?t gotten down to low enough dosage to feel the WDs yet, but my compulsion to take more and more during the day has nothing to do with feeling bad (today I waited until noon before taking anything, and felt fine)
4 - when not taking a shit ton of kratom daily, I have very little urge to smoke. Really I shouldn?t want to at all because of the anxiety meds, so I think this is the only reason I still am. Maybe once I have this shit out of my system I?ll quit that next (but for now one fricking thing at a time).

That?s all for now in terms of an update. To clarify though, no my daily anxiety meds aren?t benzos, it?s Wellbutrin, so that?s positive, and the other ones I have are hydroxyzine which aren?t either. On the gaba, I am watching it now (think I learned that the hard way when first quitting PST), so I?m saving the pills i have left for when I jump off completely. Trying to not trade one addiction for another like I did last time.

Took all my body measurements and am really looking forward to my testosterone going back to normal so I can get my muscle tone back! Whoop!

Had to alter my taper a bit, but do think I cut out at least 10, likely 20 grams/day during days 1&2 alone. If I could cut around 4-5 grams a day, I should have enough time to drop off completely and recover before my trip (hopefully lessening the acute WDs a bit!).

 

[Xorkoth]

Oh awesome, I've heard great things about wellbutrin, I hope it helps.

I was taking about 50g of kratom a day when I was on it, too, except for a number of years straight. Fortunately it hasn't been too long for you. It's a good sign that although you're not feeling a lower dose, you're also not going into withdrawals. If you can not cheat, I think you'll escape without too much pain. I do think you should make sure to jump off completely at LEAST a week before your trip, though, as it would really suck to be dealing with withdrawals during your travels. Gabapentin will probably really help, too, especially with restlessness. As an aside, I have been tapering phenibut for a few months (I got some GHB and used it basically like I used to use opiates and got addicted and when I ran out I used phenibut to avoid a dangerous withdrawal), and I finally jumped off on Monday. I used gabapentin yesterday when I started feeling withdrawals and it worked so well. Now, granted, gabapentin is closer to phenibut than it is to opiates, but it really is a nice med, so I think when you jump off, you can probably at least use it to sleep if you have trouble.