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who is america?

It was far too much content from both you and Spacejunk for me to sift through. All the posts still exist and are simply unapproved until the matter can be discussed further.

You're more than welcome to make a thread about this show in CE&P. In fact I think there might be one somewhere. Or if everyone thinks this show can only be discussed in a political context, I will move the thread.

And is any Cohen stuff really political? He simply sees idiots in the world who are easy to exploit for amusement, and thus exploits them. It takes a lot of gall and intellect and I always enjoy it.
 
All the posts still exist and are simply unapproved until the matter can be discussed further.


I just rewrote it, so please don't delete it again... I don't want to discuss it with admin or anything... I don't care... But if there's something wrong with this post just let me know what it is via PM and I'll fix it for you to save you the hassle if you don't have the time to snip stuff... I'd like to discuss the show, without discussing tangential politics. That's what you said, right? I've made a big effort to not mention anything political, whatsoever that doesn't need to be said in the context of a statement about the show.

...

It's not difficult at all to find easy targets when you're attempting to humiliate people, especially if you're doing it in poor uneducated communities. The sections that bothered me the most from this series were the ones that involved real people, not celebrities or politicians. Like the guy he got to dress up as a woman. That's trashy manipulative television. It's worse ethically than most reality TV. A brilliant rich guy (Cohen) gets an uneducated poor guy from a poor community and humiliates him for money. It's exploitative and manipulative... and it doesn't mean anything.

Sacha Baron Cohen is a master manipulator. That's an understatement, actually. He's basically a mentalist. He can get people to do anything. Either that or he's lying through selective editing or he's paying them to read from a script... If you watch it again, pretty much everything that everybody says is fed to them. (I think it's a combination of all three methods.)

There are an enormous amount of humiliating videos online of people of all political associations.

Somebody said (this comment was also deleted) that he targets people on both sides. But, this isn't really true. He throws a couple of left wing "targets" in there... like Bernie Sanders... But, he doesn't go to great lengths humiliate any of them. There is a left wing character he plays on the show that is very self deprecating, and hilarious, but the show is clearly aimed in one direction. The left-wing character and the harmless Bernie Sanders appearance is intentional fodder for people - like spacejunk and Cream Gravy - to use to justify the show not being politically biased... Everybody who is humiliated in the show is conservative.

It is the equivalent of any number of Youtube series consisting of conservatives humiliating ignorant liberals... the only difference is it's created by super talented people like Nathan Fielder and Sacha Baron Cohen.

Da Ali G Show wasn't trashy manipulative television. It had boundaries. It was relatively respectful. They didn't try to utterly humiliate people and destroy their reputations. Bruno and Borat started verging into another territory. Borat was racist, but it was hilarious... and it was racist against Kazhakstan which - like rednecks and conservatives - is a socially acceptable target... But, still, they didn't break through all of their boundaires of journalistic decency.

Who is America has stepped over that line. It is not a show that tries to catch people off guard and expose them for who they are. It is a show that manipulates people into presenting an often pre-written version of themselves that is as bad as humanly possible. They put words in their mouth. They edit selectively. They coerce people into doing things that they otherwise wouldn't do... When journalists do the same thing, we call it unethical. But, when a comedian does it, it's satire.

Someone as wealthy as Cohen, inviting a bunch of people in a small town in the middle of Arizona facing economic turmoil and massive unemployment rates under the guise of boosting their economy... many of whom were elderly and probably had to travel a relatively long distance... and then intentionally trigger them with strategic pre-planned strategies to provoke a reaction... and then edit that reaction to make the whole town seem racist... This is - in reality - pretty horrible.

It was better when he had less of an cut-throat political agenda. This show promotes political division. It promotes hatred.
 
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I don't even watch it. I just enjoyed the one clip that was posted early in this thread. I'd rather be watching Stargate or something a little more intriguing.

FTR.

We get it. You think the world is out to get 'right wingers'. Again, I don't feel this is the place for such a discussion. So I really don't get why you don't just make a thread in CE&P about political motivations behind Cohen's latest work.
 
NSFW:
Okay, I said via PM I wasn't going to post again in the F&TV thread because Cream Gravy was getting upset, but I guess I can now that it's been moved? So far I've been warned not to discuss Islam in a Philosophy & Spirituality forum and not to discuss a political TV show in a film and television forum... and my thread asking for harm reduction advice about adderall was shut down for no reason.

Am I welcome to have this discussion here?
Or is the same thing going to happen?

I don't know why this thread has been moved, because the discussion is about a TV show. If there's a thread about Animal Farm in a Literature forum you've got to expect a bit of discussion about the themes of the book. To move all political discussions that stem from political literature or political cinema into non-specialised political forums means that you can't have a filmic discussion about politics... only a political discussion about films... which makes no sense to me.


You think the world is out to get 'right wingers'.


No. Who is America is not the world... nor is this website. It depends on context. I believe this show is cruel in it's anti-conservative attitudes and (beyond politics) it humiliates people for no reason and (beyond politics) I think Sacha Baron Cohen is behaving unethically... Also, from my experiences so far on this site, yes - there appears to be very little tolerance for normal conservative opinions around here. It's a pretty extreme left website. However there are extreme-right conservative forums that aren't particularly tolerant of liberal opinions and there are countless videos of conservative people targeting and manipulating liberals for monetary gain and fame. So, it depends on context... Please don't ignore what I'm saying and just put words in my mouth.

I can't quite separate from the fact that what we have here is essentially a corporate news network ruining somebody for their own monetary gain. The guy is perhaps a bit stupid, easily manipulated, or capable of bad things (human), but the network has still used him as a pawn in their game; and for that, I feel a lot of empathy towards him.


Good on you. :)

Especially when you also take into account psychological phenomena such as the milgram experiment

Very interesting.

Plus, he mentioned he had a wife and kids - this kind of thing takes it's toll on more than just the person being staged.


Indeed, and so does Trump.
 
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Of course Sasha is going about his comedy a bit unethically. It is comedy, after all. You're supposed to get a laugh out of it, or not watch it. Get it?

Just like all the unethical things Trump and pals have said and done?

Don't act like shit slinging only goes one way. It's a two-way street.
 
...he is spreading prejudice and hate... I mean, can't you see that?
i think he's exposing prejudice and hurt... i mean, can't you see that?

look at the jason spencer segment. jason spencer undoubtedly held these views. he obviously did not express openly in them publicly but his actions and words in office would certainly lead one to believe that he is, quite simply, a racist. so he's a man with both odious views and no principles.

you think it's unacceptable - unethical even - to expose that kind of bigotry on the part of an elected official?

alasdair
 
Of course Sasha is going about his comedy a bit unethically. It is comedy, after all. You're supposed to get a laugh out of it, or not watch it. Get it?

thats his entire shtick, going back 20 years, to even before Da Ali G Show was a thing
 
i think he's exposing prejudice and hurt... i mean, can't you see that?

look at the jason spencer segment. jason spencer undoubtedly held these views. he obviously did not express openly in them publicly but his actions and words in office would certainly lead one to believe that he is, quite simply, a racist. so he's a man with both odious views and no principles.

you think it's unacceptable - unethical even - to expose that kind of bigotry on the part of an elected official?


Hello, again. :)

As I said I was more disturbed by how he treats random individuals than politicians. Some of the people on the show probably deserve the way he treated them, but some of them certainly didn't. It is not helpful to expose prejudice when you're fabricating it and tricking people into doing and saying things that they otherwise wouldn't do...

Of course Sasha is going about his comedy a bit unethically....

Just like all the unethical things Trump and pals have said and done?

Don't act like shit slinging only goes one way. It's a two-way street.


When did I do that? I'm not denying that Trump has done wrong and I've never acted like it's not a two way street. In fact, I've repeatedly said - in this thread - that there are just as many conservatives shitting on liberals.

So everyone agrees now that it's unethical, what he's doing.
Great. That's all I was really saying in the first place. :)

It is comedy, after all. You're supposed to get a laugh out of it, or not watch it. Get it?


Most comedy doesn't set out to humiliate real people and ruin their lives / reputation. Most comedy doesn't ruin family relationships and lose people their jobs... and, like I said, it's a guilty pleasure. I think it's funny. I can both think it's funny and be conflicted by it... Numerous people in this thread have stated that they do also.

I was directly responding to Tranced / spacejunk's discussion about whether or not what this show is doing is right.
If we agree that it's not right, then hooray and merry days... because it's clearly pretty awful what he's doing.

thats his entire shtick, going back 20 years, to even before Da Ali G Show was a thing


Watch Ali G back to back with Who is America and note the difference. His shtick has gone from light-hearted ribbing to destroying people's lives.
 
Didn't you call all his victims fascists and that they all deserve what they get, then in the same post say that you were a really compassionate person...?

compassionate people tend to dislike bigots. and trolls ;)

still didn't answer my question - fighting fascists is not prejudice or hate.

why are you so protective of neo-nazis?


Watch Ali G back to back with Who is America and note the difference. His shtick has gone from light-hearted ribbing to destroying people'

he's gotten better. exposing racist scum is a public service.
 
It's days like this that I forget we're a drug forum.

Things seemed so much simpler when I was just a PD head :p

this isnt an airport, you dont need to announce your departure.
This made me guffaw loudly heheh

"The Cream Gravy? flight will be departing at 8:45am now instead of 8:30am. Thank you for your understanding."

On Who is America, it's really not abusive. I think I've said it, but I'll say it again; if you're gullible enough to be conned by someone like Sasha Cohen, you probably deserve it.
 
^lol

I remember finding Bruno disturbing. But I was 17 at the time. Shit cracks me up now.
 


this still makes me giggle, but it's nice to see he's evolved the way he sends up stereotypes by conducting mock interviews.

it was a fresh format but i think got a bit stale and cheap in his more recent, post-ali g efforts.

the latest series is pretty cutting-edge though, imo.
nobody else is really doing comedy like it. certainly puts colbert et al to shame.
 
"The Cream Gravy? flight will be departing at 8:45am now instead of 8:30am. Thank you for your understanding."
ALL ABOARD THE GRAVY TRAIN!

On Who is America, it's really not abusive. I think I've said it, but I'll say it again; if you're gullible enough to be conned by someone like Sasha Cohen, you probably deserve it.
yup. satirical interviews and the like are nothing new, though sasha is pushing it further than in the past (which is how art works, you cant just do the same thing you did 20 years ago and expect to be successful). but if you do dumb things and racist things in front of a damn tv camera you should expect to be called out as an idiot and racist.
 
Yeah I have no pity for people for revealing their true feelings on camera when they didn't expect it. SBC is doing a public service, IMO. If he fucked with "left-leaning" people I'd think it was important, too. Exposing people for who they are is reporting at its finest.
 
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