Dihydrocodeine - Opinons?

[apocalypse_when]

Twas me mate. I was getting mixed up with cetirizine. Which is pretty ironic because I was calling out LoginNotSecure for saying cyclizine was OTC... :D

Lol...was it you? I actually thought it was LoginNotSecured or Wilson Wilson who said cimedidine? Ah well, whichever of you cunts it was, you were mistaken haha!!

It's wierd how the septics have this OTC and we don't.. I think the reason it isnt OTC is that it has so many interactions..It would be handy to take with loperamide though... Whenever I used lope, I had to potentiate it with 1 litre of fresh grapefruit juice which tastes rank and is a cunt to force down.

Did you ever try high dose lope for withdrawls mate?

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

It seems like cyclizine is indeed OTC here. It's pharmacy only, one of the ones that needs to be sold specifically by a qualified pharmacist once in there, rather than counter assistants. I checked, last week, when picking up my refill.

They have it on display on the shelves behind the counter, and I remembered seeing in another pharmacy that the other place, had a poster up about specific meds, to question people about if asked for before sale, and which had either been reduced from POM status to just P, and valoid was on there, along with the expected stuff like PSE, dextromethorphan, a fair few others.

So I went to the place I usually pick my meds up, to pick up a refill the other week and asked the pharmacist whether it was indeed P, rather than POM (I actually have a script for it, so it was a fact-finding expedition not actually of use to me personally. Got it scripted partly because an antihistamine is useful a lot of the time for opioid itching, but mostly because I've got some GI issues that sometimes make me really, REALLY sick. It's put me in hospital before, was originally given fexofenadine as the antihistamine, but it's pretty crappy IMO and I didn't even bother using it, since it didn't help much at all, so now it's cyclizine, with ondansetron, the latter on an as-needed rather than daily basis, works like fucking magic, when my guts play up, when the two are combined and plugged [because when things get really bad, at their worst, I can't swallow anything without it coming back up within 60s, unabsorbed, even a sip of water will trigger vomiting and retching, it sucks ass]

Explained that some other people had been saying it's POM (as I'm already scripted it, so the guy didn't think I was up to anything, as why, if already prescribed it would I be interested in getting loads more of the stuff..), and that poster I'd seen in another pharmacy, and he confirmed that it is P, not POM.

It might be one of those things that can be sold OTC, but most or many pharmacists have a stick up their arse about it, like codeine linctus, Gee's, etc.

Unbranded, 50mg tablets, can't remember if it was 50ct or 100ct, 100 I think, unless the pharmacist himself is mistaken, then it seems like they are OTC, just hard to get in many pharmacies.


Edit-I really have never understood WHY, for the love of fuck, ANYONE would want to use promethazine for anything, least of all with codeine, or to try and increase euphoria, because while not as potent as it's nasty ass brethren, promethazine is a phenothiazine D2 antagonist, basically a weak member of the old-fashioned typical antipsychotics, like trifluoroperazine, chlorpromazine (thorazine).

Capable of causing really unpleasant akathisia and extrapyramidal effects, it's about 1/10th the potency of chlorpromazine though, as an antipsychotic IIRC.

Primarily, metabolism is via glucuronidation and conjugation to sulfate (hepatic), and I seem to recall reading that it either inhibits or is a substrate for, CYP-P450-2D6, although I'm not 100% sure on that one, it was a long time ago I read up on that.

In any case, it's always struck me as a pretty dumb choice of sedating antihistamine for potentiating anything meant to be euphoric, since antipsychotics are pretty much the polar opposite of euphoric; the only people who'd even try using antipsychotics recreationally are either in ignorant of their nature, or stuck in prison.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

It seems like cyclizine is indeed OTC here. It's pharmacy only, one of the ones that needs to be sold specifically by a qualified pharmacist once in there, rather than counter assistants. I checked, last week, when picking up my refill.

They have it on display on the shelves behind the counter, and I remembered seeing in another pharmacy that the other place, had a poster up about specific meds, to question people about if asked for before sale, and which had either been reduced from POM status to just P, and valoid was on there, along with the expected stuff like PSE, dextromethorphan, a fair few others.

So I went to the place I usually pick my meds up, to pick up a refill the other week and asked the pharmacist whether it was indeed P, rather than POM (I actually have a script for it, so it was a fact-finding expedition not actually of use to me personally. Got it scripted partly because an antihistamine is useful a lot of the time for opioid itching, but mostly because I've got some GI issues that sometimes make me really, REALLY sick. It's put me in hospital before, was originally given fexofenadine as the antihistamine, but it's pretty crappy IMO and I didn't even bother using it, since it didn't help much at all, so now it's cyclizine, with ondansetron, the latter on an as-needed rather than daily basis, works like fucking magic, when my guts play up, when the two are combined and plugged [because when things get really bad, at their worst, I can't swallow anything without it coming back up within 60s, unabsorbed, even a sip of water will trigger vomiting and retching, it sucks ass]

Explained that some other people had been saying it's POM (as I'm already scripted it, so the guy didn't think I was up to anything, as why, if already prescribed it would I be interested in getting loads more of the stuff..), and that poster I'd seen in another pharmacy, and he confirmed that it is P, not POM.

It might be one of those things that can be sold OTC, but most or many pharmacists have a stick up their arse about it, like codeine linctus, Gee's, etc.

Unbranded, 50mg tablets, can't remember if it was 50ct or 100ct, 100 I think, unless the pharmacist himself is mistaken, then it seems like they are OTC, just hard to get in many pharmacies.

Heh, so more 'under the counter' than 'over the counter' then eh?

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

I don't think so, the pharmacist I asked isn't one who'll break the law, but neither is he one of those tightfisted pricks who'll have bottles of codeine linctus on display and claim bald-facedly not to have it in stock, etc.

Apparently its P, not POM. Personally I don't see what the fuss is about with cyclizine, it's just another sedating antihistamine as far as I can tell. I haven't YET extracted any from my rx and re-salted it as the lactate (which is IIRC the form used in injectable cyclizine, I seem to recall the solubility of the hydrochloride in water isn't that great), or citrate, ascorbate etc. to try shooting it with methadone. But tried (didn't have any lactic acid and really at the time, couldn't be bothered waiting, as I'd just picked up a script refill, meaning all the morphine/oxy in my system was at it's lowest, having just gotten home with a fresh rx, not going to wait until solvents evaporate, etc. just so I can have a shot, and only had one needle tip left, so it got used for morphine alone)

But plugged 200mg cyclizine, waited a few minutes, whilst prepping my morphine shot, sterilizing my hands in between with iPA, etc. (since my hand was near my arse, thats definitely NOT something I want going into my veins...ew..), and did either 390 or 410mg (was made from 30s, if your wondering why the odd figure) shot of morphine, which normally would have been great. Turned out to actually LESSEN the euphoria and certainly put a damper on the IV rush. Makes me think the histamine release might well actually have something to do with the intensity of the rush, since the same dose without an antihistamine would have given me a great rush, heart pounding real corker it ought to have been, but was rather a let-down with the plugged cyclizine.

 

[Forever Changes]

Tried 330mg Dihydrocodeine - Still no luck

I've never plugged anything before but I might give this a go. There's a first time for everything. So I just crush the pills up, dissolve them in warm water and then squirt it into my rectum in a syringe?

 

[blondin]

Not sure where it stands on cyclazine being otc - but back when we use to boost 'done with it you could buy it but this was 15years ago maybe more - deffo works , as i said before similar to diconal. It's a shame those bad boys and palfium are more or less unobtainable, maybe on the DN bu then who knows what yer getting.

 

[blondin]

btw - whe i was scripted df118's (40mg of DHC) i use to take x5 every couple of hours to take the edge of WD'S and never had any ill effects - maybe i was just lucky or had a strong constitution

 

[Magicblackstarlol]

I thought it was a dirty high , always made me sick or panicking. For me codeine is so much nicer , I tried it a few times , first time I took about 150 mg and had a massive panic attack , last time I took it gave me bad stomach and sickness next day ..

 

[Wilson Wilson]

DHC is helping me so much right now taper off an oxy habit. Just 120-240mg is enough even though I was on ~200mg+ oxy daily. So thankful for easily accessible DHC right now it's a godsend otherwise I'd be rattling cold turkey like I was all weekend.

 

[steewith2ees]

DHC is helping me so much right now taper off an oxy habit. Just 120-240mg is enough even though I was on ~200mg+ oxy daily. So thankful for easily accessible DHC right now it's a godsend otherwise I'd be rattling cold turkey like I was all weekend.

If you have the self control to stick to the taper its an excellent drug for this purpose, so good that it was still used in addiction services as a first line treatment alongside methadone when I first started practising in mental health. Anyone not already beholden to methadone was detoxed using high dose dihydrocodeine administered multiple times a day due to the short duration of action and unlike methadone, occasionally extra doses could be given PRN to get folk through particularly rough patches without it sabotaging the whole taper.

Once their tolerances had dropped significantly from full habit levels, one issue that presented itself was the particular desire for this drug over methadone, as while it is not as potent its quick and short action often produced subjective effects that the patients described as the most heroin - esque among all of the substitute poppies used - sometimes seen as one of its most counterproductive properties with patients relapsing on their 'DF118' reduction regimes alone by simply taking huge doses, with no need to return to heroin or the original DOC. This was probably one of the factors that saw it phased out as the new millennium began, with buprenorphine taking its place as the primary alternative to methadone when only a short term detox was indicated.

I believe that one final issue was that while the drug was wonderful for rapid detoxes from heroin and other short and fast acting poppies, its own short DOA and need for multiple daily doses made it unsuitable for substitute maintenance in the way that methadone and bupe are prescribed.

 

[Ganjcat]

Mg for mg i find codeine STRONGER than dhc I've had 500+ mg of dhc before and it didnt even touch me(this was stupid btw dont take a dose all in one) but 120 mg of codeine gets me way higher and I usually use more codeine

 

[Ganjcat]

I thought it was a dirty high , always made me sick or panicking. For me codeine is so much nicer , I tried it a few times , first time I took about 150 mg and had a massive panic attack , last time I took it gave me bad stomach and sickness next day ..

Atleast im not the only one then

 

[Jabberwocky]

my main issue with dhc was that it was not heroin. (actually that was my main issue with most drugs didn't stop me doing them though)

was alright if i took enough but mostly useful for easing a rattle.

 

[Wilson Wilson]

If you have the self control to stick to the taper its an excellent drug for this purpose, so good that it was still used in addiction services as a first line treatment alongside methadone when I first started practising in mental health. Anyone not already beholden to methadone was detoxed using high dose dihydrocodeine administered multiple times a day due to the short duration of action and unlike methadone, occasionally extra doses could be given PRN to get folk through particularly rough patches without it sabotaging the whole taper.

Once their tolerances had dropped significantly from full habit levels, one issue that presented itself was the particular desire for this drug over methadone, as while it is not as potent its quick and short action often produced subjective effects that the patients described as the most heroin - esque among all of the substitute poppies used - sometimes seen as one of its most counterproductive properties with patients relapsing on their 'DF118' reduction regimes alone by simply taking huge doses, with no need to return to heroin or the original DOC. This was probably one of the factors that saw it phased out as the new millennium began, with buprenorphine taking its place as the primary alternative to methadone when only a short term detox was indicated.

I believe that one final issue was that while the drug was wonderful for rapid detoxes from heroin and other short and fast acting poppies, its own short DOA and need for multiple daily doses made it unsuitable for substitute maintenance in the way that methadone and bupe are prescribed.

Yeah I've heard about DHC used for detox by NHS drug services and heard many a junkie speak highly of DF118's. In fact I even heard from a mate that their local service will happily give DHC instead of bupe or methadone if the patient will accept the weaker drug. So it seems like a practice that still exists, but likely on a postcode lottery basis like anything else on the NHS.

I read even William S. Burroughs rated DHC "almost as good as heroin" and certainly it feels bloody brilliant. Now my tolerance is once again low enough to appreciate it, I honestly prefer it to oxy. I only moved to oxy because my tolerance was going up and I was offered 80's cheaply. DHC is the more euphoric drug in my opinion.

I'm trying to decide for myself if I should keep myself maintained on DHC or taper off completely. It would be easy to kick DHC in terms of physical withdrawals, but with no opiates at all I worry I'd go back to craving stronger shit. At least if I'm on DHC I have more chance of staying off oxy or becoming a smackhead. But on the other side tolerance will certainly creep once again and I could end up repeating the same mistakes.

No idea what to do honestly. I have heard private addiction specialists will script pretty much any pharma opiates within reason as long-term maintenance. If certain things go well I shall soon be in a financial position to see one. I don't want any of this to touch my NHS medical record, but if a private doc can work with me and give me a legit supply of something to maintain on I think my chances of relapsing in the future will be far lower.

Mg for mg i find codeine STRONGER than dhc I've had 500+ mg of dhc before and it didnt even touch me(this was stupid btw dont take a dose all in one) but 120 mg of codeine gets me way higher and I usually use more codeine

You likely metabolise codeine into morphine better than you metabolise dihydrocodeine into dihydromorphine and its other metabolites.

I used to find codeine super weak and DHC much stronger. But these days I actually find them as strong as each other, but they give very different highs. Mixing them together has me feeling real good.

 

[Ganjcat]

Yeah I've heard about DHC used for detox by NHS drug services and heard many a junkie speak highly of DF118's. In fact I even heard from a mate that their local service will happily give DHC instead of bupe or methadone if the patient will accept the weaker drug. So it seems like a practice that still exists, but likely on a postcode lottery basis like anything else on the NHS. I read even William S. Burroughs rated DHC "almost as good as heroin" and certainly it feels bloody brilliant. Now my tolerance is once again low enough to appreciate it, I honestly prefer it to oxy. I only moved to oxy because my tolerance was going up and I was offered 80's cheaply. DHC is the more euphoric drug in my opinion.I'm trying to decide for myself if I should keep myself maintained on DHC or taper off completely. It would be easy to kick DHC in terms of physical withdrawals, but with no opiates at all I worry I'd go back to craving stronger shit. At least if I'm on DHC I have more chance of staying off oxy or becoming a smackhead. But on the other side tolerance will certainly creep once again and I could end up repeating the same mistakes.No idea what to do honestly. I have heard private addiction specialists will script pretty much any pharma opiates within reason as long-term maintenance. If certain things go well I shall soon be in a financial position to see one. I don't want any of this to touch my NHS medical record, but if a private doc can work with me and give me a legit supply of something to maintain on I think my chances of relapsing in the future will be far lower.You likely metabolise codeine into morphine better than you metabolise dihydrocodeine into dihydromorphine and its other metabolites.I used to find codeine super weak and DHC much stronger. But these days I actually find them as strong as each other, but they give very different highs. Mixing them together has me feeling real good.

I do feel dhc but it is far to subtle for my liking if i ever get a decent amount in though I might try taking a bigger dose see where that takes me

 

[Forever Changes]

Mixing them together has me feeling real good.

what ratio of codeine/DHC together do you find optimal?


also does anyone use Grapefruit juice to potentiate DHC? Or Promethazine/Diphenhydramine?

 

[Wilson Wilson]

what ratio of codeine/DHC together do you find optimal?


also does anyone use Grapefruit juice to potentiate DHC? Or Promethazine/Diphenhydramine?

I tend to go higher on the DHC with just a sip of codeine linctus to down the DHC pills. Yesterday I did 210mg DHC and ~100mg codeine. Felt bloody brilliant.

I haven't tried white grapefruit juice (never seen it sold anywhere) but have eaten grapefruit with my opiates before. I did notice slight potentiation but honestly it could have been placebo.

I don't like sedating antihistamines though. Extremely "dirty" high combining promethazine with codeine or DHC. I tend to use non-sedating ones like cetirizine to reduce the nausea and they don't make me all groggy but do make it easier to get a proper nod on so can't complain!

 

[Forever Changes]

I tend to go higher on the DHC with just a sip of codeine linctus to down the DHC pills. Yesterday I did 210mg DHC and ~100mg codeine. Felt bloody brilliant.

You're lucky - yesterday I did 300mg codeine and felt completely nothing!

 

[emkee_reinvented]

FYI: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclizine


Famed for its ability to potentiate opiates and turn a nice opiate high into an extreme benzos blackout with associated bizarre behaviour. When injected together, the rush is reportedly very intense...


(And definitely not available OTC or in Poundshops)

This had me puzzling, the land of no worthwhile OTC products. Our best one is a coughsirup with an whopping 0.39 mg Codein a ml. DXM got taken of the shelve. And yet we have 50 mg Cyclizine pills OTC. Which is mentioned quite some as badass potentiator of opioids.

Never took them but someone over here probably has.

 

[fairnymph]

A quick little google brings up this study which suggests CYP2D6 is responsible for DHC's metabolisation. That's the same enzyme used to metabolise codeine into morphine. Interestingly it's also apparently involved in metabolising amphetamine, and I am certainly more sensitive to amphetamine than most people. That said I only get mild effects from codeine, I'm not one of those lucky buggers who can take a few codeine 30mg and feel like I'm on morphine. But I'm guessing the way enzymes work is more complex than just a dimmer switch so the way an enzyme is involved with metabolising different substances will vary. Human biology is a complex thing.

Grapefruit should in theory cause your body to metabolise DHC more efficiently and essentially potentate it as it directly affects CYP2D6.

I have almost no CYP2D6 so I need a lot of codeine for effects, but I've always been normal if not slightly sensitive to amphetamines. So there's at least 2 of us freaks.