Hello everyone....

[JohnM1977]

Hello,
I’m currently researching/educating myself on switching over from Methadone to Subutex & it landed me here..
It’s been a long tough road which I’m sure everyone here knows something about..
I’m grateful to be on my own path to recovery.. I was on Methadone for 10+ yrs & the anxiety was a major issue.. they (MMT) wanted to restabilize me every few months going higher on dose.. started @ 30ml up to 145ml in those 10+ yrs.. (i didn’t go into relapse at all since starting my journey).. I tapered off from 145ml to 50ml of Methadone in 10 months on my own.. they (mmt) were not aware of my taper.. I did it because I felt it was my only chance.. another strong motivation was that on the month I started to taper, was because my brother in law was found passed away this past March from Methadone & Xanax overdose @ 27yo.. I felt awful knowing that I got him off H only to start Methadone & he ended up abusing & injecting it.. I now know it was his choice but it still played a huge role in my life..
More about my situation.. So I just started Subutex last Monday.. I went through 78 hrs of withdrawals before jumping on Subutex.. it was a nightmare.. I was prescribed clonidine, Ativan, & BuSpar for withdrawal.. Stopped the Ativan after starting Subutex induction on my own.. that mix scares me obviously.. I was prescribed 8mg of Subutex 3 times a day.. it causes the same anxiety so I decided to take it in halves between the same timeframe.. it was better feeling & it was the same effect in length of time.. 4mg every 3 hours.. if i waited longer, I started getting mild withdrawals.. even @ 8mg subtx, I was getting the same length of time but difference was the anxiety it caused at 8mg.. Taking clonidine helps a lot but it makes me tired & loopy so being a carpenter, it’s not safe.. so I had to do something to make my situation better until my next doc appt.. tomorrow..
My concerns are..
- Why does it take 3-4 hrs to feel withdrawals when it has a long half life
- Why do I feel a buzz for about an hour then 3-4 hrs later I have to redose
- At 24mg daily, shouldn’t I be good & not needing more to keep me feeling ok (I feel the need to dose at bout 2-3am or I can’t sleep anymore.)
(Questions are for the Dr. but any input would be great)

I know I’m on high dose & im worried.. I’ve heard many things online.. “induction phase is higher until you see the doc again”, “ you were on too high of Methadone to jump over”, “you should be at a lower dose & feel somewhat withdrawal”, or “we are all different & some needs are higher in others”.
These I feel all ring true in some aspect.. maybe I’m too early in the first phase & need to stabilize.. that’s why I’m here & I look forward to reading more posts on my issue here..
Thanks for listening & hope to have a fair informational chat on these topics.. hope you all have great holiday if I don’t hear anything til after.

Sincerely
John

 

[CFC]

Hey John, welcome to Bluelight!!

Really sorry to read about your struggles I'm going to move your post over to Sober Living, as those guys are real geniuses in dealing with things like this, and should be able to point you in the right direction

Take care mate,
CFC

 

[Psychedalienation]

Good luck man. We're all here to help. I've never been seriously addicted to opioids but I wish you the best of luck. Hopefully these guys can give you some spectacular advice! Have a good Christmas/New Year.

 

[JohnM1977]

Good luck man. We're all here to help. I've never been seriously addicted to opioids but I wish you the best of luck. Hopefully these guys can give you some spectacular advice! Have a good Christmas/New Year.

Thanks & same to you & your family

 

[JohnM1977]

Hey John, welcome to Bluelight!!

Really sorry to read about your struggles I'm going to move your post over to Sober Living, as those guys are real geniuses in dealing with things like this, and should be able to point you in the right direction

Take care mate,
CFC

Thanks, I hope to learn from all advice & experiences from people here.. every time I searched the web on any addiction issues, BlueLight forum always showed up with great info.

 

[Bugzelot]

Thanks, I hope to learn from all advice & experiences from people here.. every time I searched the web on any addiction issues, BlueLight forum always showed up with great info.

I signed up and was a member here for several years when the forum first opened(I used a nick I didn't want people to recognize). I didn't post much but man I learned so much from reading posts. Back then I was a weekend warrior. Powdered my nose every Friday after work and would drink more than a case of beer(That's 24 but the coke actually kept me from getting very drunk). Oddly tho, I never touched a drink or a drug during the week or even on the weekend in general. Just Fridays after work. You're in the right place, John.

Hang around and even if you don't feel like posting you will still feel much better as you read other posts.

 

[JohnM1977]

I signed up and was a member here for several years when the forum first opened(I used a nick I didn't want people to recognize). I didn't post much but man I learned so much from reading posts. Back then I was a weekend warrior. Powdered my nose every Friday after work and would drink more than a case of beer(That's 24 but the coke actually kept me from getting very drunk). Oddly tho, I never touched a drink or a drug during the week or even on the weekend in general. Just Fridays after work. You're in the right place, John.

Hang around and even if you don't feel like posting you will still feel much better as you read other posts.

Thanks & I had friends that were very much the same in their ways back when I drank with them. Haven’t drank alcohol since the 10+ yrs of starting my journey.. not that it was a problem since it was “occasional” it caused problems afterwards lol.. I’ll be here, thanks again

 

[Runningfox]

I don't have any maintenance experience but cfc is right-- lots of folks in this forum do.

I just wanted to say I'm so so sorry for the loss of such a young family member. I cant imagine.

We are a good community. You'll learn alot n NEVER lack for someone to confide in .

 

[Stargazer]

Hi John. We're all with you in struggling and trying to get it right.

Hopefully toothepastedog will come around soon. He knows alot about what you're asking. Hang tight.

 

[JohnM1977]

I don't have any maintenance experience but cfc is right-- lots of folks in this forum do.

I just wanted to say I'm so so sorry for the loss of such a young family member. I cant imagine.

We are a good community. You'll learn alot n NEVER lack for someone to confide in .

Thanks

Hi John. We're all with you in struggling and trying to get it right.

Hopefully toothepastedog will come around soon. He knows alot about what you're asking. Hang tight.

Awesome, I’m patient for all great insight.. I guess my doc appt is tomorrow so I don’t have much to add.. I hope I can start to taper soon but I just can’t imagine how long a taper is at such a high 3x daily dose.. or I should say 6 since I break it up more..
thanks

 

[Runningfox]

Ive found I'm able to taper certain meds far more quickly than some Recommended Tapers lay out.
You'll figure out what works for you

 

[JohnM1977]

I don't have any maintenance experience but cfc is right-- lots of folks in this forum do.

I just wanted to say I'm so so sorry for the loss of such a young family member. I cant imagine.

We are a good community. You'll learn alot n NEVER lack for someone to confide in .

Hi John. We're all with you in struggling and trying to get it right.

Hopefully toothepastedog will come around soon. He knows alot about what you're asking. Hang tight.

Ive found I'm able to taper certain meds far more quickly than some Recommended Tapers lay out.
You'll figure out what works for you

I agree we are all different.. we can’t all fit into their recommendations.

 

[JohnM1977]

Soooo.. my doc says I need to stabilize for a few more weeks before talking about tapering.. I was prescribed panthenolol (spelling?) which is a heart med/beta blocker/high blood pressure med.. after my appt., later that afternoon (yesterday), had to be rushed to the ER for stage 2 hypertension (BP 169/114) causing slurred speech, flushed white skin (I’m Hispanic), faint feeling, migraine, chest pain, & I was talking but it was random words... my gf was scared.. got there & they instantly had 6 people (Dr.’s, nurses, ekg tech, radiology, lab techs, etc) started ekg, iv, blood tests, X-rays & eye movement tests.. I was given nitro, aspirin, & bp meds.. luckily I got there when I did.. even after that cocktail, my BP was not going lower that 140/90.. which isn’t bad but they wanted it lower.. after bout an hour, blood tests came back that my potassium levels were low causing my heart to react the way it did.. I didn’t have a clue how important of an electrolyte it is.. they started me on a few hour long potassium drip with heart monitoring.. my kidneys were also going haywire so I was given other meds for them.. I gotta say that nitroglycerin made my heart feel weird with added dull pain.. but it helped with opening all my blood vessels that where being constricted.. after about an hour of the potassium drip & nitro dose, my symptoms started to disappear..
It was an experience for both my gf & I.. it took less than 5 min of walking in the ER door & the nurse knew something was seriously wrong.. I couldn’t be more grateful to all people working to save lives in the medical field.. you all ROCK!!
They said I was close to very serious heart complications if I hadn’t came in.. So today I got a call from the cardiologist saying I’ll need to come in tomorrow for further testing.. they feel with the added withdrawals & meds, there could be deeper issues..
so that’s my last 24 hrs

 

[Runningfox]

Jeeeeeeezus
I'm glad you're ok n got Promt Correct medical attention!

 

[JohnM1977]

Thank you.. It was an unpleasant experience to go through & just knowing that I’m seeing a cardiologist today, gives me that anxiety & worry.. I’m trying to be optimistic & tell myself I’ll be ok but the unknown does affect me.. not to mention missing work on a late notice also makes me uneasy.. in the construction field, bosses tend to lean on the reliability side.. they have things planned out & this causes an issue I’m sure.. I don’t want to ever lose my job.. it pays very well & im fortunate to be employed.

 

[JohnM1977]

Spelling on the bp meds is PROPRANOLOL
My spelling was incorrect

 

[SebastianSkip]

Spelling on the bp meds is PROPRANOLOL

So sorry you’re dealing with added health issues but really glad you went to ER and were helped. How scary!

I take propranolol as needed for panic attacks. It’s an old school bp med (pretty sure they’re all old school because they work, no need for improvement) but it’s also used for performance anxiety so it may give you an added bonus of lowering your anxiety. It’s also prescribed to block migraines and for tremors. It’s a pretty versatile med! The dosages for these other uses is much lower than for bp (20-40mg) so another bonus is no temptation to take too much This is all info easy enough to find online but I’ve been prescribed propranolol for all these other uses one time or another, so thought it’s easier for me to share when you’ve got so much going on.

Rooting for you!

 

[JohnM1977]

So sorry you’re dealing with added health issues but really glad you went to ER and were helped. How scary!

I take propranolol as needed for panic attacks. It’s an old school bp med (pretty sure they’re all old school because they work, no need for improvement) but it’s also used for performance anxiety so it may give you an added bonus of lowering your anxiety. It’s also prescribed to block migraines and for tremors. It’s a pretty versatile med! The dosages for these other uses is much lower than for bp (20-40mg) so another bonus is no temptation to take too much This is all info easy enough to find online but I’ve been prescribed propranolol for all these other uses one time or another, so thought it’s easier for me to share when you’ve got so much going on.

Rooting for you!

Thanks for the input on propranolol.. so they have me on 40mg’s, is it considered high dosage or average? It’s the immediate release, not extended. Thanks again

 

[JohnM1977]

Went to cardiologist, got labs done & go back next week for Stress Echocardiogram.. I’m hoping for nothing life changing atm

 

[Pghlady6972]

John, I see now that you're coming off of a lengthy methadone program. Wow, you've accomplished much already, you should be so proud! I'm sorry you went through that big scare with your heart! I hope all is well with that asap. I'm glad you have professionals to help you out with this switch and taper. I am here if you need to chat, but tbh I don't know anything about methadone. I'm coming off of a medium heroin habit. There is no way possible you could've done a 5 day taper and survived. Keep up the great work and do everything the docs say, you'll taper down in no time at all. I'll continue to follow your thread. Good luck and have a great night!