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Kratom a popular substitute for opiates, may cause addiction and even death FDA warns

avcpl

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Feb 4, 2009
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https://www.theverge.com/2017/11/14...advisory-dea-drug-scheduling-opioid-addiction

“The increasing use of kratom as an alternative or adjunct to opioid use is extremely concerning.”

Kratom, a Southeast Asian plant known for its opiate-like effects, may put users at risk of addiction and even death, the US Food and Drug Administration said in a public health advisory today. The drug has been rising in popularity as an opioid alternative.

Kratom, which has been consumed in Southeast Asia for centuries, binds to the same opioid receptor as morphine — so it can treat pain. Some chemists figure it’s a promising starting point for new, less addictive painkillers. But it’s currently taken as a recreational drug, with its users saying it treats anxiety, depression and opioid withdrawal. These anecdotal reports aren’t the same as real medical research — and more is needed to determine the plant’s medical benefits. “At a time when we have hit a critical point in the opioid epidemic,” the FDA statement said, “the increasing use of kratom as an alternative or adjunct to opioid use is extremely concerning.”

“EXTREMELY CONCERNING.”
Last year, the US Drug Enforcement Administration announced its plans to name the substance a Schedule I drug, the most restrictive classification alongside heroin and LSD which restricts medical research. After a public outcry, the DEA decided to postpone its decision, and asked the FDA to weigh in.

The potential safety risks for kratom raise “significant concerns,” according to the FDA. The FDA is aware of 36 deaths linked to the use of products containing kratom. Calls to poison control centers regarding kratom have increased 10-fold from 2010 to 2015.

For now, kratom is widely available online and in some stores. But it may be laced with other substances, such as opioids like hydrocodone, the FDA says. Taking kratom is also linked to serious side effects like seizures, liver damage, and withdrawal symptoms. People who are taking the product to treat depression and opioid addiction may be putting themselves at risk, the agency says. “Patients addicted to opioids are using kratom without dependable instructions for use and more importantly, without consultation with a licensed health care provider about the product’s dangers, potential side effects or interactions with other drugs,” FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb wrote in the advisory.

If companies want to market kratom for its supposed health benefits, they should go through the FDA’s drug review process, Gottlieb said. That way the product can be assessed for its safety and effectiveness. But for now, no company has tried to properly develop a drug that includes kratom.

“THOSE USES MUST BE BACKED BY SOUND SCIENCE.”
“While we remain open to the potential medicinal uses of kratom, those uses must be backed by sound science and weighed appropriately against the potential for abuse,” Gottlieb wrote. Until someone does the science the agency is requesting, the FDA will attempt to prevent shipments of kratom from entering the US. The agency has already detained hundreds of packages at international mail facilities.

Whether kratom will eventually be banned, however, depends on the Drug Enforcement Administration. The DEA will review the FDA’s assessment and make a determination, says DEA spokesperson Wade Sparks. “That would be the next step and that has always been historical the process,” Sparks tells The Verge.
 
Fucking DEA cunts. Seriously, laced with hydrocodone? First of all the only place someone is gonna get hydrocodone is through a doctor and second I guarantee the only deaths from "kratom" are from sketchy people or vendors lacing it with other opiates which is not a frequent occurance.
 
It’s funny how harmful he DEA’s policies are. Actually it’s mkre tragic than funny. Banning kratom will just increase the opioid problem. But they don’t really seem to give a shit about how their policies affect drug users. They’d be happy if drug users just killed themselves by using unsafe black market products. Their policies are well geared as such.
 
I hate when they angle stories to make it sound like kratom is toxic.
If a substance is adulterated and the adulterant causes death you cant blame the parent substance for toxic affects.

Heres a link to a great lecture about kratom from a little over a month ago by Dr. Chris McCurdy.
Hes a medicinal chemist, behavioral pharmacologist and pharmacist with over 20 years of research on drugs.

https://youtu.be/ypK-cvIpvcs

Its a little over an hour long but well worth a listen if youre interested in kratom research.
 
It’s funny how harmful he DEA’s policies are. Actually it’s mkre tragic than funny. Banning kratom will just increase the opioid problem. But they don’t really seem to give a shit about how their policies affect drug users. They’d be happy if drug users just killed themselves by using unsafe black market products. Their policies are well geared as such.

they only get more funding and power the worse the opioid problem gets. despite it being the result of their total failure at what they do. I can't think of a single organization or individual what is so rewarded for their failures as the DEA is.

I wonder if one day people that use drugs will ever be in congress...I mean you can be every type of white collar crirminal or rapist imaginable...but if you get caught with drugs or don't demonize them forget about ever having a say in law
 
"sigh* looks like it's that time again.

Banning kratom will kill a good number of people myself included because like many others I won't quit using and will move on to something stronger and more addictive and where I live that basically leaves fent as the only option.
 
It's all a part of the ruse : law and big pharma are industries and they've got their hands in each other's pockets tooooooo damn deeply to ever do what is right or best for the public.

Naturally they'll demonize kratom (by the way I read someplace that the dea came out apologizing for the reported "deaths by kratom" being a big fat lie ).....
They dont want ppl self-medicating. Period. If you self medicate, you'll bypass the doctors office (huge money comes in from your pocket n your insurance ) and you'll bypass the pharmacy (my God the money! A few months ago I was prescribed a med for irritable bowel. It was a 30-day supply. Fifteen hundred American silver cartwheels ). ....

If you effectively self medicate on an unscheduled substance then you just might not resort to..... oh say Illegal substances. Or criminal activity to obtain those substances. Therefore you bypass the Criminal justice system. (Huuuuuuuuuuge money there.)...

The Law + Big Pharma = Industry
. Industry's main reason for being is what? ......Revenue!

You get well on your own (with zero substance or a legal and available substance ) and the above industries make exactly zero dollars and zero cents off ya.

They do NOT want this. Period. It's also why Drug treatment is rarely properly or successfully done.... why mental health treatment is all pills pills pills and no real recovery.... If you think about it, it all goes back to Industry. Revenue . To Hell with the People.
 
Well if the DEA would quit taking away our opioids and doctors would actually prescribe them we wouldn't have to self medicate. Personally I don't give a fuck who gets my money I just need to be on something daily. I'd gladly pay a Doctor/pharmacy for a running daily script of codeine/tramadol, doesn't even need to be a lot.
 
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Everyone including the mentally ill and terrorists can have automatic machine guns. But sick injured people can't have a plant which has never killed a single person in 100s of years of use.

FUCK AMERICA, seriously fuck this shithole
 
This is bad. The FDA is going to ramp up seizures at the border apparently. An outright schedule 1 ban will follow shortly
 
Read AKAs formal demand to recind against the FDA statement :

https://www.reddit.com/r/kratom/comments/7d5c1u/aka_news/?st=JA2MK0CK&sh=c73f945c

It's very well written and professional. I have some faith in the AKA now and am not wary of donating to them.

There is a new petition also on we the people but it's sort of misdirected and only has 60 Sig's right now.

The entire drug community needs to mobilize against this...I think the MJ community needs to be brought on board with this somehow. Does anyone think that's possible?
 
When I was in 10/10 pain this past summer from GI ulcers, my doctor prescribed me hydromorphone. He gave me as much as I wanted. After a month when the pain was still the same because I hadn't recovered yet, he decided out of nowhere that I was doing too much and reduced my prescription to an inadequate amount. He would not negotiate. He instead offered me tylenol with codeine which does not work because my body doesn't process tylenol correctly, besides which it's not enough to quell this kind of pain.

I warned my doctor that I would turn to street drugs if he did not help me, as I live very close to the opiate epicenter of my city. His response was that he was not responsible for my choices and he advised against that.

So I turned to kratom for the first time. I bought it legally in a store at a fair price.

These asshole doctors don't understand what it's like to live in this kind of pain. They don't realize how pain destroys you more than the drugs that stop pain ever could. Pain turns people into disabled monsters.

If kratom becomes illegal in the U.S. it will follow suit in Canada because the same corrupting industries operate here too. And if I end up in the same predicament again, next time I'll have to buy opiates from the street and risk killing myself in order to get the relief I need.

The DEA is just trying to fuel the prison-industrial complex all while filling the pockets of big pharma, as usual. It's so transparent, they don't even bother trying to cover up their lies anymore. Their policies turn pain patients into criminals all because we need relief.

This has to stop.
 
Maybe Big Pharma has figured out a way to cash in with this mitragynine pseudoindoxyl

Yeah, theres a drug in phase 3 trials now.
I made a post about it(search for "trevena") in the nuero/pharma discussion a few months ago when i was searching for new published studies.
 
When I was in 10/10 pain this past summer from GI ulcers, my doctor prescribed me hydromorphone. He gave me as much as I wanted. After a month when the pain was still the same because I hadn't recovered yet, he decided out of nowhere that I was doing too much and reduced my prescription to an inadequate amount. He would not negotiate. He instead offered me tylenol with codeine which does not work because my body doesn't process tylenol correctly, besides which it's not enough to quell this kind of pain.

I warned my doctor that I would turn to street drugs if he did not help me, as I live very close to the opiate epicenter of my city. His response was that he was not responsible for my choices and he advised against that.

So I turned to kratom for the first time. I bought it legally in a store at a fair price.

These asshole doctors don't understand what it's like to live in this kind of pain. They don't realize how pain destroys you more than the drugs that stop pain ever could. Pain turns people into disabled monsters.

If kratom becomes illegal in the U.S. it will follow suit in Canada because the same corrupting industries operate here too. And if I end up in the same predicament again, next time I'll have to buy opiates from the street and risk killing myself in order to get the relief I need.

The DEA is just trying to fuel the prison-industrial complex all while filling the pockets of big pharma, as usual. It's so transparent, they don't even bother trying to cover up their lies anymore. Their policies turn pain patients into criminals all because we need relief.

This has to stop.

I think doctors all realize how bad chronic pain i.s...they just have the DEA threatening them to lose their licence and jail. They studied for ten years to be a doctor...they don't play games with the DEAs threats...u need to realize who the real evil is it isn't docs
 
Gosh.
In response to Foreigner : I understand n agree with all you've stated; so damned sorry about that ulcer pain you talked about. I had that issue years ago but my ulcers repaired/ recovered over time with diet and acid-control medicine at the time. (That same medicine is now linked to kidney disease n stroke risks. Geezz).

Lucid: I also see where you're coming from . It would be nice however, if the Doctors would simply state professionally " this patient has This Problem therefore the use of This Drug IS warranted." How come they seemingly so Rarely do this?

The DEA (*don't get me wrong) is CERTAINLY a greater evil than old doctor whats-it who suddenly jerks the script outta the hands of the suffering patient (as you stated at least in Theory it's not always doctor whats-it's Fault as the DEA breathes down his neck , making license-grabbing threats. )

I think its disgusting however when its obvious a patient needs a med. And doc knows it too.
Why can't they have it?
Oh the DEA says no.
Why IS big Pharma producing the drugs if eventually nobody's allowed to have them? ?????


There's a force here we haven't discussed n i personally don't wanna be the one to bring it up.
Ah Hell who cares? if ya cant talk on BL where can ya talk?

Our own (USA ) govt does NOT have its hands Clean , as far as collaboration in BRINGING the (illegal) drugs into our borders n into our streets. This is my firm belief over many years of simply Being an American citizen n watching how these "drug epidemic scenarios " play out. The end result .... to see the end result you gotta look BACK at the start of the process n view the whole picture.
In the 90s--- mid 2000s (first decade therein) our American doctors were ridiculously generous in handing out opiate and benzo both medications. . . . Later things get scheduled by (you guessed it your friend n mine the good old dea ).... then docs refuse scripts. To allllllll these LITERALLY millions of ppl who actually medically need pain relief / crippling -anxiety relief . Even if their meds are gettin yanked, for God's sake the docs should TAPER THEM. but noooooo . Ppl were Dropped off their meds, labelled as dependant / addicted and marked down in the DEA system as DRUG SEEKERS

(PLEASE let there be Nobody try to argue this point with me by saying THAT is not what happened. I KNOW it for fact as it happened to me Personally in 2008. )

So for a great many individuals, the loss of access to meds their minds n bodies were accustomed to OF COURSE led to their securing the same or similar substances via now-illegal means. Some of the 'similar' substances of course being illegal to possess/ transport or even use.

Who benefits from any of this? A million ppl breaking the law?
I don't know that old doctor whats-it got any kickbacks..... he only benefits if he can convince the patient n their ins co to pay ungodly prices for the latest medical or mental health "treatment ", whatever he deems that to be *which happens to-
soooooo often be the latest greatest newest most expensive single -patented med on the big Pharma market.

A few years roll by n your ten o'clock news is saying we're in the midst of the Greatest Epidemic blah blah blah. ....
It's pretty glaringly obvious the bottom line is the dollar sign, Prison is AN INDUSTRY and nobody will convince me this point is incorrect. Not when I have seen actual murderers get an 8-year stretch while a girl selling Ice gets a 25-year federal jolt.

There have to be a dozen OTHER components to this "epidemic"as well that i have not mentioned. I just wanna make sure ppl see where iiiiiiiiiiiii am coming from. This component is real. It's true. It's ALL around us and my heart breaks n my stomach turns every goddam time a news report BLAMES THE PATIENTS WHO BECAME ADDICTED TO MEDS for our "nation's greatest crisis/ opioid epidemic "----- good thing I'm typing not voicing as I would vomit on the words.

It pisses me off so much.
Thanks America !
 
Only the military gets fully automatic weapons. No need to dis my homeland, just the government which we all hate (except the left, who want more of it).

Everyone including the mentally ill and terrorists can have automatic machine guns. But sick injured people can't have a plant which has never killed a single person in 100s of years of use.

FUCK AMERICA, seriously fuck this shithole
 
Only the military gets fully automatic weapons. No need to dis my homeland, just the government which we all hate (except the left, who want more of it).

That's not true. I mean, I'm on your side here. I hate foreigners saying shit about the US. But in most of the US so long as you fill out the forms for a class 3 from the ATF, get the tax stamp, and pay enough money for a small car and aren't a felon. You can own an automatic weapon.

Granted that's a lot harder than most ignorant people imagine, and a LOT more expensive and the legally owned automatic weapons make up virtually NONE of the gun related crime so you're entirely correct to say the suggestion is bullshit. But it's still not technically true that you can't legally own an automatic weapon. But then neither is it as easy or simple or relevant as many ignorant people imagine. Hell most ignorant people thing your average AR is an automatic. Most people who are Antigun know nothing about what they want to regulate.

And the most relevant point is that the legal automatic weapons in the US make up virtually zero of the entire gun crime stats. So there is no tangible problem. But still, it's not illegal. Not federally. You just need a class 3 from the aft and a lot of money and fairly clean record.

Still, I'm with you, I hate this anti us shit from foreigners who know much less about our culture and laws then they think they do, giving their opinions about shit they don't know about.

Pretty much everyone hates the US federal government. The liberals (the left might want more laws but they still usually hate the federal government) the conservatives, foreigners, it's one of the few things we all agree on, that the federal government sucks. We just differ on what we hate about it.

EDIT: It occurs to me now that I don't actually know that the poster isn't American. I guess I assumed because in my life that's usually the case. So I suppose you can take what I said in more general terms. Doesn't really matter. Point is it's neither illegal nor is there any reason the law should be changed once you get past "because I don't like it on principle" as a "good reason".

I suppose that's one unorthodox gun control solution. Do it how we handle automatic weapons. Just make it so expensive that only middle aged and older comfortably wealthy people have them and increase the paper work. Seems to work. Might not work as well when it becomes the only way to get a gun though.

Besides, this whole automatic weapon fear shit is a joke anyway. Semi autos are more dangerous in the hands of someone who doesn't know what they're doing anyway. That's why the marines took the full auto switch away from their rifles. Works a lot better at killing people when most of the bullets after the first couple aren't hitting the air several feet around the target.

Same with the 100 round magazines, they're a bit of a pretend problem too. Mainly cause they are totally unreliable. Ironically it could well be why some of the people from the aurora theater shooting in Colorado are alive.

But alas, details, real life, it's all so complicated. It's so much easier for people to just imagine the real world works likes a Hollywood action movie. You know, where automatics are both accurate and can keep firing for more than a couple seconds.
 
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Just for the record when I said "thanks America " I meant thanks corrupt govt of America for making Americans with illnesses / addiction suffer more: hence my whole post above.
I am American and I live in America.
 
Gun talk is off topic...Id invite you to start a thread in CEP. I'm not a gun expert but I do not believe one can own a fully automatic weapon. I have no idea what an "assault weapon" means, its an arbitrary nonspecific term used by those who dislike guns they know nothing about. But for realz, kratom....kratom. Fda and dea go to hell, lets eat some kratom.....

/me grabs some red, its friday.

Edit: damn...no reds. Ah well, time for medication and bed soon....early day tomorrow.
 
Sorry but you're mistaken.

In the United States owning an automatic firearm is legal federally. You just need a to fill out forms, not be a felon, and pay a lot of money.

Of course that's federally. Your state laws may vary.

I'm not sure where the term "assault weapon" came from in this thread. I didn't say it and I didn't see it mentioned until now.

There are laws that prohibit the importation of new automatic weapons for private ownership, so to buy one you have to get one from the existing circulation. So the total number in the private market has been fixed since 86. Which is what makes up most of the cost.

It's easy to mistakingly think it's illegal though. Since the total number in the private market is capped, buying even one can easily be 5-10 grand on the low side as I recall. So the only people who have them are comfortably wealthy middle and upper class collectors and gun nuts.

Another reason you could be forgiven for thinking they are illegal is most people would probably assume that if they were legal there would be a more visible effort to make them illegal. There isn't because as a result of the legal situation there is no problem with gun crime related to their legal status so there isn't much interest in doing anything about it. Besides, the market experiences a slow decline in availability with no new automatics entering the market. Add it all together and there is no interest in doing anything about it. There are more pressing real world concerns the Antigun lobby would prefer focusing on.
.

Just for the record when I said "thanks America " I meant thanks corrupt govt of America for making Americans with illnesses / addiction suffer more: hence my whole post above.
I am American and I live in America.

Yeah I realized I'd probably make a false assumption after I reread the posts.

There isn't much love for the federal government pretty much anywhere. I'm American but I live in Australia so I hear a lot of anti American sentiment which frustrates and pisses me off. I mean, apart from the fact that the people making the comments don't truly understand the more subtle complexities of our culture and so I often feel like they are mouthing off with uninformed opinions. There's also the fact that, if you hear someone saying shit about the society you come from, in some broad generalized sense, and you know that they know you're from that society yourself. It's hard not to feel like they are saying that shit about you specifically.

If someone around me says how Americans are crazy gun toting bible thumpers, and we both know I'm American. It's hard not to take it a little personally.

Your country of origin is a bit like your family. It's one thing when a family member talks smack about the family. But if someone else does it you wanna leap to their defense.

Still, it was a false assumption on my part. I hear a LOT of it living here so I'm probably a bit overly sensitive too it.
 
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