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  • Trip Reports Moderator: Xorkoth

IV [(MDMA/2C-E) + 2-Oxo-PCE] - Experienced - Am I experienced yet?

crOOk

Bluelighter
Joined
Dec 16, 2004
Messages
4,047
Introduction

Greetings everybody! The largest part of this report will consist of some background information before I will get to a short description of two particular dissociative experiences that took place very recently and could not have turned out any more differently.
I have had a very passionate relationship to dissociatives over what I believe to be a time span of 12 years by now and therefore feel motivated to give those less experienced some insight into the various opportunities and dangers their use poses. From all classes of drugs, DMT excluded, the nature of their effects has been the most difficult to grasp and put into words for me.

My relationship to dissociatives

I recently got married. After wandering through this world aimlessly for 32 years I have actually met a woman who I want to share my life with from the day I met her. She is the first partner I have ever told that I love her and the first woman who ever told me. Only my now seven year old daughter was ever more important to me than her. I never saw that coming, saw myself doomed to a life of loneliness and meaningless pseudo-romantic relationships. So be sure there is hope yet if you still have not found that someone. :)

This wonderful wife of mine is neither enjoying dissociates to a sufficient degree for accepting their side-effects nor is she willing to see me fucked out of my mind on them anymore. I do have to admit that I rarely manage to impress in terms of personality, intellect or eloquence after injecting substances belonging to this most spiritually stimulating class of drugs that I consider the undisputed champion of drug induced euphoria.
That means I reserve their use for the rare occasion that my heart is out of town for at least two consecutive days and am trying hard to make every one of these experience count in order to realize their full recreational potential.
Often times the trials turn out to have been a complete and utter waste of time and brain cells, but occasionally they do succeed and cause me to have my mind blown during and after these increasingly deep voyages into learning about the nature of consciousness and it's place in space and time. I sometimes wonder whether or not there are still religious realizations to be gained from those fortunate occasions. Experience has shown there always are, albeit at decreasing frequency.

Most of my spirituality has been founded based on these experiences, the rest being owed to DMT and (completely drug free) out-of-body experiences which preceding stages had haunted me on a weekly basis for almost a decade until the issue was entirely resolved in the most beautiful experience of my life that my first OBE was, only to never be seen again, but that is another story.

On the other hand, ketamine has been the singular stepping stone between my use psychedelic drugs and the more problematic drug use that has since been periodically serving as a way to deal with various aspects of life. My IV use has at times taken very ugly shapes and some of my lowest moments were spent in piles of bloody needles and household trash during extensive dissociative 'sessions'. They can be extremely addictive to some people. For others not so much - in fact most people don't even enjoy them. You were warned though.
Some of the danger is based on the uncontrollable urge to redose that I feel and the sheer lack of control over my body that follows those weak-willed and irresponsible The amnesia associated with high doses then causes me to keep redosing, akin to the mechanism by which people with a stash of benzos find themselves waking up at the foot of a staircase. I once managed to utter a cry for "HEPL§" to my now-wife via facebook when I found myself repeatedly coming to myself in 60 liters of spilled water, wondering who and where I am and why everything is wet. It is not solely for that incidence alone that my being alive is owed to a fortunate turn of events.

These substances can be absolutely wonderful, but they pose a lot of dangers and need to be treated with the greatest respect.

It may not seem that way, but I am doing my best to keep this short. :D

The choice of substance and dosage

All glutamatergic dissociatives are different from one another and have different things to offer. One will be very euphoric, another induces fear, confusion and dysphoria, but may at the same time cause much more profound experiences. One will allow you to move around at doses that induce amnesia, another will fuck your motor skills so royally that it makes Leonardo DiCaprio's staircase performance as Jordan Belfort in The Wolf of Wall Street seem like that of a world-renowned ballerina in the prime of her career.

These are some aspects of use that will have a strong influence on your dissociative journey:
- The substance's duration of effects and ratio of plateau to comedown duration. Longer dissociative experiences tend to let a person venture much further out into that which lies outside the spatiotemporal prison of his self. Frequent redoses increase the risk
- Route of administration, which can usually be put into linear order from least to most psychedelic. Your decision will usually be dictated by the rate of absorption of a given substance and ROA, it's metabolic fate in your body and your motive for using it.
- Interactions with your surroundings in the hours prior to the experience and state of mind. Which people have you socialized with? What kept your mind busy?
- Sensory input during the experience. Whether you lie in your very own cozy bed with the lights switched off or you are enjoying a cuddle puddle with a group of strangers in the meadows on a beautiful spring day will become very apparent long before you regain your sense of vision. The importance of your choice of music (or lack thereof) and your familiarity with it can not be stressed enough. Maybe you prefer hearing the birds chirping outside your window or you feel most comfortable depriving yourself of auditory input altogether.
- Dosage! The effects are guaranteed to change not only in intensity, but also in quality. A low dose will let you stay in touch with your surroundings, but go too high and you are left with nothing but amnesia. Some substances have a wider recreational window than others. Those with a diphenylethylamine core (e.g. Ephenidine and Diphenidine) are usually very forgiving in terms of causing dosage-related amnesia, but more frequently induce severe psychotic reactions. Ketamine and 2-Oxo-PCE tend to cause complete amnesia if you cross the threshold by just a few mg, but leave you disappointed with a side-effect laden yet lackluster intoxication if you shoot a few mg too low.
- Level of experience - I have read a few studies and talked to many people who report the effects of dissociatives becoming lackluster and diminishing throughout the years and partially irreversible tolerance becoming a problem. As for me, the effects have grown to become more and more profound whenever I do hit my sweet-spot despite allowing me to comprehend, remember and integrate parts of the experience better than I used to. I have come to be convinced that I have not built any quantitative tolerance at all throughout my 12 years of using them on a regular basis with experiences spaced apart anything from a week to six months and a few episodes of heavy daily use.
- Other psychoactive substances you are currently affected by - Many drugs' effects multiply with those of dissociatives. Strong caution is therefore advised and a strict dosage adjustment of both substances is required to gain the most from the experience. Psychedelics and MDMA come to mind, while stimulants can attenuate some of the after effects in my experience, but in turn often last multiple magnitudes longer than they usually would. The combination of serotonergic psychedelics and glutamatergic dissociatives is probably the most powerful recreational drug combination that is currently accessible to the general population. Many far reaching interactions with other classes of drugs are also known, so again: Great care is advised!

This goes especially for IV dosing. You may not be able to pull the needle out in time and if you attempt to redose your motor skills will be just as fucked as your vision, making hitting a vein let alone staying in it a real feat. I have personally injected 10ml propylene glycol paravasally without even realizing it, destroying a number of superficial veins in the area, among them my median cubital vein.

Experience I - Blackout

90mg 2-Oxo-PCE IV (25mg IV and roughly 3x20mg IM)
260mg MDMA IV (100mg IV and seemingly another 160mg god knows via which ROA)

I had been looking forward to this day for several weeks. My wife had to go abroad for a job for a total of two weeks, which left me with little to look forward to other than the long-anticipated intravenous administration on of 260mg MDMA (tested with GC/MS) in combination with a dose of 2-Oxo-PCE.

2-Oxo-PCE has hands down been my favourite disssociative due to the extremely euphoric and profoundly psychedelic effects it has on me.
Of all dissociatives I have injected it's speed of onset is matched only by ketamine and therefore provides an extremely powerful rush upon intravenous administration. Redosing is not a necessity due to it's much longer duration which is a huge plus. In terms of psychedelia and spiritual insights 2-Oxo-PCE has been much more impressive than ketamine. If ketamine was a bicycle, this one would be a sports car. It is almost as sedating as ketamine is, but not quite, making it easier to shut yourself off from your surroundings compared to more stimulating dissociatives, but also making spontaneous redosing more likely to occur with along with the chance to hurt yourself due to not being forced to remain stationary.

So I start preparing my shots:
15mg 2-Oxo-PCE and 100mg MDMA, sucked into the first syringe through a 220nm filter, butterfly attached for easier IV administration.
3 shots of 20mg

My wife keeps the material locked away from me and will only release small amounts to me. I would usually never keep more than 35mg 2-Oxo-PCE around due to my complete inability to keep myself from redosing too soon and too high. In this case I wanted to keep the option to dose again towards the second week of her absence, but by the time the long awaited syringe preparation had come, I 'decided' I'd make it a much longer session and keep 3x20mg instead of 3x7mg in the 3 other clean syringes I had, regular needles attached for IM use. Big mistake. I was actually still sober then. I should have known that the experience was destined to fail from that point on.

An earlier idea was to dose the MDMA and then later use the 2-Oxo-PCE towards the comedown which is the way to do it imho. Lack of self control got the better of me though.

I injected around 1pm and still remember the onset of the rush. MDMA has a very powerful rush in itself, but the 2-Oxo-PCE came through stronger than expected and quickly dominated.
I soon came to the conclusion that the effects were to weak and I would not hole. I went to the kitchen to redose, only to find the entire 260mg MDMA and 90mg 2-Oxo-PCE gone. 5 hours had passed. It was all gone. Not only must I have holed, but I must have shot far past my goal and ended up not remembering a single thing other than the initial 10 seconds of the first injection.

MDMA can be extremely sedating, even hypnogenic. Large doses will cause your language skills to malfunction and throw you into a state similar to SOREMP sleep (sleep onset REM sleep which allows for dreaming before fully drifting off to sleep). This state can usually not be remembered very well and can easily ruin an otherwise close to side effect-free experience.
That being said, getting the dosage right when administering both drugs simultaneously is very very difficult. Especially if the fiend in you keeps screaming for a rush of unseen intensity.

So, that's the end of the story. I experienced after effects until the next morning and was pissed at and disappointed of myself for days. Until I remembered I had once given a friend 30mg for him to use which he would give back to me before I had access to more...

Experience II - Bliss

<30mg 2-Oxo-PCE IV (<15mg IV and 2x <7.5mg IM)
2.2mg 2C-E IV

Not only did I he give me the PCE, but I also remembered I had some 2C-E lying around. I knew 2C-E combines very well with MXE and came to remember I had done it in combination with 2-Oxo-OCE before as well towards the tail end of the following experience. I am still uncertain whether my brain is playing tricks on me or I had actually tried the combination before. These tricks are also known as confabulations and are possibly caused by the inability to put events in chronological as often seen in patients with amnesia. More about this and where I place this change in perception.

I gave him the substance in liquid form and according to him it had lost 80% of it's volume since then. There was no salt sticking to the outside of the syringe, so there were probably still 30mg left inside the syringe.

The first dose of 50% of the 2-Oxo-PCE (15mg at the most) was injected intravenously with the 2.2mg 2C-E at midnight. What followed was one of the most euphoric and psychedelic dissociative experiences I have ever had. I later redosed the other 2x7.5mg 2-Oxo-PCE (spaced hours apart) and left the remaining 2C-E untouched. I got out of my bed roughly 8 hours later and was still experiencing heavy visuals at the 18 hour mark.

It was absolutely magical, everything that I have ever looked for in a dissociative experience. I am sorry about the lack of details, but I would not do the beauty of it justice. It is very difficult for me to put these journeys into words. It's really nothing one can be prepared for and in my experience it takes a very long time to reach the level of depth I have reached when using dissociatives these days, at the risk of sounding very cocky. Below is a short explanation of the outlook on the world that I gathered throughout my years of using my beloved spiritual little helpers.

Who am I?

It should impress as striking that dissociatives are known to possess the ability to interfere with a person's concept of time. The way I see it these drugs free me from the ties that bind me to experience time as a unidirectional stream instead of a dimension in which all moments exist simultaneously.

I've come to feel as an inseparable a part of this endless space time reality, but am inable to see the entirety of it. I interpret my consciousness as being a fraction of a universal consciousness that accompanies all matter. The high content of information in structures like nervous systems where countless particles work together to form a subunit inside another subunit inside another subunit of the universe causes peaks of consciousness around these systems, the same way a magnifying glass can pool light and thereby focus our sight to the area where the light is brightest, but keeping this area of focus separated from the rest of the light by an area of low light intensity.

Our bodies could therefore indeed be what captures our consciousness and so allows us to gain a sense of self and be an integral part of our ability to make decisions. My father once told me we would be unable to determine which of two particles of identical age will have decayed when their half life has passed, even if we could measure all the variables.
One of the particles however will be gone and an ultimately random basis for this seems unlikely to me , since it does not fit to the concept of self all humanity holds. If we perceive ourselves as decision makers and a process as elementary as radioactive decay is purely random, how then could we hold this foolish notion? I refuse to believe that because I long to feel the magic of life, I desire for my piece of consciousness to form this world we live in, to be creative and not predetermined. That also is a decision, not predetermination dictated by some kind of statistically irrelevant observations we have witnessed inside the tiny fraction of the universe we move in and therefore consider static laws.

What I think is that these 2 particles communicate with each other through space-time. That only together they decide when it is time for one to go. The more dynamic their cooperation is and the more there are of them, the more refined this communication is and the sharper the lines around our the respective consciousness cluster are. My body is able to pool the communication between the particles and that I believe is what I am. I am the sum of all these closely linked particles, which have gathered together according to the state of the world around my body's existence in space and time, thereby abiding certain universal habits we consider the laws of physics - really just the universe's current habits though determined by top down decision making of the larger systems we are encapsulated in - but still holding a creative power over itself.
When our nerve cells stop communicating the way they usually do, the consciousness blends with the larger consciousness encapsulating it. Just like a magnifying glass that loses it's refractive power when it turns to dust or even gas would allow the light to scatter again and rejoice with the rest of the light where a moment ago there was darkness forming a wall around these focussed rays when they were still pooled by the glass.

And here is where dissociatives come into play. Their name could not be more accurate. They prevent the particles that make up our body from communicating the way they usually do, causing dissociation. This frees the consciousness from the body and allows it to rejoice with the consciousness surrounding it where a moment ago there was a shadow of consciousness separating us from the collective when we were still a tiny unit of consciousness pooled by our brain.

Our consciousness is now not bound to the limited fraction of space-time our bodies exist in, but is free to join the next larger unit of consciousness, we are left to experience space and time to a larger extent, yet still far away from becoming stardust. Once our bodies die and become stardust, we can scale this concept up into infinity, we are finally everything again, in universal unity with everything there is in space-time, we are are now the ones dictating the "laws" of nature. And what better word would there be for this than god?

Now the closer we are to reaching unity, the further our ability to form memory in a chronological fashion will deteriorate. The fact that I am able to venture deeper and deeper into dissociative territory tells me there are ways to train your brain in chronological memory formation while pharmacological dissociation takes place. However sometimes there are glitches and access to other points in space-time remains in our brains. We may start thinking we have experienced something before, maybe this manifests as déjà-vus, maybe it manifests as confabulations of prior drug experiences like my knowledge of another 2C-E + 2-Oxo-PCE experience which may or may not be the very same experience I just described, which may also have happened in the past or will happen in the future or even happens in another dimension that my consciousness merged with.


Closing words

I want to stress that I consider the points I made towards the end are mere opinions and I don't want to force them on anyone. It would be of no use. I assume there are a lot of major flaws still left in my construct and it may not even make much sense to others. On the rare occasion that I do share my views, I usually get sceptical looks for it. Some people would impress me as worried I might be going manic again, others who know me less well just assume I'm on some drug crazed rant that is not even making sense in my own head. Those who know me well enough know it's all good, but it does cause some frustration to know that we are alone with our beliefs. We can talk about them, but no one will ever hold them in the same way.
However they still hold an enormous value for me. I cried a lot of tears while writing the last paragraphs because it is such an infinitely rewarding and beautiful experience to see how I have been slowly starting to make sense of my existence over the course of the past two decades. These theories are what I use to explain the entire world around me, from death over OBEs, dreams and deja-vus to drug experiences, the nature of the self, god and radioactive decay ;) but also to find peace with the notion that my body will eventually disintegrate and that those I love will one day have disintegrated.
These thoughts and beliefs are my main source of comfort and optimism.

That is one of the main reasons why I feel profoundly addicted to dissociatives, eventhough I only indulge in them relatively rarely these days. I actually feel as if my happiness depended on them. It's also been part of the reason why I am very slow to progress in life and have stopped looking for fulfillment in a career. Dissociative experiences have come to function as rocks that I can step onto while crossing over the river of life without ever having to learn how to swim. This is obviously not a good thing. But god oh god, do I love these little fuckers!

I have avoided to read into physics or philosophy throughout my life unless it was very hard to be avoided. I enjoy developing my religious convictions way too much to let someone else do the work. I suppose I am just saying this because with so little "success" to show for and assuming to be a disappointment to most people who have known me all my life, I am really proud of how I managed to develop my spiritual side, something I had never anticipated during my late youth before I learned about OBEs, DMT and ketamine.

I just checked and this post actually took me a full five hours to write. If you could gain anything whatsoever from it I ask you to please show some love and leave a reply because those are what keep me sharing my experiences with this wonderful community.

Much <3 to all of you!

Tagged by Xorkoth
substancecode_mdma
substancecode_empathogens
substancecode_2ce
substancecode_phenethylamines
substancecode_2oxopce
substancecode_achs
substancecode_dissociatives
_combo_
explevel_experienced
exptype_positive
exptype_glowing
roacode_iv
 
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Thanks for sharing and much love. This is a trip report written in a style all your own and I like how you've found words to describe the dissociative experience. It's reassuring to read that from the depths of your use you've found a modicum of balance. It makes me happy to hear. It gives hope to people like me who have struggled a bit to get off that train in spite getting clear signs it's time to live life and shine that light in the world. Best wishes.
 
Crook, i have lurked on bl for more than 10 years before actually signing up. I have posted on other forums over my journey, just not BL.
However, i do recall many hours of reading, appreciating, digesting and learning from your experiences, to apply to my own experiments.

Im very pleased you have someone special now btw.
Thanks for posting this trip report and all your other invaluable posts.
 
Thank you, thank you, thank you for this report.

Your writing style for experience reports makes so much more sense to me than any other I've ever read. And you're accurate, detailed, and very descriptive, again, in ways that make complete sense to me.

Thank you again, and kudos!
 
Whoooo, thank you guys. I'm very happy to hear all that. :) <3
 
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