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  • EADD Moderators: axe battler | Pissed_and_messed

EADD-Heroin-Discussion-v-XXIII-New shit - same old problems

No i's OK bcf it's a perfectly legitimate query to what sounds like counter-intuitive motivation.

You see - it is. I hate being a heroin addict, but the drug is lovely and I have never wanted to stop completely using it. It's heroin. It's recognised among the most addictive drugs in the world, alongside tobacco, and alcohol. It makes your behaviour irrational. I went around in circles for 10 years, spending periods of up to three years at a time in constant physical dependency, and periods one of which went up to 3 years without being physically dependant. But once it got me it got me - I never stopped using, the longest I went without was for around 5 months during the 3 year period but on average I had to have a sly pie at least once every 2 - 3 months just for satisfactions sake. I love the drugs effects, it's one of my favourite head spaces to be in, but it's unlike other quality drug experiences as it's just not compatible with social functioning, as you need nothing but the drug and yourself and so far as heroin goes, that's party time.

But I'm old and ugly enough now to realise you cannot have it both ways, and the only way to ultimately function and create one last chance for myself to rejoin society is to knock it on the head. But after spending a decade avoiding treatment so that I could always clean myself up from a straight cold turkey, something which while is vastly unpleasant, I have been able to do on many occasions and something I believe would be ultimately more difficult if not impossible to do from methadone. So, by avoiding getting a methadone script - I conned myself for years thinking that I had at least some control over when I need to stop using. I did - but what I never grasped is how to stop starting using again, as I have continued to chip even during long periods in which I have had no physical need for a habit. I'm so pathetic that I once went 8 days (at which point I generally feel 'back on my feet' and sober following a straight CT) cleaning myself up and naturally got some gear to celebrate (which was not unusual for one of my efforts) but on this occasion I didn't even get away with just a victory twist - I came into some money I was owed so I spent 3 days using which being that fragile meant that by day 4 I was more or less in full withdrawal again

So this time around, I'm a couple of years off 40, I had returned to find my family home in uproar so my mother now needs 24 hour care from either myself or my father due to 'challenging behaviours' that she displays following a long period of alcoholism, which had crept up so slowly over the years, it left her with some degree of brain atrophy that would have resulted in a Wernicke's encephalopathy / Korsakoff type illness had we not physically stopped her drinking. So, I decided to play the long game following my last relapse - surrender to treatment and ask for a reduction in order that I can be swapped over to buprenorphine. But the doctor kept me on a blocking dose of methadone for the best part of a year, as she could see that I was never going to stop using OT and I needed to learn the hard way, so that after enough money has been wasted on trying to get high when you can't it changed my behaviour surrounding the routine and amount of heroin I use.

So, when It reached the absolute minimum I could live with, they are now dropping my methadone dose continuously until the autumn, at which point they can swap me over to bupe - and once I'm stable on it they can continue to decrease until I get a place a residential rehabilitation unit I have been referred to and I have contact with already. It's a 14 week course during which time I'm hoping whatever clever CBT programme or brainwashing technique they have will be positive, productive and engaging and that it will result in a total change in my perspective on life. Because that is what it is going to take to stop me using heroin completely, and I believe that in over 95% of cases people who have had a dependency in the past simply cannot continue to use occasionally on an indefinite basis - even if you keep it up for years - i did - you will always and inevitably have a full relapse. I hope that I will achieve this result, as I can see no other option. If it does not change my way of thinking, then it will at least buy me a couple of months worth of life but nothing more as I can see myself at the moment waiting 6 months or so and thinking I can have a one off, which obviously isn't going to work. Either way once I'm on the Bupe I will be fully committed to this for at least the amount of time while it is in process - as I know that once I 'graduate' from the facilities course I will either go and use again and sooner or later relapse, or will never go near a crumb again. And it may have to result in the cessation of any unprescribed drugs hopefully with the possible exception of cannabis.

But until the day comes when I have to stop using I will probably carry in. I smoke most of my gear and always have done - but my tolerance is so high now that I will get through 5 - 8 bags on a session just to get it full on. But by shooting one first I can get away with using much less, as for instance I sparked last night after the two I tucked into while posting, leaving me with the majority left for the w/e which would also give me the room to have a trip or something a little more exotic as I have the perfect after-cushion. I have no life really, no friends I see on a regular basis, just here, my key worker and the adult training centre I use on a weekday to do online courses and to try and get out of this fucking house, as my mother is awful to live with due to her behaviour, and sometimes spending the weekend anaesthetised is the only way I can live here as I have no where else to go until my res. rehab placement is ready.
My money limits my use, so as it is for a fixed period of time, I'm not going to make anything worse at the moment by having a few bags twice a month, as one days use has never precipitated any extra w/d symptoms (unless I'm in the middle of doing a straight CT). My methadone dose has always held me just fine but the underlying fact that I want to get high, not 'stable' means that until this aspect of my thinking is addressed, I will continue to want too. I'm just in a position at the moment where I can actually manage my use (I now have such a splitting headache from feeling so high last night that the thought of a bag is making me feel sick at the moment - the sort of 'hangover' I would get from a heavy session during the chipping phases of my habit), but it is only due to current routine, financial situation and the possibility of a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. I know I would not be able to maintain this for ever without the amount I use or the amount I inject increasing, but once I'm down another 10ml (which should be by the end of September) and swap over to buprenorphine I will be stuck as I was before and will not be able to use while the taper Is in its most crucial phase.

I know it's silly and inadvisable and I need to consider making any further references to my use on here until this is all over and done with, but even if you cannot make head nor tail of any of the above BCF - it's heroin, it's really hard for me, in fact impossible, to motivate myself to stop taking it while I'm kept physically dependant on opiates / oids, so until such time as I'm ready for action I cannot see where the motivation will come from. All I know is that I'm using heroin way way less than I ever have done while remaining physically dependent, and that's going to have to be good enough for me now. I'll step my game up as and when I need to, which as I have been saying should be within the next 2 months -so realistically I may only be going back out to cop again 4 times or so anyway....

Mate thanks for the honesty in your post there, Totally empathise with lots of what you say, I understand the want/need to get away from the life as you are nearing 40 and wanting a chance of a normal few decades to maybe get a mrs and maybe a sprog, ya know, this is all a possibility to you now mate, personally think a sprog would be the kick in the arse needed to drop the cravings and need for a taste of that lifestyle every-so-often.
My mrs is hinting towards the similiar at the mo but truth be told I'm shitting myself at failing to be responsible :\

I am also thinking the cbt route will be the next step on my journey ( currently buckled on 110mg 'done, 40mg of amazing cambodian diaz anda ton of bongs of gorgeous bubbly maroc hasha nd some stinking critical kush and sheffield blue cheese (amazing strain if you aint heard of it, STINKS the house out!))

SOOO.. with that being said, I certainly ain't judging and knew what you mean with that itch that needs a scratching every so often, think the last bit of gear I smoked was bout 2 weeks or so ago,

The bit in bold sorta worries me mate, cuz my tolly on done is 70mg a day, but just got put on weekend takehomes, meaning sat sun and mon are takehome which means I can easily drop a few days dosing and use with hopefully good results, but the thought of picking up a set of pins from the needle exchange has crossed my mind a fair few times now :( hate to admit that but why not, tis the truth and I'd be only lying to myself by not mentioning it
 
I as recently admitted to hospital with a suspected OD! This wasnt the case, basically I was shattered from no sleep the previous night so was nodding a bit but all I had consumed was my prescribed dose of Oxy but this paramedic bird was insisting I had taken something else ffs, so I get into A and E and this young quack comes in with the paperwork from the paramedics, and he tells me that I have been diagnosed with a suspected overdose (I had gone in with bloody Pnuemonia ffs) I had had it badly with a collapsed lung, pneumothorax serious Pneumonia etc was a really close call on a life support machine 3 weeks with a tracheostomy on a ventilator;


Anyway i kept nodding off cause I was genuinely shattered from the lack of sleep the previous night, suddenly I wake up I felt like I was on fire! My feet were on fire and was in a FULL BLOWN RATTLE! which those of you that know, is a LOT worse than a H one on Oxy, The young quack had injected me with Narcon (Nalaxone) It was bloody horrendous! I had a right go at the quack for doing it to me then I get moved up to a ward at around 2 in the morning;




Before I went to sleep I tell the young quack not to give me any more of that nasty stuff, Next thing I wake up at around 7am same burning feeling, the git had done it again, I asked him why and he said that i was uncocious and unresponsive (A load of crap) I just think he wanted to play God and pump me full of that Narcon, (Lucky I had a few contins stashed in a latex glove lol) he had also put me on this drip so I asked the nurse what it was and she told me it was an infusion of Narcon like 1mm per hour over 24hrs, I disconnected the poxy thing and let it run on the floor!

Typical horrendous NHS "healthcare" before brexit i beleive the eu should have set some standard for healthare, the nhs care is simplly unacceptable.
 
Heroin never worked for me, it just induces soe weird blank feeling.
Is it possible it only works after taking it several times? amp only worked for me the10th time i took it
 
Opiates may just not be for you. I wasn't much of a fan at first, but with enough persistence it gets its hooks into you...
 
Heroin never worked for me, it just induces soe weird blank feeling.
Is it possible it only works after taking it several times? amp only worked for me the10th time i took it

If you feel this way then for the love of jeebus don't keep at it till you 'get a taste for it'

chalk it down as a drug that isn't for you n don';t even think bout using again, once it get's it's hooks in it's an utter cunt to shake yourself free of it
 
The bit in bold sorta worries me mate, cuz my tolly on done is 70mg a day, but just got put on weekend takehomes, meaning sat sun and mon are takehome which means I can easily drop a few days dosing and use with hopefully good results, but the thought of picking up a set of pins from the needle exchange has crossed my mind a fair few times now :( hate to admit that but why not, tis the truth and I'd be only lying to myself by not mentioning it

Exactly - while there is a plan in place my veins should be able to hold out, but if I ever find myself relapsing in the future I need to watch it. I've never injected that much, because as much as I enjoy the extra effect via this ROA I have never felt too comfortable doing it, I do not like sticking needles in myself, my wiring is tiny so it would only take a couple of weeks of continuous use for me to completely loose access to my arms and even by keeping it too a minimum and employing every HR tech. possible (testing the heroins strength by smoking a little first, shoot your dose in 2 halves etc) you still are at some degree of risk from infection and blood borne virus's and are still at greater risk of overdose than you would be from smoking it.

I only ever bothered once in a while, as my heroin ritual is still centred around chasing it and only started to shoot more regularly to try and punch through the methadone blockade. But if I ever come off the rails again, I will now have the temptation of that particular ROA to resist even If I re -succumb to the drug, and if I don't I would not survive for any more than 6 months of dependency again. If you have never bothered until now - don't - just use it as I did (only without injecting as well) - skip your w/e t/h's once every 2 or 3 weeks, so that missing Saturday and Sunday you should find that with a moderately decent amount of moderately decent gear to smoke (about half a gram) you can still have the occasional lush - nod from late on the Sunday afternoon onwards until you have to take your Monday glug, and it will leave you with a small but useful amount of spare meth in case there is ever a problem where to you cannot get to the chemist one day or any other cock up, but not so much as you will have litres of this gorgeous but highly dangerous drug.
 
Exactly - while there is a plan in place my veins should be able to hold out, but if I ever find myself relapsing in the future I need to watch it. I've never injected that much, because as much as I enjoy the extra effect via this ROA I have never felt too comfortable doing it, I do not like sticking needles in myself, my wiring is tiny so it would only take a couple of weeks of continuous use for me to completely loose access to my arms and even by keeping it too a minimum and employing every HR tech. possible (testing the heroins strength by smoking a little first, shoot your dose in 2 halves etc) you still are at some degree of risk from infection and blood borne virus's and are still at greater risk of overdose than you would be from smoking it.

I only ever bothered once in a while, as my heroin ritual is still centred around chasing it and only started to shoot more regularly to try and punch through the methadone blockade. But if I ever come off the rails again, I will now have the temptation of that particular ROA to resist even If I re -succumb to the drug, and if I don't I would not survive for any more than 6 months of dependency again. If you have never bothered until now - don't - just use it as I did (only without injecting as well) - skip your w/e t/h's once every 2 or 3 weeks, so that missing Saturday and Sunday you should find that with a moderately decent amount of moderately decent gear to smoke (about half a gram) you can still have the occasional lush - nod from late on the Sunday afternoon onwards until you have to take your Monday glug, and it will leave you with a small but useful amount of spare meth in case there is ever a problem where to you cannot get to the chemist one day or any other cock up, but not so much as you will have litres of this gorgeous but highly dangerous drug.

So much of this is like my exact views on the whole needle use in general, I am not comfortable doing it, in my mind i have always held the iv user as the last stop on the journey to full on hell, so I have managed not to succumb to it so far, I have smoked a gram of legit high high high grade gear, stuff that has had others drooling off 0.2 smoked and i just got a slight mood elevation, enough for my bro to actually clock it, even though I didn't feel high as I should've, and that was a whole fucking g smoked in bout 9 hours, thats where the needle idea is creeping in, just enough to punch past the meth then smoke to the desired level of gouch...

This whole paragraph above is what I wanna get away from though, I am using meth to get off gear, not to hold me then find ways to get a sneaky hit here n there, totally defeating the purpose :(

You know though, I am having a great time tonight on a few cans of lager, 60mg diaz (pukka ones from cambodia) 110mg 'done (drank a glug extra from me takehomes) and many bongs of lush weeed n hash, feeling pretty damn great if I'm honest, euphoria level on par with smack before methadone, seriously!
 
So much of this is like my exact views on the whole needle use in general, I am not comfortable doing it, in my mind i have always held the iv user as the last stop on the journey to full on hell, so I have managed not to succumb to it so far, I have smoked a gram of legit high high high grade gear, stuff that has had others drooling off 0.2 smoked and i just got a slight mood elevation, enough for my bro to actually clock it, even though I didn't feel high as I should've, and that was a whole fucking g smoked in bout 9 hours, thats where the needle idea is creeping in, just enough to punch past the meth then smoke to the desired level of gouch...

This whole paragraph above is what I wanna get away from though, I am using meth to get off gear, not to hold me then find ways to get a sneaky hit here n there, totally defeating the purpose :(

You know though, I am having a great time tonight on a few cans of lager, 60mg diaz (pukka ones from cambodia) 110mg 'done (drank a glug extra from me takehomes) and many bongs of lush weeed n hash, feeling pretty damn great if I'm honest, euphoria level on par with smack before methadone, seriously!

Once you let the needle in, eventually nothing else will do...
 
Best thing for methadone withdrawl without the actual getting hold of methadone :/ ? I mean someone who is on 160 mg injectables a day and seeing someone colding on one of the days isn't nice to see :(
 
I started occasionally hitting up recently after20+ years of smoking, 2 main reasons are my chest is starting to give me grief and my tolerance is through the roof.
Thankfully Iv got a shit Iv technique so im looking at that as a blessing really , so Iv been plugging gear a couple times a week instead.
I'm looking at everything as a sign that's it's about time I sort my self out, going to get myself on a maintenance,private fuck all that daily pick up with judgmental chemists. ( you know the cunts )

BCF just my 2 pence mate but try holding off hitting up ,give plugging ago first. Good luck though son.
 
Thanks for your reply mate,
Yeah that's another reason too, cuz of the tolerance meth causes, I end up blasting thru a gram of pukka gear that would usually have lasted me a few days pre methadone

I've been on dailies since i started getting 'done but just got put on weekend takehomes from giving clean piss, so friday I collect sat,sun and mon's doses, plus the pharmacy i go has this sexy lil brunette portuguese pharmacist, cute as hell lol, so I'm not too fussed having to go in n collect it ;)
 
I've just had the last of my withdrawals from subs,

My regular H dealer hasn't been taking calls fortunately for me since Tuesday so I managed to get through it without relapsing.. for now anyway, I've got the (probably temporary) sense that if I even do a small amount now i'm going to be fucked come Monday when I have to deal with some awkward client at work. If i'm lucky I can stave it off for a couple of weeks and get my head straight. I can't imagine i'll stop doing it for good though, I enjoy it too much and opiates seem to be hardwired in my head now after five years fucking with them.

I've had really unsettling dreams the last few days, which usually begin with me making up/meeting with some old friend/relationship I haven't seen in years, then end with me either trying to meet a dealer/getting weird H that was black with red stripes in it/uncovering a previously forgotten cache of gear in my room.. I always wake up right before I have it when the straws in my mouth or the needle about to go in my arm. And in the dreams the dealers are acquainted with my friends and family, one involved a family Christmas where for desert everyone was smoking brown lines off foil, including my dead grandparents.
 
I would get the dreams too. Over time they got less and less frequent the more my priorities changed, but would still poke their head in during times of stress.

the brain is far more neuroplastic than you think man, you're not hard wired to be on opiates.

i know it feels like you have fuck all choice when your own subconscious is fucking with you in your sleep, but you don't have to act on it. You can take back control.
 
I would get the dreams too. Over time they got less and less frequent the more my priorities changed, but would still poke their head in during times of stress.

the brain is far more neuroplastic than you think man, you're not hard wired to be on opiates.

i know it feels like you have fuck all choice when your own subconscious is fucking with you in your sleep, but you don't have to act on it. You can take back control.

That's true, I used my words wrong their, it doesn't really compare with some of the people I know who have 25+years of addiction under their belts. My outlook on drugs has completely shifted to say when I was 20 and did stimulants every weekend, I don't think I could be bothered to go out of my way to get anything that wasn't an opiate or benzo (and then only as a reprieve from withdrawal). There doesn't seem any point as even when I've tried stimulants I used to like (speed mainly and mdma) and it's been good, when I'm high on it it pails to even a few lines of poor quality gear in my mind and doesn't quite have the earthy feel to it.
 
If you wanna get off opiates completely then it'll happen when you start to think of them the same way you do with stims, i.e. the high isn't worth it anymore. What it takes to get you there depends on your own life circumstances though.

When I have used any opiates in the past 3 years, it just doesn't have the same appeal as it used to. I used to love them, think they were the perfect drug. But I was just seriously miserable and they helped like nothing else could. Now that my head is in a better place, where I have hope that I have a future in life that doesn't involve them - they just don't give me that much relief at all.

I still smoke cannabis on an almost daily basis, really helps me unwind and helps with sleep and cravings too. And as far as habits go it really isn't that bad to swap to from harder stuff.

I've also had a few (a lot of) psychedelic trips the past couple of years - which have helped cement in my mind the self-destructiveness my addiction was and how it really didn't make me happy at all, and how much better off I am without it - I was simply punishing myself / hurting myself and suffering for no reason. To deal with shit that other people had done to me. Which stopped me from having a life at all. Also close friends losing their lives to it is a kick of reality in the teeth.

It's still early days so of course opiates are still gonna have some appeal for you - i still get the dreams 3 years on.

I firmly believe that people should be given diamorphine scripts in this country if that's what they want - it's their choice, it's their lives and their bodies. I just think that people get into it out of anxiety / depression / trauma / abuse and dealing with those issues can be done, people just need to feel empowered and supported rather than stigmatised or told once a junkie always a junkie etc

/rant over.
 
Cannabinoids make rodents atleast more sensitive to a drug cue, eg something that reminds you of your drug use making you want them again, so everyone should keep in mind cannabis use might hinder recovery.

Same for nicotine which sensitizes the da system which plays a major role in addiction.

Ive allways been a a advocare as controlled prescriptions as the first step for drug addiction, eg like oxycodone a few times a day which you have to pick up 3 times a week from a pharmacy.

I wholehearthly aree with you, drug use should be a possible things that can be prescribed, eg like dexamphetamine in controlled doses instead of speed abuse for as long a patient want, i dont see this as medically incorrect if it causes improvement.
 
Yeah, there's only a very small group of people who get a diamorphine script in the UK - I had a junkie acquaintance who was put on MST for maintenance, but he would still end up shooting the pills into his groin / or trading them with me for heroin instead :\

He would've been the perfect candidate for a diamorphine script, years of dependancy and IV use, tried every treatment, several rehabs, but they just reserve it for a select few. So he ends up shooting pills into his groin without a micron filter, because the government and politicians can't get over their moral high ground of drugs are bad mmkay. It's been proven to work in places like switzerland and netherlands. The UK could do with handing some out instead of dishing methadone by the gallon.
 
Today all I had was half a tenners bag, and cause am with my missus I couldn't smoke it so I snorted it, got a pure baby habit but can't believe I feel a charge out it!! Have been dropping wads of yellows tho
 
Not a 'rant', this is extremely true.

If you wanna get off opiates completely then it'll happen when you start to think of them the same way you do with stims, i.e. the high isn't worth it anymore. What it takes to get you there depends on your own life circumstances though.

When I have used any opiates in the past 3 years, it just doesn't have the same appeal as it used to. I used to love them, think they were the perfect drug. But I was just seriously miserable and they helped like nothing else could. Now that my head is in a better place, where I have hope that I have a future in life that doesn't involve them - they just don't give me that much relief at all.

I still smoke cannabis on an almost daily basis, really helps me unwind and helps with sleep and cravings too. And as far as habits go it really isn't that bad to swap to from harder stuff.

I've also had a few (a lot of) psychedelic trips the past couple of years - which have helped cement in my mind the self-destructiveness my addiction was and how it really didn't make me happy at all, and how much better off I am without it - I was simply punishing myself / hurting myself and suffering for no reason. To deal with shit that other people had done to me. Which stopped me from having a life at all. Also close friends losing their lives to it is a kick of reality in the teeth.

It's still early days so of course opiates are still gonna have some appeal for you - i still get the dreams 3 years on.

I firmly believe that people should be given diamorphine scripts in this country if that's what they want - it's their choice, it's their lives and their bodies. I just think that people get into it out of anxiety / depression / trauma / abuse and dealing with those issues can be done, people just need to feel empowered and supported rather than stigmatised or told once a junkie always a junkie etc

/rant over.
 
ugh hey
back from a week(ish) tolerance break, its not the wd's that are the worst thing for me, its that feeling that life is just so bland and unfulfilling without b
luckily i'm subbed upto my balls rn, but i have gone cold turkey many times before

sidenote; yep, no more hypnic jerks while ive been off!
 
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