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  • Trip Reports Moderator: Xorkoth

Opium - First Time - Ex-heroin addict tries opium

burn out

Bluelighter
Joined
Nov 11, 2006
Messages
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I recently had the good fortune to sample some indian opium. I can't believe how different it was to heroin. It felt like more like an entheogen, a divine plant, than a painkiller (although it does kill pain). I now understand what Thomas Dequncey was speaking about, when he called it the "celestial drug" that orders the faculties. I never experienced these magical, entheogenic effects with heroin or pharmy opiates. I did get a taste of them from pod tea and poppy seed tea but somehow those highs felt dirty in comparison to this opium. It felt so much more refined, elegant, alive, trippy in a way that is not often discussed on this forum in reference to opiates.

I've pretty much concluded that all plant "drugs" are (or can be) entheogens, medicines and tools for self exploration and the idea that some of them (psychedelics) are for this purpose but others are simply narcotics or "drugs of abuse" is false. The fact that you can become addicted to opium, is simply one of it's lessons. It's part of its curriculum just as a very humbling psychological experience on mushrooms is part of their curriculum.

So what lessons does opium have to teach us? Well, it showed me that the source of all true joy, hope and inspiration lies within me only separated from my conscious awareness by the veil of the mind and the physical frame. Opium dissolves this barrier, allowing the pain-ridden mortal self to commune with the eternal bliss of the Spirit. But in addition to merely showing me this as a pure insight or new piece of information, it actually felt as though the opium was working to re-order my faculties so that they might be put back into harmony with this dance of celestial delight. My mind remained quite clear and awake , while my pain was numbed just enough to allow me to go deeper into my feeling states without too much resistance. Overall, there seemed to be a steadying/grounding effect on my consciousness.

All in all, it was simply brilliant and I look forward to future experimentation.

I would now like to rant for a minute about the drug war. The drug war has effectively taken this medicine out of our hands and replaced it with dangerous pharmaceutical opiates like fentanyl, heroin, oxycodone, etc. I am not against the use of heroin, it is an excellent painkiller. But its also much less of an entheogen and much more a drug of abuse than its natural counter part. Heroin has no balance. Its too easy to do too much, get totally blasted and jack up your tolerance. Low doses of heroin wear off quick and are not particularly enjoyable (in my experience). Opium would be virtually impossible to accidentally overdose on except by the most irresponsible of users. It is so better and fuller (more satisfying) of an experience that causes much less desire to redose. It just makes you content to be as you are, rather than chase a rush/high which is where heroin use often leads.

but rather than keep us safe the drug war has actually popularized more potent and harmful drugs.

Tagged by Xorkoth
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What was your ROA? Smoked? Oral?

I'd still be careful if I were you - agreed it's a lot less harmful than smack, but you will still end up with a habit / withdrawals after a while of continuous use.

I've only tried it once and to me it mostly just felt like codeine and morphine...I didn't get any trippy effects from it.
 
Smoked. I'm not afraid of becoming addicted to it at this point, because for one I don't have a steady source and for two I am already dependent on 6 grams of kratom per day. At this point in my life, I am so tired of being on the kratom that I honestly would not mind trading my kratom dependency for an opium dependency or at the very least going back and forth.
 
Ah, I took it orally, perhaps smoking it is better.

I can see where you're coming from with regards to Kratom vs Opium and with the drug war rant. I believe people should be able to do whatever they want with their bodies. If opiates are the only thing that help someone get through the day then they should be allowed to have it.
 
It's hard to just switch back and forth from Kratom to Opium.
Your tolerance will increase rapidly when you use Opium to where Kratom will no longer have any effects.
I was like you, I was taking 10 grams every 5 hours of Kratom to hold me, and then switched to Fu-F and U-47700 (attempted to just switch back and forth).
It did not end so well.
At least, I am clean from Kratom and all other opiates, including Research Chemicals.

Best of luck.
 
i dunno about that w0wmg i used to switch back and forth between kratom and heroin and as long as i didn't stay on heroin too many days in a row i had little problems switching back and heroin is a lot stronger than opium. this opium i had, while very enjoyable, did not get me very opiated at all. no pinned pupils. how did you get off kratom?

i meant to ask what is a typical opium dose, oral and smoked?
 
Careful man, opiates are opiates, even though I agree opium (the full spectrum of plant alkaloids) is better. In fact, the full spectrum of plant alkaloids generally tends to be a more complete and content-filled experience than one isolated alkaloid, with any of the plant drugs.

In any case though, it's still very addictive both physically and mentally. Actually, for me, moreso. When I was on opiates, I eventually settled on poppy tea, which is oral opium, just a way to get it legally without actually sourcing opium. I was cripplingly addicted to it. I preferred the high of it to every other form of opiate including heroin, because like you say, it's better, a more complete experience, a warmer and more soul-opening thing. But I was still badly addicted and it still crumbled my life to the ground. Tread very cautiously. I finally got off opiates ~2.5 years ago and I've just decided to never do an opiate again. Not worth the chance I will slide back down there. I don't feel like I would, but to me, since I was an opiate addict before, playing with opiates again is playing with fire. To me it's an unacceptable risk. What's some pleasurable experiences compared to slipping back down the addiction slope? The best thing that could happen is you'd have some pleasurable experiences that leave you no better off than you were. The worst thing that could happen, which is IMO quite likely, is another full-blown addiction you'll have to claw your way back out of through intense amounts of suffering.
 
I'm already there Xorkoth, if I was totally clean from opiates I'd agree with you not worth the risk. Thats part of why I was excited to try opium now, while still dependent on kratom.

I think kratom is a wonderful plant, but after being on it for years now it has me hooked just as bad as opiates in some ways. I get terrible withdrawals when I try to stop. I feel like its going to take intense amounts of suffering for me to get off it, which I very much want to do.

I only got to experience pods a few times because I got into opiates right when pods got banned from ebay and became ridiculously expensive. I liked them better than heroin also, but heroin being cheaper, the lure of the needle and that rush vs having to prepare the pods and drink tea kept me from seeking alternatives.
 
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Have you tried separating withdrawing from the opioid effects of kratom from the reuptake inhibiting effects? I mean, I can imagine after such a long time it might be like coming off effexor and opioids at the same time. Opium contains *mostly* morphine, not sure what minor / trace alkaloids cause it to be so physical.. not sure what you might use to switch to in order to first withdraw from the reuptake inhibition, but that could make it doable.

[ive been dependent on opium, after first ramping up to it with oxy]
 
I am planning to attempt to withdraw with the aid of opiates soon, I have one 8 mg suboxone and my plan is to take a strong opiate the first 2-3 days and no kratom, then get on the sub and taper down to microdoses and quit. My hope is I will be able to avoid all the kratom withdrawal and only deal with minor opiate withdrawal, but I am sure it will still be bad after being on some sort of opioid for so long.

I know it sounds crazy to use opiates to withdraw from kratom, but it might just be crazy enough to work. I once very nearly got off kratom using micro doses of hydromorphone but unfortunately relapsed shortly after I was in the clear. Now my kratom addiction has gotten so bad that microdoses of opiates do not mitigate it, which is why I plan on using a strong dose the first few days and then switching to sub.
 
i find kratom very magical in the sense of a strong contentedness even after the peaks effects with interesting CEVs. i take 7grams bali once a week. i use it to keep me away from opiates. vicodin gave me the taste of the beast already. unlike kratom, vicodin, leaves a nasty irritability and insomnia after the peak effects wear off ime.
 
I get irritable from opiates but not kratom myself. its really better in many respects and it took me years of daily use to develop such a dependency where now I find it so hard to stop.
 
It's a plant (leaves from a tree found in Thailand/Indonesia and other pacific islands) which has alkaloids that, while being closer in structure to tryptamines, hit various opiate receptors including the mu opiate receptor (which is what all the strong opiates hit which is responsible for the strong effects people look for in them).

I know it sounds crazy to use opiates to withdraw from kratom, but it might just be crazy enough to work. I once very nearly got off kratom using micro doses of hydromorphone but unfortunately relapsed shortly after I was in the clear. Now my kratom addiction has gotten so bad that microdoses of opiates do not mitigate it, which is why I plan on using a strong dose the first few days and then switching to sub.

I actually did this (sort of) successfully once. I was addicted to kratom for 7 years and I wanted to get off, so I tried poppy seed tea. my plan was to take it when withdrawing, then wait as long as I could and take it again, and if necessary, again, and then stop, simply to avoid withdrawals. Well, it actually worked pretty well. I took it once, then a full 2 days later I was feeling withdrawals again so I took it again. 2 days after that I felt only very light, lingering traces of kratom withdrawals. I went another few days and then "rewarded" myself for my success by doing poppy tea "one more time". And you know the rest of the story. The problem was I liked the poppy tea high WAY more than the kratom high (actually my early kratom experiences remain my favorite opiate experiences to date, but after 7 years of 3-5 times a day I was barely getting high from kratom anymore).

I find kratom withdrawal more mild than full opiate withdrawal in some ways, and worse in some ways. I didn't feel like I had the flu from kratom, nor was I nauseous, but the anxiety and depression were as bad. The feeling of discomfort in my body was worse, specifically the restlessness... the restless feelings were far worse than they were from any other opiate I've withdrawn from. You know the restless legs from opiate withdrawal? Well I hate that feeling so bad, it's the worst part of it for me, that feeling you can't be comfortable for one split second, you can't sleep, etc. Kratom went far beyond restless legs, my whole body was restless, especially my legs and arms. I would lay in bed for 4-5 night in a row, utterly unable to sleep, thrashing constantly. Sometimes I would punch myself in the legs as hard as I could over and over just so they'd go numb for 60 seconds and I could just lay there semi-comfortably for that brief period of time. I'd scream and cry eventually. Usually that's what would do me in and make me slip... after 4 or 5 days of no sleep shit would get really bad and I'd give in so I could sleep a night.

SO GLAD opiates are behind me...
 
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Yes I get the same exact same thing, I thrash about in bed all night long restless with my body aching when I dont take kratom. Its not nearly as bad as tryign to quit a huge dope habit cold turkey, but I do think its worse than coming off a small amount of opiates which is why I am planning to do something like what you did. I cant afford another major opiate addiction, so I dont really have much to lose. I mean if it ended up with me just getting hooked on opiates I'd just go back to kratom cause its cheaper and be back where I am.
 
man, get some proglumide! It helps so much w/PAWS and withdrawal. also tianeptine really helps krat withdrawal, but obviously to be used sparingly. I just made it off a couple year kratom habit and it's doable. Oh, I also found GREAT SUCCESS using sodium ascorbate. 4g vitamin C, runny nose etc. gone.
 
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