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What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

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Le Junk

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Feb 8, 2004
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NOTE: A handy draft summary (work-in-progress) of some of the key content covered in this thread can be accessed ⫸HERE⫷



Let me first give you a little background. I'm 51 years old and started doing ecstasy the last year it was legal in 1985. Needless to say the legal ecstasy from the so called "Dallas Group" was nothing short of spectacular. In 1988 I made a connection with someone from the San Francisco area who was in the production field of making MDMA. I have maintained that friendship and connection ever since with only small periods of downtime. The MDMA I get from him is an extremely fine bleach white crystalline powder that is fluffy and lays just like snow. The high from this MDMA takes about 10-15 minutes to take effect and the high is always the same. An extremely smooth come up followed by excessive love and empathy. You will literally melt into the person you're with and sex is out of this world. Touch and feel is heavenly. All you want to do is touch and feel on the person youre with and tell them how beautiful they are and how much you love them etc. There are massive eye wiggles and conversation flows like new born buddas. The come down is just as smooth as the come up. It drops you off just like a feather and sleep comes like a baby. The next day is nothing short of spectacular. You wake up feeling anti-depressed and chatty. You'll want to talk on the phone, visit friends or just drive around and enjoy the day with the top down. It's all I've ever known as an MDMA experience.

Now that brings me to modern day MDMA. There was a period back in the early 2000's when my connection was down and I scored pills from a local guy. They were great and with some very small exceptions, nearly as good as my crystalline powder. But once again I've been forced to score something locally and the stuff is just plain crap. And I mean crap. I've done both the orange Tesla's and the red Supremes. Absolutely awful, but from reading the trip reports on Pillreports, you would have thought they were the best ever. They're actually anything but. I had both of these pills tested on ecstasydata and both came back as pure MDMA.

Both of them took about 30-40 minutes to kick in and when they did, there was a slight feeling of euphoria and empathy that quickly faded and from there on out it was just a fucked up buzz. There were eye wiggles, but I wasn't feeling good when they were happening. I became extremely tired and kind of gacked out. The high from these pills seemed to last forever, maybe just because they sucked so much. I felt like a crackhead on the comedown and the next day felt like a bad MDA hangover. There was no next day afterglow at all. Just a different kind of fucked up than the night before. And that lasted the entire next day. There is a HUGE giveaway that youre doing todays crappy MDMA. Your pupils will not dialate all the way to the very edge like old school ecstasy. With old school ecstasy your pupils consume literally all of the color in your eye with only a microscopic sliver of color left around the outer edge. With modern day ecstasy your pupils will only dialate to slightly beyond normal if at all. Thats a big giveaway youre doing new school MDMA junk.

Before you jump to the assumption that this Le Junk guy is just old, hes done way to much ecstasy over the course of his lifetime and this is just a matter of tolerance, please re-read my post stating that I still have access to old school MDMA that Ive had since the 1980s. So in one hand I have modern day lab tested MDMA crap and in the other hand, old school MDMA heaven. So tolerance is out the window. Moving forward...

My question is this. Is this the best there is out there today? And since both pills tested on ecstasydata as pure MDMA, what is wrong with MDMA production nowdays? Does anyone else feel what I'm talking about here? My setting is pretty much always the same so that's not it. I always hear people talk about the setting as if that's an issue. With the crystalline powder, it doesn't matter where I am, it's always great. But with these Supremes and Teslas, it's just a sub-par, little euphoria, no real love or empathy, fucked up kinda buzz. Let me put it this way, if this was all that was available to me, I'd quit taking MDMA altogether. Terrible!
 
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This has been a pretty common discussion since the early 2000s. I bumped the last thread has ecstasy disappeared as its a fairly good summary of several months discussion and theory.

You can also find detailed discussion re marquis and isomers, precursor etc in the EADD section regional pill discussion and reviews of Dutch pills and effects etc.

Your knowledge would be welcome to the discussion. Us old skoolers generally get "loss of magic" and "rose tinted glasses" but people are starting to realise that perhaps there is some mileage in the Mongy MDMA debate.
 
Le Junk said:
Let me first give you a little background. I'm 51 years old and started doing ecstasy the last year it was legal in 1985. Needless to say the legal ecstasy from the so called "Dallas Group" was nothing short of spectacular. In 1988 I made a connection with someone from the San Francisco area who was in the production field of making MDMA. I have maintained that friendship and connection ever since with only small periods of downtime. The MDMA I get from him is a bleach white crystalline powder that lays like snow. It's extremely fine in texture but lays fluffy just like snow. The high from this MDMA takes about 10-15 minutes to take effect and the high is always the same. An extremely smooth come up followed by excessive love and empathy. You will melt into the person you're with and sex is out of this world. Touch and feel is heavenly. Of course the eye wiggles and chattiness etc. The come down is just as smooth as the come up. It drops you off just like a feather and sleep comes like a baby. The next day is nothing short of spectacular. You wake up feeling anti-depressed and chatty. You'll want to talk on the phone, visit friends or just drive around and enjoy the day with the top down. It's all I've ever known as an MDMA experience.

Now that brings me to the current day street pills experience. There was a period back in the early 2000's when my connection was down and I scored pills from a local guy. They were great and with some very small exceptions, nearly as good as my crystalline powder. But once again I've been forced to score something locally and the stuff is just plain crap. And I mean crap. I've done both the orange Tesla's and the red Supremes. Absolutely awful, but from reading the trip reports on Pillreports, you would have thought they were the best ever. They're actually anything but.

Both of them took about 30-40 minutes to kick in and when they did, there was a slight feeling of euphoria and empathy that quickly faded and from there on out it was just a fucked up buzz. There were eye wiggles, but I wasn't feeling good when they were happening. I became extremely tired and kind of gacked out. They seemed to last forever, maybe just because they sucked so much. I felt like a crackhead on the comedown and the next day felt like a bad MDA hangover. No next day afterglow at all. Just a different kind of fucked up than the night before. And that lasted the entire next day.

My question is this. Is this the best there is out there today? And since both pills tested on ecstasydata as pure MDMA, what is wrong with MDMA production nowdays? Does anyone else feel what I'm talking about here? My setting is pretty much always the same so that's not it. I always hear people talk about the setting as if that's an issue. With the crystalline powder, it doesn't matter where I am, it's always great. But with these Supremes and Teslas, it's pretty much hell wherever I am. Let me put it this way, if this was all that was available to me, I'd quit taking MDMA altogether. Terrible!
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A lot of what's sold as MDMA/MDA these days or since the 90s/early 00s is anything but that, especially with pressed pills.

Did you test the pressed pills you bought? If you did not, it's no wonder why you get garbage pills and powders sold as MDMA/MDA.

A friend of mine took what he thought was MDA/MDMA but it turned out to be 2C-B which he was fine with.

Based on how you said that you felt the effects of the pills the next day it sounds as though you took some MDMA/MDA that had meth in it.

I've never taken MDMA or MDA as neither of them interested me, and I certainly would not get into taking either of them now. People I know who took MDMA/MDA when they were legal in the 70s and 80s said they have no interest in taking it today.
 
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I think its all non-sense. Ive had incredible rolls from pills produced in the last year. Mis-information. Maybe you arent getting the bomb quality you seek now?

****2019 edit: Im wrong and this thread is onto something. When i made this comment i was still getting really good stuff, smelly, strong loving stuff. My most recent posts now reflect what i see now.***
 
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I have to say I've had some mind blowing and some disgusting rolls from MDMA that have all been from lab tested powders. I think really it either has to be down to set/setting and tolerance issues (which I think are surprisingly and broadly important with MDMA), or the racemic mixture theory suggested above, due to alternate precursors. Though some of the shitty rolls were from MDMA that I'm certain was produced via safrole oil, so who knows.
 
epic11 said:
I think its all non-sense. Ive had incredible rolls from pills produced in the last year. Mis-information. Maybe you arent getting the bomb quality you seek now?
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I think it's all relative to whether or not you've ever actually done excellent quality MDMA or not. If the only thing you've done is current day MDMA and the quality is consistent with these lab tested Supremes and Tesla's that I've referred too, then you may think you've done incredible rolls, but you indeed have not. Now I'm not saying that you personally haven't done excellent quality rolls. That's not what I'm saying, but I'm sure you understand that.

Let me put it this way. If you don't feel strong love and empathy the entire night from taking your lab tested MDMA, you're doing bad MDMA. If you have a bad come down the night of taking your lab tested MDMA, you're doing bad MDMA. If you feel like crap the following day after doing your lab tested MDMA, you're doing bad MDMA. That pretty much sums it up.

It's unfortunate that the quality of these lab tested pure MDMA pills is so painfully awful compared to this white crystalline powder that I thankfully have once again. To compare the quality of the two would be insulting to the powder.

If this new precursor type of MDMA is the future of MDMA, I feel genuinely bad for its users.

Le Junk
 
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Itsgoneundertheboa said:
This has been a pretty common discussion since the early 2000s. I bumped the last thread has ecstasy disappeared as its a fairly good summary of several months discussion and theory.

You can also find detailed discussion re marquis and isomers, precursor etc in the EADD section regional pill discussion and reviews of Dutch pills and effects etc.

Your knowledge would be welcome to the discussion. Us old skoolers generally get "loss of magic" and "rose tinted glasses" but people are starting to realise that perhaps there is some mileage in the Mongy MDMA debate.
Click to expand...

Thank you. I will join the discussion as I'm sure you know as well as I do, it's not just us ;-)

Le Junk
 
consumer said:
It is a common complaint in EADD. The theory is the precursor being used by the dutch labs creates a different racemic mix of mdma which while being the same chemical is producing mongy non euphoric mdma.
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Surely MDMA would be MDMA? How can you have different qualities of the same compound?
 
Precisely, if it tests as purely MDMA then it's MDMA, there is nothing else to it. The racemic mixture theory is a possibility I suppose but my chemist friend seemed to think that any racemic compound will come out at roughly 50/50, give or take a little, regardless of precursors. I personally think it's all down to set/setting and also the hugely obvious fact that after you do MDMA a certain number of times, it does just become shit. I can attest to this personally because I had six experiences on the exact same lab tested batch in one year, the first three (my first 3 MDMA experiences ever) were MIND BLOWING, precisely how people described the 'good old MDMA'. However on the third time I overdosed slightly (only like 160mg compared to 120mg), and since then I have never really enjoyed MDMA, from any batch.
 
terarc said:
Precisely, if it tests as purely MDMA then it's MDMA, there is nothing else to it. The racemic mixture theory is a possibility I suppose but my chemist friend seemed to think that any racemic compound will come out at roughly 50/50, give or take a little, regardless of precursors. I personally think it's all down to set/setting and also the hugely obvious fact that after you do MDMA a certain number of times, it does just become shit. I can attest to this personally because I had six experiences on the exact same lab tested batch in one year, the first three (my first 3 MDMA experiences ever) were MIND BLOWING, precisely how people described the 'good old MDMA'. However on the third time I overdosed slightly (only like 160mg compared to 120mg), and since then I have never really enjoyed MDMA, from any batch.
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Trust me, they're completely different. My proof is simply these two samples I have right here in front of me. I have my white crystalline powder and red Supreme tabs. The red Supremes were ecstasydata lab tested as pure MDMA and were sent in by, how do I say this, someone that I know. I myself have done both and can tell you that to even try and compare the two would be insulting to the powder. Plain and simple, the red Supremes are unenjoyable and the white powder is nothing short of heavenly.

Example # 2. My neighbor, who's never done ecstasy in her life, was talked into doing the red Supremes by me when I was out of the powder. Afterwards, she said she would never do ecstasy again. She said it was nothing like I described it and it showed. She wasn't loved up, she was very introverted, she spent most of the night either puking or laying on the sofa. The next day she said she felt cracked out.

After a couple months, I was able to talk her into trying the powder with me. We were in the same exact setting as the time before. My place. This time she was in love, she was telling me things she'd never told anyone before, she couldn't stop rubbing on me, she must have told me she loved me 50 times, she said if the whole world was on this there would be no wars, we made love all night and the next day we went out to breakfast and came back home and continued making love.

They are not the same. I've been doing ecstasy since 1985 and can tell you with 1000% accuracy, they are not the same by a longshot. People keep talking about setting etc. That's the bullshit. If it's the real thing, it honestly doesn't matter where you are.

Le Junk

P.S. The difference is in the isomers.
 
Le Junk i love this thread. I first experienced MDXX circa 2000 and i still roll today. I remember reading threads a few years ago where you talk about how good coke left in the 90s. I always thought it made sense since i cant imagine all the rage for coke extending to whats available today. My first rolls i found out were MDA/MDMA mix pills. Have you considered if maybe the Dallas stuff was a mix as well?

Also mdma in a 15 year old body can feel alot more amazing than a 35 year old body. Its kinda something that will forever be a mystery since we cant go back and get a 1985 or 2000 sample of mdma. Would be a cool project to time capsule some pills for future rollers. Ha
 
I think it's way more likely that it's due to age and extent of use. It's too coincidental that it's only stimulant substances that mess with levels of neurotransmitters, rather than just agonise some receptors, that were 'better in the good old days'. Yeah ok most substances aren't that great quality but those with the connections for great quality stuff aren't moaning, other than about stimulants. It's well known that stimulant substances have massively diminishing returns and the brain doesn't respond as well to them after the first few exposures. The reason people could be finding MDMA less enjoyable more often now could just be that people are being more irresponsible and are taking higher doses at a greater frequency so this 'honeymoon period' is over before they ever knew it started.
 
Le Junk said:
Trust me, they're completely different. My proof is simply these two samples I have right here in front of me. I have my white crystalline powder and red Supreme tabs. The red Supremes were ecstasydata lab tested as pure MDMA and were sent in by, how do I say this, someone that I know. I myself have done both and can tell you that to even try and compare the two would be insulting to the powder. Plain and simple, the red Supremes are unenjoyable and the white powder is nothing short of heavenly.

Example # 2. My neighbor, who's never done ecstasy in her life, was talked into doing the red Supremes by me when I was out of the powder. Afterwards, she said she would never do ecstasy again. She said it was nothing like I described it and it showed. She wasn't loved up, she was very introverted, she spent most of the night either puking or laying on the sofa. The next day she said she felt cracked out.

After a couple months, I was able to talk her into trying the powder with me. We were in the same exact setting as the time before. My place. This time she was in love, she was telling me things she'd never told anyone before, she couldn't stop rubbing on me, she must have told me she loved me 50 times, she said if the whole world was on this there would be no wars, we made love all night and the next day we went out to breakfast and came back home and continued making love.

They are not the same. I've been doing ecstasy since 1985 and can tell you with 1000% accuracy, they are not the same by a longshot. People keep talking about setting etc. That's the bullshit. If it's the real thing, it honestly doesn't matter where you are.

Le Junk

P.S. The difference is in the isomers.
Click to expand...

It could be placebo. Or other factors. Aren't you married? What did your wife think of you having sex with your neighbor?

I've personally never used MDMA or MDA as they did not interest me and I preferred high doses of LSD and mushrooms.

When I was into stimulants I preferred to take small/moderate doses of Dexedrine or Adderall.
 
LSDiesel said:
Le Junk i love this thread. I first experienced MDXX circa 2000 and i still roll today. I remember reading threads a few years ago where you talk about how good coke left in the 90s. I always thought it made sense since i cant imagine all the rage for coke extending to whats available today. My first rolls i found out were MDA/MDMA mix pills. Have you considered if maybe the Dallas stuff was a mix as well?

Also mdma in a 15 year old body can feel alot more amazing than a 35 year old body. Its kinda something that will forever be a mystery since we cant go back and get a 1985 or 2000 sample of mdma. Would be a cool project to time capsule some pills for future rollers. Ha
Click to expand...

Yep, great coke definitely went the way of the dinosaur. And very similar to todays MDMA story, coke of the 70's-90's was fully oxidized thus the high from it was what dreams were made out of. Todays coke, though it still tests positive for cocaine, is not oxidized and contains 10-12 other alkaloids that alter and ruin the true cocaine high.

As with todays MDMA, the production has resulted in changes due to the lack of safrole which means MDMA thru a different synthesis. As a result, I believe the theory of todays MDMA favoring the R isomer over the S isomer. The result is a lackluster end product, though still MDMA compound, the high is nothing close to S isomer favored MDMA.

And the Dallas Groups product was pure MDMA, made correctly I might add ;-)
 
PriestTheyCalledHim said:
It could be placebo. Or other factors. Aren't you married? What did your wife think of you having sex with your neighbor?

I've personally never used MDMA or MDA as they did not interest me and I preferred high doses of LSD and mushrooms.

When I was into stimulants I preferred to take small/moderate doses of Dexedrine or Adderall.
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Lol, good observation my friend. I got divorced about 3 years ago. The neighbor had nothing to do with it. No placebo effect though. I have the two samples here with me now. Powder and Red Supremes. I've had plenty of friends try both and they all said they're like two completely different drugs. One said they were as similar as pot is to cocaine.
 
If a Marquis test showed dark purple to black for my MDMA crystal, does that mean there is definitely not any or at least not a lethal amount of PMA/PMMA in my MDMA?
 
It may help for a Mod to create a new Thread for no 13 baby.

The marquis is only a test to tell you what may be in the pill or crystal. Not what exactly or amount. Even with use of all other reagents there is no way to tell exactly what adulterants could be in a pill or crystal.

The premise behind the reagent test is simply to try and identify MDxx as an ingredient.

There are many substances that will turn a Marquis black / purple. A mix of PMA / PMMA / MDMA is impossible to spot with Marquis or any other reagent. Reagents have limitation.

Bunk police have just released a new test called the separation test, not personally tried as yet, which theoretically does allow you to identify the different ingredients in a pill or crystal. Again not an absolute in terms of % but a step forward at least in home test.
 
Le Junk said:
Yep, great coke definitely went the way of the dinosaur. And very similar to todays MDMA story, coke of the 70's-90's was fully oxidized thus the high from it was what dreams were made out of. Todays coke, though it still tests positive for cocaine, is not oxidized and contains 10-12 other alkaloids that alter and ruin the true cocaine high.

As with todays MDMA, the production has resulted in changes due to the lack of safrole which means MDMA thru a different synthesis. As a result, I believe the theory of todays MDMA favoring the R isomer over the S isomer. The result is a lackluster end product, though still MDMA compound, the high is nothing close to S isomer favored MDMA.

And the Dallas Groups product was pure MDMA, made correctly I might add ;-)
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So what about the MDMA I've taken which I know for a fact was made from safrole, and which was GC/MS tested as being solely MDMA HCl of high purity, but was disappointing in the same way you describe? And what about the fact that I and many others have had 'classic good old' MDMA experiences, and 'shitty modern' MDMA experiences from the exact same batch?

Sorry but the thread really amounts to nothing more than speculation and nostalgia from what I can tell.
 
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