What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

[JK25]

It is not the same standard quality round confex pills from Holland we used to get from 1999-2007 ish... Now it is double dips and disco biscuits and no two look the same. In my days all MDMA pills were exactly the same shape and size and only the stamp was different. White supermans were my favourite, took about 150-200 throughout end of school term in 2006 and march 2007.

 

[psy997]

Someone on reddit suggested an acetone wash to get rid of MDP2P and the like.

Pages and pages back a double solvent wash method was described by I can't remember who, he contributed quite a bit for a few pages, that sounded promising. Though it involves anhydrous isopropyl alcohol, if I'm not mistaken, which while claimed to be easily available re: pc/computer uses, I couldn't find easily with some preliminary searching.

It was acetone and the anhydrous (if anhydrous IPA is what it was...)

 

[G_Chem]

Awesome last few pages.. Definitely see if some of those more influential researchers have the time or ability to help us.

Yes if it's simply these residual oils causing problems then I believe a dried acetone wash alone could probably help a fair amount. The isopropyl recrystallization would be the icing on the cake but I'm sure there would be some notable differences with just the acetone wash. Just remember to dry it before use.

Do you have much of that MehDMA left Hilo where you could perform an experiment?

-GC

 

[G_Chem]

Awesome last few pages.. Definitely see if some of those more influential researchers have the time or ability to help us.

Yes if it's simply these residual oils causing problems then I believe a dried acetone wash alone could probably help a fair amount. The isopropyl recrystallization would be the icing on the cake but I'm sure there would be some notable differences with just the acetone wash. Just remember to dry it before use.

Do you have much of that MehDMA left Hilo where you could perform an experiment?

Oh also MDP2Pol is a precursor that is sometimes used in place of MDP2P. Certain reactions to get the intermediate before MDMA involve MDP2Pol instead. Mdp2pol is often, but not always, indicative of piperanol as the starting precursor over safrole. So often we have safrole -> MDp2p -> MDMA and piperanol -> MDP2Pol -> MDMA.

-GC

 

[Hilopsilo]

Awesome last few pages.. Definitely see if some of those more influential researchers have the time or ability to help us.

Yes if it's simply these residual oils causing problems then I believe a dried acetone wash alone could probably help a fair amount. The isopropyl recrystallization would be the icing on the cake but I'm sure there would be some notable differences with just the acetone wash. Just remember to dry it before use.

Do you have much of that MehDMA left Hilo where you could perform an experiment?

Oh also MDP2Pol is a precursor that is sometimes used in place of MDP2P. Certain reactions to get the intermediate before MDMA involve MDP2Pol instead. Mdp2pol is often, but not always, indicative of piperanol as the starting precursor over safrole. So often we have safrole -> MDp2p -> MDMA and piperanol -> MDP2Pol -> MDMA.

-GC

I need to get my terminology straight, piperanol = PMK glycidate? I was under the impression the beginning is either safrole or PMK glycidate

Yeah I'd love to do something useful with it lol!

 

[Glubrahnum]

I need to get my terminology straight, piperanol = PMK glycidate? I was under the impression the beginning is either safrole or PMK glycidate

No, they are different compounds. Only trans-safrole and cis-safrole are different isomers of the same compound.

P.S.
There is no such compound as "piperanol".

Also, these compounds can have the MethyleneDioxy Bridge in the 2,3 position on the aromatic ring, so the number of possible precursor compounds doubles and the MDMA, that would be synthesized out of them, would be the 2,3-MDMA.

 

[Glubrahnum]

Ideally we would be able to determine an accessible and relatively easy method of purification so as to not just ditch MehDMA...

You can purify contaminated MDMA by exploiting different solubilities in two ways:
1) Dissolve the contaminated sample in a solvent, in which MDMA is insoluble, and keep the solids.
2) Dissolve the contaminated sample in a solvent, in which MDMA is soluble, and discard the solids. Evaporate the solvent containing the dissolved MDMA and crystallize it on a pane of glass.
3) Both of the above (for best results)

 

[NewTopic]

I just thought i'd bring this to your attention guys as it might be of interest to yourselves.

Last year I received some 'MDMA' which was orange, bright orange and it was kinda wet as well.
When I got this I thought no way is this MDMA, so I tested it all with my test kit and all come up for MDMA.
So I had shared this with friends as well as myself and we all had similar experiences.
Photo of 'MDMA': https://imgur.com/a/iHJjy
Photo of Home Test: https://imgur.com/a/buiKo

This stuff was 3x stronger then what I normally got, it was totally bizarre and I was convinced it wasn't MDMA.
I'm used to having 200-250 straight up and can handle it well for a relatively skinny person, but 70mg of this .. had me rolling for 6 hours or so, hard as well.

Someone offered me to send it to a lab for testing for free which I did comply.
The test results are here: https://www.ecstasydata.org/view.php?id=5777

Now to my complete amazement they also said it was MDMA.

My guess it could have just been a lot of precursor left over or something which probably wasn't good for the health i'll be honest but it was good!
So this might throw things off with the whole, precursor left over is a bad thing but maybe it's the type of precursor left that's the kicker. My presumption was that this was made from Safrole or something similar, I doubt PMK etc was used in this particular synth just by the look of it but that leads into a lot of things that the Safrole is stronger and possibly because of left over materials in the synth.

 

[Glubrahnum]

These ones caught my eye as interesting, could there possibly be a one step method from these substances, like a reduction for the N-tert-butoxycarbonyl-MDMA

Yes, removal of the t-BOC protective group can be done by a strong acid in one step and allegedly even by boiling in water at 100C. This removal yields MDMA ready for salting.
Racemicity of the MDMA could be an issue if t-BOC MDMA forms chiral enantiomers and is delivered in non-racemic form.

Now to my complete amazement they also said it was MDMA.

These labs do not routinely detect isomers and trace contaminants...even if they are very potent (i.e. active in the microgram range).

Last year I received some 'MDMA' which was orange, bright orange and it was kinda wet as well...
So this might throw things off with the whole, precursor left over is a bad thing but maybe it's the type of precursor left that's the kicker.

A sample that looks like that is just an indication that it wasn't purified well.
Besides the precursor chemicals, it can have any other intermediaries and reagents left in it. Your guess is as good as mine what they might be and what they do to the brain.

but that leads into a lot of things that the Safrole is stronger and possibly because of left over materials in the synth.

Yes, compounds remaining after the synth (not necessarily Safrole nor PMK) can be more potent than pure MDMA or can interact with MDMA, but that does not make them MDMA.

My presumption was that this was made from Safrole or something similar, I doubt PMK etc was used in this particular synth just by the look of it

That's too much of a presumption because most synths from Safrole go through the intermediate PMK step before getting to the MDMA stage.
In other words, most MDMA made from Safrole is most directly made from PMK.
Base PMK is a yellow, orange or brown oil, depending on purity, and has the sassy / anise smell. It is unstable at room temperature.

MDP2P oil (a.k.a. PMK)

P.S.
MDP2Pol is unstable at room temperature, too, and can decay to MDP1P upon oxidation.
Whether the MDP2P Glycidate spontaneously decays to MDP1P Glycidate in storage is a good question...
What is the result of an "MDMA synth" made with MDP1P as a precursor, is another can of worms...

 

[NewTopic]

P.S.
MDP2Pol is unstable at room temperature, too, and can decay to MDP1P upon oxidation.
Whether the MDP2P Glycidate spontaneously decays to MDP1P Glycidate in storage is a good question...
What is the result of an "MDMA synth" made with MDP1P as a precursor, is another can of worms...

This got me thinking, started to do a bit of research and found this:
"3,4-Methylenedioxypropiophenone, also known as 3,4-(Methylenedioxy)phenyl-1-propanone (MDP1P), is a phenylpropanoidfound in some plants of the genus Piper and is an isomer of 3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl-2-propanone (MDP2P)."

So, if this is an isomer of MDP2P does that mean doing a synth to MDMA would cause an in balance of the isomer ratios ?
Even if some of the compound converted to MDP1P, like a 70/30 ratio or something.

 

[G_Chem]

@NewTopic- I wonder if that MDMA was some Leuckart synthed stuff.. It matches the profile fairly well. Was there more energy to that batch? How else was the experience different from the norm?

@Glubra- Not sure why I can't spell piperonal right, gets me every time... But you bring up a good question, what would MDP1P produce?.. I used to know the answer to this, like 9-10yrs ago. I know where to look though but will take time, gotta dredge through the Hive to find it.

@Hilo- Piperonal (3,4-methylenedioxbenzaldeahyde) is not PMK glycidate (aka MDP2P glycidate.) Its a substance that can be made synthetically and is used in the fragrance industry similar to safrole.

-GC

 

[NewTopic]

@NewTopic- I wonder if that MDMA was some Leuckart synthed stuff.. It matches the profile fairly well. Was there more energy to that batch? How else was the experience different from the norm?

You know what your 100% right.
It was a bit different then normal, I felt a lot more of the speedy effects of MDMA, lot's of jaw clenching/chattering and dilated pupils and very body intense although I had more energy then I normally would I would say. Less Euphoria, also vomited heaps. All of these things are very unusual for me as MDMA I generally don't get much jaw clench anymore let alone chattering plus the energy. This with the small dose, that led me to think it was not MDMA.

Why would that particular synth cause this ?

 

[Hilopsilo]

You know what your 100% right.
It was a bit different then normal, I felt a lot more of the speedy effects of MDMA, lot's of jaw clenching/chattering and dilated pupils and very body intense although I had more energy then I normally would I would say. Less Euphoria, also vomited heaps. All of these things are very unusual for me as MDMA I generally don't get much jaw clench anymore let alone chattering plus the energy. This with the small dose, that led me to think it was not MDMA.

Why would that particular synth cause this ?

Weird, cause your description lines up with my experience with the MehDMA besides having more energy and puking; less euphoria, more jaw clench, speedy-chatty feeling, very body intense but not in the orgasmic MDMA way.

Kinda grasping at straws attempting to connect entire synthesis routes with a single anecdotal experience. I know anecdotes is really all we got, but I just think thats a bit of a stretch. You'd need way more people to try it in different settings and times I think to really nail down specific attributes of it.

Also that MDMA looks it would smell like Fanta lol

 

[NewTopic]

Weird, cause your description lines up with my experience with the MehDMA besides having more energy and puking; less euphoria, more jaw clench, speedy-chatty feeling, very body intense but not in the orgasmic MDMA way.

Kinda grasping at straws attempting to connect entire synthesis routes with a single anecdotal experience. I know anecdotes is really all we got, but I just think thats a bit of a stretch. You'd need way more people to try it in different settings and times I think to really nail down specific attributes of it.

Also that MDMA looks it would smell like Fanta lol

It was definitely missing the 'magical' happiness side, it just took me by surprise with the dosage.
I only had 70-80mg, but it was super strong and lasted longer then normal, struggled to sleep being honest.
A lot of people that I gave it too actually really liked it because it hit you hard, where as the other stuff normally you'd have to take a lot and it was just a casual roll. If I had taken 150-200mg, I don't know what would have happened honestly. I normally take 200-250mg straight up.

Completely understand, there isn't any facts to anything it's just he said she said at the end of the day but none the less it definitely is giving us lot's of ideas to explore which make sense in some ways. The synthesis route is an interesting one, I still think it's something to do with Isomers/Precursors but that's just an opinion. But that particular orange MDMA felt like one isomer over the other if you will.

I wish it smelled like Fanta!

 

[Glubrahnum]

So, if MDP1P is an isomer of MDP2P does that mean doing a synth to MDMA would cause an in balance of the isomer ratios ?
Even if some of the compound converted to MDP1P, like a 70/30 ratio or something.

It would make a difference because MDP2P aminates to MDMA and PDP1P does not.
However note that I have written that MDP2P is unstable at room temperature. I did not write that it spontaneously converts to MDP1P, like MDP2Pol does.
Maybe it does, I just don't have that piece of information.

 

[Glubrahnum]

But you bring up a good question, what would MDP1P produce?.. I used to know the answer to this, like 9-10yrs ago. I know where to look though but will take time, gotta dredge through the Hive to find it.

Since MDP1P has oxygen at the Beta carbon (MDP2P has it at the Alpha carbon), then if an amino group (NH) was added to it in the same position (red dot) as with the conventional MDMA synth when using the MDP2P as a precursor, then the result would be Methylone if that Beta oxygen was not reduced during the amination/methylation.

However, if that Beta oxygen was reduced then the result would be N,β-Me-MDPEA and/or β-Me-MDMA (not to be confused with βk-MDMA).

We can be pretty sure that if a sample contains MDP2Pol then some of it must have decayed to MDP1P upon oxidation and later that got aminated to Methylone or β-Me-MDMA or N,β-Me-MDPEA. In other words the presence of MDP2Pol mandates some presence of Methylone or β-Me-MDMA or N,β-Me-MDPEA.
How much, depends on how long the synth was sitting at the MDP2Pol stage and at what temperature (the lower the better).

The same might be true of MDP2P if it spontaneously decays to MDP1P. The same goes for the Glycidate...

 

[NewTopic]

So can I just confirm what your saying.

That MDP2Pol does decay to MDP1P upon oxidation, depending on a few factors and could be possible for MDP2P and Clycidate versions ?

If you did a synth and some of precursor ended up into MDP1P, let's say 20% converted over.
Would this mean when doing the synth to MDMA, it would cause MDMA and Methylone to both form in the one crystal ?

 

[Glubrahnum]

That MDP2Pol does decay to MDP1P upon oxidation, depending on a few factors and could be possible for MDP2P and Clycidate versions ?

Yes

If you did a synth and some of precursor ended up into MDP1P, let's say 20% converted over.
Would this mean when doing the synth to MDMA, it would cause MDMA and Methylone to both form in the one crystal ?

Yes.
Also, besides Methylone, the β-Me-MDMA and N,β-Me-MDPEA can be co-formed in the end product, depending on the reaction conditions.

P.S.
N,β-Me-MDPEA would be undetectable by underivatized GC/MS analysis using cheap columns, because it is an isobary of MDMA (has the same molar mass). There is a paper, that was discussed in this thread, which shows simple GC/MS has difficulties distinguishing MDMA isobaries.

 

[Hilopsilo]

But wouldn't any significant amount of methylone in a sample of MDMA be easily tested for?

But for the undetectable stuff you've listed here as well as the 23 compounds post you made, hypothetically speaking, the sample of MehDMA I sent in that was 85% MDMA, the other 15% could potentially be any of these compounds? Or would those compounds be "hiding" as part of the 85% MDMA?

Basically, I'm wondering if GC/MS would mistake these compounds for MDMA, or simply be unable to pick them up (hence 15% unaccounted for in my sample)

 

[Glubrahnum]

Methylone and β-Me-MDMA should be detected in significant amounts even by a simple MS because they are heaver than MDMA.
N,β-Me-MDPEA would be mistaken for the MDMA because it has the same molar mass and is a positional isomer.