What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

[Le Junk]

^ lol. I thought it is proven speed or at least amphetamine sulphate quality is nowhere to that of the late 80 early 90s?

I've said it once so I'll say it again this thread isn't MDMA was so much better in the old days it's more - there is a remarkable difference in MDMA today even when said MDMA comes back as pure. But everyone appears to not want to actually read context and make presumption.

Although maybe Le Junk is doing a mc fee as the pill he got tested changed from a tesla into a supreme over the course of a couple of weeks? ����

Lol, I said I had both the Teslas and the red Supremes on hand. But the only one I actually sent in for testing is the red Supreme

 

[Le Junk]

[MENTION=145156]LeJunk[/MENTION] , haven't seen you post in a long time .

I thought the same thing ( ate my first roll around 94 in S. Louisiana ) so I took my holland import pills and powder and stored them away . Roughly 24 months of sobriety later and still none of the true rolling feeling that you describe. I really miss that clean, floating on air , loved up roll . The day after was always my favorite !

I do think age and stress does effect our serotonin levels . However , I don't here anyone describe rolling like pre 2000. I would trade all my personal stash for just 2 of those rolls !

Agreed 100%! I always see people describing they're comedowns on todays lab tested stuff as sketchy, trouble sleeping etc. On the old school stuff there was never any bad comedowns, no cracked out feelings, you always fell asleep like a baby and the next day was always incredible. I don't see anyone talking like that about todays stuff.

 

[Le Junk]

The orange teslas were ok, but I can assure you they are definitely nowhere near as good as the mitzubishes I had in 97. I found one a few weeks ago in an old mix cd, and the experience was equally as blissful as it was almost 20 years ago. So there goes your brain chemistry is different etc etc as you get older and all that bullshit.
Here are the differences -
Mitzubishes - huge pupils, blissed out feeling ... on top of world, extroverted and wanting to chat to everybody
Teslas - slightly dilated pupils, slight euphoria, relaxed feeling, slept like a baby. However did not particularly feel loved up or extroverted like on the mitzubishes.
However, I slept like a baby on the teslas and didn't feel cracked out at all, but the snapchats felt like a meth comedown (I stupidly took three of those because they didn't seem to be working, and all I got was a speedy buzz) All of my pills tested very well with marquis, and I don't believe my teslas were copycats as they had that trademark glow under uv light and tested purple with marquis.

Lol, I remember those Mitsubishi's as well! I also took them in 97. And you are 100% correct sir. If you had 10 more of those bad boys, you could send to everyone in this thread that think it's all a placebo effect we're experiencing. You could change 10 peoples minds overnight. End of story.

 

[Kittycat5]

Mitsubishis are the only name I remember from that time period (if I think hard could probably come up with more). I guess I was lucky my MDMA experiences were at a good time as wading through all the junk out there today seems a hassle.

I cant really comment on todays quality as Ive done it once since 2001 but think the comedown thing is more related to bad pills (not MDMA is what I mean) floating around than the quality of the real thing.

 

[Biscuit]

For anyone still doubting the effects which changing the isometric ratio of the S and R isomers in MDMA is going to have, I found this on a web page that had collated a lot of information about phenylethylamines:

http://www.slideshare.net/RyanHemming/the-chemistry-of-mdma-and-various-other-phenethylamines

Some people are throwing around the idea of a non 50 50 enantiomeric ratio. This could only happen in most clandestine synths if you have something chiral (an impurity) causing one of the reactions to preferably form either enantiomer. This is much more likely in the safrole synth I would have to guess, maybe there is some other chiral compound that gets distilled with safrol oil (not chiral) and causes an excess of R or S to be formed. Maybe a reagent use in the synth is chiral (which I doubt since its all very simple chemistry)

I agree with you in principle, however, as has been discussed ad nauseam on here, a new pre-precursor is being used which is chiral and which may well produce non-racemic MDMA if the manufacturers are not first completely extracting and purifying the ketone precursor (this being the immediate precursor to MDMA in virtually all known methods of manufacture, including that which originally starts out with safrole). The other possibility is that when completing the reductive amination of the ketone precursor into MDMA, the manufacturers are now utilising a novel stereoselective catalyst which favours the production of one MDMA isomer over the other; or the continued use of one of the more "ordinary" catalysts/reducing reagents in conjunction with the new chiral pre-precursor, has ended up producing the very same effect (perhaps an entirely unexpected outcome).

The increase in the dosages of these pills is not a coincidence either, something which the above image confirms seems very likely due to the MDMA containing a much greater proportion of the "much less potent" R isomer over the S.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

There is one flaw in Le Junks science approach and that is dose. Dose appears to be not controlled in his experiments.

This. Also one being in powder form and one in pill form (even if chewed a little it will still absorb different and contain filler). Also the assumption that the crystalline powder contains nothing other than MDMA is merely an assumption isn't it? Has it been tested recently?

I sent my POS red Supreme into ecstasydata for lab testing. It came back as 100% pure MDMA

No it didn't. ecstasydata doesn't ever give purity percentages, they are not allowed to by law. All the results said was that it contains MDMA. They dissolve the sample you send in and all sugars, salts, metals, binders/fillers, dyes, etc are excluded from the analysis. If the results just say "MDMA" that only means that there was some MDMA in the pills and no other drugs out of the drugs they are able to detect.

 

[terarc]

This entire thread means nothing at all until someone can get two samples of MDMA, one of this supposedly superior type and one of the inferior type (how do we even decide this in the first place without involving some pre-existing personal preference?) ... then to get someone to dose out each one, adjusted for relative purity of the samples, so the two contain the exact same amount of MDMA.HCl, and have someone try them out double-blind so they don't know which one they're taking. Even then we're gonna need at least a 3 month gap between to ensure the first doesn't affect the second and actually it could be difficult to determine the exact amount of time needed so they don't affect each other at all. It could end up needing such a long gap that then the individual's life having moved on by however long could affect the experience too.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

For anyone still doubting the effects which changing the isometric ratio of the S and R isomers in MDMA is going to have, I found this on a web page that had collated a lot of information about phenylethylamines:

http://www.slideshare.net/RyanHemming/the-chemistry-of-mdma-and-various-other-phenethylamines


I agree with you in principle, however, as has been discussed ad nauseam on here, a new pre-precursor is being used which is chiral and which may well produce non-racemic MDMA if the manufacturers are not first completely extracting and purifying the ketone precursor (this being the immediate precursor to MDMA in virtually all known methods of manufacture, including that which originally starts out with safrole). The other possibility is that when completing the reductive amination of the ketone precursor into MDMA, the manufacturers are now utilising a novel stereoselective catalyst which favours the production of one MDMA isomer over the other; or the continued use of one of the more "ordinary" catalysts/reducing reagents in conjunction with the new chiral pre-precursor, has ended up producing the very same effect (perhaps an entirely unexpected outcome).

The increase in the dosages of these pills is not a coincidence either, something which the above image confirms seems very likely due to the MDMA containing a much greater proportion of the "much less potent" R isomer over the S.

I wasn't aware of that new precursor until now but I see what you are saying. an enantioselective catalyst for the reductive amination seems overkill for a clandestine synth...but maybe someone can suggest a cheap common one that in existence that might be a candidate for this possibility? I think the possibility of a non enantioselective reductive amination catalyst doing something with a chiral material from the precursor like u said is more likely. otherwise if the cat itself was enantioselective why couldn't they just pick the chirality that will give the stronger mdma....not the weaker one like its producing....might be a clue that the ligand could be something that cheaply found in one chirality and not the other if this is the case.

All someone has to do is run one of these new pills through a chiral column and tell us the result...i'm sure there are people on here that have access to one and a pill. sadly I have neither these days.

 

[Brenner]

For anyone still doubting the effects which changing the isometric ratio of the S and R isomers in MDMA is going to have, I found this on a web page that had collated a lot of information about phenylethylamines:

http://www.slideshare.net/RyanHemming/the-chemistry-of-mdma-and-various-other-phenethylamines

Excellent post, this would explain why I just don't see those scenes from the 90s anymore where people literally "have" to dance and cant stop moving. The R isomer today is much more of a psychedelic where as the S isomer or racemate mixtures had the stimulant effect too, presumably releasing dopamine etc.

We need racemate or S isomer!!

Also a very good read: http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/shulgin/adsarchive/isomers.htm

 

[maddee2145]

The orange teslas were ok, but I can assure you they are definitely nowhere near as good as the mitzubishes I had in 97. I found one a few weeks ago in an old mix cd, and the experience was equally as blissful as it was almost 20 years ago. So there goes your brain chemistry is different etc etc as you get older and all that bullshit.
Here are the differences -
Mitzubishes - huge pupils, blissed out feeling ... on top of world, extroverted and wanting to chat to everybody
Teslas - slightly dilated pupils, slight euphoria, relaxed feeling, slept like a baby. However did not particularly feel loved up or extroverted like on the mitzubishes.
However, I slept like a baby on the teslas and didn't feel cracked out at all, but the snapchats felt like a meth comedown (I stupidly took three of those because they didn't seem to be working, and all I got was a speedy buzz) All of my pills tested very well with marquis, and I don't believe my teslas were copycats as they had that trademark glow under uv light and tested purple with marquis.

There are opinion around that back in 90s-00s there was actualy a mix of mda+mdma and those Mitsu too. However I can not say anything bad about quality of nowdays pills. Month ago was eating red coca-cola square wich can be divided into 3. Everything seems very good about it.

 

[maddee2145]

Excellent post, this would explain why I just don't see those scenes from the 90s anymore where people literally "have" to dance and cant stop moving. The R isomer today is much more of a psychedelic where as the S isomer or racemate mixtures had the stimulant effect too, presumably releasing dopamine etc.

We need racemate or S isomer!!

Oh yeah thats are really usefull. Thanks a lot bro.

 

[Le Junk]

This. Also one being in powder form and one in pill form (even if chewed a little it will still absorb different and contain filler). Also the assumption that the crystalline powder contains nothing other than MDMA is merely an assumption isn't it? Has it been tested recently?



No it didn't. ecstasydata doesn't ever give purity percentages, they are not allowed to by law. All the results said was that it contains MDMA. They dissolve the sample you send in and all sugars, salts, metals, binders/fillers, dyes, etc are excluded from the analysis. If the results just say "MDMA" that only means that there was some MDMA in the pills and no other drugs out of the drugs they are able to detect.

One, as biscuit said up above a few posts back, in addition to even much more useful information, they're not trying to do you a favor by increasing the MDMA mgs in current pills. There's a specific reason for it. It's to make up for a lack of potency.

In addressing your comments, yes, I have sent my powder into edata 3 times over the last 15 years or so. Same results everytime. MDMA only. Additionally, the high is the same exact high every single time. No surprises ever. Once you've done highly purified, correctly produced MDMA, the high is unmistakable. I wouldn't even need a test to tell me what I already know, though I did it anyway.

 

[Le Junk]

I wasn't aware of that new precursor until now but I see what you are saying. an enantioselective catalyst for the reductive amination seems overkill for a clandestine synth...but maybe someone can suggest a cheap common one that in existence that might be a candidate for this possibility? I think the possibility of a non enantioselective reductive amination catalyst doing something with a chiral material from the precursor like u said is more likely. otherwise if the cat itself was enantioselective why couldn't they just pick the chirality that will give the stronger mdma....not the weaker one like its producing....might be a clue that the ligand could be something that cheaply found in one chirality and not the other if this is the case.

All someone has to do is run one of these new pills through a chiral column and tell us the result...i'm sure there are people on here that have access to one and a pill. sadly I have neither these days.

I would gladly donate the pill to someone with a chiral column.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

One, as biscuit said up above a few posts back, in addition to even much more useful information, they're not trying to do you a favor by increasing the MDMA mgs in current pills. There's a specific reason for it. It's to make up for a lack of potency.

In addressing your comments, yes, I have sent my powder into edata 3 times over the last 15 years or so. Same results everytime. MDMA only. Additionally, the high is the same exact high every single time. No surprises ever. Once you've done highly purified, correctly produced MDMA, the high is unmistakable. I wouldn't even need a test to tell me what I already know, though I did it anyway.

What makes you so confident that current pills have a high quantity of MDMA in them? I'm not yet convinced that these weren't just weak pills.

 

[Brenner]

I would gladly donate the pill to someone with a chiral column.

You'd need to donate the pill AND a sample of the better quality MDMA so we can see the difference in result

 

[oldskoolroller]

Something else about modern day mdma . People used to never " loose the magic " . Watched numerous people eat tabs every weekend for years straight, and always roll every time .

 

[somnilicious]

^ I used to roll every weekend and I most certainly lost the magic. Admittedly abused the hell out of MDMA. It took about 8-12 mths of every weekend abuse before it happened. If I haven't used any MDMA in 16 yrs would I be able to roll again?

 

[oldskoolroller]

[MENTION=253200]somnilicious[/MENTION] , I don't know . I took a 2 year break with a 1 year break before that . Depends on wether you get real mdma , or not . If you decide to roll again please let us know . I would be great to hear if it compares to 16 years ago . That would help with this debate .

 

[consumer]

Ive taken probably over a thousand mdma doses. Since 1989. It still has the magic for me. Not everyone loses the magic

 

[Ashley]

Interesting excerpt from the MDMA entry in PiHKAL below, talking about MDP2P:

A word of caution is in order concerning the intermediate 3,4-methylene-dioxyphenylacetone, which has also been called piperonylacetone. A devilish ambiguity appeared in the commercial market for this compound, centered about its name. The controversy focused on the meaning of the prefix, piperonyl, which has two separate chemical definitions. Let me try to explain this fascinating chaos in non-chemical terms. Piperonyl is a term that has been used for a two-ring system (the methylenedioxyphenyl group) either without, or with, an extra carbon atom sticking off of the side of it. Thus, piperonylacetone can be piperonyl (the two-ring thing without the extra carbon atom attached) plus acetone (a three carbon chain thing); the total number of carbons sticking out, three. Or, piperonylacetone can be piperonyl (the two-ring thing but with the extra carbon atom attached) plus acetone (a three carbon chain thing); the total number of carbons sticking out, four.

Does this make sense?

The three carbon sticking out job gives rise to MDA and to MDMA and to many homologues that are interesting materials discussed at length in these Book II comments. This is the usual item of commerce, available from both domestic and foreign suppliers. But the four-carbon sticking out job will produce totally weird stuff without any apparent relationship to psychedelics, psychoactives or psychotropics whatsoever. I know of one chemical supply house which supplied the weird compound, and they never did acknowledge their unusual use of the term piperonyl. There is a simple difference of properties which might be of value. The three carbon (correct) ketone is an oil with a sassafras smell that is always yellow colored. The four carbon (incorrect) ketone has a weak terpene smell and is white and crystalline. There should be no difficulties in distinguishing these two compounds. But unprincipled charlatans can always add mineral oil and butter yellow to otherwise white solids to make them into yellow oils. Caveat emptor.

My guess would be piperonal would be a more commonly used starting precursor than safrole these days due to its ease of synthesis, however I may be wrong.

A.