Mental Health Coming off Anti-psychotics Megathread

[jammin83]

I actually came back to this thread to talk about my psychiatrist wanting to reduce my antipsychotic dose by a third and my anxieties about whether I'll maintain my stability on a lower dose. But this kind of unhelpful and destructive advice makes it pretty clear that this isn't an appropriate forum for people with mental illness to seek support around medication changes.

Oh stop.

You know i like to give you a little shit now and then (somebody has to) but when it comes down to it, i gotta lotta love for you. This is the place for support or this whole thread is pretty much pointless and a waste of time. I'd like it to be a constructive conversation that provides tips on tapering, lowering dosage, etc, in addition to providing constructive support that is conducive to well being. We are peers at the end of the day and we should always support each other. This shit is hard, no matter how you cook it. I have a lot of empathy for people going through medication changes bc I know how hard it can be. Don't let one comment throw you off.

I think you raise a good point. Differences of opinion regarding treatment should be kept to the debate thread. People are hurting and angry. I was fucking mad man for a long time and im still a little cantankerous at times but things are improving for me. Anti-psychiatry sentiments happen. I would consider you a role model for this forum, so lets keep things moving in a good direction.

Were here for you and anybody who is going through this transition. Don't be shy now.

 

[SixBuckets]

Oh stop.

You know i like to give you a little shit now and then (somebody has to) but when it comes down to it, i gotta lotta love for you. This is the place for support or this whole thread is pretty much pointless and a waste of time. I'd like it to be a constructive conversation that provides tips on tapering, lowering dosage, etc, in addition to providing constructive support that is conducive to well being. We are peers at the end of the day and we should always support each other. This shit is hard, no matter how you cook it. I have a lot of empathy for people going through medication changes bc I know how hard it can be. Don't let one comment throw you off.

Thanks - I actually really appreciate this comment. You're right that it's a really sensitive time and it's easy to take things a little too much to heart.

I think you raise a good point. Differences of opinion regarding treatment should be kept to the debate thread.

I think it's fine to express an personal opinion but it becomes a problem when that strays into universalising your own experience or passing judgement on other people's experiences.

People are hurting and angry. I was fucking mad man for a long time and im still a little cantankerous at times but things are improving for me. Anti-psychiatry sentiments happen. I would consider you a role model for this forum, so lets keep things moving in a good direction.

Aw, thank you. That means a lot.

Were here for you and anybody who is going through this transition. Don't be shy now.

OK, so I've been stabilised on my mix for quite a few years now (lamotrigine, amisulpride, some sleeping meds, and diazepam as needed/very rarely). Unfortunately, I've developed the infamous prolactin problem that's fairly common with amisulpride and risperidone. Most doctors apart from my psychiatrist are saying "just change your meds", but my psychiatrist agrees with me that I'm unlikely to have such amazing results with a different antipsychotic, so changing medication should be the absolutely last option. He's suggested dropping from 300mg to 200mg and seeing if it makes a difference to my prolactin. He's left the timeline up to me, but thinks it would be a good idea to do the change before my endocrinologist appointment at the end of June.

Now, as I never tire of explaining to you all, I'm really high functioning these days - I work a full time workload at two jobs, study at university, sit on a couple of committees, do some volunteer work, and am in a ten year relationship, so I've probably got more crammed into my life than a lot of people who DON'T have mental illness to content with. It's an unfortunate fact that the more markers you have of being high functioning - high pressure job, ongoing education, stable romantic relationships, community obligations - the less capacity your life has to absorb you going batshit for a while. My mental health is really stable right now, but I'm worried it isn't as resilient as my psychiatrist thinks it is and the medication reduction will affect my job, studies, etc.

I guess I don't know until I try. Tips from anyone who's done an antipsychotic reduction while juggling work and/or study obligations would be greatly appreciated.

 

[jammin83]

Ho chi, quit censoring my shit dude. jeesus. I like my posts to remain pure.


6b, forgive me, im not super familiar with this particular AP. Don't believe its available in the US.

Looks like you are on a mediumish dose? Kind of a slutty binding profile, go easy. I would drop down in at least two steps spread out over a about 6 weeks but I get that urgency is key. Maybe you could try the drop right away and see how it goes but have a backup plan to do it a little slower. You also sound like you have a lot going on, so a drop that big might pose some problems. Anxiety would prob be the most prominent symptom I would think and maybe some nausea. If you can function ok on the lower dose that would be a good thing anyway.

With zyprexa, I didn't have too much trouble halving my dose from 20 mg to 10 mg. 20 mg is a max dose tho. I had a lot of trouble going below 10 mg. Even dropping 25% was a lot for me. i think the receptors were saturated at around 10 mg, but just a guess.

I know that you are pleased with your current regimen more or less and im just throwing this out there so don't take it the wrong way. Being that you have been stable on meds for this long, do you think that you view your illness the same away as before you were medicated? You seem to have a good deal of clarity now. Maybe you don't need it all anymore and could get by with just the lamictal. lamictal is a pretty good drug i think if you are able to tolerate it. Way less risk that way. I don't mean that in the way that you are thinking. Just that I think you would prob be able to deal with your symptoms in a healthier way now and things may have changed for you. You may not need an AP at all anymore. If it keeps messing with your bloodwork and you have to switch APs, CBD is a good option too. eyeroll I know. just would like you stay healthy but i understand you are busy and can't be taking a lot of risks.

I deal with a lot of symptoms still but I believe a lot of them are from zyprexa and that they will become more manageable with time. That being said, I handle them a lot better than I would have in the past bc I have experienced being more or less symptom free before. I am able to sort out whats real and whats just a symptom. In a lot of ways, coming off zyprexa was like mental illness on steroids and kind of a good mental exercise albeit brutal. I had a few freak outs, some questionable/angry posts, and felt suicidal a lot but it made me strong. I just don't view my illness the same anymore and I understand it a lot better. I don't feel like im a victim of my symptoms anymore if that makes sense.

let us know how it goes for you and well be here along the way. but I would advocate doing it in smaller increments. dropping 33% can be a lot. support is key. I didn't have much support IRL besides my gf and she was sick of it pretty quick. I didn't talk about it that much though bc most people just don't get it. If you have some folks that have your back it makes a big difference.

 

[jammin83]

Although the reasoning behind the 10% rule is sound, for the vast majority of people, it is probably unnecessary. Regardless, it's almost impossible to achieve unless like you say, you have access to oral suspension. It may be the safest option but in most cases it is a lot of hassle for little benefit.

I understand what you are getting at here but I certainly wouldn't say the vast majority of people. Some people are more sensitive than others and we don't really know what those numbers are. Given the large number of people on psych drugs, it is fair to assume that a significant number will have a hard time, even if its a small fraction. Dosage, length of treatment, individual biochemistry, and the drug you were using are the main factors. I also think extended periods of poly drugging and histories of abrupt discontinuation (esp benzos) also up the risk, IMO.

I would also add, that those visiting this thread are more likely to be in a bad spot to begin with and rapid reductions pose a great deal of risk and significant harm that can be long lasting and even permanent. I think it is the best interest of HR to advocate slow reductions when possible.

Making small cuts is difficult with available formulations. Manufacturers make it exceedingly difficult or extremely expensive to taper appropriately. That's not to say it can't be done. you have people on this site extracting drugs from plants with little knowledge of chemistry, and doing things that require more than a little motivation. With a little can-do attitude you can make it happen and will minimize harm and pain. volumetric dosing and making suspensions and isn't that difficult and you can store most of the stuff in liquid for a weeks worth or so. use an oral syringe and you are good to go with however small you want. you can just pulverize the pills and do some math on the mg scale. its not that hard, but can be a pain in the ass. Worth it? most definitely. I disagree that it would be of little benefit.

I've made cuts that were only 10% from meds that was too fast before. Cuts even that small have the ability to destabilize you. I just recovered from a reduction that destabilized me for three months. As you get closer to zero, the taper can get extremely hard and tiny cuts have to be made. Stopping APs can be serious business, you have to play it safe. You can go for a kamikaze taper if you want and see how it goes but you are playing with fire. If withdrawal symptoms become severe, sometimes reinstating doesn't work or takes months to fix. So if you get major symptoms, go back to the last dose you were stable on. In the long run, you could be costing yourself more pain and time by dropping too fast. I made a critical mistake and tried to push through and I think that's where I did most of the damage that I am still paying for. My taper lasted over a year too and was way too fast.

I have a friend that is coming off of zyprexa too and she did it the right way. She made tiny cuts (less than 10%) weekly. It went pretty smooth for her but she still has a ways to go. This is her fourth time trying to come off of it. She would be off for a year or so and have to get back on it bc of insomnia. AP induced insomnia is hard to beat. Not much makes you tired after APs. I think a slow taper will not only minimize withdrawal symptoms but will also help with ones overall success off of medication. I think people really don't understand or appreciate the risks when it comes to psych drug withdrawal. I think people underestimate the amount of time it takes to get back to 'baseline' whether they realize they are having symptoms or not. I think it usually takes at least a year sometimes much longer.

I think the most important thing is to listen to your body. It will be different for everyone of course. Some can do it a little faster than others but it should really never be faster than six months or so IMO. Sometimes severe rebound symptoms happen after you have been off for a while.

 

[jammin83]

This is from the SAD website and has some good info regarding the above. Saves me some time. Altostrata knows quite a bit. nice lady too.

The 10% taper recommendation is a harm reduction approach to going off psychiatric drugs. We believe this conservative tapering method will cause harm to the fewest number of people.
The reason this site exists is because doctors are unaware of the greater safety of gradual dosage reduction, usually advise tapers that are too fast, do not sufficiently recognize withdrawal syndrome, and do not know what to do if it occurs.

According to the journal literature on antidepressant withdrawal syndrome, anyone who has been taking a drug for a month or more is at risk.


In a nutshell, the 10% taper method recommends a 10% dosage reduction every 3-4 weeks, with the 10% calculated on the last dosage. The amount of decrease is proportionate to the dosage and keeps getting smaller.

(Those finding that this method too slow can always speed up by making 10% reductions more often. However, if you get withdrawal symptoms, your nervous system is telling you that you are tapering too fast.)


The 10% per month reduction method is recommended by
Peter Breggin in Your Drug May Be Your Problem
The Icarus Project Harm Reduction Guide To Coming Off Psychiatric Drugs
MIND-UK's Coping With Coming Off Psych Drugs Guide
NHS Advice: Benzodiazepine and z-drug withdrawal - Management
Gianna Kali's Withdrawal 101 on BeyondMeds.com
and many peer support groups -- people who know what withdrawal symptoms are like
In addition, see this paper Meyer, 2004 Serotonin transporter occupancy of five selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors at different doses: an %5B11C%5DDASB positron emission tomography study.
discussion and full text here http://survivinganti...-concentration/

As our member Rhi said:



Rhi, on 13 Apr 2014 - 2:53 PM, said:
....
When you open the document go to page 4 and look at the charts. You will see that at lower doses you must taper EXTRA slow, not faster. At higher doses, when you cut 1 mg, it only reduces your receptor occupancy by a small amount; but from 1 mg down to 0 you drop from 20% occupancy straight down to zero!

That's why we say calculate your cuts based on 10% of your CURRENT dose. (Or a smaller percentage....
....

Rhi suggests printing this paper out and taking it to your doctor to show why it's important to taper very gradually.

Why decrease by such a small amount?
This is why:


The risk of severe withdrawal is so great for a minority of people, a very conservative approach to tapering to protect everyone is called for.


Many people seem to be able to taper off psychiatric medications in a couple of weeks or even cold-turkey with minor withdrawal symptoms perhaps for a month or so. Doctors therefore expect everyone can do this. However, it seems a minority suffer severe symptoms for much longer.


It is unknown how large or small this minority is. You may very well be in it. You can't know how your nervous system will respond to a decrease in medication until you try it.


You won't know if you're in the unlucky minority until it's too late. It's a lot easier to taper slowly than to put your nervous system back together again after it's injured.


From reports of withdrawal syndrome all over the Web, those concerned about withdrawal syndrome have come to a consensus: Decreases of 25%, which are recommended by many doctors, are too large, with many people develop withdrawal syndrome. Thus, the recommendation of the more gradual 10% reduction.


But aren't withdrawal symptoms minor and transient?
Withdrawal symptoms represent neurological dysfunction. They are not normal and should not be ignored. Severe symptoms can be distressing, debilitating, or even disabling. If you get prolonged withdrawal syndrome, there is no known treatment or cure. You will have to cope with it until it goes away.


According to Joseph Glenmullen in The Antidepressant Solution, discontinuation should incur almost no withdrawal symptoms.


Some guides will suggest a trial decrease of 25% to start. If you get withdrawal symptoms, it is recommended to reinstate the original full dosage and taper more slowly from there.


Except -- it can take weeks to feel the full brunt of withdrawal symptoms from an initial drop. If you have already made two reductions from your original dosage, you will have reduced by about 50% -- and your symptoms may indicate substantial neurological dysregulation. You could be suffering quite a bit for a long time.


It's a Humpty-Dumpty situation. Once your nervous system falls off that wall, there's not much that can be done to put it together again.


It makes more sense to start slow, to protect your nervous system, and increase your rate of taper if you can find you can tolerate a faster withdrawal.


(NEVER ALTERNATE DOSAGES TO TAPER. IF YOU ARE SENSITIVE, THIS IS SURE TO SET OFF WITHDRAWAL SYMPTOMS.)


A 10% decrease lessens your risk
If you are a person who is sensitive to fluctuations in your dosage, you may be suffering quite a bit, and for these people, even if the original dosage is reinstated at this point, withdrawal symptoms may continue to be severe.


To save wear and tear on your nervous system, we recommend an initial drop of 10% and staying at that level for a month to see if withdrawal symptoms develop.


If they do, you may wish to reinstate and make smaller decreases at intervals of about a month. If you are sensitive, this can protect you from a great deal of pain and discomfort.


Can you taper faster?
If are not sensitive to a 10% drop, by listening to your body, you may be able to make 10% drops more often than every month.


Many people do fine with a faster taper. Are you one of them? You can't tell ahead of time.


It's best to go slowly at first to find out how you tolerate a reduction. Once you damage your nervous system with withdrawal symptoms, it can take a very long time to feel good again.


The 10% method protects everyone and you have the option of tapering faster if you can tolerate it.


Follow this harm reduction approach to starting your taper:
Initially, make a 10% reduction and hold there for a MONTH. It can take several weeks for withdrawal symptoms to emerge. Do that again the second month.
If you have very minor or no symptoms from these 2 reductions, you can try reducing by 10% (calculated on the last dosage, the amount of decrease keeps getting smaller) every 3 weeks. Do that twice. If no problems, reduce by 10% every 2 weeks. Do that twice.
If no problems after 4.5 months of very gradual reduction, you may be able to reduce by 10% every week.
If significant withdrawal symptoms appear, make smaller cuts or go slower. Listen to your body.
"Jump off" at the end when reductions no longer cause any reaction at all.
With this method, the fastest taper takes about 6 months.


MIND-UK's Coping With Coming Off Psych Drugs Guide explains it like this (on the Icarus Project Web site):

Quote
Allow enough time for your body to readjust to the lower dosage at each stage. You could start by reducing the dose by 10 percent, and see how you feel. If you get withdrawal effects, wait for these to settle before you try the next reduction.....At each stage, if you find the reduction too difficult to cope with, you can increase the dose slightly (not necessarily back to the previous dose) and stabilise on that before you continue.


What if I have to taper slower than 10% per month?
If you are very sensitive to dosage reductions, you may have to reduce by very, very small amounts, less than 10% per month, or hold for even longer than a month at a time.


Everyone is different; you'll want to do what's best for your nervous system. This can make tapering a project lasting years.


See the discussion about this here: The slowness of slow tapers
Also see Dr. Peter Breggin's 10% taper method from Your Drug May Be Your Problem: How And Why To Stop Taking Psychiatric Medications by Peter R. Breggin and David Cohen.


Please note that the 10% reduction method we recommend on SurvivingAntidepressants.org is a 10% reduction on your CURRENT dosage, not the original dosage of the drug.

If you have been tapering, you calculate the 10% on your last dosage. The amount of the decrease keeps getting smaller for the duration of your taper.


- If you started at 10mg, the first reduction would be 10% of 10mg, or 1mg, for a reduced dose of 9mg.


- Your second reduction would be 10% of 9mg, or .9mg, for a reduced dose of 8.1mg.


- Your third reduction would be 10% of 8.1mg, or .81mg, for a reduced dose of 7.29mg.


And so on.


This ensures that your nervous system is eased down a gentle 10% slope at every step of the process. It's important that drops become smaller, not larger, as you go. Once you find the rate at which you can comfortably taper, you don't want to jolt your nervous system with a larger drop than it can handle.


Mathematics whizzes may recognize that the 10% reduction formula is a geometric progression (asymptote) approaching but never equaling zero. At a very small dosage, likely less than 1mg, when reductions no longer cause any withdrawal symptoms, you may want to simply stop.


You will need to use your own judgment about your jumping-off point. Some people have found that, to avoid withdrawal symptoms, the final steps require reductions so tiny they cannot measure them, employing methods such as dipping a toothpick in a liquid solution to ease off in the final stages.

 

[jammin83]

Sorry for spamming the thread but I think this is also worth sharing.

When you reduce or quit an antidepressant (or any psychiatric drug), you may experience withdrawal symptoms.

Withdrawal symptoms are due to an absence of a medication at a level to which your body has become accustomed. They are an adverse effect of psychiatric drug use. When the level of the drug is reduced, your body notices it and tries to compensate, creating withdrawal symptoms. Withdrawing faster will increase withdrawal symptoms.


Quitting "cold-turkey" increases the risk of intense and prolonged withdrawal symptoms. Many people find that alternating dosages triggers withdrawal symptoms. It is not a gradual enough transition for some nervous systems.


Why are withdrawal symptoms so varied?
Because psychiatric drugs affect your nervous system -- the "operating system" of your body -- withdrawal symptoms can show up almost anywhere. They can be problems in


- Perception (vision, smell, hearing, etc.)
- Cognition (confusion, inability to concentrate, disorientation, depersonalization, etc.)
- Unusual and powerful emotions (melancholia, weeping, fear, anxiety, "neuro-emotion", etc.)
- Physical pain (headache, migraine, tingling, muscle aches, skin burning, etc.)
- Digestive issues (diarrhea, gastroparesis, etc.)
- Sleep issues (most commonly insomnia and poor sleep)
- "Brain zaps" (a sensation of tiny, sharp electrical surges in the brain)
- Hypersensitivity to medications, supplements, or foods


and others (more information about symptoms).


How do I know it's withdrawal and not relapse?
Typically, in withdrawal symptoms such as melancholia, anxiety, and disorientation come in intense waves, which differentiates them from relapse of a psychological condition.


In withdrawal, symptoms are much more intense than the original psychological condition. People suffering from withdrawal often say things like


- "This doesn't feel like my depression."
- "I've never had symptoms like this before."
- "I feel very weird and not like myself."


It's up to the individual to decide whether your body and brain are behaving "normally" as they did before you tried medication, or if you are feeling differently.


Why do you suggest tapering so slowly?
Withdrawal symptoms can be distressing, debilitating, and even disabling. While medicine insists that withdrawal symptoms last only a few weeks, some people experience them for much, much longer -- months and even years.


You cannot know in advance if you will suffer severe withdrawal from psychiatric medications. Very gradual reduction is the only way to limit the risk and severity of withdrawal symptoms. To be safe, we advocate a gradual taper with an initial reduction of 10% of dosage, for 3-4 weeks.


The theory behind tapering is that it allows your body and nervous system to gradually adapt to the absence of the medication. (More information about tapering here.)


Stages of withdrawal syndrome
ACUTE WITHDRAWAL
- Symptoms may appear when you reduce the dosage of a medication. If they are severe and do not fade in a few days, they are a sign your reduction in medication was too sudden. You might increase dosage slightly and reduce by a smaller amount next time.


- Symptoms may appear after you stop a medication. Because your body may not at first recognize the decrease of the drug, you may not feel withdrawal symptoms for a few weeks or even months. Reinstating the medication (at a reduced dosage) fairly soon after quitting can reduce or eliminate withdrawal symptoms. You can then taper more slowly from that level of medication.


The window when reinstatement may work for reducing withdrawal symptoms varies from individual to individual, but does not seem to be longer than a few months. After that, reinstatement either does not help or makes symptoms worse.


POST-ACUTE WITHDRAWAL
- Symptoms may last for weeks, months, or years after you stop. Probably for the majority of people, withdrawal symptoms resolve in a few weeks or months. Others can suffer for years from prolonged withdrawal syndrome.


In prolonged withdrawal syndrome, symptoms come in waves with windows of feeling more normal. Gradually, windows increase in frequency and length. Recovery varies from individual to individual and can take months or years.


Generally, prolonged withdrawal syndrome is not recognized by medicine. You will find very few doctors to diagnose it and still fewer to treat it

 

[Stuck_x]

I know to a lot of people my account won't help much cause i was only on seroquel about 6 weeks, but you can get off if you want to. I probably did drop too fast but I wasn't on it for long, so i guess it would be a lot easier for me.

So i was on 50 for around 4 weeks 25 for a week, 12.5 for about a week, then stopped. I had withdrawal symptoms, for around a week, & was taking oxycodone through that week. Now i am 48 hours free of oxy too.

prior to the seroquel (quetiapine) i was on 60mg fluoxetine (prozac) before that sertraline (zoloft) & again before that prozac again. This is probably the first time i am free of all meds in 5+ years.

mentally, i am feeling OK right now. Physical, not so much. I have an appointment with my psyc tomorrow, i am coming clean about everything again. Im really in a catch 22, not trusting the medical professionals but feeling like i cant do anything alone. I have zero motivation. I am due back to work soon & i do not know how i am going to cope with that.

 

[SixBuckets]

6b, forgive me, im not super familiar with this particular AP. Don't believe its available in the US.

Amisulpride isn't available in the US - no idea why. In Australia, it's one of the few drugs subsidised for schizoaffective disorder as well as bipolar and schizophrenia.

Looks like you are on a mediumish dose? Kind of a slutty binding profile, go easy. I would drop down in at least two steps spread out over a about 6 weeks but I get that urgency is key. Maybe you could try the drop right away and see how it goes but have a backup plan to do it a little slower. You also sound like you have a lot going on, so a drop that big might pose some problems. Anxiety would prob be the most prominent symptom I would think and maybe some nausea. If you can function ok on the lower dose that would be a good thing anyway.

That's the current plan - drop down in two steps, with an open mind to going back up if things get crazy.

I've previously done a couple of switches from one antipsychotic to another, which I actually found surprisingly easy. No significant discontinuation syndrome, just a couple weeks of relatively mild anxiety. But a straight decrease rather than a switch might be a different kettle of fish.

I know that you are pleased with your current regimen more or less and im just throwing this out there so don't take it the wrong way. Being that you have been stable on meds for this long, do you think that you view your illness the same away as before you were medicated? You seem to have a good deal of clarity now. Maybe you don't need it all anymore and could get by with just the lamictal. lamictal is a pretty good drug i think if you are able to tolerate it. Way less risk that way. I don't mean that in the way that you are thinking. Just that I think you would prob be able to deal with your symptoms in a healthier way now and things may have changed for you. You may not need an AP at all anymore. If it keeps messing with your bloodwork and you have to switch APs, CBD is a good option too. eyeroll I know. just would like you stay healthy but i understand you are busy and can't be taking a lot of risks.

I know what you're saying, and my psychiatrist has actually made this point before - that I might be stable enough to manage with just a mood stabiliser. But my psychotic symptoms, when I've had them, have been completely terrifying and disabling. If I wasn't working or studying, I might have the capacity to try coming off my amisulpride completely over a year or so and see what happens, but I have zero confidence that I could manage that experiment with my current obligations. I've previously spent long periods on on two other antipsychotics (quetiapine and asenapine) and was nowhere near this stable on either of them - working full time simply wasn't an option on either drug, and I had a not small number of breakdowns over work related stress while I was taking them. I'm pretty sure when I say that my current stability is largely a product of my medication combo and that I risk sacrificing that stability if I mess with it too much.

I am able to sort out whats real and whats just a symptom.

I've always had very good insight, when I'm experiencing symptoms. It doesn't make it any less scary, but at least it encourages you to actively try to manage your condition.

In a lot of ways, coming off zyprexa was like mental illness on steroids and kind of a good mental exercise albeit brutal. I had a few freak outs, some questionable/angry posts, and felt suicidal a lot but it made me strong. I just don't view my illness the same anymore and I understand it a lot better. I don't feel like im a victim of my symptoms anymore if that makes sense.

It does, and I'm really glad to hear it. There are lots of different ways to approach mental health.

 

[ZombieMode]

I'm in the process of withdrawing completely from antipsychotics. Was on a 400mg injection of abilify for around a year, and am currently on 200mg with a dosage reduction of 100mg per month, then orals for a month. Aim is to be off meds and on the path to recovery by July this year.

I'm not mentally ill, though do believe I have developed numerous imbalances resulting from my forced treatment. I was initially labelled as a schizophrenic and am in the process of suing for a wrong diagnosis. But I digress.

Was just wondering if anyone has found any benefit from the following - I'll be starting each over the next month and will update as I go:
- acupuncture,
- reiki
- endocrinologist
- traditional chinese medicine
- orthomolecular medicine/psychiatry

I'm sort of at a loss with where to start and where to focus my efforts - I understand that time is the best healer, however, from speaking with my GP alone it seems that dopamine and endocrine system are the main targets for these antipsychotic poisons.

 

[SixBuckets]

I'm in the process of withdrawing completely from antipsychotics. Was on a 400mg injection of abilify for around a year, and am currently on 200mg with a dosage reduction of 100mg per month, then orals for a month. Aim is to be off meds and on the path to recovery by July this year.

I'm not mentally ill, though do believe I have developed numerous imbalances resulting from my forced treatment. I was initially labelled as a schizophrenic and am in the process of suing for a wrong diagnosis. But I digress.

Was just wondering if anyone has found any benefit from the following - I'll be starting each over the next month and will update as I go:
- acupuncture,
- reiki
- endocrinologist
- traditional chinese medicine
- orthomolecular medicine/psychiatry

I'm sort of at a loss with where to start and where to focus my efforts - I understand that time is the best healer, however, from speaking with my GP alone it seems that dopamine and endocrine system are the main targets for these antipsychotic poisons.

Your psychiatrist should have referred you for an endocrinological work up as a matter of course when you were diagnosed, if for no other reason that because some antipsychotics are contraindicated for people with blood sugar, thyroid or hormonal problems. If you haven't seen one before, it's worth getting a referral to find out if you have any endocrinological issues underlying your mental health problems.

 

[jammin83]

An update for me.

around 20-21 months in now. doing okay and managing i suppose. 5 years of APs. a year of risperidone and four years of zyprexa.

still have some ups and downs and don't really seem to be improving much anymore. i have kind of leveled out and been kind of the same for a while now.

still having:

mood swings but not as severe/full mania has subsided
depression but kind of a steady depression, like its my normal state depression
severe anxiety that never really goes away
burning, tingling, hot skin this hasn't ever gone away and really hasn't improved much
nerves feeling fried
tension in my neck, back, spine, and head
feeling hot and having hot flashes/sweats
verbal tics - still wondering wtf is up with these panic/severe anxiety? seizure?
paranoia
can't control my thoughts and lost in my thoughts
extreme inability to concentrate
cognitive impairment and having a hard time expressing myself. learning things is still difficult.
general feelings of having brain damage
fatigued but have a wide awake feeling that never goes away
sleep is inconsistent and when I wake up, I am AWAKE

I also have more pain and kind of a general soreness/stiffness. I have this pressure in my head and I feel this kind of weird spot in the back of my head that hurts. It kind of feels dead and overstimulated at the same time. Like I got hit in the head sort of.

Its not totally fucked, but pretty fucked still. manageable i suppose. This whole thing has been sucking the life out of me for almost two years now. I try not to think about it but I feel it every fucking second of every fucking day. I know im not right. I am convinced I have serious brain damage for the most part. I really don't want to have to live like this forever. I don't talk about it to anyone anymore mainly just talk about it here on BL. I don't know feeling kind of scared about it and have been pretty scared the whole time. Feels like nobody can really help and there really isn't much anyone can do. Im pretty sick of it, i just want to feel comfortable in my own skin. I can deal with the depression. It eases up sometimes but its always there i feel like.

Trying to stay positive about everything but damn.

How is ZM, 6B, and everyone else doing?

 

[ZombieMode]

Hey Jammin!

Mate this is so fucking painful to read. I assure you; I'm experiencing pretty much all of what you just mentioned at varying levels, though trying not to focus on it as much. Been spending my days playing world of warcraft and doing extensive research into how to truly heal from APs. Have learnt quite a bit, hopefully something I say in this post can help you too:

If you've got the time, I'd definitely reccomend anyone suffering as a result of these kinds of poisons to check out the following video.

https://youtu.be/o8LdbZjVAa8

It's a seminar of some kind by a doctor named Edward Group. Really sheds some light on the truth of it all. Best part is toward the end where he makes the claim that there is in fact no such thing as mental illness (something that resonates with me personally, as I have never believed in it from day 1 of my forced drugging). And better still, what we can do to heal.

-
1 year of forced abilify injections at the max dose has left me in a zombie-like state, plagued with all kinds of iatrogic illnesses' and disability - this is extremely disgusting considering that just prior to my poisoning I would ride 80kms every second day in the mountains, hike, surf, meditate, yoga, gym, sell peoples homes, study full time, ..... The extent to my capabilities and actions and the person I was, was not normal. Super-human almost. Not trying to sound up myself, for all has been lost. Consider it a warning to anyone wanting to take these neuroleptic brain-disabling poisons. Fucks you up real good.

What have I been doing to return to my prior state of good health, high energy and overall positive life? Researching. Speaking with doctors worldwide of all specializations.

Basically, these drugs rob us of our dopamine. Our fucking birthright. They wreak havoc on the endocrine and nervous systems. Only the scum who created it can truly know what else. We all are living proof of the dangers of this kind of poison.

I have begun eating right again. Let myself go for a while there. Am already experiencing the effects from a morning vege juice such as glimmers of deep thoughts/daydreams. I envision myself eventually writing a book to educate the masses of the dangers of these poisons. Fuck whoever calls it a medicine. You are deluded. Medicine comes from nature; organic foods are medicine, herbs, some types of supplenents. "Anti-psychotics" are a toxic poisonous deadly drug.

The amount of suppressed anger i hold toward the system that made me a victim of life, is alnost unbareable. Weren't it not for the inability to express my frustrations, id have hunt them down and injected APs into their eyes. I digress.

My next task is to find a way to restore dopamine levels so that I can atleast exercise again. Haven't really notice significant changes in my body conposition but having been laying around all day every day for the last year can't be good. The occasional walk around the block feels like a waste of time (even though theres nothing else to be doing), and i feel little benefit from doing so. If i find something, when i do, you all will be the first to know.

-

Not really much of an update; though ranting seems to help me. The thought that someday someone might retain their life as a result of my posts is why i share such strong opinions.

-

I'm basically retarded. Just want you all to know that your pal Zombie at BL is committed to finding a solution to this horrendous torture! Peace

 

[paranoid android]

Has anyone here managed to do it? I know they say AP are not addictive but they definitely cause dependances.

So my question is has anyone successfully stopped taking them? Did you have withdrawal symptoms? And how long did they last?

I would also be interested in hearing how long typically it takes to develop a dependancy

Love and Light

I have taken Quetiapine, Risperidone and Olanzapine long term. I have taken Thorazine/Largactil, Methotrimeprazine and Compazine/Stemetil but only for emergencies really. I had really severe withdrawal symptoms when i stopped Risperidone suddenly at 3-4mg's a day. I was a total fucking mess and it felt almost like being on a bad psychedelic. Everything seems so overwhelming. But with a proper taper i quit no problem.

While Anti-Psychotics Typical or Atypical can be hard to come off i don't think they hold a candle to some SSRI's and SNRI's such as Paroxetine and Venlafaxine in terms of withdrawal symptoms. Venlafaxine was by far the worst drug i have come off and that includes high dose Benzos and Opiates ffs. Id rather kick a few hundred mg a day Hydromorphone addiction anyday over effexor. Alcohol was maybe the only drug on par in terms of shittiness and pure terror to come off.

 

[Ligaturd]

I went back on Olanzapine. It's been 4 months on 5mg a day, it was holding me really well. It's completely turned things around for me but the prolactin increase is a real turn off for me. I've gone down to 2.5mgs a day and it doesn't seem to have an impact on this side effect. This dose somewhat manages my symptoms but not completely and I am thinking about just coming off of it completely because the prolactin increase ruins my self esteem and confidence which were already horrible before I got on olanzapine.

There is going to be a rebound effect when I come off of it right? I can probably expect my symptoms to get worse for awhile, but how long does it usually take for the receptors to normalize again?

 

[paranoid android]

I went back on Olanzapine. It's been 4 months on 5mg a day, it was holding me really well. It's completely turned things around for me but the prolactin increase is a real turn off for me. I've gone down to 2.5mgs a day and it doesn't seem to have an impact on this side effect. This dose somewhat manages my symptoms but not completely and I am thinking about just coming off of it completely because the prolactin increase ruins my self esteem and confidence which were already horrible before I got on olanzapine.

There is going to be a rebound effect when I come off of it right? I can probably expect my symptoms to get worse for awhile, but how long does it usually take for the receptors to normalize again?

Have you tried Quetiapine? It causes very little in the way of a raise in prolactin levels so if you haven't tried it already id give it a shot.

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

Wish me luck guys. Tomorrow I have an appointment with my psychiatrist. I can either stay on clozapine benzotropine and methylphenidate, or discontinue the methylphenidate (grr it sucks) and start tapering off my clozapine. I'm going to taper off the clozapine, because from what I've been researching, it isn't effective long term. People apparently have more psychosis' and hospitalizations if they're on antipsychotics long term. Also apparently antipsychotics are responsible for the brain volume loss. Also there's the risk for tardive dyskinesia which would suck. It also increases risk of death by 2.5 times. It also lowers the life expectancy. Also there's added fluoride to medication.

Its just hard to make an opinion either way, because I've been catatonic, had hallucinations before, and thought disorders. I don't have the best memory since being on meds, but I didn't hallucinate before I was on invega. fuck this is a hard decision, could somebody offer some insight to the TRUTH about antipsychotics?

The less medication you're on, the better. That's a rule of thumb.

Don't know what you've read, but I kind of doubt that. Do you have any sources for this doom and gloom? I'm guessing no, because you're asking us.

What I can pretty well be sure of is that your psychotic symptoms don't seem stable enough to warrant treatment with Ritalin. That's the thing that will stab you in the back, not being on an antipsychotic. How did you manage to deceive your doctor?

 

[ZombieMode]

Is anyone else experiencing troubles with their speech? I'm finding it increasingly difficult to talk to people, including life-long friends and family. I seem to be able to write OKAY, but speaking is just near impossible. I guess i'm not helping the case by choosing to isolate myself, but each time I try to break this habit I struggle greatly, so I gave up trying.

 

[Dresden]

I've been taking all sorts of atypical and typical antipsychotics (mostly Zyprexa and then Haldol) more or less continuously for 20 years. For the last 6 years or so, it's been Haldol, most recently 20mg/day. Well, 3 weeks ago yesterday I quit cold turkey without telling my family or my doctor. I haven't had a single pill of it since. I have been having extreme insomnia (I stay up till about 5 or 6 am and then sleep till as late as 2pm), intense focusing (I read the internet continuously for HOURS on end), and am having mild symptoms of tardive dyskinesia (semi-involunary body jerks, odd breathing and mouth noises, and making weird faces). I'm mostly worried about the tardive dyskinesia and am hoping that it will pass. I experienced it once before last spring after a meth (dopamine agonist) binge and that went away. This stuff is difficult to come off of to say the least and it bothers me that society doesn't encourage it at all either to the point that I have to hide the fact that I'm quitting from my family for the forseeable future. The medical establishment, as a whole, doles out this antipsychotic crap like it's candy when in reality AP's are toxic garbage with extreme (and little known) dependence liability. On the flip side, I have quit using abusable street drugs since quitting haldol and no longer seem to really crave them, either.

 

[swisscurrie]

I can relate to many of your symptoms and problems after long term SSRI use throughout my whole development as well as risperidone use for half a year as a child. Those two didn't really give me symptoms of tardive dyskinesia though, it was more the long term use of high doses of dextroamphetamine that really gave me tardive dyskinesia, permanent psychotic symptoms and permanent brain damage. I then also used finasteride which gave me post finasterid syndrome and turned me into an emotionless asexual zombie who cant function like I used to.

Using any dosage of Meth or Haldol causes irreversible neurotoxicity and brain damage and both those drugs should be avoided by all humans who enjoy their life and health. My health and life were stolen from me at a young age so there is little hope for me. But if you say you search the internet a lot then I cannot understand why you would voluntarily take Haldol for six years. That's like purposely giving yourself neurological damage and an acquired brain injury. I thought it was mostly used as a form of chemical restraint/rape in hospitals of severely aggressive agitated and uncontrollable patients. I think its good you stopped taking it. I don't know why anyone would take such a toxic poison unless they were forced to.

 

[Dresden]

Originally, I was forced to take antipsychotics (a depot injection in the butt of haldol) after being hospitalized following a manic episode at age 19 following a psychotic break depression triggered by LSD. Over the years, they seemed to help a little, especially with sleep and maybe with intermittent delusions, and quitting for 4 months 7 years ago proved disastrous and ended with forced hospitalization yet again. In short, I was dependent even though I knew they were bad for me. Even now, I am tempted to say F it and pop a haldol rather than endure this prolonged withdrawal, which I hope is only temporary. I know smoking cigarettes is bad for me too, but I still do that, too, because I like to so much. I don't have any reason to think that this abrupt antipsychotic discontinuation will have any better outcome than my previous 4 month attempt, but I am determined to try.