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  • P&S Moderators: Xorkoth | Madness

Enteties (The Archon/Djinn)

Yeah, you're gonna have to re read that again. It wasn't me attacking the person drinking bone broth. I'd be drinking bone broth too if I thought it could help me get better in the same situation. I was upset with the member attacking the broth drinker and let him know about it, something I rarely do. I told the broth drinker to enjoy his soup, which literally means enjoy your soup. Then the gates of crazy opened and a guy I never even heard of before started attacking me. You're forcing me into an antagonistic position based on misreading a situation that is plainly written in English. I was genuinely saddened to hear the news about one of my favorite posters on this site just prior. So put your detective hat on and get to the bottom of this mystery. I'll be holding my breath waiting.
 
It was tantric making a comment about foreigner consuming beef while having to undergo chemotherapy. I think Turk was talking to tantric.

Fuck that sounded gossipy :D
 
Ha ha, that was funny willow. yeah, gossipy sounds a lot better than broth drinker though. Trying to keep it on the DL . Sorry Foreigner if you're reading this. We miss you.

I'm a recovering apprentice shaman Turk. Some have called it a prolonged period of unemployment and psychedelic abuse, but they're just jealous. Taking it one day at a time (even though time doesn't exist).
 
^Your brain intrigues me, dude. I want to eat it.

I've wondered if every drug user is a shaman of sorts. I've suffered hugely from addiction and drug-related shot but also gained a perspective I wouldn't trade for anything except more drugs.. The deepest comprehension of astrophysics I've had was during GABAergic withdrawal. So much pain but crazy visualising of scientific concept. Really tripped up experience but I remember what I learned, a rare feat for me ;)
 
I assumed you were the guy I called an egoic sociopath. I forget to quote the person I am directing my comments to. I was calling tantric the egoic sociopath, not you.
 
My heart goes out to all those affected by Cancer. It takes so many good souls away from us. I will be wishing your buddy some luck.
 
we cool Turk. Tantric was calling me a shaman, so I assumed you were talking to me. In Tantrics defense, I don't think he knew about the situation though he could have handled it better.

I absolutely think Shaman is an appropriate word for any drug user that is fascinated by consciousness and spirit and uses drugs/medicines within a framework that is not limited to the body. Some chose to use LSD to access emotional wounds in an attempt to heal physical symptoms. Stuff that is generally considered soft by western medicine. Many people on this site are Shamans by my definition, maybe even you willow, though I agree it sounds very pretentious and I might have chosen to keep that to myself that I had the aspirations. Anyways, hoping to learn some astrophysics from you one of these days. Sounds like you had your own private guided tour of the universe.

Alright, I'm good. Onwards and forwards. Fucking Archons!
 
actually i read it as if he was reffering to himself as a shaman when he said, "fuck, what's being a shaman about, if not being a friend of death?" in reference to taking his own life.

I'm thankful you said something about it as I am glad to clear things up.
 
My reading of the situation is that foreigner doesn't have cancer but is getting chemotherapy for another condition.

With shamanism, I feel like this is more western cultural appropriation. It mildly pisses me of to look at indigenous cultures that white people have largely displaced and then to see white people claiming to be communicating with the plant spirits of the conquered. This further dilutes the culture we have already basically bulldozed. We've basically taken everything else, why also take their culture?

Of course, perhaps dissemination of shamanic practise into the west will help to keep the tradition alive but given how culturally and geographically bound these practises are, we can only approximate these belief systems and unwittingly modify and eventually subsume and eternally alter them because we cannot understand the true profundity and utility of these beliefs. Many cultures without written language rely deeply on these traditions to contain and convey their people's history and I wonder if western use of these traditions is really the final nail in the coffin? The contamination with our own dominant cultural tropes could effectively create a single world history devoid of nuance and specificity. This is a terrible injustice to long running civilisations IMO.

I like the idea of western shamanic practise revolving around modern synthetic drugs and electronic music. To me, that is something I can relate to. I have indigenous Australian heritage but I feel no connection with the land or plant spirits. I do feel a connection with my inner robot though...
 
Shamanism doesn't belong to any one culture, it doesn't have one specific template and it certainly doesn't require intermediation by any institution. It's experiential and the experience is influenced by ones beliefs and environment. You've framed shamanism into the context of western cultural influence. Since western culture has trampled all over indigenous cultures, it's hard not to feel disgust when considering the possibility of a western shaman. I doubt shamans in those cultures were aware of the word shaman before a westerner told them that's what they were. See my point? For as long as people have existed they have connected to spirit, to other dimensions of existence and used information obtained experientially to heal their own experience and that of others. Whether it is even possible to do so is a uniquely western problem that keeps coming up. Some shamans never tried a psychedelic, so by no means should it be a tripper thing. Western shamanic practice shouldn't have a definition separate from shamanism if you ask me even though its obviously going to look different.
 
I think of my myself as a "shaman" of sorts, but I don't use the term in the sense of where it came from, to describe an indigenous healer/guide/etc. I use it in to mean one who feels a calling to help people spiritually. I have a history of guiding people through psychedelic experiences and existential crises, and it's something I feel called to do, because I feel like I've gained some useful insights for myself and I want to share those with people who are seeking. I don't feel like I'm communicating with the "spirits" of psychedelic drugs, I just feel like I understand them in the context of the subjective effects they have on an individual and the resulting insights/learning.
 
I think that is a good perspective of it. I think it can mean many things.
 
The Emeral Tables of Thoth also has some good passages of this. Some say they're from an older universe and he says they're from a previous cycle.


"Far in the past before Atlantis existed,
men there were who delved into darkness,
using dark magic, calling up beings
from the great deep below us.

Forth came they into this cycle.
Formless were they of another vibration,
existing unseen by the children of earth-men.
Only through blood could they have formed being.
Only through man could they live in the world.

In ages past were they conquered by Masters,
driven below to the place whence they came.
But some there were who remained,
hidden in spaces and planes unknown to man.
Lived they in Atlantis as shadows,
but at times they appeared among men.
Aye, when the blood was offered,
for they came they to dwell among men.

In the form of man they amongst us,
but only to sight were they as are men.
Serpent-headed when the glamour was lifted
but appearing to man as men among men.
Crept they into the Councils,
taking forms that were like unto men.
Slaying by their arts
the chiefs of the kingdoms,
taking their form and ruling o'er man.
Only by magic could they be discovered.
Only by sound could their faces be seen.
Sought they from the Kingdom of shadows
to destroy man and rule in his place.

But, know ye, the Masters were mighty in magic,
able to lift the Veil from the face of the serpent,
able to send him back to his place.
Came they to man and taught him the secret,
the WORD that only a man can pronounce.
Swift then they lifted the Veil from the serpent
and cast him forth from the place among men.

Yet, beware, the serpent still liveth
in a place that is open at times to the world.
Unseen they walk among thee
in places where the rites have been said.
Again as time passes onward
shall they take the semblance of men.

Called may they be by the master
who knows the white or the black,
but only the white master may control
and bind them while in the flesh."
 
My friend in college was really into the lizard people idea that this is espousing. It was interesting to talk to him about it. It's a compelling idea for one seeking for such things to be real. It could even be true, who knows? My guess though is that human nature is what causes the so-called "lizard people", who are just powerful sociopaths and in fact all too human. There are always sociopaths and they are often attracted to positions of power and influence, and they're good at attaining them too. Then they lead governments and multinational corporations and war machines and make terrible decisions for profit that ruin lives and rape the planet and whittle away at our chances to move to a better place as a species. It seems that it is our tragic history, our repeating pattern, that there exist some humans who wish to dominate other humans and will do anything to make it so. My fervent wish is for us to be able to somehow break that cycle because if we all worked together in harmony I believe we could do anything and we could have a beautiful existence together for everyone. I have no clue how to actually accomplish that shift, it may not even be possible. But here's to hope. <3 Maybe we can bring on another Golden Age. ;) See, it's compelling for me to want to believe in atlantis, and a cycle of golden/dark ages, and the lizard people who we can just expose and remove, and that some magical outside forces are narrating this grand cosmic drama. It's a beautiful thought, and I've fully been to where I believed in all of that. And I'm not even saying I can know it's not real, because I don't, and none of us do. But I think to me, these things just represent a personification of the drive towards the idea of a "golden age", where we can all live in harmony and wisdom and alignment. I believe it's possible we could achieve that, so to me it's irrelevant whether I believe in the atlantis/cycle of ages/esoteric spirituality elements like djinn, and so forth. What matters to me, and us, here and now, is that we can work towards and ideal that I believe is possible to achieve, but to achieve it we will have to pull ourselves out of the place we're at now, by ourselves, as a species. The best way to make that happen, IMO, is to pull yourself out of it, and then be the best influence you can be in trying to pull others out as well, and hopefully they'll do the same, and hopefully over time, awakening from the long history of fear and violence and oppression that our species has in our evolutionary history* will become the norm instead of the exception. Then, and only then, can we begin to grow and become what we could be.



*Our species has a long history of conquest and species eradication... we made the other competing human-like species (neaderthals, denisovans, and probably others) extinct and soon moved on to violence amongst ourselves, tribal warfare, us vs them, competition over resources (which is still largely the drive towards human-on-human hatred/violence). There is evidence that the people who first crossed the Bering land bridge into north america from asia were very violent, especially to their women. We just have a nasty history that affects us genetically/subconsciously, and it causes a lot of people to be born into cycles of abuse and perversion, and it also causes us to form hatreds against "others", and it allows those who have the power-hungry/"lizard people" streak to utilize these genetic wounds in us to control us and increase their power. But of course we have the power to rise above this ancestral genetic heritage, as individuals.
 
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I don't know. The lizard shape thing is a bit of a twist and not what is usually associated with the archon. But who knows, they could even be the same thing.

The idea of them being of another vibration and therefore invisible makes sense. Saying they can only be made visible through sound/vibration is also interesting and sounds like a form of advanced technology they could have had at the time. Thoth mostly speaks about being around in the Atlantean, and later Egyptian time, and there is a lot of wisdom in his words.

My own suspicion is that these creatures have been worshipped by different means through various dark religions throughout the ages. Saying only bloodshed would make them visible, which makes sense, as this is something that has been widely practiced. From Babylon, where it was the official religion, and through hebrew, roman, celtic, and even viking times (I guess to feed them for some kind of gain).
 
Speaking of blood, I've heard this topic discussed in terms of blood types. A little less mythological. There have been published theories regarding it and lots of online speculation. It is suggested in some places that lizard-like seems to be one of the characteristics associated with Rh-negative blood. That's what I keep reading. Various attempts have been made to tie together more mythological ideas with anthropological ones. It's kinda fascinating. I'd like to learn more about the topic but it's seldom discussed in a dispassionate way, so you get this hybrid of ideas that can become plain bizarre.
 
I think of lizard-people as a race of beings that come from other planets and live underground, etc. But I have also seen some suggest they are fourth-dimensional creatures. It's a tough nut to crack.
 
Xorkoth, I think I pretty much agree with your last post. I think a lot of the legends and prophecies of a golden age, orchestrated in part by sentient beings who work behind the scenes out of sight of us (for the most part), are crude metaphors for all of us having come from one source, to which we will all return when this is all over.

I've also been thinking a lot recently about people who seek power, at the expense of other people's wellbeing. From a spiritual perspective I think they're very sad people, because they fail to see that they're making great sacrifices in the name of something that can't possibly last -- their glory as separate individuals, i.e. their egos.
 
Xorkoth, I really like what you wrote about the possibility of overcoming these negative patterns. I believe that too, it's actually one of the few areas where I have a strong 'belief', when I usally try and practice a kind of generalized agnosticism. But I think we could look at it in a very practical way. Only in recent history we have started to acknowledge how much of an influence violence has on people. When we look at it through our modern sensibilities most, if not all, people of the past had a severely traumatizing childhood (and an adult life that often wasn't much better).
As everybody knows a child that is beaten by it's parents is likely to do the same to it's own child later on. Corporal punishment of children teaches on a small scale, what war, for example, teaches on a large scale: "Might is right." And we're only beginning to understand the implications of multigenerational trauma, for example my grandmother had to flee from eastern prussia at the end of world war 2 and it is very clear to me how much of her issues coming from that, have rubbed off on my mother. Surely it had an effect on me too, though I'm hardly in a position to see that clearly. All of which is to say, our growing understanding of psychological trauma and especially the emerging idea of "children should be raised without violence" have put us in a unique position in history, where we can finally (slowly) start changing these repeating patterns of violence and domination. I am optimistic. :)

Well that was slightly offtopic, sorry... What can I say about archons or djinns? I can certainly see it as a useful metaphor. But when taken literal, tbh it seems to me like externalizing problems that lie within. In my experience people tend to jump on every opportunity to blame 'the other', because it assures them that they themselves don't have to change. I don't think we can achieve a better world just by getting rid of something bad, we have to actively create that, which is good.
 
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