Supressing ASD (autism) with benzos or barbiturates and my theory on autism

[Anxious.Individual]

I personally suffer from mild ASD (diagnosed) , and it is now having a progressively more destructive effect on my life. While ASD makes remembering and learning a single topic super easy (psychoactive substances is my topic of choice), it make me anxious, causes me to express severe agitation and hyperactivity, inability to recognize human emotions, inability to come into close contact with humans and inability to feel empathy, it also makes me really disorganized. It is horrible. However, GABAergics change this for me.

When I take a benzo or a barb, it feels like I change from a heartless machine into a living human being. I experimented with more than a dozen of different benzos, both RX and RC, and the best benzo for ASD is Alprazolam, as a matter of fact, I'm on it right now and it is doing wonders.

I also experimented with barbiturates and carisoprodol (soma). Soma is pleasant, but not very effective for this condition. I had the opportunity to only try 2 different barbiturates, phenobarbital and primidone, both were even more effective than any benzo and lasted much longer, however the head-splitting hangover they give (especially primidone) is sort-of unpleasant and their limited availability makes them kind-of ineffective for everyday use.

All symptoms of my ASD are currently suppressed by alprazolam, which is the best benzo for me.

My theory is that ASD is caused by excessive levels of glutamate, which is why individuals with the mild variation of this condition have such great memory, and people with severe ASD have seizures due to the excitotoxicity of excessive glutamate levels. Excessive glutamate also leads to excessive dopamine, which results in severe agitation and psychosis. Enchannced GABA function and increased hyperpolarization decrease glutamate function and decrease depolarization, thereby suppressing autism. But this is just my theory. I hope you found this interesting.


Anxious.Individual

 

[aced126]

You're reasoning sounds coherent but I am not particularly learned in this topic and only know the very basics, so just wait until some others with more knowledge can comment.

Is there any literature which supports or suggests this hypothesis?

 

[RDP89]

Just because a gaba agonist helps the sypmtoms does not mean that gaba(and therefor glutamate) is necessarily the root of the problem. Also, I would advise to be careful of tolerance/rebound/addiction issues.

 

[dopamimetic]

Remarkable is that alprazolam appears to be the only benzodiazepine that's actually also a dopaminergic (and dopamine does limit glutamate throughput a bit)!

About GABA and autism: GABA system dysfunction in autism and related disorders: From synapse to symptoms

 

[Solipsis]

I think alprazolam just has a very effective pharmacological profile only considering GABAr subtypes..

Like the OP I have mild, high-functioning ASD and psychedelics / psychoactives (..pharma neuro philosoph etc connected to that yeah fascinating) have my dedicated focus.

I urge you not to structurally use alprazolam or other benzos. This I have done myself, it was fine for a while and I seemed to get away with it until I had only a job but my studies failed and shit spiraled. When I had this rough time I took benzos structurally to try and survive but ended up dependent on them, and coming off them again was so terribly agonizing and all in all took 2 years and professional help. Don't let that happen..

Actually I kind of subscribe to the glutamate key role for autism, although autism is also something that cannot be cured and need not be... because I do believe functional autism is just a different mode of being rather than an illness. The fact that we are in far minority makes the mismatch in behavior/interaction/interests/ }how you fit into the world painful - that much is true.

I would hate to suggest drugs, especially the kind of drugs dissociatives are, to a person... but those, NMDA antagonists, block glutamatergic receptors. Probably not all dissociatives are equally suitable for functional use, but some that act long and selective in the right ways help numb / dissociate certain things that are very sensitive in people with autism, or I should speak for myself.. dissociative use may take its own toll, and that toll may be chronic - but for now I am basically alternating GABAergics with sobriety and functional dissociatives to maintain and survive without physical dependencies such as benzos or opioids which I have both been through.

Also I take pregabalin which is prescribed, and fuck.. I would really hate it if that has a bitch of a withdrawal syndrome once it is time to get off of that.

Nootropics enhance glutamatergic transmission, but there are different kinds of glutamate receptors like AMPA and NMDA, which may help subtly tune your psychological functioning, but can also overload so be careful there.
The cholinergic involvement may also contribute a huge part, especially cognitively... this could make nootropics into adaptogens i.e. through better mental functioning coping and dealing with things may work better. I don't think nootropics have made matters, most I tried were quite benign IMO / IME.

Their action contradicts that of dissociatives (NMDA antagonists) though.

Each of these are tools.. please do not cut yourself with them and use anything in moderation, and when that gets difficult try smart alternating.
I don't want you to become like me, rather to avoid mistakes I made. Most of all, get professional guidance if you do not have that already. Although if you have a diagnosis, I have an inkling treatment (what though) followed?

 

[Captain.Heroin]

You're likely just self-medicating, and you should be warned that dependence and addiction are right around the corner.

 

[dopamimetic]

This begins to become interesting. Somehow I'm in between that borderline-personality thing and of what Solipsis describes. We both have the same overly positive reaction to dissociatives. Many professionals probably would say that autism & borderline are contradicting diagnoses, or?

Edit: Solipsis, what dosage of pregabalin are you taking and for how long? I can't tell it for sure but I remember that I felt it to be somewhat emotionally limiting over time, in a not-so-positive way and quite the opposite of what it does initially- becoming an anti-manic. Withdrawal isn't that bad when tapered correctly probably, at least for me it was really manageable- just a bit of restlessness, but no anxiety and such. Was on at least 600mg/d for 4+ months twice.

I do now think however that the whole excitatory system and especially NMDA (in which the gabapentinoids do fit somehow because NMDAR's are coupled with Ca channels & the gabapentionids are Ca channel blockers) has a strange tendency to be unpredictable. It's miles better than messing with GABA or opioids, but it has its catches.

Still have to think more about all before I can come up with a theory, but some points might be - NMDA appears to have a feedback loop. Antagonizing it leads to more glutamate release (and this could imply downstream GABA changes) <-- this I currently believe might be the reason why NMDA antagonists don't follow classical tolerance / rebound / withdrawal, because they are inhibitory and excitatory at the same time. An ideal one would block its own tolerance development.

But there can be a nasty rebound excitation. I got into this recently when I've messed with 3-MeO-PCP & others, and literally within 2-3 minutes I went from being completely normal into a state of absolute panic that caused an ER admission, my relationship to broke up and all ... I didn't have seizures, but was enormously over-excitated and responded only to really huge dosages of benzodiazepines. Don't remember how much it was, but it was much, and given IV. This didn't even sedate me, but just bring me back.

The same, but much more predictable (at least when you know about it) also happened with memantine. Stopping it abruptly caused an excitation creeping up for a few days, almost unnoticeable but at a certain point it was triggered by a situation of fear - again, panic. 8mg of lorazepam over the day did not much (I suspect because it's not a GABA agonist but an allosteric modulator). Clonidine helped though.

Well, now I know that I shouldn't stop dissociatives abruptly. It's probably easy to dose them down, but one needs to know how.

 

[Solipsis]

I'm not a professional.. but I think people with autism and borderliners are kind of a classical 'romantic' match (also according to a therapist who is an acquaintance of mine) by virtue of the complementary personality traits... The constance of flegmatism vs the lively energy e.g. at least initially, but eventually - as always - the rest of the match-up rears its head. In any case borderliners are notorious for resistance to any kind of settling. Also I have experience with this match up, lol.

 

[Memantine]

I have Aspergers syndrome and I also find great relieve in Alprazolam. It feels great to just be in the real world and not being trapped in my brain with a 1000 thoughts per minute. Other medication that did wonders to my autism were:

Pregabalin 450-600mg
Dextromethorphan 300mg
Alprazolam + low dose psilocybin
Methylphenidate


Here I have an interesting article about autism:
The intense world theory
http://journal.frontiersin.org/article/10.3389/fnhum.2010.00224/full

And another article about glutamate and autism:
Immune-Glutamatergic Dysfunction as a Central Mechanism of the Autism Spectrum Disorders
http://www.autizmus.cz/admin/upload/files/r4318-2009-10-22-17-27-19-07.pdf

 

[dopamimetic]

Dextromethorphan 300mg

Now that's interesting too. Would you mind to share your experiences with DXM, how long did you take it and how were its effects?
And from your name, have you tried memantine yet?

Somehow these dissociatives appear to be effective for a few differing 'diagnosis' of which nobody would think that the same drugs could help ...

but I think people with autism and borderliners are kind of a classical 'romantic' match

Hmm, yeah. So being in-between would fit with that I have a hard time to find matches at all ... if this makes sense. I want the diagnosis of NMDA dysfunction. This is more technical.

 

[Memantine]

Well I started off with 150mg DXM which didn't really do a lot.

Then I moved on to 300mg and about 1.5 hours after I took it I started to feel very hot, itchy and under pressure. But after another 30 minutes I would get this strong sense of relieve (because of DXO conversion i presume). I would have a blurred tunnelvision and my coordination was somewhat affected. The world just seemed far away and not scary anymore. If people stood close to me I wouldn't feel intimidated. Also I was much more sociable than I am sober wise.

One time I took 450mg and this was just too much. I felt very dissociated and I could hardly speak anymore. Multiple people asked me if I was alright because my eyes were red and my face was pale. I started to have double vision. For some reason I was convinced that my life was over. I was sure that they were going to take me to the hospital and I would die there. If I closed my eyes I was completely off this planet, as if I was floating in space.

But at the moment I quit because I started to get panic attacks in those first 30 minutes. Probably due to DXM's SNRI activity.

I asked my psychiatrist multiple times for memantine but he is reluctant to give it to me for some reason. Therefore I now take alprazolam and pregabalin. Pregabalin also has some anti-glutameric effect by increasing the Glutamic Acid Decarboxylase enzyme concentration. Furthermore the interaction with the auxiliary α2δ subunit of voltage-sensitive Ca2+ channels (VSCC's) results in decreased glutamate release from the presynaptic cell.

Pregabaline has some of the features of DXM in my experience. I also feel uncoordinated and less anxious + there is some kind of psychedelic touch to pregabalin. I believe I had some mild hallucinations on 450mg pregabalin.

 

[Solipsis]

It is also worth noting that in the onset period of a drug you have taken before (especially the more you have taken it) your body can do a lot of things to oppose the to be expected effect. This may not be a great explanation for those panic attacks but perhaps it didn't help either.

Memantine is indicated for Alzheimer's iirc, not for anxiety like pregabalin is. Actually I must say I was a bit nonplussed to hear from my psychiatrist that it wasn't much of a problem to prescribe me pregabalin, I expected it to be sort of skirting the off-label side.

And yeah when I take enough pregabalin I do get extraordinary effects, a bit like seeing / feeling static energies - pretty relaxed ones washing back and forth in the brain-mind-psyche.

The discoordination / ataxia / anxiolysis you feel that DXM share with pregabalin are probably mostly coincidence imo.

 

[dopamimetic]

Yeah, pregabalin & DXM don't have anything in common from their mode of effects (DXM is a calcium channel blocker too though, but a weak one).

But I don't get it why so many doctors have a problem with prescribing memantine. It's less addictive than pregabalin (technically it's non-addictive and not really abusable, pregabalin has potential for withdrawal and needs titration), and it can have good effects on anxiety etc. as it's a mild NMDA antagonist. The off-label thing should be only a problem when it comes to the insurances in my eyes (that in the end you'd have to pay the meds by yourself, as I had to with memantine), not for the doctors, nobody will ever watch them why they prescribe something and for what - but many are quite wary, yes.

 

[Xzbtya]

I'd be curious of phenibut has any therapeutic benefits to those who have stated that pregabalin has helped aboved. Its very recently been found that its GABA-B agonism only play a minor role of in its mode of action and its actual pharmacology is more akin the gabapentine and pregabalin. Only one isomer has high affinity for GABA-B but both play a role in its overall action.

 

[Solipsis]

Phenibut helped me quite a bit but I don't think it's ever been enough for me on its own. Perhaps in conjunction, I'm not sure..

Also, what is 'enough' for me is of course highly dependent on the amount of stress I suffer from and well its been difficult. Phenibut may very well be enough leading a stable enough life.

Yes about it being a calcium channel blocker, I just made a thread about it pretty surprising, next thing you know half of the stuff you thought were GABA agents act on vdccs no jk