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Lysergamides The Big & Dandy LSM-775 (Lysergic Acid Morpholide) Thread

Solipsis said:
Want to point out that (while I have no experience with LSM yet) sedation with lysergamides is not unheard of, just look at LSA-containing seeds. Lethargic woozy high dreams... is that not a possible description for both LSA's as well as morphine?

Considering there are no lysergamides with micromolar affinity for opioid receptors - that I know of - it is pretty unlikely that modifying a diethyl amide into the morpholide would suddenly lend it that property. I would need to see some seriously compelling evidence to suspect that.

Not really sure what lethargic dreamy trips from pharmacologically different drugs share in action, if necessarily anything. The 'how you feel is a poor way to actually tell' sentiment is a good one, one that I would echo. Nevertheless, I am interested to hear if the sedated feeling is anything like that of LSA-seeds.

@LSP being more likely: it would not be UK legal, would it? I think "Lysergide and other N-alkyl derivatives of lysergamide" is in the misuse of drugs act, and LSP would be covered.
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This... There's still debates going on that MXE hits kappa+u opioid receptors, but anyone who's done MXE can and will tell you it defintely doesn't....
 
I got some of this in the mail a few days ago and made blotter dosed around 1.1-1.2 mg. Today I had the chance to try it and took 1 hit. I was alone throughout the trip. I have experience with various psychedelics. I've tried LSD, 1p-LSD, AL-LAD, ETH-LAD, LSZ, HBWR, and other psychedelics.

I started feeling it pretty quickly. It has a fast come up. It usually takes me at least 2 1/2 hours to reach the peak of a lysergamide trip, but I was peaking within an hour.

About 10 minutes after I took it I noticed a body high and some nausea. My vision started to look a little acidy. Things looked softer and colors were more vibrant. I laid on the couch listening to Bardo Pond and as I was coming up there was a lot of music enhancement.

As the effects became stronger I noticed some sound distortion. I heard a lot of strange whooshing sounds. Colors looked very earthy, almost sepia toned, but still very rich and vibrant. It seemed very "natural". It felt very dreamy and sedating. It was pretty visual. I noticed a lot of size and shape distortion and saw fractal patterns. I've read that the visual and psychedelic effects of LSM are weak, but they were very prominent for me. All my senses were enhanced. It has a very sensual feeling like acid.

Unfortunately the nausea started to become very unpleasant and the sickness became overwhelming. My heart was beating fast and I became very sweaty. I felt like I might pass out. I tested my blood pressure and it was high. I tried to throw up but couldn't.

I went downstairs and laid on the couch for a while and the sedative effect was very strong. I was drifting in and out of consciousness. I haven't tried dissociatives or opioids, so I can't say how similar it is in effect, but it was much different from other psychedelics I've tried. I was experiencing very bad nausea the whole time and it was extremely unpleasant.

Laying there on the verge of passing out and feeling like I had to throw up felt extremely similar to being way too drunk. I couldn't wait for it to be over. I ate some ginger before the trip but it didn't help at all. Whenever i got up and moved around i felt very sick so I just laid on the couch for a long time and drifted in and out of consciousness. I put a trash can next to the couch in case I had to throw up.

After about 2 hours of laying there I suddenly had to vomit. Afterwards I felt slightly better but still pretty bad.

I started feeling a little better after a few hours but the positive effects didn't ever really outweigh the feelings of sickness. At least it doesn't last as long as acid.

LSM is the most unique lysergamide I've tried. It's more like LSZ than anything else I've tried. It felt more like a tryptamine than other lysergamides do. There was a lot of spatial distortion.

Overall it was definitely not worth it. LSM is unique but for the most part it was a horrible experience. It was pretty psychedelic but the body load was much worse than any other psychedelic I've tried. It was so bad I threw away the rest of my LSM while I was tripping. It's basically like drinking way too much but also being on acid at the same time.

2c-e, mushrooms, mescaline, and HBWR have given me uncomfortable amounts of nausea before but none of them come anywhere close to LSM. I really wouldn't recommend trying it, but if you do, you should start with a low dose. It's going to be sold as 1000mcg blotter. I would recommend taking no more than half a hit to try it out.
 
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Interesting, cj18. Do you think that ondansetron, or maybe something like diphenhydramine, could possibly have helped enough to make it a worthwhile experience?
 
I don't know. The body load was so bad I really doubt anything could get rid of it, but I don't have any experience with anti-nausea medication. Ginger didn't help. If it weren't for the nausea it would definitely be a worthwhile experience but I'm not willing to try LSM again.
 
Damn, sounds harsh, cj187. :\ Thanks for the report. It's definitely not looking too great to me right now... but the "more like a tryptamine than other lysergamides" sentiment is somewhat interesting.
 
It was an interesting experience. I agree with Sir Ron Pib that it feels like it could be a natural plant entheogen. It somehow reminded me of 5-meo-dmt.

I'm wondering if I took a higher dose than I thought. Reports I've read made it sound like LSM is not very visual, but I was pretty impressed by the visuals. There was a quite a bit of distortion of size and shape and distance, and colors looked very beautiful. There was a lot of auditory distortion too. I didn't weigh out the powder when I got it so it's possible that I got more than I ordered.
 
I dunno, for some reason I really want to try this one. I've never really been to excited about the other lysergamides (although I'd like to try ETH-LAD)...but this one really peaks my interests. Sounds like a morning glory seed trip to me in every way. Sign me up please!
 
Seems like making this is a waste of good lsd. The price is really high for something you need almost mg or more for a dose. I don't know why they would make this instead of, pro lad, lsb, or lsp ( which might not be much better). I could only imagine how bad the nausea would have been from ingesting that much material.
 
It's not a waste of LSD, it doesn't require LSD to make (I assume not anyway). But yeah, I'd have preferred any of those 3 you mentioned too (especially PRO-LAD). Still it's exciting someone is making all these lysergamides that only existed as a sparkle in our eyes before.
 
Yeah, I'd prefer any of those too. I have a hunch that LSP and/or LSB are going to be complete winners. I did think that about LSZ too, though, and it's the only lysergamide I didn't like. I think it's a safe bet, that PRO-LAD is going to be something very, very close to ETH-LAD and AL-LAD.

I think the reason they haven't synthesized any of the mentioned, is because there's probably some difficulty in producing a large batch. As I understood it, scaling up ETH-LAD was rather difficult too, and it did take them quite a while to get it right.

I'm still not sure if I'll get some LSM just to have it in the collection, it doesn't sound too exciting.
 
So what happens to the morpholide ring in your body? Does it do what i think it does and get opened up at the oxygen, or does it stay intact?
 
I wonder if this was synthesized as a way to salvage a failed synth of some other lysergamide? It doesn't make a lot of commercial sense to synth this because of it's low potency, and it's - let's say "off the beaten path" effects profile. I'll be surprised if we ever see this molecule again once it's gone, so it's a pretty special opportunity for collectors and seekers of the exotic and rare.

I'd definitely give this a try if it came my way, but not sure I'm ready to commit to an order of it.

So far it seems (to me) like the most interesting lysergamides have been r6 subbed ones like ETH-LAD and AL-LAD. It would be pretty great to see PRO-LAD some day, and maybe even PARGY-LAD (whether or not the previous batch was real). I wonder if r6 halogen subbed lysergamides would be possible? I seem to remember TIHKAL mentioning flouroeth-LAD.
 
@rave23: Not sure if that's easy to say, but I think the morpholiNe ring may undergo one of several metabolisms, some major and some minor... total deamination and detachment of that ring / cleavage of C-N bond also so opening near the nitrogen [seems like the nitrogen will be a much more reactive position] / possibly involving N-oxidation of that same nitrogen... but who knows, morpholinamides like these may be rather special undergoing some conjugation or other intermediate states not possible with the more simple compounds like morpholine on its own..
Are you just curious? Cause I think it won't be a big enough dose anyway to worry about freeroaming morpholine..

@perpetualdawn:
Hmm yeah will easily go into synth discussion, but rather than 'failed' experiments which probably tend to yield a lot of gunk you really don't wanna continue with I guess normally it would have been somewhat likely that availability of reagents revealed an opportunity. We also will avoid source discussion but I think they are professional enough that this wouldn't be true and it just might be a side project. Also may involve UK laws... so many find UK and their laws so relevant and UK has big history with RCs of course. Just one of those things.
 
I was told by the manufacturer that adding a morpholide ring dramatically decrease potency. And this was discussed over a year ago before 1p-lsd was released. Basically he said one you remove the diethyamide the potency and efectivity drops dramatically. So its been around for a while but was just now released. I haven't seen it in the UK nor anyone offering UK customers access that I know of. If they made blotters I might try it, but no way I'm buying that much crystal for something that is rare and quite special, but not special enough for me. This took a skilled chemist to make so it is amazing its available.
 
The diethyl on the amide (i.e. LSD) was of course first found to be great and potent, then with LSZ, most specifically the R,R enantiomer, it was found that there is an optimal way for the "antlers" to stick out, namely quite lateral, by constraining them and checking which form is primarily active.

With the morpholide, you also basically bind/constrain the diethyl antlers together, but at the tip so that you are basically shaping them in a relatively unfortunate way: not lateral. LSD-Pip and LSD-Pyr will probably be similar in these respects but worse. Of course the reality is not this oversimplified and each of these chemicals has characteristics of its own. By making an azetidine or morpholine bridge you change the whole thing, you cannot magically constrain without actual modification.

I must say though, that I wonder about the 2,6-dimethylmorpholide, the methyls would still give you that lateral antler vibe : P

The inferior binding to 5HT2A also does not explain the reported side-effects, that would just reduce efficacy and potency, and as consequence subjective intensity... Instead, it may be more promiscuous in binding to other receptors compared to LSD, but don't really have an initial clue which.
 
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Solipsis said:
The inferior binding to 5HT2A also does not explain the reported side-effects, that would just reduce efficacy and potency, and as consequence subjective intensity... Instead, it may be more promiscuous in binding to other receptors compared to LSD, but don't really have an initial clue which.
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Yes this is how I interpreted the reports as well; it's binding less efficiently to 5HT2A, because of the clumsy morpholide in the place of the diethyl (which is shown to be the critical spot for 5HT2A docking, like you said) - but maybe remaining efficient on other receptors, so that the effects are something like acid with less 5HT2A action. Acid with the "trippy" knob turned down.

Great info Solipsis
 
Reports of both the effects and potency of this one are strongly reminiscent of natural LSAs a la hawaiian baby woodrose or morning glory seeds.

I'm leaning towards the suspicion that the morpholide is opening up and maybe getting lopped off. Consider that ergometrine--one of the more powerfully psychoactive LSAs found in natural sources--is the N-isopropanolamide, and that cleavage at the N a second time could produce the unsubstituted LSA ergine, which is the most abundant LSA in natural sources.

We could also explain the relatively higher active dose by only partial metabolism to an active compound.

Which isn't necessarily a bad thing--LSA is powerful stuff, and actually gave me the best trip of my lifetime.

But that also bodes VERY poorly for the bodyload--some psychedelics cause nausea on the comeup, or induce a purge... but in my experience of LSA, even during those moments of insight and clarity in the best and most productive trips... The nausea is always there. Not in the background. You don't forget about it. You just choose to ignore it .
 
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morninggloryseed said:
I dunno, for some reason I really want to try this one. I've never really been to excited about the other lysergamides (although I'd like to try ETH-LAD)...but this one really peaks my interests. Sounds like a morning glory seed trip to me in every way. Sign me up please!
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I guess coz it's related to ergine which has clearly been influential - be interested to know if it's similar. Personally AL/ETH are worthwhile if you like LSD
 
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cj187 said:
It was an interesting experience. I agree with Sir Ron Pib that it feels like it could be a natural plant entheogen. It somehow reminded me of 5-meo-dmt.

I'm wondering if I took a higher dose than I thought. Reports I've read made it sound like LSM is not very visual, but I was pretty impressed by the visuals. There was a quite a bit of distortion of size and shape and distance, and colors looked very beautiful. There was a lot of auditory distortion too. I didn't weigh out the powder when I got it so it's possible that I got more than I ordered.
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Tuned in to see how this was fairing - surprised there isn't more interest but interested by your comments so thanks; I am not sure I would call the bodyload that bad for the most part but you can certainly feel it - nausea as such I don't worry too much about - it's common with many right up to ayahuasca and Iboga which are clearly amazing and a small price to pay; ayahuasca made me see the whole nausea issue a bit different
 
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