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Mental Health Psychiatric Treatments Debate vs trot out your medications bias and lemme at it

I am not sure if this article is accurate or not but the figures are highly alarming. Psychiatry is doing something wrong if they think they can medicate for ADHD or anxiety in a toddler. At that age the brain is still developing so surely some corrective therapy or improved parenting would be beneficial. I can't see drugs being of any long term benefit, just a lazy way out for the parents to control (or quieten down) their kids.

http://www.educationviews.org/watch...370000-toddlers-prescribed-psychiatric-drugs/
 
I am not sure if this article is accurate or not but the figures are highly alarming. Psychiatry is doing something wrong if they think they can medicate for ADHD or anxiety in a toddler. At that age the brain is still developing so surely some corrective therapy or improved parenting would be beneficial. I can't see drugs being of any long term benefit, just a lazy way out for the parents to control (or quieten down) their kids.

http://www.educationviews.org/watch...370000-toddlers-prescribed-psychiatric-drugs/

The lungs and pancreas are still developing in toddlers, but we still prescribe them asthma medication or insulin for diabetes if they need it.

I'm not explicitly pro medicating toddlers for ADHD (and I agree with behavioural therapy being the first line of defence, which it is) but I think that a blanket ban based on them being "too young for medication" or ideas of "lazy parenting" is reductive and cruel. Severe ADHD is debilitating illness for some people and they can't just think their way out of it. If nothing else works and medication does, it's not fair to deprive that kid of a functional and included childhood because the idea of kids taking medication squicks you out.
 
The lungs and pancreas are still developing in toddlers, but we still prescribe them asthma medication or insulin for diabetes if they need it.

I'm not explicitly pro medicating toddlers for ADHD (and I agree with behavioural therapy being the first line of defence, which it is) but I think that a blanket ban based on them being "too young for medication" or ideas of "lazy parenting" is reductive and cruel. Severe ADHD is debilitating illness for some people and they can't just think their way out of it. If nothing else works and medication does, it's not fair to deprive that kid of a functional and included childhood because the idea of kids taking medication squicks you out.

They are medicating people under the age of 12 months. Is an accurate diagnosis possible? I have my doubts about ADHD even being a legit illness. The consequences of this medication will be lifelong and the children have no say in what is being done to them at that age. A complete lack of consent. I very much doubt anyone could live a functional life after being medicated with these drugs as an adult, let alone from such a vulnrable age.

Lazy parenting is real, I have already posted an article in this thread above regarding this issue. If the parents can't handle the responsibility then take the kids off them.
 
I very much doubt anyone could live a functional life after being medicated with these drugs

You keep repeating this kind of statement, and it's false. Just by posting in this forum, you're interacting with a number of people who have taken them, and we're all living functional lives.

ADHD is very much a legit illness, and it has nothing to do with lazy parenting. Of course there are lazy parents out there, and the illness isn't as well-understood as it should be, but it is very real. It requires a different approach to learning, but frequently that is not enough on its own. Like bipolar or schizophrenia, medication is often needed to treat it at a fundamental level.

And consent really isn't an issue - the legal guardian is always the one who makes the decisions. Babies don't consent to receive vitamin K when they are born, and toddlers don't consent to receive vaccines.
 
I hate how everyone has a bunch of acronyms "I am ABC, DE, and FGHI" psych people are so quick to label. We need less labels and less meds. I think rather than " GAD PTSD panic disorder" it should be "anxiety prone" or something for example. Also, enough with the SSRI's. they rarely work, I'm glad they help some people, but long term they fuck people up. And really, statistically about as good as a placebo. Not to mention most antipsychotics are the drug equivalent of lobotomy.

It's a tough field to navigate, but antipsychotics are nasty and should never be used except for the most extreme cases of people who would be dangerous to themselves or others. And using them forcefully against people's wills in institutions should be a crime, I admit I don't have much to say as an alternative... But there are other ways

Don't even get me started on ADHD, put a kid in a box 13 years in a row, forcing their mind to learn in an unnatural way, and if they squirm a little "something's wrong with them" "some speed should help, right?"

I don't think any kid should be diagnosed or prescribed anything before 16-19 (even that's before the mind is fully formed) for a huge range of reasons. The heavy psych drugs further fuck their poor minds, possibly permanently enslaving them to a lifetime of revolving door psych treatments. Every teenager has problems and unless it is very, very extenuating circumstances, it should be dealt with without drugs and labels.


There are exceptions to all these of course, but living in USA has shown me the worst. We use the most extreme punishments for people who need help. Criminals, addicts, mentally ill. Our prison system is overflowing and one of the worst in the world, same with our psych wards, our addiction treatments, and the pharm industry... Don't even get me started. So much for being an advanced nation...
 
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To me the problem is that the field has split into 2 totally different specialties. Therapists who make a living providing talk therapy and phychiastrists who make a living writing prescriptions. If they where condensed into one job I feel there would be less financial interest in pushing pills.
 
I've seen some great responses here. Rather than quoting other people etc., I'm just going to give you my thoughts.

I get the impression that a fair number of people go without diagnosis or treatment for conditions like anxiety & depression these days. That's more to do with peoples general lack awareness of mental health problems, or reluctance to seek help rather than psychiatric treatment though.

However, for those who do seek help from GPs for common problems like these, I believe there is still a tendency for GPs to be rather trigger happy in prescribing medication. The amount of people on SSRIs is rising to quite shocking levels in both the UK & the US I believe. It's great that doctors are recognizing their problems & seeking to improve their lives but I think often they are going about this the wrong way. People should always be encouraged to try making changing to their diet & lifestyles first to try and remedy the problems. Personally speaking, my GP did exactly that, booking me a double appointment & taking the time to talk things through with me. I'm not too sure how common practice this is, despite the fact GPs are advised only to prescribe medications to those with serious problems.

The next course of action should in theory be to offer people with milder problems various forms of therapy, instead of jumping on the medication bandwagon. However, I believe there is a serious lack of provisions for offering therapy on that scale over here so more often than not, it is not even offered. Even for those on medication, I believe it is of utmost importance to offer therapy alongside it... medication is just like a band aid, it'll relieve your symptoms but it won't get to the route of the problem & give people the coping mechanisms to make lasting changes to their situation.

In general, I also believe there is a tendency to over-medicate people. Certainly there have been two different scenarios in which this happened to me. Firstly, was when I first went on APs. The psychiatrist I was seeing then was hell bent on eradicating my symptoms completely despite getting increasingly worse side effects from the increases in dosage of medication. What made it all the more baffling was that my symptoms weren't even that severe to begin with. Secondly, when I went on SSRIs for GAD, I was supposed to go up to the maximum dose of Citalopram. However, in the end I disregarded that & stayed on a lower dose which ended up being more than sufficient. I've learnt from these experiences & am now pretty insistent with my new psychiatrist about staying on the lowest effective dose of mediations... thankfully something with which he full heartedly agreed.

Over the years I've also seen worrying posts on various forums from people who are on higher than the maximum recommended dose of their SSRIs or APs. Those ceilings are there for safety reasons & it's pretty shocking that some people are being prescribed over and above that limit. I'll admit they are in the minority, but it just shouldn't be happening....

Another thing I am a bit undecided on, is the prescribing of multiple APs. To my knowledge, there has not been shown to be any benefit in doing so over medicating with just a single AP yet it still takes place. The way I see it, it's just increasing the chance of getting a wealth of potentially nasty side effects for what amounts to probably little additional benefit. If anyone has found success on multiple APs though, I would be interested to hear about it. Then of course there is the use of oral APs PRN... I'm not really sure how effective they can be that way but I suppose the more sedating APs may help by means of knocking one out.

This also goes in general as well where multiple medications may be prescribed for one reason & another. I've seen some lists of medications people are on that are horrifically long & conversely also stories of those who have cut back massively on the number of meds they are on with no worsening of their symptoms, or even seeing improvements.

I guess overall my main qualms are that medication seems to too often be the automatic response in tackling peoples mental health problems when in reality there can be some much healthier & productive ways of dealing with them. Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-medication, I believe it truly can be a game changer for those most in need but it just shouldn't be the first line approach & when they are used, should be done so with the patients overall wellbeing in mind & with the view that less is more.
 
Diet, exercise, and lifestyle changes should be implemented and tried (really tried, not walking on the treadmill for 10 minutes and saying exercise doesn't help) before any pharmaceutical action is taken. Also, we should be looking for the ROOT of the problem, and not just medicating to symptoms.

I had a friend who went psychotic. She has some kind of food allergy and some leaky gut thing going on, and a naturopathic doctor, who was also an MD, fixed her up and tapered her off her meds, and she's alive and thriving now, med free. What if she was just kept on her abilify, seroquel, vyvanse (yea try and figure that one out- giving amphetamine to a psychotic person), and xanax combo? She'd be a zombie not achieving anything.

We need to find the SOURCE of these problems.

Meditation is also great. It allows you to see the insanity of the mind of can help center one's self.

Where I'm getting at is there are countless modalities to try before surrendering to medication. We don't even know how these medications work, just theories. We don't know long term side effects for some of the newer anti-depressants or anything. We don't even know what causes depression or anxiety or psychosis.

I'm rambling
 
I see a lot of (really valid) critique of medication, but not a lot on how CBT is (at least in the UK) pushed to an unhealthy extent sometimes.

I had five years of CBT, I understand it pretty well and really, really tried at it, doesn't work for me.

With my most recent bout of depression I've had to really fight to get a treatment that isn't CBT (and even then, all I have is one appointment in two weeks to discuss other treatment options, that took me 8 months to get). I was originally referred for CBT, I told them I didn't want any more of it, I was told there was nothing else that could be done. Months later, attempted suicide, told in hospital that CBT is really great for depression! Snippily responded that I'd had 5 years of it and I wanted to explore other treatment options. Despite a suicide attempt I was told if CBT hadn't worked for me in the past then I "just didn't understand CBT", I explained it, I was then told "okay, maybe you do understand CBT... Maybe sometimes you just have to stay depressed" "it's been 10 years" "and it might be 10 more". Offered no further treatment. I wish I was exaggerating.

Rant over but yeah. Talk therapy can be just as aggressively prescribed even when it isn't in the person's best interest.

Also SSRIs seem over-prescribed and it's worrying they're a first line of treatment in depression, especially given they can be dangerous to people with bipolar and most people with bipolar are originally misdiagnosed with depression...
 
I see a lot of (really valid) critique of medication, but not a lot on how CBT is (at least in the UK) pushed to an unhealthy extent sometimes.

I had five years of CBT, I understand it pretty well and really, really tried at it, doesn't work for me.

With my most recent bout of depression I've had to really fight to get a treatment that isn't CBT (and even then, all I have is one appointment in two weeks to discuss other treatment options, that took me 8 months to get). I was originally referred for CBT, I told them I didn't want any more of it, I was told there was nothing else that could be done. Months later, attempted suicide, told in hospital that CBT is really great for depression! Snippily responded that I'd had 5 years of it and I wanted to explore other treatment options. Despite a suicide attempt I was told if CBT hadn't worked for me in the past then I "just didn't understand CBT", I explained it, I was then told "okay, maybe you do understand CBT... Maybe sometimes you just have to stay depressed" "it's been 10 years" "and it might be 10 more". Offered no further treatment. I wish I was exaggerating.

Rant over but yeah. Talk therapy can be just as aggressively prescribed even when it isn't in the person's best interest.

Also SSRIs seem over-prescribed and it's worrying they're a first line of treatment in depression, especially given they can be dangerous to people with bipolar and most people with bipolar are originally misdiagnosed with depression...

I've had similar experiences with "mindfulness". If I went to a doctor and said my medication wasn't working, the response would be "Let's try a different medication" or "let's increase the dose" or even "sometimes they don't work for everyone - you might need to just live with your symptoms."

When I've told therapists that mindfulness meditation doesn't work for me, the answer has universally been "You must be doing it wrong."

I don't need talk therapy. I have plenty of people to talk to and I'm on top of processing negative thoughts in a productive manner. When I'm correctly medicated, I'm a high-functioning, positive, outgoing person. I work, I study, I have good diet and exercise practices, and I've been in a healthy relationship for ten years. It's fine with me that the medical model doesn't work for some other people, but for me? I need a psychiatrist to prescribe my medication and monitor my feedback on side effects and symptoms of my clinically diagnosed illness. That's it.
 
I don't need talk therapy. I have plenty of people to talk to and I'm on top of processing negative thoughts in a productive manner. When I'm correctly medicated, I'm a high-functioning, positive, outgoing person. I work, I study, I have good diet and exercise practices, and I've been in a healthy relationship for ten years. It's fine with me that the medical model doesn't work for some other people, but for me? I need a psychiatrist to prescribe my medication and monitor my feedback on side effects and symptoms of my clinically diagnosed illness. That's it.

Me too. I've done boatloads of talk therapy in my life, and while it helped me sort out a lot of things in my 20's, it did nothing to solve the physical aspects of the illness. I, too, have reached a point where talk therapy does nothing for me; it's all about the physical symptoms and how they interfere with my life. I actually think that talk therapy had some negative consequences in how I dealt with my illness early on, because it gave too much meaning to the thoughts I was having. The whole thing about bipolar is that the thoughts and emotions are malfunctioning; I was always trying to question my agitation and my anger to see what the root of it was, when the truth was that there never was any kind of external trigger for the symptoms I was experiencing. It wasn't until well into my 30's that I realized that my symptoms were much more primal than that - whatever was around me, that's what they'd attach themselves to. In other words, it wasn't anything around me that was aggravating my symptoms, it was my bipolar poisoning the way I thought about everything.

A lot of people say that psych drugs just treat symptoms without dealing with the root of the problem, but with something like bipolar, the symptoms ARE the problem. It didn't matter what I changed in my life, how much I worked out, how well I ate or how good my relationships were, the symptoms would always recur, and by trying to talk therapy my way out of it, I was justifying them. With someone like me, medication IS the fix to the root of the problem.
 
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Me too. I've done boatloads of talk therapy in my life, and while it helped me sort out a lot of things in my 20's, it did nothing to solve the physical aspects of the illness. I, too, have reached a point where talk therapy does nothing for me; it's all about the physical symptoms and how they interfere with my life. I actually think that talk therapy had some negative consequences in how I dealt with my illness early on, because it gave too much meaning to the thoughts I was having. The whole thing about bipolar is that the thoughts and emotions are malfunctioning; I was always trying to question my agitation and my anger to see what the root of it was, when the truth was that there never was any kind of external trigger for the symptoms I was experiencing. It wasn't until well into my 30's that I realized that my symptoms were much more primal than that - whatever was around me, that's what they'd attach themselves to. In other words, it wasn't anything around me that was aggravating my symptoms, it was my bipolar poisoning the way I thought about everything.

Yep. I've had some really unpleasant episodes where I've gotten caught up in trying to "think my way out of it" in the past - convinced that if I can just "address" and "process" the thinking patterns, then the overwhelming emotions will recede. It's bullshit. What I needed to do was take my medication, go the fuck to bed, and make an appointment with my psychiatrist in the morning.

A lot of people say that psych drugs just treat symptoms without dealing with the root of the problem, but with something like bipolar, the symptoms ARE the problem. It didn't matter what I changed in my life, how much I worked out, how well I ate or how good my relationships were, the symptoms would always recur, and by trying to talk therapy my way out of it, I was justifying them. With someone like me, medication IS the fix to the root of the problem.

I agree with you 100%. I'm actually a bit insulted by the idea that my bipolar diagnosis *must mean* that I'm just shit at working out my problems and that I need help to stop myself getting so worked up. No, I just have a problem with my brain meats that makes my emotions too big unless I take mood stabilisers. It'll happen regardless of how much I talk about my feels.
 
I'd also like to point out that contrary to the cliche, mood stabilizers don't turn one into a zombie. Like you said, I'm much more outgoing and functional when I'm on my meds. Ordinary emotions like happy and sad have nothing to do with it. Bipolar has a life of its own, and the longer the swings are left untreated, the wilder and more chaotic they become. It's like being on fire vs. not being on fire.

I think of bipolar like a nuclear reaction. As long as it stays with certain parameters (and it's a pretty wide range), it's all good. Too high or too low is when the reaction gets out of control and eventually culminatines in meltdown. A mood stabilizer like Seroquel XR trims off the outer edges and keeps the reaction within normal parameters, like an ordinary person. I still experience the wide and wonderful range of human emotions while on mood stabilizers, moreso than I do when I'm off them.
 
Just to clarify: the literature concurs that talk therapy in conjunction with medication is the most effective method of treating serious mental illness.
 
It's like being on fire vs. not being on fire.

I love this analogy. It makes me think of a person who is on fire sitting in a therapists office while the therapist tells them to do deep breathing exercises.

I still experience the wide and wonderful range of human emotions while on mood stabilizers, moreso than I do when I'm off them.

I'm pretty confused when people tell me that "everyone" on mood stabilisers or antipsychotics experiences emotional blunting or is a "zombie". Like I wouldn't notice if I didn't have feelings? I've experienced both happiness so strong it felt like I'd touched god and crushing sadness so intense that I lay on the floor of the supermarket until the supermarket had me removed by paramedics. I have bipolar - I very much know what feelings feel like! Now I just have feelings at normal human levels that fit in my head without killing me.

Just to clarify: the literature concurs that talk therapy in conjunction with medication is the most effective method of treating serious mental illness.

Yes, but that doesn't mean this is the combination that works for everyone. Just that it's the combination that is most effective in a statistically significant majority of people. There's plenty of room in that statement for some people to respond to medication and not to therapy.
 
It's not that talk therapy doesn't have a role; it's that it can be a very overrated way to treat something like clinical bipolar. It had its uses in my 20's when I knew very little about my illness and had nobody to talk to, but now that I have much more knowledge and good people in my life that I can open up with, it doesn't have any use.
 
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I think it is a sham.

But in my observation it is really sets people for failure, whether ruining the patient's brains ability to naturally produce chemicals and functions or just flat out pharmaceutical lobotomization, or making youth more susceptible to drug abuse. I have seen people ruin there lives in record time through antidepressants or other psych meds.

There is something nefariously wrong with that system and the repercussions from it will only get worse as with each graduating class of kids the Rx's only get higher and higher, so any potential problems and the negative effects on people and society will only get worse.

If they truly believe in their own practice than I feel that they should be subject to yearly psych screenings as I have seen first hand that people in the industry can get just as crazy as their patients if not worse in some cases.
 
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Do antipsychotics make you feel better?

I was on an antipsychotic regimen a while back about a few months ago. I stopped without ever telling my doctor. But I was feeling cold chills, rapid heartbeat and chest pain. Also, I take a little bit of caffeine but I am trying to taper it down. I decided to give in and searched my stash for 10 mg of zyprexa. I ate some food and drank some fluid and it has only been a half hour, but I am feeling much better now. I guess the doctor really knew what he was doing all along. I thought this drug was all mental but it turns out, it makes me physically feel better. Do these antipsychotic drugs have some kind of intrinsic benefit that I don't know about. If that is the case, I will listen and take them as needed. Thanks!
 
Always take your meds when it comes to antipsychotics. They tend to be given only when necessary, so long as you have a good doctor. Antipsychotics play the role of leveling out dopamine imbalances, and since dopamine plays such a pivotal role in emotional health, and even physical health, keeping it balanced is incredibly important. Stick to the regimen your doc gave you, and continue dropping your caffeine use as well and you should be fine
 
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