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Alcoholism Discussion Thread Version 7.0




RDP

I can relate very much.

Meditation, nutrition, lifestyle tweaks, and fitness helped me stay clean for 5 years.

Guess what happened when I stopped meditating? RELAPSE. Meditation can and will change your brain in as little as 8 weeks :)



But I must never forget about my problem, meditation and fitness can provide the endorphins and brain chemistry equilibrium I crave, but I must also be conscious I am an addict and stay connected to my recovery such as posting here hehe, the 12 steps ain't my cup of tea.


Mine neither. That's a great post you've made. I tried doing some meditation a few weeks back and really felt my mind was much stronger in the process of decision making in the day or so after. I must give it another bash.
 
I am also an alcoholic.

Out of all the drugs I have abused, it is the one drug that I have legit cravings for. I suppose that it has to do with how easy it is to access, along with the feeling of instant gratification that it gives you.

Meditation is something I have used in the past to help deal with unwanted feelings and cravings, but after abusing benzos and alcohol for the last two years it is damn near impossible for me to just be without some sort of distraction. The apathy and boredom is overwhelming. So many things to do yet unable to do them. lying cheating stealing. Everyone suggests twelve step meetings, but I just can't get into it. Anxious uncomfortable. Human connection feels so much more natural with a drink in my hand.
 
Anxiety and discomfort are pretty standard effects of addiction. The groups would have been worth going to for me, except here it is mainly focused on depressants(benzos booze h).
 
A couple years ago I went to a special hernia facility in Canada called Shouldice, world reknowned granted I had to pay out of pocket as I am from the States.

I specifically went there not only because they are one of the world's leading hernia repair places but also because they do not anesthetize you to loss of consciousness, you stay awake granted under a heavy dose of sedative. I had concerns about being put under and no surgeon where I lived would operate without anesthetizing a patient 'to sleep'.

Can you be more specific as to what your concern is about anesthesia and how it relates to your alcohol use?

Whatever happens I wish you the best.

Alcohol has anti-cougalant properties like aspirin, depending on amount of alcohol used....this definitely has implications with any surgery performed. You wouldn't want your patient to bleed to death or possibly (not sure about this) suffer blood clots post surgery. This is at least partly why you hear a little alcohol is said to be good for the heart, but the key word here is "a liittle". may be other factors here involved.
 
That's shit news SLK. How much booze are you on per day?

Are there many ex-users of hard drugs in here that have managed to retire from abusing the hard drugs and go back to drinking (socially)?

I never could and I personally know nobody that has. Alcohol is a drug.....

Very very common for drug users to try to "clean up" by "just drinking". Its "socially acceptable" after all.
 
Thanks for the kind words all who responded.

That's shit news SLK. How much booze are you on per day?

Probably average about between 500mL and a fifth of hard liquor a day, sometimes more, never less than a "pint" (which, inscrutably, here in the U.S. means 375mL.) Drink the majority of it at night time, can't sleep without it, often take an eye opener and a bit of "maintenance" through the day (I'll carry around 4-5 "airplane bottles" [50mL] to stave of anxiety/tremors/general unpleasantness), never enough to even really catch a buzz, sometimes on days off I go full degenerate though and go way beyond that ...

Are there many ex-users of hard drugs in here that have managed to retire from abusing the hard drugs and go back to drinking (socially)?

My path to alcoholism came after recreating with almost every drug imaginable and particularly after I quit Suboxone after 2.5 years which was after ~5 years on/off heroin, I was depressed, anxious, unable to sleep, just to get a good night's rest it took 2mg Ativan, 100mg Vistaril, and a fifth of hard liquor, the liquor insinuated itself into my daily routine and now it's been nearly 2 years on the booze. Not quite taking as much now and much less benzos but still.

Oh yeah, I didn't mention, this is relevant for anesthesia/conscious sedation purposes, I'm on ~1.5mg (varies sometimes) Klonipin a day too and Sonata at night to sleep.

A couple years ago I went to a special hernia facility in Canada called Shouldice, world reknowned granted I had to pay out of pocket as I am from the States.

I specifically went there not only because they are one of the world's leading hernia repair places but also because they do not anesthetize you to loss of consciousness, you stay awake granted under a heavy dose of sedative. I had concerns about being put under and no surgeon where I lived would operate without anesthetizing a patient 'to sleep'.

Sedative is usually Versed (midazolam), I am not sure if this is available for my (periumbilical) hernia, and I believe that it's for open procedures only, but I'd probably rather opt for a laparoscopic procedure which will carry a shorter recovery time. Either one should probably be an ambulatory procedure.

Can you be more specific as to what your concern is about anesthesia and how it relates to your alcohol use?

Whatever happens I wish you the best.

Thanks for the thoughts. I'm worried about cross-tolerance with, e.g., the midazolam, and also as this poster mentions ...

Alcohol has anti-cougalant properties like aspirin, depending on amount of alcohol used....this definitely has implications with any surgery performed. You wouldn't want your patient to bleed to death or possibly (not sure about this) suffer blood clots post surgery. This is at least partly why you hear a little alcohol is said to be good for the heart, but the key word here is "a liittle". may be other factors here involved.

... as well as liver issues, mine is far from shot but enough to be a concern, plus in terms of general health I could be a lot better some of which is directly due to alcoholism and lifestyle factors ... I would be a patient with a few different alarm bells ringing for an anesthesiologist and it would be a mistake for me to be less than honest with the anesthesia/surgical team.

I also worry about pain management after although given that it's a relatively mild ambulatory procedure it won't really be a prolonged thing. Obviously anything with APAP is out of the question as are a lot of other nonopoiod analgesics (ibuprofen gives me terrible GI bleeds/issues) and I can't really imagine they'd be enthusiastic about prescribing Dilaudid/Oxy or whatever. I'm a tough son of a bitch though...

I never could and I personally know nobody that has. Alcohol is a drug.....

Very very common for drug users to try to "clean up" by "just drinking". Its "socially acceptable" after all.

Yep.
 
Mariposa's death, and how she died freaked me out, and it's extremely sad.

I remember her posting about how she had gotten sober and was going to AA meetings, and then how she was going to start to drink again in moderation.

The scary part is that what happened to her could happen to any of us here in this thread.

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/771291-RIP-Mariposa
 
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Mariposa's death, and how she died freaked me out, and it's extremely sad.

I remember her posting about how she had gotten sober and was going to AA meetings, and then how she was going to start to drink again in moderation.

The scary part is that what happened to her could happen to any of us here in this thread.

Wait what!!!! I didn't hear about this..... I was actually thinking about her recently. She was trying to do the whole moderation thing when I was... in fact, I feel like my "tapering alcohol with alcohol" thread was one of her outlets.
 
Alcohol has anti-cougalant properties like aspirin, depending on amount of alcohol used....this definitely has implications with any surgery performed. You wouldn't want your patient to bleed to death or possibly (not sure about this) suffer blood clots post surgery. This is at least partly why you hear a little alcohol is said to be good for the heart, but the key word here is "a liittle". may be other factors here involved.

Confused with this, "good for the heart"...question is ..how little is little and how good is good? :) when do we say its okay and when do we say we're drunk aside of course from testing ourselves with breathalyser or can't say a word already because of drunkenness
 
Confused with this, "good for the heart"...question is ..how little is little and how good is good? :) when do we say its okay and when do we say we're drunk aside of course from testing ourselves with breathalyser or can't say a word already because of drunkenness

roughly 8 oz of 10-12% wine

or equivalent

the thing is, all alcoholic beverages have calories. It's not a healthy choice for most people.

If you're concerned for your heart, you need to do cardiovascular exercise. Nothing will improve your heart and circulation system as much as cardiovascular exercise will.
 
roughly 8 oz of 10-12% wine

or equivalent

the thing is, all alcoholic beverages have calories. It's not a healthy choice for most people.

If you're concerned for your heart, you need to do cardiovascular exercise. Nothing will improve your heart and circulation system as much as cardiovascular exercise will.

Depends to some extent. If your primary care doctor, or family physician is aware of addiction specialization, or took a course, or specialized in it, they'll tell you something far-fetched liked : The Asian population, along with everyone else is not as adept at handling alcohol in any form as well as Caucasoid are (those of primarily European descent). Truth seems to be, at least, certain types of human heritages have a distinct lust for, resilience towards, flavor of, and distinguish between alcohol.

One such theory without, hopefully, inciting a further discussion is that Europeans developed characteristic more strongly adapted to that of consuming alcohol, than those who did not, or could not produce enough on a similar scale.
 
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Yes, I believe so.

I think it's one thing if you want to have one night a month, or one night a year (most people like drinking on January 1st)...but when you're doing it every day, you really need to take a step back and re-evaluate what's going on in your life.

Why do you feel the need to drink every day? Are you bored, depressed, etc? <3

Sorry I only just read this properly. I don't know man probably just boredom and a touch of depression maybe. Thinking of better days gone by too much but I've quit stims a month ago, tobacco 2 days ago and alcohol yesterday. It's a funny one, I still love a beer. But when I'm trying to get my life back together after being diagnosed bipolar it's best that I focus on exercise, and staying sober (as possible).

My drinking wasn't even half what it used to be. It's just since my addiction to other substances I find myself ever critical of my use in general. And I think the questioning your own behaviour, with a touch of guilt, makes the negative effects worse. Like waking up feeling bloated with a dry mouth.
As phactor said it's too easy to "clean up" from drugs, while still drinking and thinking all is ok, because your not associating with drug dealers or hanging around in drug houses. It's the socially acceptable factor.
 
I found this article on another site and it does hit on some issues people here bring up.

Addiction, Drunk Driving, and Suicide: The Struggles of Audrey Conn, Founder of ‘Moderation Management’

Audrey Conn founded Moderation Management as an alternative to A.A. In December, almost 15 years after killing a father and daughter while drunk driving, Conn killed herself.
A few days before Christmas, in a Portland suburb, Audrey Conn committed suicide in her mother’s house. Her death, like her life, was immediately seen as something larger in a vituperative debate over whether all problem drinkers need to entirely abstain. Conn, 56, was a founder of Moderation Management, a behavioral program for non-dependent drinkers who seek to change their habits.

She came into national headlines in 2000 after a tragic accident. In January of that year, Conn, who then used her once-married name, Kishline, announced to MM members that moderation wasn’t working for her, and that she was leaving the group to attend Alcoholics Anonymous and other abstinence-based programs.

Two months later, with a blood alcohol level three times the legal limit, Conn drove the wrong way down a highway in Washington State. She plowed into an oncoming car, killing Danny Davis and his 12-year-old daughter, LaShell.

The story ignited a huge controversy. Omitting the fact that Conn/Kishline had been attending AA at the time of her accident, prominent abstinence-only proponents used the tragedy to attack moderation. The National Council on Alcoholism and Drug Dependence (NCADD), which is widely considered A.A.’s mouthpiece (A.A. does not comment publicly on what it calls “outside issues”), released a statement that said the incident “provides a harsh lesson for all of society, especially those individuals who collude with the media to continually question abstinence-based treatment for problems related to alcohol and other drugs.” Journalists seized on the news, and condemnatory articles and television segments followed.

What those stories failed to capture was the complexity of those who struggle with “alcohol use disorder,” the clinical term the most recent edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, the 2013 DSM-V, uses for risky drinking. It denotes a spectrum, from mild to moderate to severe, and replaces the DSM-III’s term “alcohol abuse” and “alcohol dependence.” (Those terms, published in 1980, replaced the much older “alcoholism.”)

Like many women who drink riskily, Conn also struggled with depression, said Dr. Marc Kern, a psychologist at Addiction Alternatives, a substance and alcohol use treatment center in Los Angeles. He was a friend and colleague, and is board chairman of Moderation Management.

Conn, Kern said, didn’t identify with the A.A.’s embrace of the disease theory of alcoholism, which can loosely be described as this: drinkers who can’t control their consumption have a brain disease that, if not halted by abstinence, will continue to worsen.

“Audrey had the courage to say, ‘One size doesn’t fit all,’” Kern said. Conn sought to address the disparity between programs for severely alcohol-dependent people and those in the milder stages of problem drinking. The National Institutes for Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism estimate that of the 18 million Americans with AUD, about 15 percent are in the severely dependent range. (For the severely dependent, abstinence is typically considered the best route to recovery.)

In the early 1990s, when Conn was trying to change her own drinking habits, there was little help available outside abstinence-only programs designed for the severely dependent. Like other unhealthy behaviors, risky drinking is more easily addressed when the problem is mild.

Conn, her friends say, had tried A.A.’s 12-step program, which was founded in 1935 when knowledge of neurology was in its infancy. Its tenets include declaring one’s powerlessness over alcohol, accepting the aid of a higher power in maintaining abstinence, and relinquishing one’s ego. Conn found herself at odds with A.A., and contacted prominent researchers who had published numerous peer-reviewed studies that proved the ability of many problem drinkers to cut back. (In the intervening years, such studies have continued to mount.) With their help, Conn developed the program by setting moderate drinking guidelines and limits, drink monitoring exercises, goal-setting techniques, and strategies for identifying triggers.

During her three-year prison stay, LaShell’s mother and Danny’s ex-wife, Sheryl Maloy-Davis, a devout Christian, approached Conn with forgiveness, and in 2007, the two women published a book about their experiences called “Face to Face.” Maloy-Davis, 50, said this week from her home in central Washington that she made a decision for her two surviving sons not to let bitterness consume her. “I told Audrey I forgave her, but she always had such a hard time accepting that,” Maloy-Davis said.

After prison, Conn struggled with guilt, shame, and, as a convicted felon, the inability to find employment, Kern says. She also continued to battle alcohol. “She really wanted to be able to not drink but it had a hold of her,” Maloy-Davis said.

Two months later, with a blood alcohol level three times the legal limit, Conn drove the wrong way down a highway in Washington State.
Conn attended A.A. daily for the past several years, Maloy-Davis said, but fell off the wagon repeatedly. That, in turn, compounded her guilt. “She knew the damage she’d done with her drinking and knew what her choices had done to others but couldn’t fix it like she would liked to have,” Maloy-Davis said.

Conn’s social media posts reveal sharp shifts in mood. Women with alcohol use disorder are twice as likely as men to be diagnosed with anxiety and depressive disorders. They’re also more likely to self-medicate unpleasant feelings with alcohol. In A.A., such conditions are considered “outside issues.”

“A.A. tells you, ‘Don’t drink, don’t think, come to meetings, and you’ll be fine,’” said Dr. Andrew Tatarsky, a Manhattan psychologist who is also an MM board member. “The problem is the drinking, the cure is abstinence, and the program is the way.” While many people find benefits from the mutual support and camaraderie A.A. offers, he said, it doesn’t address the complex emotional issues that drive so many people to excess drinking in the first place.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...ey-conn-founder-of-moderation-management.html
 
Trying to give it up again... Waking up sweating and feeling like you're going to have a heart attack after a 5 day bender isn't really fun. Had to get some cheap beer yesterday just to stop me from looking like a Parkinson's patient. Couldn't even put my contacts in until I drank 2 beers my hands were shaking so bad. I got a doctors appointment for the middle of the month and I'm honestly a bit terrified. This last fuck up was probably the closest I've come to full blown DTs. Good thing is I'm fully ready to give it my all to stop this madness, I just hope I haven't done any irreversible damage aside from my fatty liver.
 
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Trying to give it up again... Waking up sweating and feeling like you're going to have a heart attack after a 5 day bender isn't really fun. Had to get some cheap beer yesterday just to stop me from looking like a Parkinson's patient. Couldn't even put my contacts in until I drank 2 beers my hands were shaking so bad. I got a doctors appointment for the middle of the month and I'm honestly a bit terrified. This last fuck up was probably the closest I've come to full blown DTs. Good thing is I'm fully ready to give it my all to stop this madness, I just hope I haven't done any irreversible damage aside from my fatty liver.

Damn man. That sounds like full blown withdrawal to me. Probably need to get the doc to set you up a benzo taper.
 
Yeah I'm honestly still shaken up pretty bad and having trouble thinking clearly. I think that much will pass in a few days once I totally dry out, but yeah... I've had the shakes before but nothing like that. Maybe that's what it took for me to finally come to my senses? As much as I don't always think life is all that great in general I don't want to drink myself to death, and I'm sick of the stress I'm causing my friends and family and myself too. Other than that, the bad thing is I'm already prescribed 2mgs of Xanax daily so I can't really do a benzo taper. My only plan really is to drink a pint of beer and maybe a tallboy throughout the day later and hope that the next day the last of my withdrawals will be at least manageable.
 
Yeah I'm honestly still shaken up pretty bad and having trouble thinking clearly. I think that much will pass in a few days once I totally dry out, but yeah... I've had the shakes before but nothing like that. Maybe that's what it took for me to finally come to my senses? As much as I don't always think life is all that great in general I don't want to drink myself to death, and I'm sick of the stress I'm causing my friends and family and myself too. Other than that, the bad thing is I'm already prescribed 2mgs of Xanax daily so I can't really do a benzo taper. My only plan really is to drink a pint of beer and maybe a tallboy throughout the day later and hope that the next day the last of my withdrawals will be at least manageable.
Shit man. I wish you the best of luck. I don't know enough about the subject to give you anymore educated advice and the problem with seeking out an addiction specialist is it might cause you to lose the Xanax script. Nasty situation all the way around.
 
Thanks... Yesterday was my last day of my mini 2 day taper and honestly I wasn't really that bad off. Was a little shaky and out of it but nothing major and managed to start getting an appetite again. Had my last beers last night which I had more as a back up than anything else. Today will be my first day sober AGAIN in at least a week. I'm not worried about any more withdrawal type symptoms or going to buy more booze since I gave a family member my money and I'm pretty much broke anyways... Just worried about being depressed and apathetic for the rest of the month. I guess I just need to find some better ways to deal with it.
 
Is it unusual to be fine with drugs, but unstable with alcohol.i think my real problem is i drink to fast. But even though i like drugs i dont like excess
 
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