Bali Nine Australians Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran to be executed together in Bal

[poledriver]

Yeah fair enough, I guess if they continue to kill even in jail and there is no chance they've been innocent and show no signs of rehabilitation then do that if it really is the way you prefer.

We don't do that here in Aus, there are certain jails and environments for mass killers in super max jails and stuff like that. There hasn't been capitol punishment here for along time I believe.

 

[poledriver]

Federal police deny they have Bali nine blood on their hands

The federal police would not change anything about the way they handled the Bali nine investigation and continue to use the same guidelines for tipping off overseas police about Australian citizens.

AFP Commissioner Andrew Colvin said on Thursday that repeated government reviews, court cases and senate inquiries had cleared the AFP of any wrongdoing in sealing the fate of the Australian drug smugglers.

"Do we have blood on our hands? No," Mr Colvin said at a lecture to the Lowy Institute in Sydney.

The government has refused to comment on the AFP's conduct, saying it was inappropriate to do so while negotiations continue to spare the lives of ringleaders Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran.

"At the moment the Australian government's sole focus is on pursuing and exhausting every avenue for clemency," a spokeswoman for Justice Minister Michael Keenan said.

With just days to go until Chan and Sukumaran are executed, Mr Colvin once again said the AFP followed all the proper rules and obligations by tipping off Indonesian authorities in April 2005 about a potential heroin smuggling operation.

The information came from drug mule Scott Rush's father Lee, who was worried his son had been recruited as a drug runner and was about to depart for Bali.

He called a friend, Brisbane lawyer Robert Myers, who called a man he knew in the AFP who supposedly said Rush would be stopped before leaving for Bali.

Instead, the AFP provided information to its Indonesian counterparts, who arrested the men in Bali days later.

Mr Myers again reiterated on Thursday that the AFP "have blood on their hands".

He believed the tip-off was a deliberate move by the AFP to curry favour with Indonesian authorities.

On Thursday, Mr Colvin responded.

"Put simply, were we part of a conspiracy for greater co-operation that I've seen written about? No," he said.

He said much of the information circulating, including Mr Myers' claim, "doesn't accurately reflect our role and the work we did in 2005".

"There is nothing I could say today ... that's not been put on the records in courts in Australia; in the Federal Court when we were challenged about our role."

He said he had written a letter to his Indonesian counterpart recently, begging the Indonesians to show mercy to Chan and Sukumaran.

"For many months the AFP has been doing what it can to support the whole-of-government diplomatic efforts and today I would like to again add our voice to the Australian government's plea for mercy."

Federal Court judge Paul Finn found in 2006 that the AFP only had the power to refuse assistance in overseas death penalty cases if charges had already been laid.

He ruled that the AFP's conduct "fell squarely within the lawful functions of the AFP. Scott Rush and his colleagues were the authors of their own harm."

Justice Finn recommended the AFP review its death penalty guidelines and the subsequent guidelines, released under Freedom of Information last month, show that the protocols remain the same.

If an Australian has been arrested, detained, charged or convicted overseas, a federal minister must give the AFP consent to share information.

Mr Myers said last month that he only ever contacted the AFP because he thought they could help.

"I should have just said to Lee [Rush], 'Mate get over there as fast as you can and get the young kid back here'," he told Triple M radio.

"They've got, as I've said in the past, blood on their hands because they they could've intercepted eight Australians here, they didn't know of Sukumaran.

"They had sufficient evidence to charge them with conspiracy to import narcotics into Australia."

http://www.smh.com.au/national/fede...ine-blood-on-their-hands-20150305-13weqx.html

 

[poledriver]

Bali Nine executions: Australia to complain over selfie with Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran

AUSTRALIA will lodge an official complaint with Indonesia’s ambassador about the series of photos taken on board the plane transferring condemned drug smugglers Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran to their place of execution.
The Department of Foreign Affairs will inform ambassador Nadjib Kesoema of Australia’s displeasure at the images after they emerged yesterday.
One picture shows a smiling Denpasar police chief commissioner Djoko Hari Utomo with his hand on the back of a seated Chan. The other shows the commissioner placing his hand on the shoulder of Sukumaran, who’s looking up at him.

Australia’s complaint will be conveyed to the ambassador through a telephone call from a senior foreign affairs official, likely to be department secretary Peter Varghese.
Although summoned to Canberra, Indonesia’s ambassador is understood to be in Perth and can’t attend the Department of Foreign Affairs in Canberra in person.

Cont -

http://www.news.com.au/world/bali-n...myuran-sukumaran/story-fndir2ev-1227250397270

 

[poledriver]

Bali Nine executions may be delayed as prisoner swap denied

The executions of Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan could be further delayed, but Indonesia's president has said "no way" to a prisoner swap offer.

The Australians, now positioned on the island of Nusakambangan for execution, can't be executed this week as Indonesia's Attorney-General HM Prasetyo has not signalled their 72-hours notice period has begun.

He also won't confirm they will be executed next week, telling reporters he wanted to be prepared for the smallest problem before the Bali Nine pair and up to eight others go to the firing squad for their drug offences.

"About notification, it's a minimum three days before the execution," he said on Thursday.

"It could be 10 days."

His comments come after President Joko Widodo reportedly told an al-Jazeera reporter off camera that the executions would not be this week.


Read more at http://www.9news.com.au/world/2015/...executions-may-be-delayed#0VYr7lityIKqFMeM.99

 

[alasdairm]

what indonesia chooses to do in terms of advocating for their citizens facing death row elsewhere is besides the point.

i disagree. i think it is central to the point.

they obviously have a problem with the death penalty, actively advocating for mercy from foreign governments while showing none themselves. that's simple hypocrisy.

alasdair

 

[Birc0014]

Dont care.

They knew the risks, they took them, now they pay the price. They could have smuggled H into any number of other countries but instead chose one that is clear about the punishment for doing so. The moral argument doesn't hold water here, nor does the normative one, these are the laws of a sovreign state as decided by its peoples. Neither your or I have any right in determining their societial standards and practices and reducing the argument to name calling "psychopath, moron, cold hearted bastard", etc doesnt change that fact or elevate your arguments.

Yes, yes, yes, killing is wrong, murder is bad, blah, blah, blah, but it happens everyday on far more important issues without the slightest of thoughts by such well informed peoples such as yoursleves, so before you go taking the moral highground and passing out judgements on me know this. I have dedicated a large part of my life to social justice issues, poverty alleviation, and health, sex, and education, work so I have no qualms about the deaths of two convicted international drug smugglers that became good people in prison. Especially when compared to the hundreds of thousands of others who were good people before they were locked up in prison, and/or tortured, murdered, raped, and assaulted, without a trial or the international attention/exposure of these two ass clowns.

 

[Birc0014]

i disagree. i think it is central to the point.

they obviously have a problem with the death penalty, actively advocating for mercy from foreign governments while showing none themselves. that's simple hypocrisy.

alasdair

politics is hypocrisy, they would be failing in their duties as sleazy politicians if they didnt

 

[Birc0014]

wrong.

there are more sheep in NZ than persons. Maybe Australia too???? Anyway.

Australians call NZers sheep-shagers.
NZers WOULD NOT call out cuzzin Australians' as sheep-shagers. at all. never

Both countries have more sheep than people, both cultures enjoy a wooly cuddle, I have met people from both countries that use the term to describe people from the other, so no sir you are wrong

 

[SixBuckets]

Do you have respect for the laws and customs of another culture when you visit abroad?

I'm not much of a traveller, but I certainly don't have respect for the laws and customs of countries that execute people for, say, having sex with a person of the same sex or gender. Or carrying drugs. Or even those countries that claim to only execute people for severe crimes, but in reality it turns out to all be people of colour with low IQs? Yeah, screw those countries.

 

[kytnism]

Dont care.

They knew the risks, they took them, now they pay the price. They could have smuggled H into any number of other countries but instead chose one that is clear about the punishment for doing so.

fyi birc they were not smuggling drugs INTO indonesia. they were travelling to indonesia and returning to australia with the drugs. but yes, you are right about the punishment in doing so. here in australia, they would have gotten a maximum of 15 years imprisonment, with a possibly reduced sentence on the basis of assessment for rehabilitation in returning to society.

Both countries have more sheep than people, both cultures enjoy a wooly cuddle, I have met people from both countries that use the term to describe people from the other, so no sir you are wrong

two australian citizens and one new zealand native have corrected you on this matter. im terribly sorry but sir, you are infact wrong. australians are never referred to as sheep fuckers, you are confusing australia with new zealand in this case.

...kytnism...

 

[kytnism]

As someone whose own father was shot and almost killed by a couple of heroin junkies during an armed robbery attempt at the Sydney pub they managed in the late ’70s, it would be very easy for me to condemn the likes of Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan. I don’t.

My parents woke up in their own beds in the small hours of the night to find two stocking-masked figures screaming at them to open the safe. One of the men was already beating Dad in the face with a pistol. Despite this, being a champion boxer in his youth and celebrated rugby player, Dad quickly overcame the man, and that’s when his buddy by the door let go with both barrels of a sawn-off shotgun. The first round hit his friend in the arm, all but taking it clean off. The second struck my father’s leg. The men staggered off down the hall, howling. Dad tried to get up and give pursuit, and that’s when his leg folded beneath him.

It was my sister who shook me awake that morning. “Wake up, Nicky. Dad’s been shot by robbers!” I didn’t believe her, so I ran downstairs and along the hallway to my parent’s bedroom. Past paramedics, photographers and police. Not one challenged me. I vividly remember walking into the room and not actually recognising it. It was as though someone had sprayed every surface – the walls, the windows, the ceiling, the floor, even the bed itself – this terrible bright, bright red. Eventually a detective spotted me staring with my mouth open, and cursing, he grabbed a young constable to usher me back down the hall.

Not once did I think for a single second that my Dad could actually die. If anything, the fact he’d been shot was somehow exciting. Impressive. Further proof of his unquestionable toughness. That’s how sheltered my existence had been. The mortality of my parents wasn’t something I had ever even considered. Their death was inconceivable to me.

Truth was, Dad very nearly did die. First from blood loss and shock in the ambulance. Then again on the operating table. And a third time from a golden staph infection – in fact, it was that strain of antibiotic-resistant super-bacteria that came closest to killing him. In the end, Dad pulled through. He became a favourite of the hospital nurses for his wit and good cheer. But while he regained full health, he was maimed and unable to bend his leg again. Perhaps saddest of all was that he would never play rugby after that.

As for the injured smackie, he was dumped at the lights outside the hospital a few hours later, while the other gunman was caught trying to leave for Thailand a couple of weeks after that. Both were already on parole for doing the same thing. Both were sentenced to 14 years and were out in less than four. Who knows whatever happened to them after that. Sometimes I fantasise of tracking them down and seeing if fate ever served them proper due, but I never have.

Heroin did that. The traffickers and dealers who sold it were just as responsible for what happened to my father as these desperate criminals needing money to score their next hit. There is no question this drug destroys multiple lives.

Nonetheless, I’m dismayed by some of the ignorant comments on Facebook and kneejerk bogan sentiment about what’s about to happen to Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan. Sure, it’s very easy to sit back at a remove and pass judgment on these two men as utterly deserving of their fate. Yet psychology will tell you can gain a remarkable insight into a person's personal ethics and degree of emotional intelligence by the level of empathy they display. For those callous enough to suggest that Myuran and Andrew (yes, they have names – they are human beings) have it coming, then I challenge you to listen to their friend Ben Quilty, the man who has campaigned tirelessly to save them, speak about the individuals they now are. To hear how desperate he is to stop his mate Myuran being riddled with bullets. To register the real tears in his voice.

And if that doesn't move you, imagine how it must be for their poor mothers. Or brothers. Or little sisters. Try and put yourself in their families' place – what if it were your dickhead brother who totally screwed up? Would you be so cavalier with another human life then?

Don’t simply trot out the same ol’ abhorrent justifications: "They were stupid. They knew the risks. They rolled the dice, fuck 'em..." Try to apply more logic. Could it be the stupid young men they once were thought they had a free pass through customs, like so many other drug traffickers so regularly do? Bribery and blind eyes are rife on those notoriously porous borders. Perhaps they were told they'd be waved right through like they were before. It’s certainly possible, isn’t it?

And lastly, if all that fails, if you still think, "Nah, let them have it - it sets an example to other traffickers", aside from all evidence pointing to the contrary about that flawed assumption of the drug trade, maybe ask yourself one more question: “Are YOU the same person you were ten years ago? Or are there any really stupid things you did that you’d NEVER EVER do again?” Because there are for me.

These two men, after over a decade in a third-world prison suffering skin disease, poor health, malnutrition and no doubt being exposed to countless acts of violence, have done their time, paid their penance and then some. They’ve learnt whatever lesson there is to about the destruction of drugs. And thanks to their own studies, efforts to better themselves and the incredible kindness of men like Ben Quilty, they are not only completely rehabilitated but are probably more educated than you or I. From all reports, they are good human beings and much loved. So imagine the good they could do now. The difference they could make. They don’t deserve death. They deserve compassion. Empathy. Help. Right up to the last-ditch end. Nothing less.

Anyone who says different is either a moron or a cold-hearted bastard.

And if Myuran and Andrew do end up blindfolded and gunned down in cold blood for some stupid reckless act they did a lifetime ago, I truly hope that those fine upstanding members of our Australian Federal Police who knowingly, wittingly, deliberately, sent them to their deaths are presented with framed photographs of the mothers weeping over their sons’ broken, bullet-smashed bodies. Will justice be served then, I wonder? Blood is on the AFP’s hands, no question. I hope the decision to make that phone call haunts those responsible.

As for my dad, well, I honestly don’t know what he would say. I know he is not a bitter, angry nor vengeful man. He never let what happened to him destroy him. I also know I would not be the person I am today without the compassion and love he continued to instill in me. I think he, like any of us - especially if we actually knew Myuran and Andrew personally - would not want them to be lined up like cattle and murdered.

So before you go and say they deserve such a horrible senseless death because “they were stupid” and because “drugs are bad, m’kay” and because it “sends a message”… just stop. Pause. Think. And try another perspective on for size.

My heart is with Myuran and Andrew. I really hope there is a last-minute reprieve and they make it.

Nick Snelling

i loved this post and agree with every sentiment that has been expressed here.

i especially resonated with the statement "Nonetheless, I’m dismayed by some of the ignorant comments on Facebook and kneejerk bogan sentiment about what’s about to happen to Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan. Sure, it’s very easy to sit back at a remove and pass judgment on these two men as utterly deserving of their fate. Yet psychology will tell you can gain a remarkable insight into a person's personal ethics and degree of emotional intelligence by the level of empathy they display. "

...kytnism...

 

[Birc0014]

fyi birc they were not smuggling drugs INTO indonesia. they were travelling to indonesia and returning to australia with the drugs. but yes, you are right about the punishment in doing so. here in australia, they would have gotten a maximum of 15 years imprisonment, with a possibly reduced sentence on the basis of assessment for rehabilitation in returning to society.

two australian citizens and one new zealand native have corrected you on this matter. im terribly sorry but sir, you are infact wrong. australians are never referred to as sheep fuckers, you are confusing australia with new zealand in this case.

...kytnism...

1st Smuggled IN smuggled OUT, irrelevant
2nd I spent two months living with an Australian and a Kiwi in Australia whom both of which referred to one another (and other Aussies/Kiwis) as sheepfuckers several times a day. So I am in fact (two seperate words) right and you are in fact (still seperate) someone who doesnt get an opinion as you have already proven yourself a liar, and dishounourable.

 

[poledriver]

I've always heard it said about NZ'ers, not Aussies.

Anyway -

Looming execution of Bali Nine members highlights plight of other Australians on death row

AS THE world watches the final days of Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran unfold, it appears nothing can be done to save the pair from facing the firing squad on Nusa Kambangan Island.

While the tragic case is dominating headlines, little is known about the fate of up to 12 other Australians who could be facing the death penalty around the world, the majority of whom are in South-East Asia on drug trafficking charges, according to a Fairfax report.

In addition to Mr Chan and Mr Sukumaran, Pham Trung Dung has been sentenced to death in Vietnam for trying to smuggle two suitcases of heroin on a flight to Sydney after being paid $40,000 to do the job.

New Zealand-born Australian resident Peter Gardiner could also face the firing squad in China after being caught with 30 kilograms of methamphetamine, worth up to $80 million, with Australian woman Kalynda Davis earlier this year.

The pair were busted after meeting on Tinder and travelling to China on a whim. While Mr Gardiner awaits his fate, Ms Davis has returned to Australia after top secret negotiations led by Foreign Minister Julie Bishop saw her secretly flown back to Sydney.

Australian grandmother Maria Elvira Pinto Exposto, 52, is also facing a death sentence in Malaysia after being caught with 1.5 kilograms of methamphetamine at Kuala Lumpur airport.

She claims she was handed the bag by a friend of her boyfriend at the last minute, amid fears she was caught up in an online dating scam. Her case is expected to be heard early next year.

Little is known about the other Australians potentially facing execution due to the delicate nature of negotiations and fears any publicity could potentially affect the outcome of the legal process.

If Mr Chan and Mr Sukumaran’s execution does take place, it will come on top of four other Australians executed for drug offences in the past decade, including Melbourne man Van Tuong Nguyen, 25, who was hanged in Singapore in 2005, after being caught with heroin strapped to his body. Michael McAuliffe, 38, was hanged in Malaysia for heroin trafficking in 1993, while Kevin Barlow, 28, and Brian Chambers, 29, were both also killed in the country over trafficking the drug.

http://www.news.com.au/national/loo...ans-on-death-row/story-fncynjr2-1227250535480

 

[poledriver]

Jesinta Campbell cops a string of hate notes after her Bali Nine death support on Today Show

JESINTA Campbell has copped online backlash after suggesting she supports the Indonesian Bali Nine execution on the Today Show yesterday.
The model, who is dating AFL footy star Lance “Buddy” Franklin, said “that’s the law” and was hit with online hate on her Instagram account with people opposing her views.

“That’s the law” doesn’t make it right or ok!!!” one commenter wrote on a random picture of Franklin with their dog on a beach.
Another follower had a dig at Campbell’s attire on the show after she wore a loose silk tie-up dress.

The comment has been since deleted but Campbell lashed out at the rude follower with this rant.
“If you don’t like what I wear or my outfits please feel free to unfollow me, it is your choice remember,” Campbell hit back.
“I will not be offended one single bit, there are plenty of people on here who are so lovely and I would prefer to have them follow me instead of bitter people like yourself.”
Campbell said on the Today panel yesterday that she was saddened by the Bali Nine’s fate but that was “the consequences.”

“It’s so sad, I mean just watching all this footage played out on the new yesterday, I was working from home yesterday, it just, it breaks your heart because you can’t help but feel about their families and they are two human beings at the end of the day,” she said on air.
“But like a lot of Australians believe as well unfortunately, Indonesia has these rules and if you break them these are the consequences.
“It’s so sad.
“I do not agree in the death penalty but that’s their law.”

Aussie actor Guy Pearce has also weighed in on the debate pleading for compassion from Indonesian president Joko Widodo.
“President Widodo, you look like a compassionate man,” he wrote.
“Please don’t let pride stand in the way of your mercy brother.”
Bali Nine Australian ringleaders Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran were transferred to execution island this week but it is still unknown when they will meet their fate.
In a twist in the saga, Australia will lodge an official complaint with Indonesia’s ambassador about a series of photos taken on board the plane including one of an officer smiling next to Chan.

http://www.news.com.au/entertainmen...rt-on-today-show/story-fnpilxz1-1227250636307

 

[poledriver]

Bali Nine duo Andrew Chan, Myuran Sukumaran: executions may be delayed

FORMER foreign minister Bob Carr believes Australia should form a pact with other countries to tackle drug trafficking into Indonesia in exchange for the Bali Nine ringleaders on death row.
The government should do some “quick work” with countries like Brazil and France, who also have citizens on Indonesian death row, and present a package to help the nation’s drug problems, Mr Carr says.

The anti-drug policing pact would require commitment and funding and focus on stopping drugs getting into Indonesia’s region. “Our efforts should be directed at giving them reasons sufficient to justify to their people that they can grant clemency in this case,” Mr Carr told ABC radio on Friday.

The government has been pleading with Indonesian officials to spare the pair’s lives, with Foreign Minister Julie Bishop floating a prisoner-swap deal.
Mr Carr said granting clemency for the duo would add to Indonesia’s case for clemency of their own citizens on death row in other countries.

Cont -

http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/b...s-may-be-delayed/story-fnh81fz8-1227250197734

 

[alasdairm]

Dont care.

evidently.

They could have smuggled H into any number of other countries but instead chose one that is clear about the punishment for doing so.

they did not smuggle drugs into indonesia...

...before you go taking the moral highground...

in what sense is your position not a moral highground? i'm just stating an opinion. same as you.

I have dedicated a large part of my life to social justice issues, poverty alleviation, and health, sex, and education, work...

blah. blah. blah.

when they throw you in jail for breaking the law, i'll remember to think "no sympathy. he knew what he was doing.". i'm sure it will help you sleep at night.

alasdair

 

[alasdairm]

1st Smuggled IN smuggled OUT, irrelevant

again, you display your ignorance. as you've been told, two or three times now, they did not smuggle drugs into indonesia

alasdair

 

[kytnism]

1st Smuggled IN smuggled OUT, irrelevant
2nd I spent two months living with an Australian and a Kiwi in Australia whom both of which referred to one another (and other Aussies/Kiwis) as sheepfuckers several times a day. So I am in fact (two seperate words) right and you are in fact (still seperate) someone who doesnt get an opinion as you have already proven yourself a liar, and dishounourable.

my apologies birc, i refuse to further argue this matter with you as you refuse to acknowledge fact and resort to ad homs in debate.

and pole; the past 48 hours i have been thinking of julie bishop, ALOT. her position right now must be incredibly difficult and i concern that once every option or plea bargain has been exercised and it becomes officially inevitable that both convicts are to face the death penalty; the effect it will have on her personally and emotionally in her professional position i can only assume to be quite difficult and disturbing.

...kytnism...

 

[Birc0014]

evidently.
they did not smuggle drugs into indonesia...
in what sense is your position not a moral highground? i'm just stating an opinion. same as you.
blah. blah. blah.

when they throw you in jail for breaking the law, i'll remember to think "no sympathy. he knew what he was doing.". i'm sure it will help you sleep at night.

alasdair

Dear sweet Atlasdares, I wrote that response to the one above yours, I guess you posted while I was still writing. I still stand behind everything I said except the smuggling IN vs smuggling OUT which I already stated was irrelevant

Also I sleep fine in jail, always have.

 

[Birc0014]

again, you display your ignorance. as you've been told, two or three times now, they did not smuggle drugs into indonesia

alasdair

Was just told once, you quoted my response. Which was smuggling in or out is irrelevant its still smuggling, still illegal, still punishable by death.