Site Feedback Why is Bluelight ashamed of the Lounge yet not ashamed of The Shrine?

[One Thousand Words]

All it takes to be a moderator on here is 1,000 posts and an understanding of the rules of the forum. You don't take a mental health test, you don't get screened for drugs. And as I said before, some of my favorite moderators have been/are addicts. Their struggle is neither "stupid" nor "reckless". If you have not yourself struggled with addiction or the addiction of someone that you love and know very well (lucky you), it is easy to think, "they should have known better".

Sometimes you need to read between the lines herbivore. The biggest issue I have with a majority of the current staff is their attitude of superiority due to having a little title under their avatar. In many cases they have done nothing to earn their title but being a presence, yet some how feel that they are born into privilege and have the right to look down upon regular members here who have no desire to sully their experience here on Bluelight with politics. I have to laugh at the calls for my crew title to be removed, like I need a larger inbox to justify why my voice should be heard when we are attacked. I was even briefly banned for 12 months a couple of days ago for nothing more than standing up for my beliefs.

The actions of a few of you in the last couple of days was just the tip of a extremely sharp point that many of us in the Lounge have had to endure over the past few years. It has been an interesting study in how absolute power corrupts absolutely. We Lounge rats often joke that the liberal communists run bluelight, but any one who has read George Orwell's Animal Farm would see many parallels in the actions of our current admin team in the past week. Bluelight is not a democracy, We know what's best for you, We felt is was in your best interests , Dawson cry.jpg

We are all adults, and many of us are actually really successful at it. As much as we are looked down by the rest of Bluelight, The Lounge is actually filled with some of the best role models here on Bluelight. A large percentage of us not only have our drug use under control, but we also successfully run businesses and have happy family lives. Just because we like to laugh and fuck around, don't be fooled that we are the basement dwelling losers that some people like to portray us to be. I have been a member of Bluelight since 2001 and it is no accident I prefer to base my self in The Lounge. For the most part they are hard working "normal" people, who just so happen like to get high from time to time. A few members do need a short leash from time to time, but don't make the mistake of judging as all in such a broad stroke. When you look down upon us in from your lofty thrones in the sky, we simply smile and accept your name calling and contempt. We thrive on being thought of as misfits, but reality is many of us have our shit together and don't need our hands held to survive.

Many of you, while doing a commendable job helping the depressed and down trodden with good intended advice, have no professional training in counselling. If Bluelight wants to be run like a professional organisation, you need to accept that this comes with accountability. If this was a government funded organisation with so many deaths of it's staff there would be an enquiry. Bluelight's shift to a more credible Harm Reduction resource is fantastic, particularly has this as bought with it more funding and a stable server. However you can't have it both ways. With the lofty standing also comes credibility and scrutiny. For many of you The Shrine is a personal tribute to loved ones lost. I also have too many friends names there that I regret not being able to do more. But it is also a measure of how much more work that needs to be done. As a businessman I am used to tracking my successes and failures and unfortunately if I had a resource such as the Shrine at my disposal, my shareholders would be asking for my head.

This conversation may have started in response to the attack on the Lounge, but don't be fooled in thinking my thoughts are a knee jerk reaction. I have made my feelings known to many staff members over the years in areas I believe Bluelight is failing. There are other ideas I will discuss in time, for now I feel that I have you attention and would appreciate a little more respect from you all towards me and the majority of The Lounge.

 

[phr]

The biggest issue I have with a majority of the current staff is their attitude of superiority

lol, that's rich

What proof do you have that the staff member death rate is higher than the BL'er/Guest death rate? I said it before, Dexters gonna Dex. It doesn't matter how intelligent they are, how much money they have/make, what their staff position is, how much their loved ones care about them, etc. There will be fatal OD's. NO MATTER WHAT. BL(HR)or anything else will never null that statistic. Give me proof that anything zeroes that out. Provide proof that staff members are more susceptible.

What everyone in here is arguing about is a SOCIAL forum, which is not the main mission of the site. I am not denying that a social forum such as TL is not helpful to the overall purpose of BL. GM made some excellent points towards that in this thread, or the Announcement thread, I forget which it was. I believe in those points. What's being discussed here, and in the other thread, is how this one Social forum affects the rest of the site. The rest of the site being what drives most traffic, being what drives most funding, to this whole community. TL may have the most posts, but it's not the reason why most discover this site or why they, being personal or corporate sponsors, choose to fund it.

This is coming from someone who only bothers with TL nowadays. It would suck for it to disappear, IMO. Having said that, I can't fully support a situation that I believe ultimately hurts the site, and TL's corollary existence. The staff made a choice to make the forum unseen by unapproved members in order to benefit the site as a WHOLE. Although I don't agree with exactly how (bungled), or how far, they took it, it's a step in the right direction.


I'm going to say this until a fucking admin refutes it 100%, but make the damn forum BL'er/GL'er only accessible and BL'er writable. Revaluate it after half a year and go from there if the forum is faltering. What do you really have to lose at this point? I still haven't gotten an admin reason why that isn't the best way to go.

 

[Kenickie]

I'm going to say this until a fucking admin refutes it 100%, but make the damn forum BL'er/GL'er only accessible and BL'er writable. Revaluate it after half a year and go from there if the forum is faltering. What do you really have to lose at this point? I still haven't gotten an admin reason why that isn't the best way to go.

this is the reason kinda that i stepped down. (and that i knew i wouldn't be trusted on staff when i was living with pander bear who had stepped down.) you have to have 50 posts + to have access to the lounge. originally made for this exact reason and to keep out alts. so i don't know what else you're looking for?

 

[Smoky]

It would suck for it to disappear.. Apologies if it came from me suggesting TL might shut down, I was merely speculating…. from one of a 'few' angles on the subject… of the change recently made. I then said, that this probably will not happen… I was just throwing out some stuff around the johari window and balance for all, which is ideal, but not the reality. I'm glad TL is around, as well as most of the forums on BL.

I hope to be on the site more often!

 

[claire22]

I'm not Australian but if you really think about it Australia was founded by men who cut Englishmen in their sleep and ate their bread. It makes sense they wouldn't be too keen to be associated with law abiding do gooder Uncle Toms who stayed in Europe.

Yeah the international perception of Oz as a place founded by murderers and pedophiles is BS, those guys were executed. the UK was a bigger mess than somebody being hit by a train and people who stole food to eat were shipped off to Aus, got scurvy and undertook years of hard labor to construct the country. Then, they found gold and every cunt and his dog settled. And we definitely hate the English. Bunch of wankers.

^ can you answer for me the question that i've asked busty 3 times now (in this thread now closed so we can focus discussion here) and he's chosen to ignore?

some people (bluelighters, moderators and even an administrator) chose to ignore bl's wealth of information* and ended up in hospital or, worse, dead. how does the responsibility for their actions rest with bl and not they, themselves?

our goal is lasting change that sees the lounge as a thriving social forum with a complexion and culture of its own. as a bluelight forum, the lounge is part of a greater community and is subject to the community rules and guidelines in the same way as every other other forum.

the suggestion that the site ownership or administration want to close or suffocate the lounge is inaccurate and any discussion around that idea is a distraction.

the bl owners and senior staff believe that this lasting change won't happen if we don't solve the problem publicly and with the buy-in of lounge staff and community. we do not believe that a model that hides the forum content behind a subscription is the appropriate path to the goal. as a result, the change implemented on the 29th (to the subscription model) will be rolled back. i.e the lounge will revert to a forum open to all bluelighters, accessed exactly as it was before the 29th. the current lounge guidelines and the blua are in effect and will be enforced.

that said, there is a bottom line: hate speech is not and will not be tolerated in this community and this position is not up for debate.

from here, we'll have a discussion about how the goal is achieved. the roll-back likely won't happen until monday now.

alasdair

firstly, thank-you for the retraction. it's good to see the people still have power here. i'm disappointed in the way it was implemented with zero consultation with anybody whatsoever. i'm sure you anticipated this bite back.

the lounge is a weird place, i won't lie. yes, sometimes people step out of line. hate speech is not cool anywhere. BUT - i think that if it's funny, it's in good taste. it's all about context. obviously a huge spiel about a certain ethnicity and how much you hate them for whatever reason is totally inappropriate, but i don't think that a mild racial reference joke that is far more hilarious and is highly unlikely to even offend somebody of the ethnicity mentioned is okay. obviously, not everybody is going to find the same things funny and a line does need to be drawn. i really don't think it's as much of an issue as the snr staff perceives it to be. Tl staff are pretty good at erasing anything overly offensive that oversteps the line. the lounge is just a hub of inappropriate humour and always will be. the rule for me is if it's funny, it's in good taste. if it's not, it's offensive. hate speech is obviously very offensive and unhumorous and most of us don't do it. the one's that do are usually huge douchebags tbh.

i think the admins focus way too much of their efforts on controlling the lounge, when they should be instead focusing on the focus forums and promoting the site's mission. i'll be the first to admit that the lounge can be terrible to the eye who does not find inappropriate humour particularly amusing. that's ok, some people just don't rate it. i think it's important to remember that a majority of the things said in the lounge are not particularly serious statements. someone may say 'kill yourself' but the chances that person actually wishes death upon that person is pretty damn low. some people get that, some don't. it's all about context man. there's far more important forums on the site to focus upon. the lounge should be the least of your worries.

if you trawl through the rest of the net i'm sure you'll discover that most sites would contain far more offensive stuff than the lounge does, esp message boards. it's contained to the lounge only, so i don't really see why it's such a big deal to you. we all know the rules. some follow them more than others, admittedly, but the one's that don't are picked out pretty quick. i feel like the snr staff has a massive unwarranted personal issue/boner with the lounge for unknown reasons and that's why they're all so enamoured about what goes on there.

obviously nobody is ever responsible for anybody else's death. the person who ingested the drugs knew the risks, and took that chance. most mix a lot of different substances and engage in reckless behaviour when most knew the risks. i don't think any loungers are responsible for any lounge deaths, and same goes for every other forum on the site. you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

 

[mydrugbuddy]

Is it just because that this proposal is currently being considered for TL that some people are also suggesting it for EADD?

I think that would be a huge mistake, to make it some kind of invite-only subscription sub-forum would inevitably result in a massive decine of traffic and active posting on the subforum. The timing of the suggestion strikes me as very strange; in 2014 3 Eadders that i knew died prematurely, in 2013 about 12-15 EADDers died.

Speaking for myself at least, Knocks' death literally stunned as well as greatly saddened me, and everyone else who knew him of course, as he had so much to contribute and he always seemed to be careful with what he was taking. (Same goes for Amanatadine and Babylon Boy. The only difference being that i hadnt personally had the pleasure of getting to know them so well or for so long over the course of my time on these boards)

I think that tragic event has been a turning point for EADD, because Knock was careful, and known for advising others to do the same, he had all the best equipment and took great care to research his doses and not take undue risks. He wasnt reckless. I think on the whole people have been so shocked that they've had to take stock, and realise how real the risks are, even if you are relatively sensible and careful. So the timing of all this comes as a great surprise to me.

Although EADD lost at least 3 huge characters in 2014, each of them extremely gifted and special people, i think the HR message has got through to most, and contrary to what OTW was saying EADD members very much do look out for each other if they think one of the flock may be straying into dangerous territory. More so now that ever. Hiding EADD or making it subscription only/invite only would be a disaster not only for EADD but for BL as a whole as doesnt EADD generate the most traffic anywhere on BL?

And what is all this fuss about discussing sources. People who use drugs clearly make it their business to find out where and how to acquire them, there's a whole world of reallife aquantancies/friends as well as the online forums that do allow source discussion. There is no evidence that this goes on in EADD.

 

[Whosajiggawaaa]

The shrine doesn't have THAT many deaths for a site this big IMHO.

 

[alasdairm]

i am making some changes to the lounge right now. there may be access issues for about 30 minutes.

alasdair

 

[alasdairm]

the lounge changes have just been rolled back. if there are any access issues, please invite those people to post in support.

alasdair

 

[papa]

I don't see any guests viewing the lounge

 

[alasdairm]

I think it's absolutely repulsive how many staff members are in the shrine. I also think it's absolutely despicable that the shrine is at the very bottom of the forum absolutely forgotten and laid out like BoBL. Who thinks that's "respectful remembrance?" Please, show me one person, alasdair, who thinks it's respectful remembrance for a staff member like tobala. Because I need to punch that person. I think it's radically disrespectful and either needs to be scrapped entirely or way more forceful and in your face. I do think I should be shocked every time I see one of tobala's posts - not just because he's a dead administrator, but yeah, maybe he should have DEAD STAFF under his name and a scary avatar. Dying from drugs should be frightening! And staff should stop doing it because not only is it terribly gauche but it directly flies in the face of what we're apparently trying to do here, and staff should be better than that, and yeah, a better example.

there aren't that many people offering 'feedback' in this thread but even those who are can't agree on the shrine. some say it should be front and center with lights on. others that it should be gone forever. it's the very definition of a seemingly "can't please anybody" issue so, if you guys want to get together and constructively come up with a new approach, we're all ears. until then, we'll leave things the way they are.

what the fuck is the point of this website?

the point of bluelight is the same as it's always been.

are you trying to fold into MAPS?

no and it's not clear how hosting a couple of forums for maps could lead any reasonable observer to draw that conclusion.

no dead lounge moderators since i've been around.

but plenty of dead loungers in the last few years. i'm told, as a bluelight staffer, i'm directly responsible for these deaths. why aren't lounge staff responsible when a lounger dies? i've asked busty that question 3 times now and can't get an answer so i'm drawing the obvious conclusion.

with the exception of papa and I guess...animal_cookie? rats are not trusted to have keys.

and with the exeption of all that money, rich people are the same as poor people.

a glance at the lists for admins and senior moderators over time shows that the lounge is as well represented as any other forum.

i've never been in there but i always thought the EADD mods were lounge mod kin.

i have long argued that eadd and the lounge have much more in common than many would like to admit.

i work in PR too alasdair.

then you'll understand that, when you write something you believe in and somebody calls it bullshit or says that it says nothing, that doesn't mean it's bullshot or says nothing.

then stop doing things that suggest it. we're not dumb. it's not a 'distraction' because you can't give any reason as to why this is happening/happened, and so we'll continue thinking the only one that makes any fucking sense which is - the lounge is disliked, and there are a group of people who fucking hate it and wish it gone, and they are making it happen. the simplest explanation is usually the right one, and in 30+ pages of nonsense i haven't heard a real reason as to why this is happening. if you expect us to swallow such a lie at least give us one, instead of all this wishy wash. c'mon alasdair. put a little more work into it. this is like felix level bullshit.

a mistake was made and we've admitted that and rolled back the changes. and still people don't believe it. when you're constantly told that anything you say is a lie or is bullshit, there comes a point at which is obviously just knee-jerk contrariness and you stop listening to those people.

again, if anybody at the owner or admin level wanted the lounge gone, it would just be gone.

That's a bummer that it's being rolled back.

damned if we do and damned if we don't...

firstly, thank-you for the retraction.

you're welcome. i'll not hold my breath waiting for an apology for your lies and abusive posts elsewhere.

obviously nobody is ever responsible for anybody else's death. the person who ingested the drugs knew the risks, and took that chance. most mix a lot of different substances and engage in reckless behaviour when most knew the risks. i don't think any loungers are responsible for any lounge deaths, and same goes for every other forum on the site. you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

i tend to agree. turns out people here disagree with both of us.

alasdair

 

[papa]

I don't see any guests viewing the lounge

Also, moderators who did not join the group, posts require approval

 

[alasdairm]

I don't see any guests viewing the lounge

permissions issue. now fixed.

alasdair

 

[papa]

Thanks ali

 

[subotai]

posting on bluelight is a lot more enjoyable on drugs to be honest

why am I not a doctor yet, fuckin admins holding me back...

just make two forums imo: Drugs, and Not Drugs

 

[papa]

The announcement still needs to be removed

 

[coelophysis]

Will we get editing back in the lounge?

 

[Kittycat5]

I think you can edit now Laika.

 

[coelophysis]

Not in the lounge

 

[Smoky]

I just edited, in TL. I put in 2 smiles faces by mistake, then edited one out