RCs 2 years 3-MMC daily because of severe depression.Danger?Options?

[Student76]

Well pemolin was hard on the liver,the liver enzymes went up.They used it here and in Europe for ADD/ADHS.
But then one person died.Look at the moleküle in wiki.And then compare with 4-MAR.Very similar.
It worked very well for me.I took it 2 years.It worked only on dopamin,perhaps a little serotonin,but absolutely no noradrenaline.
The only substance,except 3 mmc I tolerated without psychosis.

Well I think its all big business.Ritalin is blockbuster.Pemolin was a 1% charge.So they took it from the market.

 

[Student76]

Hello King of Bean.A Modarator from Eve and Rave told me to take 50mg MDPV daily.Thats the ultimate solution.
I started with 10 mg and did not sleep for 3 days.Then I took benzos to end this shit.I was like hyperfocus.But my mood was not very good.
Absolutly nothing for me,worse then ritalin or ethylphenidate.

 

[fatstep]

If it kept you up 3 days then your dose was too high...why not lower the dose. And your moods not supposed to be magically fixed when you take meds for depression, yes meds help but to rely solely on meds is simply incorrect. CB therapy is just as good and when used together as adjunct therapies you'll have best results. You're never going to get anywhere without being in therapy hardcore for a while and figured out your triggers and what helps(apart from 3mmc, I mean what helps psychologically not meds) when you do this you WILL start to feel better

 

[The King of Beans]

50 mg of MDPV is way too much to take for those without tolerence. Even 1 to 5 mg a day I doubt would help anyone with serotonin
problems. It never gave me any serotonin. I didnt do it daily but I did small amounts and it wasn't what I was looking for. Just 0.5 of a gram lasted me about a year. And I heard all these other people abusing it...lol I did the opposite with that crap

 

[Student76]

With 20 mg of MDPV I almost felt nothing.I think because of toleranze to all the meds.
And then with the higher dose there was only hyperfocus for 10 hours.And my mood was not good.Similar to Ritalin I would say.
I think 4 MAR would be interessing as I heard it works on serotonin.4.4 Methylaminorex is not schedule.Anyone tried it?Sources?

 

[The King of Beans]

Yeah I didn't feel much of anything from the MDPV either. It didn't have much euphoria. But it's known to make people go psychotic quickly. Not even sure why people got so addicted to it, when the buzz from it sucked.

 

[Drum]

See below

Student76, this is not a personal attack but you need to put some critical thought into this situation. After reading your three (possibly more) different threads about this specific matter I have some commentary/feedback. You continually ask for advice, and then proceed to dismiss any advice given to you as unscientific after you make completely off the wall claims (I need more dopamine and serotonin, X drugs don't work, I need X drug to function normally). Those who have responded to you obviously took the time to type out thoughtful and coherent responses, and you simply dismiss their commentary at face value. Why even seek advice if you will not logically analyze the pros and cons about what effect your actions will have on your body for the remainder of your life?

Here's the main problem that I see: you are continually justifying your own drug use over and over and over. This is seemingly fueled by your supposed knowledge about pharmacology, psychiatry, and chemistry. You claim to study pharmacology and fail to recognize that 5-HT2B agonism is directly linked to heart problems? I find something odd here, you should be careful and skeptical about what you put into your body, not seeking other drugs to use to combat your problems (4-FA, 6/5-AP(D)B, the FMA series, MDPV, etc.). This especially goes for drugs with a short history of usage in humans, little research into their metabolites/mechanisms of action, and no established safety profile.

I find this to be highly reckless and irresponsible, it's almost as if you have no regard for what you are potentially doing to yourself. Maybe you don't care, but from my point of view you are biased and dismiss all evidence so you can justify what you believe is right. I have noted it time and time again as I have followed the development of your post(s) on this subject. I believe you are playing with fire, it's only a matter of time before you get burned. I have been following this thread and began to construct arguments with evidence debunking several claims you have made in this thread, but I believe that would be a fruitless effort. I do not believe you can analyze evidence contrary to your opinions in any way. You are extremely dismissive and headstrong, I am not quite sure whether or not you are consciously aware of this.

I ask that you critically examine your beliefs and thoughts, put them aside, read my comment, and then reread all of the advice that former bluelighters have offered you. If you cannot do this, or simply refuse to do so, I do not know of a way that I or anyone else can assist you. Your behaviors and actions are extremely concerning and are damaging, it is readily apparent. I really do hope you can take a step back and consider what is happening before you irreparably harm yourself and are forced to live with the consequences. To quote Alexander Shulgin, “You must be careful because sometimes you bend something that doesn’t unbend.” I ask that you question your behavior and critically analyze the advice you have been given, I wish you the best possible outcome with regard to the matter at hand.

 

[f33lg00d]

Other thread was closed so reposting here:

I have severe depression and have been DIAGNOSED by a doctor. Currently I take suboxone (also for my opioid dependence) and trazodone (also for insomnia) for it. I'm considering adding bupropion, maybe you'd be interested in trying that it's a NDRI and is safe for long term use. The matter of the fact, is stimulants do not help depression long term and actually make it worse.

 

[Dresden]

I once read on here somewhere that 4,4'-dimethylaminorex ('serotonii') has killed something like 41 of its users so far this year in the UK alone. Don't risk it.

 

[Student76]

I tried bupropion.Worked for 6 month on 600 mg per day,then popped out.Opiates I will not try till now
With wellbutrin,Bupropion I think the 5 HT2b agonist mechanism also exisists.They only hide it from public.
I had a fast heart beat and the same extrasystols as with 500 mg 3MMC.Absolutly no difference.But till now 3 MMC is not popped out.
Perhaps in a year it also loses its effect.Time will tell.

Thanks Stefanie

 

[Student76]

Hey King of Beans you did almost 30 gramms 3-MMC in a year.Well If I cycle bike and walk or run a half hour a day absolutly no problems on the heart.
But otherwise take 2.5mg bisoprolol.Well a rest risk always is there.But what about smoking or taking Neuroleptics regulary.I do not think it destroys you.
As long as you eat a healthy diat,fruit,drink lots,4 liters mineral water or green tea a day and do sports 2-3 times a week you will survive
Most mods are totally against this consumption daily of 3-MMC but for me it was three years a live saver.The best antidepressant ever.
I had no high or was flying,just normally feeling.

Tho do not worry to much

 

[Shamanism]

So, no danger, no options?
Couldn't you have asked advice in the mirror? Or is your head stuck? How old are you anyway? You obviously don't listen to others.

It seems I'm on ignore list too after this post.
I hope you get some of your sense back, because you are so much in denial right now, it is difficult to watch.

 

[f33lg00d]

I tried bupropion.Worked for 6 month on 600 mg per day,then popped out.

What do you mean by popped out?

Opiates I will not try till now

I really wouldn't recommend opiates for depression, but if you must stick to weak ones like maybe codiene's OTC in you're country. Bupes good too as it has limited abuse potential, lasts all day, and develops tolerance very slowly, but it's a little strong for a nontolerant user.

With wellbutrin,Bupropion I think the 5 HT2b agonist mechanism also exisists.They only hide it from public.

Look home girl, no offence, but that's completely insane. There's no conspiracy bupropion is well studied by multiple sources. Just because a drug feels similar to another doesn't mean it has the same mechanism of action.

 

[Student76]

Let's see!!!

There are the SSRIs.Why the latency from 2-4 weeks and in 40 % of the patients there is no response?

I see it this way.First there is the theory the 5HT1a Autoreptor recognizes more Serotonine,so first output from the
vesikels is reduced.Then after time this Autorezeptor is desensitized and voila more Serotonin.Mood lift.Depression is gone.

BUT:There are two things in the synaptic cleft there is always coexistenz of more then one transmitter.Not only serotonin,but also gaba,dopamin and many others.Its a reactiv system.If you put in more serotonin the brain tries to adjust and IF ITS POWERFULL ENOUGH! then it produces more of
the other transmitters until the equilibrium is back again.But if you have weak parts or damaged part(thats endogene depression) then
the brain has not the power to produce enough of the other transmitters(cause:damaged part of the brain,colon diseases,and so on)

Then YOU have MAO A. Monoaminooxidase A which removes the serotonin after its done its work (easy spoken)
There are people with MAO A ++(high activitiy) and with MAO-- (low activity).I think those with high Mao A leves never respond.
The other part is pumped back(Reuptake pumps) in the vesikels mainly during sleep those pumps have the highest activity.

But If you use Serotonin releasers well there is much more serotonin,also when you have MAO++ ,and the autoreceptor has from day 1 no chance to
reduce output.There will be also a desensitizion of the 5 HT1a Autorezeptor ofer time with releasers.So there is an antidepressant effect from day one.

OK in pub med they compared neurotoxity from MDMA and 4 MMC and the later had no neurotoxicity.

It may be that you need more and more over timer from a releasing substanze,but if you make brakes and give your vesikels time to refuel then they work again.
The only thing I can see is that every releasing substance has abuse potentil.So there never will be releasing antidepressants.

But please give me a proof they are more or extremly harmfull(3 MMC) then SSRI(ex paroxetine).Not MDMA thats an other part and an other Story.
Perhaps they poop out,but that do many antidepressants(if you are a responder) too.

And now its your turnif you have studies(Pub med) or theories then try to explain and I can say from expirience i am not losing my IQ or Memory the last 3 years.
Well If I take perhaps 200mg i am a little like drunk for half an hour;-)With benzos, I find them more evil.If you take to much of them over a long peroid of time(years)memory is going down,(Short time memory mainly)

Well lets see If someone here has knowledge , and not always the same pattern drugs are bad(every SSRI is a drug,from tranylcypromin to Amitryptilin to Remergil to Strattera).Ok there are some substances that are neurotoxic,but others only if you take high doses.The dosing is relevant I would say.

 

[Student76]

Hello this is a special question to Jesus if he is still here?

You know i use low dose 3 mmc for years.It still works.

How do you rate 5-APB, 6 APB and 5-MAPB?say 3 times a week very low dose?
I need one with only little Serotonin release and mostly dopamine.
I do not like if there ist a psychedelic componente.
My german vendor sells 5-MAPB.Should I try it?
I tolerate the 3 MMC very good.OK i take some days of,but 5 days a week 4x100mg ist fine.
No depression after wards and no other problems(ok sometimes extrasystoles,then I take bisoprolol and its ok in 30 minutes)

I do not substanzes where serotonin is the big player like MDMA or Methylone.Then I have depression the next 3 days.

Your wrote:

6-APDP is more stimulating(meaning more dopamine?) than MDMA which is more stimulating than 5-MAPB if I recall correctly
So 4 MMC was not my thing.I tried it,but there are studies it releases serotonin:dopamin 8:10.I did not like it.
3-MMC 2:10.(serotonine:dopamine)That was perfect for me.But toleranz is going up after the years so I thought about trying 5-MAPB or 6 MAPB.

Which one would you choose if you want a ratio of high dopamin/ low serotonin?And no crash the following days?

Thank you

Anja

 

[nothing87]

Let's see!!!

There are the SSRIs.Why the latency from 2-4 weeks and in 40 % of the patients there is no response?

Not everyone's metabolism and neurochemistry is the same. SSRIs take time to increase neurogenesis in the hippocampus.

I see it this way.First there is the theory the 5HT1a Autoreptor recognizes more Serotonine,so first output from the
vesikels is reduced.Then after time this Autorezeptor is desensitized and voila more Serotonin.Mood lift.Depression is gone.

What in the actual fuck? There are actual scientific explanations that have evidence instead of the "way you see it."

BUT:There are two things in the synaptic cleft there is always coexistenz of more then one transmitter.Not only serotonin,but also gaba,dopamin and many others.Its a reactiv system.If you put in more serotonin the brain tries to adjust and IF ITS POWERFULL ENOUGH! then it produces more of
the other transmitters until the equilibrium is back again.But if you have weak parts or damaged part(thats endogene depression) then
the brain has not the power to produce enough of the other transmitters(cause:damaged part of the brain,colon diseases,and so on)

If you "put more serotonin in the brain" less serotonin will be released and receptors will be trafficked back into the neuronal membrane to cease the excessive activity. Downregulation will occur. Receptor density will decrease, and if a receptor becomes activated it will produce less of a response. You clearly don't understand what you are talking about...

Then YOU have MAO A. Monoaminooxidase A which removes the serotonin after its done its work (easy spoken)
There are people with MAO A ++(high activitiy) and with MAO-- (low activity).I think those with high Mao A leves never respond.
The other part is pumped back(Reuptake pumps) in the vesikels mainly during sleep those pumps have the highest activity.

Yes, people are different. It is not surprising that MAO levels vary between individuals. Yes, neurotransmitters are subject to reuptake and repackaged into vesicles...so?

But If you use Serotonin releasers well there is much more serotonin,also when you have MAO++ ,and the autoreceptor has from day 1 no chance to
reduce output.There will be also a desensitizion of the 5 HT1a Autorezeptor ofer time with releasers.So there is an antidepressant effect from day one.

That antidepressant effect is quickly lost from serotonin releasing agents as neurochemical and receptor downregulation occurs. What is your point?

OK in pub med they compared neurotoxity from MDMA and 4 MMC and the later had no neurotoxicity.

In what aspect? Exitotoxicity? Oxidative stress? Damage to serotonin transporters...? What dosage? What amount was administered? What route of administration? What animal model was used to arrive at these "findings"...

It may be that you need more and more over timer from a releasing substanze,but if you make brakes and give your vesikels time to refuel then they work again.
The only thing I can see is that every releasing substance has abuse potentil.So there never will be releasing antidepressants.

Just taking more drugs will not solve your problems. It is not sustainable.

But please give me a proof they are more or extremly harmfull(3 MMC) then SSRI(ex paroxetine).Not MDMA thats an other part and an other Story.
Perhaps they poop out,but that do many antidepressants(if you are a responder) too.

You just said MDMA wasn't neurotoxic ? What point are you trying to make?

And now its your turnif you have studies(Pub med) or theories then try to explain and I can say from expirience i am not losing my IQ or Memory the last 3 years.
Well If I take perhaps 200mg i am a little like drunk for half an hour;-)With benzos, I find them more evil.If you take to much of them over a long peroid of time(years)memory is going down,(Short time memory mainly)

Neurotoxicity is not always immediately noticeable from behavioral phenotype or your made up psychometrics...

Well lets see If someone here has knowledge , and not always the same pattern drugs are bad(every SSRI is a drug,from tranylcypromin to Amitryptilin to Remergil to Strattera).Ok there are some substances that are neurotoxic,but others only if you take high doses.The dosing is relevant I would say.

The amount of an active compound administered can mediate it's potential for neurotoxicity? You don't say.

We get it. You took an introductory neuroscience/pharmacology course. You have no idea what you are actually talking about.

 

[nothing87]

How do you rate 5-APB, 6 APB and 5-MAPB?say 3 times a week very low dose?

A horrifically bad idea.

I need one with only little Serotonin release and mostly dopamine.
I do not like if there ist a psychedelic componente.

The (M)APB series is a terrible choice for "what you need."

My german vendor sells 5-MAPB.Should I try it?

NO.

I do not substanzes where serotonin is the big player like MDMA or Methylone.Then I have depression the next 3 days.

Stay away from the APB series then.

6-APDP is more stimulating(meaning more dopamine?) than MDMA which is more stimulating than 5-MAPB if I recall correctly
So 4 MMC was not my thing.I tried it,but there are studies it releases serotonin:dopamin 8:10.I did not like it.
3-MMC 2:10.(serotonine:dopamine)That was perfect for me.But toleranz is going up after the years so I thought about trying 5-MAPB or 6 MAPB.

Which one would you choose if you want a ratio of high dopamin/ low serotonin?And no crash the following days?

None of the above.

 

[Student76]

If I took Amphetamines over 100 mg a day and ritalin 50 over years thats also not good.Also 10 years of Benzodiazepines are not healthy.And I take bromazepam 24 mg thats about 40 mg diazpeam.
I only want a sort of comparison If substances like 3 MMC or 5 MAPB do more harm in the long run or are equally harmfull.MDPV is evil and 4MMC was to strong for me.Psychedilics and THC,also Opiods are not what i am looking for.
I know its not healty.But if you take perphaps a dose of 3 MMC or 5 MAPB not to high( Say 10/20 mg a day MAPB) thats about 80 mg a week.
Some use it once a month but then 300 mg or more.And then I ask here the questions what does more harm?

Thats perhaps all I want to understand from longterm users.Shrinks never will have an answer to this.For them Amphetamines do no harm nor ritalin.They are testet on animals and many studies which often are payed and faked.Thats not true that SSRI or ritalin help growing brain cells.There are studies that show the contrairy.
They are also releaser of Serotonine,Dopamin and do lot of things to the brain which is not healthy.So I am looking further.Perhaps this is the
wrong forum,but I think there are many which use drugs because they often feel mentally bad and use so Rcs or call them drugs(all psycho meds are drugs in my opinion because they alter brain chemistry) not only for party.


Anja

 

[Student76]

Hello! nothing 87!

Your wrote:SSRIs take time to increase neurogenesis in the hippocampus.Thats not true.There are the studies from the big
pharmacie companies that tell that.Why comes depression back if there is lot of neurogenisis if you stop only one day???
There are studies on pub med that show the exact oposite.The brain only tries to repaire the damage they do to the hippocampus.
Then you can messure neurogenisis...you also no nothing.

Receptor density will decrease, and if a receptor becomes activated it will produce less of a response.
Yes thats the theory with the funktion on 5HT1a receptors and way the latency until they work,no explanation
why they only work in about 50 % of the population.Why?

you wrote:That antidepressant effect is quickly lost from serotonin releasing agents as neurochemical and receptor downregulation occurs. What is your point?I do not think its lost any faster as with SSRIs or other meds(MAO,Tri,Rem usw).But the point is what if SSRI or pharma meds do not work???

Well I said that MDMA has neurotoxicity and is harmfull.I would not advice to take that daily.But Amphetamines in high doses I think are also Neurotoxic.
I would say If you have so much knowledge then tell me what to do?take no drugs?and then?suicide if endogene depression
and ADD is so severe or take the risk to test untested substances.

I can say the same to you:You have no idea what you are actually talking about.You can not look inside someones
brain and how he reacts to different chemicals.Each brain,and each brain disease is differnt.

So If you are absolutly healthy be happy and do not write any more to people with disease you never understand.
Or you are like those shrinks that only read books,throw meds on patients and play god.You see only the damage.Smoking is also bad so alkohol if to much.

Anja

 

[sekio]

So what is your point?

Why do you even bother asking questions if you're just going to form your own conclusions independent of the evidence provided? Discounting studies because pharmaceutical companies funded them is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. You surely can't do any better, I don't see you conducting blinded trials and running CT scans on people!

What do you want to hear? That it's 100% fine for you to be taking drugs which demonstratively produce damage in animal and cell models? If you've come to that conclusion yourself why do you keep trying to get others to justify it?

If you are convinced that taking cathinones for your endogenous depression is what you need, then take them, go on a fucking binge if you want, and blow all your serotonin down the drain. But don't be surprised if one day you find that they stop working and you are back to square one. Don't expect taking even stronger euphoriants to help either.

This thread is going to get closed if all that it's going to result in is a bunch of wanking.