Salvia extract - salvia noob - good experience as a tea drink

[fractalality]

Last week I tried salvia divinorum for the first time. I smoked it, and was not happy with the experience. I've posted the details in a Trip Report here: http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/734197-Salvia-20X-salvia-noob-never-smoking-again

Afterwards, I didn't want to throw out the remainder of the gram of 20X I had purchased. So I looked into other methods of use, and came across this: http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/670417-Salvia-Tea-Experienced-Smooth-Subtle-and-Powerful

It inspired me to give salvia another go, this time as a tea. To me, this seemed feasible as it really is the same idea as quidding, but a lot more practical. I did it a bit different from that post, and wanted to record my recent experiences, as there seems to be little out there about enjoying salvia this way.

Brewing it:
Using a small sauce pan, I put in 1 cup of cold water and about 3/4 teaspoon or so of 20X salvia extract. I brought it to a low boil, and let it continue for about 10 minutes. I then took it off the heat and let it sit another 10 minutes.

I tilted the pan to let the extract settle to the bottom, and was able to pour the liquid into a mug w/o straining it. It was a clear green.

Session 1:
While still warm, I took a sip of the tea, letting it sit under my tongue for about 90 seconds or so. I had no problem with the taste (I see a lot of complaints about that), it might be cuz it was under my tongue instead of on it. I then swallowed it, and repeated the sipping, sitting, swallowing, until half the mug was drunk. This was about 10 AM.

I gradually eased into a very psychedelic space. It was basically like an acid mindframe but w/o hallucinations. My heart was pounding, and I was feeling very hyper, pacing about the apartment. I was essentially lucid and functional, but definitely feeling trippy. It was a sunny day, so I got dressed and went for a walk in the nearby park, w/ my iPod. No problem navigating, it was beautiful.

I'd say the main experience lasted about an hour, but there was an afterglow that lasted the rest of the day. By the time I got home, I was totally drained, and crashed on the couch for several hours. When I woke I was exhausted, so I just took it easy for the rest of the day.

It had been physically demanding, but generally a positive experience.

Session 2:
Later that same day, around 10 PM, I decided I wanted to use the remainder. I had left it sitting in a closed plastic container, so it was now fully cooled down. I took it outside and sat on the house stoop. Beautiful breezeless night, full moon. Again I used the same sipping, sitting, swallowing process as before.

The same psychedelic space gradually came on again. But w/o the heart pounding or restlessness. I just felt less tired. I was able to just chill on the steps and watch everything around me, and process the experience. Still no hallucinations. After about a half hour, I took a walk around the neighborhood, which was nice. By the time I went back in the house, the main part was over (again, it was about an hour), but of course there was a strong afterglow, so I just relaxed and watched some TV.

I finally went to sleep, and had some very vivid dreams, and upon waking felt very trippy again. I would say the afterglow didn't really go away until after 24 hours or so. And actually, after 36 hours, it's still hanging around a little.

It wasn't really about seeing trails or patterns or aliens, it was about being able to see and think about reality from that "other" perspective, and what that may or may not mean.

So, the second session was even better than the first.

Summary:
Making and using the tea is easy. And the experience seems longer lasting and manageable than when smoking. Again, some people complain about the taste, but I had no issue with it. Interestingly, it looks like a regular green tea, and has no strong odor.

Part of what's cool about this is salvia is legal in my state, and using the normally available extract worked fine for this, so it's pretty convenient. I haven't used any illegal substances in a long time, but always wanted to do something psychedelic again. So for me, this works out OK. But I won't be mixing it with anything else.

The idea is that the salvinorin is absorbed in the mouth, and swallowing is not how it is ingested. That's the point of holding it under the tongue for a length of time. I do about 90 sec.s for each sip, as I assume each sip gets diluted as it sits there.

For me, all of the behaviors seen from smoking it, like stupor, laughter, dropping to the floor, arm waving, wandering around, or panic, don't happen with a salvia tea. I was able to speak, walk around, navigate, operate an iPod, TV, or computer with no problems. But I would definitely not try to drive or do anything requiring critical attention, coordination, or control.

The heart pounding and restlessness I described didn't happen the second time. So I'm not sure if it was anxiety, or I was too burned out for any stimulant effect to, um, affect me, or if using it right after brewing is different from letting it sit for 12 hours. Some further sessions might clarify that, and a lot of other questions. Right now I'm assuming a lot.

After a session, I did not feel sick or have a headache or anything like that. But again, there seems to be a long period of afterglow.

I will grant now that smoking it may be more "efficient", but for me the longer, more pleasant, and more useful experience I have with this method makes it more worthwhile.

For me, it does not seem to create a euphoria, or hallucinations, but an alternative mind space from which to view and think about reality. But that mind space can be challenging, so I need to make sure to be in the right mood and setting for it.

Possible variations:

• Using a higher extract level (e.g. 35X or 50X).
• Using more salvia in the water.
• Boiling it longer.
• Using something other than water.
• Letting it sit for half a day before using.
• Letting it sit longer each time in the mouth.
• Consuming a full cup instead of half.
• Spitting it out instead of swallowing.

Addendum:
Note that I have changed a couple of numbers that I think I underestimated originally about amount and time.

 

[JackARoe]

Thanks for the write up Fractalality. I must say both RhythmSpring and yourself have me intrigued with the notion of a Salvia tea. I had been getting along very well smoking since 1998. After a breakthrough with a 5x all I needed after that was plain leaf in a tobacco pipe. One to two puffs and the whole ride happens. I actually love smoking it when I need too. Usually when I am in a funk. It is always late at night and total darkness and silence. So the notion of taking a tea in daylight is a whole other angle. I have quidded to some mild effects. I always thought that Salvia had to be kept in the mouth to get absorbed by the gums or smoked. So it makes sense when you say hold the sips under your tongue. That is probably a key point in tea.

I'll have to give this a shot at some point, thanks for confirming what RhythmSpring had written about. And yes, there were several bills to make Salvia illegal in my state and they all collected dust so it is legal. I guess once there was no one going to a hospital over Salvia it didn't matter much. It's over too quick and people come right back to normal. But I have learned a lot over the years with Salvia. I am an old school psychedelic guy, so Salvia would be the only "dissociative" I would touch these days. I was never much for other dissociatives, but Salvia is different as we know and I can learn from it. I don't know why I come from that generation that doesn't include dissociatives as entheogens, but I do. :D It's an age thing. It must be with all the newer RC's coming out that I have no interest in. But Salvia I consider an entheogen. Just my opinion of course, and I like reading reports of most substances.

 

[fractalality]

Thanks for the write up Fractalality. I must say both RhythmSpring and yourself have me intrigued with the notion of a Salvia tea... So it makes sense when you say hold the sips under your tongue. That is probably a key point in tea... I'll have to give this a shot at some point, thanks for confirming what RhythmSpring had written about... I don't know why I come from that generation that doesn't include dissociatives as entheogens, but I do. :D It's an age thing. It must be with all the newer RC's coming out that I have no interest in. But Salvia I consider an entheogen.

Thanks. I'm definitely not an expert in smoking it, so I don't presume to compare the methods beyond my one smoking experience and what I've seen in articles and videos.

And yes, RhythmSpring's report was very useful. There's very little out there written about salvia as a drink, which seemed strange. Maybe the more people try it, the more we can learn about best practices for it.

As you can see, I figured I would start out with a very basic process that would be easy to vary, as I was just guessing and didn't know what to expect. Plus, it didn't require any special materials other than standard kitchen utensils and normally available 20X extract, nor a lot of time or effort. So no big loss if it didn't work.

And yes, from my reading about quidding it seemed that holding it under the tongue made sense to get the effect. And since it's under the tongue, it avoids the "bitter area" of the tongue (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tongue_map), at least until it's swallowed. What I might do at some point is try spitting it out afterwards instead of swallowing to see if that makes a difference in effect.

As far as dissociatives vs entheogens, I think anything that alters perception can be a learning experience of some kind, though not necessarily "spiritual". For me, acid was the only thing I took seriously for deep insight. The salvia tea gives me something very similar in an accessible, legal, and maybe more natural way.

If you try it and post something about it, please give me a heads up

 

[fractalality]

I tried it again last night.

Well actually, I made a new tea yesterday in the morning, and divided it into 2 half cup servings which then sat covered for the day.

I then used one serving about 15 hours later (this time spitting it out instead of swallowing, to confirm the sub-lingual vs digestion thing). I just relaxed and watched the movie "Grace of my Heart" (which I'd seen b4 about a zillion times). The effect didn't seem as powerful as the previous ones, but it was like I'd never seen that movie before, catching a lot of new details and understanding it differently. But the heart-pounding/feeling-hyper thing didn't occur this time either. I then used the other serving, which didn't seem to have much additional effect.

But this morning I'm feeling quite spacey.

It's possible I didn't use enough salvia when brewing, or maybe I let it boil or set too long. I have enough 20X for one more time, which I think I will brew for 10 min.s max, then use while still warm.

Note:
It seemed like the "afterglow" from Sunday's session took about 48 hours to fully subside. I wonder if that will be true for this time as well.

Summary:
Watching a movie with the tea was a good experience, I was able to just chill and enjoy it. I wasn't sure if I would be able to. Conveniently the effect lasts around the same length as a movie, so that's handy.

 

[pupnik]

ixnay the under the tongueay for salvia tea

just drink it as fast as possible
it can be effective...

I have used twigs of the plant effectively in a satisfactory if bad tasting boiled drink.
salvinorin ( which is a kind of waxy solid at human tolerable temperatures) absorbs slowly so under the tongue does very little to increase your systemic uptake.
smoking gets enough in quickly and drinking the tea quickly is workable (but not as effective as smoking)

some elixirs such as with dmso will absorb more quickly for threshold effect (i.e. 90 seconds seems to be the half life of the primary effect)

 

[pupnik]

further to that the whole notion of quidding being the true shamanic way is false.
the shaman was laughing at the white man scientist who saw him make a nice cigar from salvia.
the impish shaman - with a very serious face - said that they can chew this (instead of drying it as a cigar)
and then proceeded to tell them all about maria pastora while the white scientists were drooling green splotch trying to get the "real" sense of salvia.

don't you know shamanic practice is bound up with trickery and has no interest in supporting the shenanigans of self important white scientists or any other power structure.

 

[JackARoe]

further to that the whole notion of quidding being the true shamanic way is false.

I agree pupnik, I remember the Kathleen Harrison stating that smoking is the wrong way and the shamanic way was to quid. Well the fact that smoking took off in the our current society only means to me that's what Salvia wanted. :D (I know, I had to throw one cosmic thought in there as we talk science). But smoking has suited me for years and it has been very good to me. No one has a monopoly on how to use substances. We are all human beings an have options.

Interesting on the tea being drunk, whether held in the mouth or not. I will try both ways when I get around to it and will come back to this thread. Thanks for the ongoing updates fracticality.

 

[fractalality]

ixnay the under the tongueay for salvia tea

just drink it as fast as possible
it can be effective...

I have used twigs of the plant effectively in a satisfactory if bad tasting boiled drink.
salvinorin ( which is a kind of waxy solid at human tolerable temperatures) absorbs slowly so under the tongue does very little to increase your systemic uptake.
smoking gets enough in quickly and drinking the tea quickly is workable (but not as effective as smoking)

some elixirs such as with dmso will absorb more quickly for threshold effect (i.e. 90 seconds seems to be the half life of the primary effect)

Like I said earlier, I'm working with extract, and trying to keep it simple; and the effects are notable. Here I'm just describing what I'm doing and why. And if anyone else wishes to try it, or extend from it, they are welcome to. I would love to hear the results. At the same time , tho, I can't comment on methods I haven't tried. I'm no expert.

further to that the whole notion of quidding being the true shamanic way is false.

Um, k. That must be about a discussion I'm not aware of. I hope it doesn't mean this thread will get hijacked by some kind of politic I'm not trying to address.

Interesting on the tea being drunk, whether held in the mouth or not. I will try both ways when I get around to it and will come back to this thread. Thanks for the ongoing updates fracticality.

You're welcome. And for me, again, the idea here is to figure out a way to try variations using a tea and see what does or doesn't work, and to what degree. And again, there's almost no info out there about drinking it, so I hope doing this actually adds to the options.


I've already done just under-the-tongue and under-the-tongue/swallowing. Both have a notable effect. I have the option now to also try just swallowing and seeing what that does.


But all I can do is describe all this from my own perspective.

 

[Xorkoth]

Thanks for doing these experiments fractality, it is indeed adding to the amount of available information. I am interested myself in trying salvia orally/sublingually. I have smoked it on a number of occasions but never powerful extracts so I haven't gotten too far though I have had several notable experiences. I am interested in a longer and less intense alternative and the tool that might prove to be, yet as you say, it's difficult to find information.

 

[pupnik]

siebert has reasonable info on sublingual and so does ott
both are using strong solvents
without strong solvents sublingual is ludicrous.
salvinorin is a waxy crystalline solid, and it has a very short period of activity so you need to get it into blood quickly.

 

[Xorkoth]

Not much in the way of varied experience reports though. I like being able to read accounts for many individuals to see a broader overview of subjective effects.

 

[fractalality]

Tried again the other day in the morning.

20X, 10 min's boiling, 10 minutes steeping. But boiled it down more than usual, so a cup of water was now 1/3 cup. I did half of that sublingually, and went for a walk in the park.

On the way, it gradually came on very strong. I started experiencing that "falling away" sensation that I went thru the one time I smoked it. But, again, it was gradual, so I was able to react to it more consciously. This was the most powerful experience I've had with tea so far.

After about an hour I got home and was kind of spent so I slept for a few hours. When I woke I was still a bit trippy, which lasted into the next day.

I had stored the other half, which I used last night. It seemed to have very little effect. Although when I woke up this morning I was feeling a little trippy. It's possible that having it sit for 36 hours or so makes it lose potency. I'm sure also drinking it cold has an impact as well. So probably fresh and hot is the best way.

So far, to me, salvia seems to have as much an anesthetic-ish effect as a psychedelic one.

 

[pupnik]

Tried again the other day in the morning.
...
So far, to me, salvia seems to have as much an anesthetic-ish effect as a psychedelic one.

totally

 

[fractalality]

Making it into a tea sounds interesting. Really interesting.

I drink tea quite often, mostly green tea. Recently I've tried red tea with camomile tea and it tastes really good. I should try that with salvia one day.

Possibly. Plz make sure you read the OP completely. I haven't done any mixing with tea, or tried just drinking it. I always do this, so far, by letting it sit under the tongue. So I don't know if just mixing it with regular teas and just drinking will do anything. It's something I plan to test later on.

 

[pupnik]

drinking works better than holding under the tongue.
more surface contact.

 

[fractalality]

I bought a gram of 35X over the w/e, and yesterday made tea with 1/2 teaspoon of that in a cup of water, boiling for 10 min.s then steeping for 10 min.s. It resulted in 1/3 cup of tea.

I sat down to watch a movie ("Ramen Girl") and started sipping it and holding it sublingually (90 sec.s each time). I did about half of the tea. The effect was pretty strong. After about 40 minutes, I paused the movie and played guitar for about half an hour. Wow. I then went back to the movie and sipped more. The effect became even stronger. Luckily it came on slowly so it was easy to react to. It got to a point that I didn't feel I should do all of it, so I tossed what was maybe 5 more sips that were left.

It was the most powerful experience so far, psychedelic (again, no hallucinations), but still manageable, and was feeling very similar to when I smoked it. It probably lasted about 2 hours total then quickly subsided. But I felt very dopey, so I needed a few hours sleep after. Overall, it was fun, and got me thinking about some things.

Next time I'll do all of it.

 

[fractalality]

drinking works better than holding under the tongue.
more surface contact.

Full stomach or empty? As in right after lunch, or skip lunch?

 

[fractalality]

Fuck.

Last night I did the normal routine, but just sat and listened to some quiet music. I used almost all of the tea, it was pretty powerful. I tried to use all of it, but just couldn't. I'm not sure if I wasn't feeling well or just in a bad mood, but it was a non-fun evening. My limbs and torso felt severely weighed down, I just wanted to lay down and close my eyes, but I refused to. I wanted to see what would happen if I fought it. I was very nauseous and everything felt negative. After about 2 hours it all finally subsided. I was exhausted and went to bed. I think I fell asleep almost instantly. Felt exhausted when I woke up.

At some point I will just lay back, close my eyes, and see where it goes.

 

[pupnik]

Full stomach or empty? As in right after lunch, or skip lunch?

skip lunch - chug the tea (no pause for sublinguality), you need 20 to 40x what you would smoke to get the same effect as smoking but a longer duration.

 

[fractalality]

skip lunch - chug the tea (no pause for sublinguality), you need 20 to 40x what you would smoke to get the same effect as smoking but a longer duration.

Coincidentally, I did that today.

Using 1/2 teaspoon 35X in 1 cup water, boiled 10 min.s steeped 10 min.s. It boiled down to 1/4 cup, I drank it all in one shot.

I had had some cereal and coffee around 7 AM, and did the tea around 11 AM (and was feeling pretty hungry).

Took about 20 min.s, then very little effect overall, more just a mild feeling of sedation, no noticeable psychedelic effect. Nowhere near as powerful as my experiences with it sublingually using the same specs.