Opioids Methadone clinic NOT helping..about to go on vacation..HELP!!

[ztalbott]

I've read some comments but I'm mainly replying to the original post....

Your clinic can apply for what's called an "exception" for you under the federal regulations where they apply to CSAT (federal gov't) and your SOTA (state gov't) and ask for an exemption to the normal takehome requirements... You'll have to provide a licit UA (no illicit substances), and it's still the discretion of the clinic. That's typically your best option when you're traveling outside the country (Cancun is in Mexico) because "guest medicating" or "courtesy dosing" typically can only be set up WITHIN the United States' clinic system.

If your clinic absolutely refuses to work with you then I would enlist the help of a patient advocate from the National Alliance of Methadone Advocates, Inc. (NAMA)... You can file a grievance with NAMA via their website: http://www.methadone.org/grievance_report.html

 

[ztalbott]

Also no clinic on earth is going to give you 8 days of 'done at once. Especially not at 125mg a dose...

This is just simply not true. The federal regulations governing opioid treatment programs ("methadone clinics") in the United States allow for up to a month of takehomes when a patient meets certain requirements based on time in treatment and number of licit drug screens... Also treatment programs can apply for an "exception" to ask for takehomes prior to qualification for them under the normal regulations (in the event of vacation, family death, travel for work, etc.). I was able to receive a week of takehomes at 120mg/day at roughly 2 months in treatment to go on vacation when I wasn't anywhere close to qualifying for a week of takehomes under the normal regs. My treatment center simply applied for the allowed "exception" under the law. I have since been in treatment for a few years and and completely compliant with my treatment plans and have totally licit urine screens; I am living in long-term, sustained recovery thanks to methadone treatment --- I now receive 4 weeks of takehomes at 120mg's/day each month.

 

[average extreme]

You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you have a bunch of methadone in your system you may feel normal but you're absolutely not sober. Also no clinic on earth is going to give you 8 days of 'done at once. Especially not at 125mg a dose... that's a gram of methadone. Enough to kill probably 50 people.

i get 7x 80mg / day and if i could provide a clean screening, they'd give me take home for the whole week. one of my friends is on 160mg/day and he visits the clinic only once a week to get his whole week dose, 7x160mg. we can apply for holiday take-home here (once evry year) - up to 31 days take-home....

i'd try to get into another clinic asap.

 

[lolwhatzdrugs]

She mentions "one slip up" I'm assuming a positive test for H in the last two weeks. I would doubt that she qualifies for this exception? But I haven't a clue

 

[Emme80]

Unfortunately, this is the nature of the beast. I am with a rather strict clinic- "by the book". I am allowed 2 weeks of take homes. (I could do a month if I took the pills, but find it easier to decrease w/liquid)I've been with these take homes for a few years now&the doses have ranged from...approx. 145mg..(indeed way to high of a dose than I should have ever been on)down to my current dose of 28mg.-tho I'm truly down to 12mg. b/c I've been reducing on my own with my take homes.
What I can say, is that it is very reasonable that your clinic, if you're a rather new client, with dirty UA's (with the exception of 1 if I read correctly), would not grant you the take homes - even with an "exception"..usually, and I think this is common practice, no take homes for the 1st. 30days &after that, you need to give multiple clean UA's. As sucky as it may be, it's what you signed up for. I , even w/the bitterness I feel towards methadone clinics now , don't believe you can blame the methadone clinic for not "helping you". Methadone is by far not going to keep you from using. You are. A true commitment, a 180degree change needs to happen. It's difficult, very true. But it is up to you. As for the issue of using on the side being b/c the clinic is not helping you...the truth is , you will never "stabalize" until you stop using on the side. And if the methadone "high" is found(anything after the 1st week or so- I remember feeling a type of euphoria at the very beginning)... don't chase it as you will only increase increase increase and be on a ridiculously high dose- which at some point sooner than later,that "High" will end & you'll be stuck on this beast, at a very high dose , which will take a lot of time to get off of, and still in chains..more chained down than you are now. It does suck that all you want is to go away for 8days&you can't get "take homes". I don't want to come off as harsh, but legally, rationally, don't you realize why they wouldn't grant you this? As long as you're still using on the side- except for the last 2wks.- you're at risk. I, as others have said, know that unfortunately, freedom is limited, constrained as long as I am on methadone. When you signed up for this, the "rules" are there. True, as mentioned, jumping off /wd'ing from your current dose is quite a... Well, unadvised. I know I would be in a heightened panic if I were where you're at. But the reality very well may be, that you will have to bow out if this 8day trip. And 8dsys away from the dealers you know is not going to be the change you're needing. It's a decision to be made even when they're in your face . I truly truly do wish you a peaceful heart. The worries of being able to participate in life by needing something to feeling "normal" are a shite way to live- I know. Maybe you can speak to a doctor, ask your clinic for suggestions, don't go in accusing them of not helping you. Perhaps, with your boyfriend, you can figure out a way to graciously bow out - i.e. work? Something like that?
Again, I truly do hope that you can find peace&resolve soon. You can have a life w/o this being a nearly health/LIFE issue. If you don't go, make that your reason to get your life back...maybe that will be a breaking point- where you see how this is holding you back from life- simple as that. Be strong & make that change . Please keep posted on how things worked out& please know I don't mess to sound harsh. It's just the reality&restrictions of the beast ...and the restrictions the clinics go by- for some good reasons.
Hope it all works out for you&be strong. I know you have it in you!

 

[Azure Cloud]

I'd advise not going on the cruise. You're at too high a dose to switch to subs, too high a dose to successfully taper in a reasonable time frame, too high a dose to substitute with any legal medications, and too high a dose to find anything at a Cancun pharmacy that will be useful.

Sure, oxies are available in other parts of Mexico (or used to be, haven't looked for a while) but not in Cancun. I'm not 100% sure if methadone is even available in Mexico. I've been to about every pharmacia in Jurez and that one was never offered.

 

[SpunkySkunk347]

You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you have a bunch of methadone in your system you may feel normal but you're absolutely not sober. Also no clinic on earth is going to give you 8 days of 'done at once. Especially not at 125mg a dose... that's a gram of methadone. Enough to kill probably 50 people.

You don't need to exaggerate so much; many clinics give a patient their doses for the next 7 days in advance during weekly visits. A gram of methadone would not kill 50 people; there's no need to spread misinformation like that.

Unless you take a fuckload of opiates with you, you're gonna feel withdrawal no matter what. It will probably take more than a few months to taper off a methadone dose that high. The best I can think of is stopping your 'done ASAP - like today - and getting through the worst of the w/d before you leave. If you're feelin froggy then leap.

She should ask if she could see the clinic doctor and explain her situation.

There could also be legal issues with bringing narcotics (legally prescribed) into other countries, check the local laws and bring all appropriate documentation before you leave to avoid anything unpleasant at Customs. Don't even bother trying to smuggle illegally purchased Suboxone or whatever in, and also don't try to buy narcotics down there... unless you fancy having your boyfriends' family bailing you out of a Carribean jail.

According to this site: http://www.indro-online.de/mexico.htm
bringing a week's worth with her on vacation shouldn't be a problem.

 

[zippermike]

Forgive me here if this offends anyone, but I must say something. Being on methadone is not "sober", and I really wish people would stop referring to it as such. Methadone is the worst drug man has ever invented. I battled an addiction to it for many, many years before finally getting clean. I've been completely sober now for just under two years. I can tell you from experience that there is a far cry from "Methadone Sober" and actual sober life. In the time since I've quit my life has completely changed. Everything about who I was and what I hated is gone. The liquid handcuffs(a PERFECT description btw) took around 6 months after my last does to finally leave me truly free, but I would go through it all over and over again, as this past year has been the best I've had in a decade.

As for the OP, get help. Real honest help. Methadone is not the answer. I'm not gonna say religion, doctors, or anything specific, as I believe each person needs to find their own way to finally conquer their demons. I will say this, if you truly want to be free, you will. Until then, welcome to hell.

 

[Azure Cloud]

If you can get some clean screens in, assuming you have time, you may yet qualify for an exemption. You need a serious talk with you consular at the clinic to see if its not too late to jump thru those hoops.

Off topic, but though "methadone sober" is not "sober sober" it is a chance to start practicing the skills required for sobriety. It beats the hell out of scoring on the streets. I don't think this is the place for that debate. -but I'm just a greenlighter so what do I know?

 

[sekio]

A gram of methadone would not kill 50 people; there's no need to spread misinformation like that.

A non-opioid user who is not tolerant to it would have pretty serious concerns if they took 20mg of methadone. At the very least it would be a messy situation.

I was under the impression you have to be a fairly long-term client of a 'done clinic before you get any take homes, at least at most clinics..

 

[Timland]

Can't go wrong bringing bulk amounts of Loperamide with you. Unless you are flying to a country where Loperamide is a controlled substance, ie the United Arab Emirates [where last I checked even Diphenhydramine is controlled]. But IME, loperamide will drastically reduce the effectiveness of CNS-heavy opioids for a time after switching back.

When I was into poppy pod tea and had to go on vacation, I brought 800mg of Loperamide with me. It held me psychologically and physically the entire week, and had 400mg and change leftover.

Also bring some Miralax and take it 2-4 hours after taking Lope.

You will not be "sober" however while on Lope.

But it beats WDing

Take time before you leave for vacation to find the effective dose of Loperamide that will hold you like your methadone dose does... and dont exceed that dose if you are concerned with not relapsing from the program etc. Find the minimum dose to keep you "held" no more and no less than where your mdone holds you, and stick to it. Loperamide has LONG legs like Methadone, so try to avoid dosing it more than once every 2-3 days.

 

[Kinlaven]

Seems to me that if you can switch to a different drug, say suboxone, that might be the thing to do. Hell, I was at 110 daily on methadone and was falling to sleep WHILE CHEWING FOOD! I had to back down to around 80. Actually when coming to the clinic I was shooting 1000mg daily of morphine. When I got to 50mg methadone I was cool. I only went higher because I could and my fucking addictive nature which we all have, right?

I really don't have any good advice. I came here looking for threads on Ice/Meth, shooting and such. I wanted to get my first post out..

 

[fizzymk]

Seems to me that if you can switch to a different drug, say suboxone, that might be the thing to do. Hell, I was at 110 daily on methadone and was falling to sleep WHILE CHEWING FOOD! I had to back down to around 80. Actually when coming to the clinic I was shooting 1000mg daily of morphine. When I got to 50mg methadone I was cool. I only went higher because I could and my fucking addictive nature which we all have, right?

I really don't have any good advice. I came here looking for threads on Ice/Meth, shooting and such. I wanted to get my first post out..

So, you made the jump to meth/speed coming from opiates? Ive never heard of anyone doing that. did you just get burnt out on opiates or..?

I did alot of speed stuff back when I was in my early 20s, going to clubs, parties and shit, about 12 years ago, I got on opiates and now my DOCs are H and methadone, I cant stand any speed now, dont like that amped up feeling anymore plus, I like to sleep every night! LOL

 

[ztalbott]

Just FYI since there seem to be folks who are against methadone treatment and/or are perpetuating the myth without basis in the half century of medical research, data & facts surrounding the medical treatment of opiate addiction with FDA-approved and efficacious medications like methadone and buprenorphine that you're "not clean" if you take a medicine, etc....

two ow really good places for methadone and buprenorphine patients to go where they'll get support and credible info rooted in the evidence base....

NAMA Recovery's "We Speak Methadone (and buprenorphine)" Forums: http://www.methadone.org/wespeakmethadone

and

the Methadone & Buprenorphine Discussion Group on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/MethadoneTreatment

?

 

[sekio]

FYI: I am absolutely 110% for anything that will let people lead a stable life. Methadone, buprenorphine, even stuff like extended release hydromorphone, heroin, environmental enrichment, stress relievers, and also doctor assisted long-term detoxes and tapers.

you're "not clean" if you take a medicine

Someone taking opioids for opioid addiction is not "clean". That means very little though, it's just a meaningless label. The real marker is how happy they are with their situation in life. If you're on 110mg of methadone a day and you can live a mostly happy life, the treatment is working well. Unless you totally taper off the narcotics you're still metaphorically chained to the clinic though, 'done and Suboxone are absolutely not a total cure for opioid addiction. It's like chronic antiretroviral therapy for HIV.

Methadone and bupe can indeed lead to people stopping heroin or other opioids. But you can't hide the fact that it's a potent agonist of the mu opioid receptor. If you want to bend definitions, then state sponsored heroin maintenance can also lead to people being "clean" from street drugs, living a stable happy life, etc. If your opioid receptors are activated constantly though... you're not actually helping the root cause of the problem, you're merely feeding the monkey on your back a steady stream of bananas to shut him up.

Functioning alcoholics who are at their happy blood alcohol content are not "sober", even if they feel that way. The drug will still have interactions in the body like it normally would - other things could inhibit its metabolism, it will continue to induce or block certain liver enzymes, and the like.

 

[Canis aureus]

^^Yes, but all depends on that how you use the word or concept "clean"... you could very well be clean of -- or from -- all illicit drugs, if you are on methadone or bupre. And in that sense you are clean, very clean sir. It is not bad thing if your opioid receptors are saturated, its bad thing, if you have to do crimes to support your local criminal gang that sells impure heroin.


Well, you understand the word "clean" differently. I know... But it all comes to that understanding, and what is our conception. Like you said yourself, the real marker is still something else. It's happy and productive life and living.

But it was very good that ztalbot chimed into this thread, because he gave us facts and references, he certainly did not blame the girl or told her to get clean...

 

[ztalbott]

FYI: I am absolutely 110% for anything that will let people lead a stable life. Methadone, buprenorphine, even stuff like extended release hydromorphone, heroin, environmental enrichment, stress relievers, and also doctor assisted long-term detoxes and tapers.



Someone taking opioids for opioid addiction is not "clean". That means very little though, it's just a meaningless label. The real marker is how happy they are with their situation in life. If you're on 110mg of methadone a day and you can live a mostly happy life, the treatment is working well. Unless you totally taper off the narcotics you're still metaphorically chained to the clinic though, 'done and Suboxone are absolutely not a total cure for opioid addiction. It's like chronic antiretroviral therapy for HIV.

Methadone and bupe can indeed lead to people stopping heroin or other opioids. But you can't hide the fact that it's a potent agonist of the mu opioid receptor. If you want to bend definitions, then state sponsored heroin maintenance can also lead to people being "clean" from street drugs, living a stable happy life, etc. If your opioid receptors are activated constantly though... you're not actually helping the root cause of the problem, you're merely feeding the monkey on your back a steady stream of bananas to shut him up.

Functioning alcoholics who are at their happy blood alcohol content are not "sober", even if they feel that way. The drug will still have interactions in the body like it normally would - other things could inhibit its metabolism, it will continue to induce or block certain liver enzymes, and the like.

The fact it's a "potent agonist of the mu opioid receptor" isn't relevant in methadone or buprenorphine maintained patients (though buprenorphine is not an agonist, it's a partial agonist)... Study after study show us, as a matter of scientific fact, that maintained patients experience no sedation or euphoria. Our brains produce natural opioids, endorphins, and many people who have suffered from long-term addiction have damaged the endogenous opioid-ligand system in the brain and can no longer produce natural endorphins --- which are necessary for a normally functioning, quality life. Endorphin deficiency can lead to depression, hypersensitivity to pain & a variety of other things. In many patients methadone and buprenorphine serve as an "endorphin replacement therapy" - a synthetic endorphin allowing their brains to function normally.

I would encourage everyone to look to science, research and FACTS and consult sources like the National Institute on Drug Abuse, National Institutes of Health, Institute of Medicine, U.S. Dept. of Health and Human Services, World Health Organization, American Association for the Treatment of Opioid Dependence in lieu of a forum's thread when it comes to the medical treatment of opioid dependence with FDA-approved medications like methadone or buprenorphine.

And the word "clean" has absolutely NO clinical definition whatsoever and is leftover from the 12 step cult mentality. The last time I checked what makes someone clean is when they take a shower!

zt

 

[fizzymk]

The fact it's a "potent agonist of the mu opioid receptor" isn't relevant in methadone or buprenorphine maintained patients (though buprenorphine is not an agonist, it's a partial agonist)... Study after study show us, as a matter of scientific fact, that maintained patients experience no sedation or euphoria. Our brains produce natural opioids, endorphins, and many people who have suffered from long-term addiction have damaged the endogenous opioid-ligand system in the brain and can no longer produce natural endorphins --- which are necessary for a normally functioning, quality life. Endorphin deficiency can lead to depression, hypersensitivity to pain & a variety of other things. In many patients methadone and buprenorphine serve as an "endorphin replacement therapy" - a synthetic endorphin allowing their brains to function normally.

I would encourage everyone to look to science, research and FACTS and consult sources like the National Institute on Drug Abuse, National Institutes of Health, Institute of Medicine, U.S. Dept. of Health and Human Services, World Health Organization, American Association for the Treatment of Opioid Dependence in lieu of a forum's thread when it comes to the medical treatment of opioid dependence with FDA-approved medications like methadone or buprenorphine.

And the word "clean" has absolutely NO clinical definition whatsoever and is leftover from the 12 step cult mentality. The last time I checked what makes someone clean is when they take a shower!

zt

How long in your opinion does it take using opiates to completely fuck up your brains natural endorphin producers, so that even if you quit all opiate drugs, you will NEVER get back to feeling good again?

This shit really scares me to think that using shit long enough, and it will fuck up your brain permanently...it would be w/d that never ends, and your dope sick until you die from old age..DAMN, I dont want to live like that!

 

[Azure Cloud]

The last time I checked what makes someone clean is when they take a shower!

zt

This is awesome! Plus the OP is only looking for advice, not a lecture.

As to the question of permanent damage to the natural endorphin system, I don't think there is a universal or even general rule other than the longer you use, the more you gotta want it to get off it and on with it. I used heavily for fifteen years but I can still find happiness when I don't try too hard.

 

[SpunkySkunk347]

A non-opioid user who is not tolerant to it would have pretty serious concerns if they took 20mg of methadone. At the very least it would be a messy situation.

Yes, I accidentally took a 30mg dose years ago thinking they were vicodin. Despite a 45mg+ hydrocodone tolerance, the overwhelming body load had me debating whether or not I should go to a hospital. I spent the next 6 hours repeatedly checking my rate of breathing. I think I was being overly cautious; a dose higher than 80mg would be reasonable cause for alarm.
Anyways, a gram of methadone would not kill 50 people; maybe ten to fifteen 80 pound girls, but not 50 grown men.

But, its better to always think that a lethal dose is lower than it actually is rather than estimating it high and having that cost you your life.