What not to expect from GABAPENTIN

[jaspersilence]

If you are taking Gabapentin for WDs or recreational...I must stress this...Do not expect to feel the same taking Gaba 2 days in a row...You must separate high doses by days to feel any effect.

 

[Toz]

Gabapentin is only usefull for NMDA antagonist withdrawal in my oppinion. For me that causes severe burning pain / cramps which gabapentin/pregabalin deals with. Otherwise these drugs are not worthy withdrawal aids when benzos are available and better tolerated.

Separating the doses by days to get effect though seems a bit exaggerated, maybe if you are looking to get high but if you are only looking for relief from withdrawals they will help for about a week or two before they turn into the worst useless addiction on the planet. I often get high in the morning from taking these daily, to be honest I just want to get rid of it but it doesn't seem to go away.

 

[neversickanymore]

I think its one of the best withdrawal medications for opiates out there.. in fact I would put it tops on the list. I guess I'm not sure why you feal this way.. I'm under the impression that the GABA system has a VERY slow tolerance increase? The typical levels I have seen be really beneficial for opiate withdrawals are 600-900 dosed three times a day.. but it recommended that people ramp up to this dose.. also this is the recomandation of a non medical individual though it is based off The Tarascon Pocket Pharmacopoeia (a book I HIGHLY recomand for ALL precription drug users) which states " nreopahthic pain 300 mg PO tid, max 3600 mg pd in 3 to 4 divided doses. Restless legs syndrom start 300 mg PO at bed time. maxx 3600 mg/pd divided tid." But as i said the best results I have seen is when people begin to titrate up a few days before kicking and reach a comfortable level which seems to occur for allot of people which has a range beginning at around 600 mg a day twice a day and continuing up to around 800 mgs a day three times a day.

 

[《Plasticity》]

^ Gabapentin acually doesn't even work on gaba, it's activity isn't fully understood but it's believed to work on voltage gated calcium channels.

Quote taken from wikipedia:

Some of its activity may involve interaction with voltage-gated calcium channels. Gabapentin binds to the α2δ subunit

I have to agree though that for some reason gabapentin is the best of the best for opiate withdrawal IME, so much so that I think it's important to figure out exactly how gabapentin works and that this may be beneficial info in understanding the nature of opiate addiction. It litterally takes away 80-90% of my kratom withdrawals, and not just by masking the symptoms. The benefits stay even after tolerance to the "recreational" effects vanish. It's amazing stuff and I always keep it around. As for recreational effects that lasts a day, from then on your gonna need a week or two break.

 

[neversickanymore]

Gabapentin (Neurontin) is a pharmaceutical drug, specifically a GABA analog.

I think it basically GABA?

>source<

 

[《Plasticity》]

it's a gaba analogue that doesn't mean it works on GABA. Iirc orally active GABA is Phenibut, they just add a phenyl ring to get GABA to cross the BBB. Like I said Gabapentin's activity isn't fully understood but it is definately believed to work on calcium channels, I would provide links but I'm lazy...I'll let you do the work . It's effects feel nothing like a gaba-ergic IMO so I'm not surprised it doesn't work on gaba, same with lyrica. High doses of gabapentin with no tolerance kinda feel like mildly psychedelic opiate with slight dissociative traits for me, a very unique high though I don't find gabapentin too recreational.

edit: Okay I guess I've got nothing better to do, besides, when you make claims ya gotta back em up right? Admittedly though this info wasn't at all hard to find lol. Despite all this gabapentin's MOA is poorly understood and somewhat undetermined, both gabapentin and pregabalin are mysterious drugs... they work wonders for opi withdrawal though, shockingly well.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...6476&q=gabapentin+calcium+channel&v=133247963 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/11786502/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1573104/
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...6476&q=gabapentin+calcium+channel&v=133247963

 

[dwamn]

gabapentin helps my wds and puts me in a better mood

 

[BadMonkey]

I'm not a fan of Gaba (Neurontin) but my no-fail WD savior is Pregaba (Lyrica) the higher the dose, the better you feel. You will sleep without restless legs, you can function daily (a little wobbly but hey) They work FANTASTIC. In fact, I killed half of my Xanax script trying to sleep through the first 3 days of WD until I could fill my Lyrica. Now, I am A-OK. Whew!

 

[neversickanymore]

it's a gaba analogue that doesn't mean it works on GABA. Iirc orally active GABA is Phenibut, they just add a phenyl ring to get GABA to cross the BBB. Like I said Gabapentin's activity isn't fully understood but it is definitely believed to work on calcium channels,

Thanks for pointing this out and everything I looked into confirms what you are saying. Since we do not know how it works and since GABA doesn't pass through the blood brain barrier so we dont know what direct effects increasing its levels directly have then how do we know that the the analogs aren't similar enough to be somewhat interchangeable with the GABA and that the idea that they cause an increase of GABA through a calcium channel interaction. Not doubting I just wonder how we know this as this is getting into areas I haven't yet studied and am looking for an explanation rather than trying to argue.

Have anyone taken both phenbute and either lyrica and gabapentin and if so how do their effects differ?

 

[《Plasticity》]

Have anyone taken both phenbute and either lyrica and gabapentin and if so how do their effects differ?

I've taken Phenibut, Lyrica, Gabapentin, and Baclofen (which has the same MOA as Phenibut, just more potent). Baclofen and phenibut feel nothing like gabapentin or lyrica. Both Baclofen and Phenibut are confirmed GABA-B agonists and feel very much like your standard gaba-ergic, effects are kinda like a super mild form of GHB (which is also a GABA-B agonist) though not nearly as recreational. Gabapentin and lyrica on the other hand don't feel like gaba-ergics at all. I've actually been on high doses of gabapentin for the past three days for kratom withdrawal and it works wonders, when taken with Baclofen I don't even feel like I'm in withdrawal.

For me the effects of gabapentin are very strange, I even get mild visual distortions, mainly CEV's but the actual effects are like no other drug I've taken. Now the effects are super mild as tolerance has built but the first day I took it it felt like a super mild opiate that doesn't have that warmth, but also feels like a mild psychedelic that has effects on thoughts though mainly positive, if the effects were sustainable I would imagine it would make a great anti-depressant however it's not nearly as anxiolytic as other bonafide GABA-ergics... I personally don't feel it works on GABA at all, even through indirect means but I could be wrong.

Thanks for pointing this out and everything I looked into confirms what you are saying. Since we do not know how it works and since GABA doesn't pass through the blood brain barrier so we dont know what direct effects increasing its levels directly have then how do we know that the the analogs aren't similar enough to be somewhat interchangeable with the GABA and that the idea that they cause an increase of GABA through a calcium channel interaction. Not doubting I just wonder how we know this as this is getting into areas I haven't yet studied and am looking for an explanation rather than trying to argue.

Like you I'm not well versed in Gabapentins pharmacology but this article explains in depth how it works (or at least how it's believed to work). It appears after skimming through the article Gabapentins MOA is a mix of fact and hypothesis derived from what IS known. If your truely interested in Gabapentins MOA I reccomend actually reading the article, it's very informative.

http://m.pnas.org/content/105/9/3628.full

Quotes taken from above article:

The mechanism of action of the antiepileptic and antinociceptive drugs of the gabapentinoid family has remained poorly understood. Gabapentin (GBP) binds to an exofacial epitope of the α 2 δ-1 and α 2 δ-2 auxiliary subunits of voltage-gated calcium channels, but acute inhibition of calcium currents by GBP is either very minor or absent. We formulated the hypothesis that GBP impairs the ability of α 2 δ subunits to enhance voltage-gated Ca 2+ channel plasma membrane density by means of an effect on trafficking.

Gabapentin (GBP) itself was originally developed as an analog of γ-amino-butyric acid (GABA), but is now believed to have no effect on GABA receptors or transporters (for review see ref. 6 ). The first key to understanding the mechanism of action of GBP came from purification of the GBP-binding protein from porcine brain ( 7 ), which was identified as the α 2 δ-1 auxiliary subunit of VGCCs. It is now known that GBP binds to an exofacial epitope present in both the α 2 δ-1 and α 2 δ-2 subunits

 

[neversickanymore]

Thanks I tried but do not have the knowledge at this point to comprehend allot of it. I will return to it after get a much better working knowledge of more than just a few relevant topics. I glad you pointed out to me that that even though its a analog it does not work like the original, as I was under a completely wrong assumption.



What is your, or anyone with first hand experience opinion as to which works better for opiate withdrawal, the lyrica or the gabapentin.. or are they pretty similar?. I have seen a few respected members and staff say the neurontin is the better of the two. also how would you rank the phenibut with the other two for withdrawal.

 

[《Plasticity》]

I'm surprised people find gabapentin better for withdrawal, IME pregabalin is far better. It's stronger, tolerance doesn't build as fast, and it's just overall a more sustainable and effective remedy...though that's not to say gabapentin isn't one of the best remedies out there IMO. The thing is pregabalin is hard to get, your doctor would have to get approval to prescribe pregab if your in the US. Gabapentin on the other hand you can simply order it online, it's not scheduled here...idk about other countries though. In the end if I can get a hold of pregab It would be preferable but since it's so hard to come by I have no qualms settling with gabapentin. Think of pregab as gabapentins older brother.

Phenibut is okay for withdrawal but not nearly as effective as the other two, I consider gabapentin/pregab better than benzos and phenibut is probably the med I would rate below benzos. Baclofen is to phenibut as pregab is to lyrica. They both work very similarly (phenibut and baclofen), if not the same but Baclofen and pregab are the stronger of the two. Baclofen alone is almost as good as benzos though it works in a subtle way. You won't feel outright high, you'll just notice relief of withdrawal and it lasts a while...very functional however too much baclofen or phenibut is extremely unpleasant, think vertigo, nausea, dizziness, and an overall unpleasant feeling that lasts all day 8(

Edit: Okay so I took 2,400mgs of gabapentin today (last day I'm gonna use it, my withdrawal is basically over)...anyways I just turned off all the lights so I can get ready for bed and I'm litterally hallucinating lol. This stuff definately works in a strange way, the hallucinations are reminiscant of the static hallucinations I get when I take too much monoamine releasers like MDMA or amphetamine, not saying it works in a similar way to amphetamine or anything....it's just really strange stuff.