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Reducing GHB neurotoxicity due to oxidative stress

Beings

Beings

Bluelighter
Joined
Dec 13, 2005
Messages
245
Hi guys,

GHB was kind of like a wonder drug till about 2008 when all these reports about G neurotoxicity started coming out. Some of the toxicity appears to be from over activation of receptors (I think GABA?) and also from oxidative stress. Do not think overactivation can be solved without taking some sort of antagonists, but for oxidative stress wouldn't potent antioxidants help? I remember vit.C + r-ALA always being recommended for MDMA neurotixicity. Would it also help with GHB neurotoxicity? Is something else better suited?

some sources:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17197055
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19288974
 
This is more in the Ebola? And Sekio realm, I feel...

OD---->N&PD
 
well has anyone that has taken ghb for long periods noticed any problems with their thinking or otherwise?i think the problem is finding people that have long term experience with it..
 
Take a look at the "Amphetamine Neurotoxicity and Tolerance Reduction/Prevention" threads, there is lots of talk about oxidative stress.
Here is the most recent page
 
Belfort-yes.

Severe working memory impairment and impairment of learning ability.
To the extent that I could have two webpages up in a browser and be unable to remember near the entirety of one as soon as the other one is opened.

Pramiracetam has been an absolute godsend for me since.
I heavily abused GHB and GBL both, a few years ago, used to make the G in 1-2kg batches and like many other unfortunates, dosed round the clock. Coming off that cold turkey was not pleasant. Eventually went to the docs, the GP I saw did not want to help, until I actually seized in her office right in front of her.
 
^^damn so has pramiracetam take the place of Ghb in terms of a good relaxant or does it help the cognitive problems associated with ghb use?
 
I would accept any neurotoxicity for GHB. It's one of those godly drugs.

I have only had a handful of experiences with it.

Just my 2c
 
isn't it glutamate induced neurotoxicity which is mediated by gaba at high doses. so low doses are worse for your brain than high doses. also withdrawl is neurotoxic like alcohol withdrawal if not properly managed= seizures all over the shop
 
Captain.Heroin said:
I would accept any neurotoxicity for GHB. It's one of those godly drugs.

I have only had a handful of experiences with it.

Just my 2c
Click to expand...

yes i agree, Ghb is definitely my favorite drug..it has several great effects that no other drug has..
 
belfort said:
yes i agree, Ghb is definitely my favorite drug..it has several great effects that no other drug has..
Click to expand...

I see someone has tried sex on G :p

I think majority of users don't do G round the clock, but it is a weekend party drug. Would be nice to know what kind of neurotixic effects come from doing for 4-8 hours straight, twice a week (Friday night, Saturday night of course).
 
sex, socializing, sports, nature are all enhanced by ghb..the only area id say is negatively affected by ghb is reading comprehension or ability to learn as another guy pointed out..i would not want to take tests while on ghb..for a good time though, ghb is a sure bet without the jitters(stims) or sloppiness(alcohol)..
 
I can't imagine GHB is that grossly neurotoxic. It's prescribed for narcolepsy over fairly long periods of time, isn't it?

Lots of things can be toxic to rats but not humans... DXM/ketamine is one example. Olney's lesions don't occur in humans but they do in monkeys and rats.
 
sekio said:
I can't imagine GHB is that grossly neurotoxic. It's prescribed for narcolepsy over fairly long periods of time, isn't it?

Lots of things can be toxic to rats but not humans... DXM/ketamine is one example. Olney's lesions don't occur in humans but they do in monkeys and rats.
Click to expand...

Do you think there's potential for hypoxic neurotoxicity in high doses? (I really don't know)
 
How would it cause hypoxia? AFAICT it doesn't really depress breathing like opioids do, and even then... you need to have some serious O2 deprivation before you see trouble.

The mechanisms I've heard for the purported neurotoxic effects of GHB are its activity at the stimulating GHB receptor and maybe GABA-B hypersensitivity in withdrawal. Selective GHB agonists do cause convulsions in animal models.
 
sekio said:
How would it cause hypoxia? AFAICT it doesn't really depress breathing like opioids do, and even then... you need to have some serious O2 deprivation before you see trouble.

The mechanisms I've heard for the purported neurotoxic effects of GHB are its activity at the stimulating GHB receptor and maybe GABA-B hypersensitivity in withdrawal. Selective GHB agonists do cause convulsions in animal models.
Click to expand...

All I know is that respiratory depression is common in GHB overdose situations (see: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15516299)

At an appropriate dose it might not cause respiratory depression at all, I was just reasoning by analogy to the opioids and the respiratory depression that occurs with overdose of either.
 
endotropic said:
All I know is that respiratory depression is common in GHB overdose situations (see: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15516299)

At an appropriate dose it might not cause respiratory depression at all, I was just reasoning by analogy to the opioids and the respiratory depression that occurs with overdose of either.
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You are correct that high doses cause respiratory depression, especially to new users, but if you take it recreationally on the weekends you build up tolerance and know your limits fairly well. After years of using both G and alcohol I would say me and my friends have had significantly more bad nights after drinking too much booze, vs having an additional cap/vial too soon.

Heck the day after, I would take G hangover (if there is such a thing, never had one) over a booze hangover any day. G might be as bad for you as benzos if you consume it 24/7 but recreationally I cannot imagine it being worse than booze, some of these studies make you feel like it is though. We all take risks with our lifestyle, but I would rather delay parkinsons till later than sooner hence this thread ;p
 
^^G hangover, ive heard people talk about them but ive never had one and i consider myself to be quite experienced with this drug lol..alcohol hangovers are awful and the older u get the worse they are..ive also noticed that once u start hitting G or phenibut often that alcohol loses all of its euphoric ability...
 
Sorry for rolling this thread up again, but what about CBD? It passes the BBB effectively, has nearly no psychoactive effects or even side effects, works as an antioxidant and prevents glutamateric neurotoxicity. Should cover the whole spectrum of possible neurotoxic mechanisms. Any ideas?
 
I'm rusty on the subject of CBD but I think some of the thinking was that its hard to get it into the CNS in appreciable amounts, my knee jerk reaction is that there is a bit of snake oil stuff going on concerning CBD
 
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