Beta-blocker safety questions.

[Acidroom]

Hello Bluelighters!
#1 It has been discussed a bit that phens + beta blockers are not a good a idea, while others say that phens have been combined to combat any body load. Can someone clear this up please.

#2 Would it be safe to take inderal in the morning and later on that night trip out on 10mg~ 2c-e?
Same question regarding DXM, Is it safe? Has anyone experiences with these combos / usage in a close time frame.

Thanks for all input. :D

 

[buildersoftime]

Shulgin mentions taking inderal before AL-LAD.

 

[Sumph]

Shulgin mentions taking inderal before AL-LAD.

Is this relevant? AL-LAD is not a phen and the OP seems to be asking about phens. Sorry OP i'm not able to help but just wanted to help clear this post up, correct me if i've missed something here, however.

 

[lovepsychadelics]

Not a good idea, look up stimulant overdose and drugs contraindicated for such medical emergencies. Beta blockers are not given to stimulant OD's. Psychedelic PEA's as well as some tryptamines share similar physiological effects to stimulants. In Shulgins time beta blockers were thought to be an effective treatment for stimulant toxicity. That has since been proven to be incorrect, benzo's are now front line treatment for OD's on drugs like MDPV. Usually lorazepam IV at 1mg per injection every 15 minutes until pulse and BP lower to a safe level.

 

[Acidroom]

I ask because I am prescribed inderal twice a day. Its annoying when I want to trip but I have inderal in my system..
Thanks for your replies, really appreciated. I can say safely Shrooms and LSD are safe with inderal, at least at 10 mg doses.

 

[Acidroom]

I have read statements that there are reports of people using beta blockers for the come down of amphetamines. There was one individual that said they took some inderal on the come down of DXM. Def seems unsafe though considering the interactions.
In regards to phens the danger seems primarily (imo) to be in highly elevated levels of the alpha adrenaline receptors combined with the beta blockade, creating a dangerous reaction, I remember reading something like this. Not sure about it..

Hopefully more reports with these combos will emerge in the future as I don't think its that dangerous (phens/typtamines) at lower dosages of both drugs. Ie. the scenario I proposed in my initial post, the beta blocker would have run its course while remaining in the body for a day or so which to my knowledge shouldn't pose a threat, compared to taking both at the same time.

 

[Thanatos]

I ask because I am prescribed inderal twice a day. Its annoying when I want to trip but I have inderal in my system..
Thanks for your replies, really appreciated. I can say safely Shrooms and LSD are safe with inderal, at least at 10 mg doses.

I'm prescribed 40mg propranolol 3xday, just skip your doses for 12 hours or so before you ingest your psychedelic of choice and you should be fine. I've been on this medication for a number of years and never had any negative cardiac effects that were directly related to taking a psychedelic with a active serum levels of propranolol.

 

[lalune]

^^ May I ask why skipping a dose helps?

 

[Thomas Davie]

Some info that may be appropriate to someone out there....

I take Labetalol HCl (a beta blocker), also known as Trandate, 300 mg twice a day. For over 12 years (and a Calcium channel blocker and smooth muscle relaxant) No, I don't use phens and probably never will; but I heartily abuse mushrooms and other tryptamines on a regular basis. I don't skip my meds, and in fact usually take them 2-3 hours before take mushrooms. I get an EKG once a year with zero abnormalities.

It's safe to say I've never taken psychs without beta blockers in my system and never more than 5 hours apart.

Tom

 

[Thanatos]

^^ May I ask why skipping a dose helps?

The propranolol and it's active metabolite have have combined mean half life of 11.5 hours, which can be extended by consuming food along with your dose. If you are worried and your hypertension/tachycardia isn't debelitating this is the most logical way to avoid a negative reaction.

 

[Solipsis]

FYI: something that you should never combine with beta-blockers is something that acts as an alpha blocker. Alpha and beta here refer to types of specialized adrenaline receptors. If you block one kind of those receptors the body can deal and homeostatic balances can be kept (apparently using the unaffected subtype), but when you block both apparently your blood pressure goes way low and you run into all sorts of issues.

Phenethylmines like 2C-B are apparently adrenergic agonists and so is LSD, but there are other smaller ergine derivatives (maybe LSA ('s) I am not sure) which can act as alpha-blockers. 2C-E has low affinities for alpha-adrenoceptors.
Haven't checked DXM but I wouldn't trust that one... complex pharmacology and not the best to combine generally.

So regarding safety tripping with beta-blockers not all psychedelics are created equally. Also it should be pointed out that we can offer some preliminary perspective but you cannot subsitute for proper medical advice. Unfortunately I don't see a GP dive into the pharmacology to give you educated advice, but instead they will probably strongly recommend you be careful right off the bat. Especially if you live somewhere with strict laws on the matter, those guys are probably not like libertarians who sophisticatedly advocate harm reduction rather than repression. I'm understanding but it is important you are clear that we are in no position to tell you any of this is safe, even if we look like we know what we're talking about. ;D

 

[lalune]

Thanks for explaining, both of you guys. I totally get what you are saying, I've spent a good amount reading the big and dandy threads to get a better understanding of beta blockers and psychedelics (shrooms specifically) in my case, I do not nor will take the certain psychedelics you mentioned but it's definitely good to know, since I do take metoprolol low dose.

 

[Thanatos]

Jut look up the alpha-1 binding affinity for the psychedelic in question and go from there. Some beta-blockers act as beta adrogenic antagonists and partial agonist at the same time.