The Benzodiazepine Thread Version 5

[drug_mentor]

Hey guys, the old thread hit 1000 posts, so here is the new one.

Obviously this thread is for the discussion of benzodiazepines and matters that relate to their use. The guidelines apply as they do to any other thread so lets keep it sensible, thanks!

The previous thread can be found here.

 

[opi8]

What's the lethal dose for the various benzos, just reading about some people's crazy pill popping in another thread and wondering how much it takes to kill you.

 

[drug_mentor]

I don't know off the top of my head, I seem to recall that the LD50 for most benzo's on their own is ridiculously high.

I found this on wikipedia "The oral LD50 (lethal dose in 50% of the population) of diazepam is 720 mg/kg in mice and 1240 mg/kg in rats." and according to a poster named kokaino in this Bluelight thread the LD50 for Lorazepam is 3178 mg/kg (rats), Diazepam LD50 = 1240 mg/kg (rats), Nitrazepam = 980 mg/kg (rats), alprazolam in rats is 2171 mg/kg, which is less toxic than temazepam at 833 mg/kg in rats. Since the figure for diazepam matches up with wiki there is a decent chance those are accurate, and in the thread I linked there are a number of other posters confirming the LD50 is really high, for alprazolam at least.

I am working at the moment but later I may see if I can dig up a better source for those numbers.

 

[mindseye888]

I'm keen to try some of the RC benzos for various situations. Either pyrazolam or diclazepam to keep my anxiety at bay and etizolam for comedown/sleep after stimulant binges. I have thoroughly read through a fair few various benzo threads and think I have the basic effects of these three RC's right.
Anyone with experience with these, which is better of the two diclazepam or pyrazolam for relieving anxiety?
Maybe I should just visit the local GP and get prescription benzos, I'm really worried about losing another job due to anxiety/stress, it really gets the better of me at times.

 

[Christ!]

Hrm Pyrazolam sounds interesting. Etizolam is pretty great for anxiety but I do find it a bit too sedating.

A script is a much better idea because it'll limit your usage. Can get addicted pretty quick if you've got tons of RC benzos and its so easy to get more. I've managed to stay non-habituated but I could see it happening so easily.

 

[mindseye888]

Thanks guys, will go visit the doctor and see what he says.
Yeah Captain Brewster, diclazepam floating around the UK RC shops, I have only noticed it recently so fairly new.

 

[Halif]

I agree with Christ! about the script being a good idea for a number of reasons; legal, limits use, known medications used.

However, I also agree with Captain B about pyrazolam being very good and underrated for its therapeutic value. The situation with benzos is weird. There are so many of them. Most of them have multiple actions - hypnotic, muscle relaxant, etc. - as well as anti-anxiety. It's these other effects that often add up to an enjoyable experience and what makes benzos addictive.

I find it ironic that out of the eight or nine benzos I've used enough to know all too well, it's an RC that is the most desirable anti-anxiety substance out there. It isn't recreational at all, and it doesn't seem to have any effect other than removing anxiety. It's actually quite effective at the right dose (the pills getting around that I have seen have only ever contained 0.5mg which is too low IMO - this isn't like alprazolam) and lacks the things that make other benzos tempting to overuse. If the main issue is anxiety, pyraz is worth a look.

Bottom line is that if you have anxiety, pyrazolam will remove it. If you don't have anxiety, you'll think you're taking placebo. Why isn't pyraz the benzo which is scripted for GAD? It only does what it's supposed to do. It has low abuse potential. I think Alprazolam is the worst thing to be scripted with repeats for general anxiety. This is my opinion, and I know that lots of people find it very helpful so no disrespect intended - everyone's different.

The thing is, for many people alprazolam is really strong, feels nice and intoxicating, and wears off quickly leaving rebound anxiety. It is very, very addictive and creates severe rebound anxiety if used regularly - even for a relatively short time. So, why is it scripted to be taken on a regular basis? What do they think will happen? Alprazolam addiction is widespread and not understood nearly enough by GPs who prescribe it, or some patients who take it. It is a serious drug which can bring about very difficult to cope with dependency.

Diazepam is good for anxiety but the half life of the secondary metabolites means that getting off it is hard. The subjective effect of diazepam is less than a quarter of the supposed half-life, IME. So after using it for a while, it's a long long road to get off.

Diclazepam isn't great, IMO. There's something strange about it. I find it heavy and it seems to blunt my emotions. It removes anxiety and everything else too. Not fun, or practical.

This is my subjective opinion, of course, but if you have a look at the pyraz megathread on Other Drugs you'll see there are actually a good number of people who LOVE pyrazolam because it does one thing only: removes anxiety. I have used it to manage anxiety in the past and found it comparatively easy to taper off from, because it doesn't have a host of extra effects and doesn't last too long.

Etizolam is better for a stim crash, but that's a deadly cycle to get into, and a different issue altogether from general anxiety disorder.

 

[opi8]

I'd love to try some pyrazolam, however I can't stand talking to doctors (due to my ever present anxiety) and the fact I always think I will be promptly shown the door if I show any kind of knowledge about certain drugs. Remember patients, the doctor is always right. I think they teach that in customer service 101.

 

[the_ketaman]

Im quite pissed. I just had a ton of benzos organised to come off the meth and try to make christmas a little more stress free but now the asshole is either nodding off and cant hear his phone or his missus has put a stop to it. Ive got 6 5mg vals at home and earlier today before the meth i had 2mg of xanax and it helped tremendously so my tolerance has gone down very fast but it annoys me when people do that. 30mg of val is one dose for me so i hope i figure something out. Ill be getting the gf juice out tomorrow n hopefully i can make it 2 doses :/

 

[mindseye888]

I'd love to try some pyrazolam, however I can't stand talking to doctors (due to my ever present anxiety) and the fact I always think I will be promptly shown the door if I show any kind of knowledge about certain drugs. Remember patients, the doctor is always right. I think they teach that in customer service 101.

I don't think pyrazolam is a prescription benzo, its only floating around the RC scene
at the moment. Maybe some Euro countries prescribe it.
The only time I've been prescribed benzos was years ago, I got the weakest valium, but where I live now I reckon its gonna be hard to get a script for benzos, the local GP actually has a sign stating they don't prescribe any medications of abuse/addiction at this practice.
Now I'm getting anxious about going to the Dr and trying to get help about my anxiety.
Until recently reading through the various benzo threads on BL, my small experience with valium had me under the assumption benzos were used only as a sleeping aid.

 

[Halif]

Now I'm getting anxious about going to the Dr and trying to get help about my anxiety.

There's irony for you.

I know how you feel. I got a dud psych who broadcast to the world my substance abuse issues after I told him AND wrote down for him the fact I didn't want it disclosed. Now I've moved to a new neighborhood and don't want to see a GP for anything because I'm scared they'll see some crap and instantly think I'm there to try and get a script for something.

You never know though. What drives certain doctors to prescribe this or that is dubious sometimes. They'll hand out some things before you've said anything (anti-depressants, and more frequently it seems anti-psychotics, also) and give you the evil eye if you mention others.

Pyrazolam is an RC and not prescribed anywhere as far as I know. Which is strange because, as I've stated, it seems like the most functional and least abusable anti-anxiety thing I've come across.

 

[opi8]

I don't think pyrazolam is a prescription benzo, its only floating around the RC scene at the moment. Maybe some Euro countries prescribe it.

Oh right, thanks for the info. I've never been into RC's. Maybe if there was a decent opiod RC I'd start to get interested but most reports (with the exception maybe of desmethyltramadol) have sounded very underwhelming for a needle user like myself. Plus the whole scene doesn't really sit well with me, I like the poppy plant and its long used derivatives.

The only time I've been prescribed benzos was years ago, I got the weakest valium, but where I live now I reckon its gonna be hard to get a script for benzos, the local GP actually has a sign stating they don't prescribe any medications of abuse/addiction at this practice.

I saw a similar sign at a doctors once. They were dealing with some pretty rough clientele so I could see why they had the sign so blatantly plastered all over the place, but I think it's wrong to deny patients of an entire medical clinic a useful medicine just because some people rock up unable to walk or talk (literally). It's kind of like forcing everyone in certain countries to walk through a naked body scanner or throwing out an entire truck load of apples because they found a bruise on one.

Now I'm getting anxious about going to the Dr and trying to get help about my anxiety.

Welcome to the world of a lot of people suffering with anxiety. I mean genuinely suffering to the point of rather being an alcoholic recluse with a heroin addiction just because it's simply too hard.

Shit, this was a pretty pessimistic post.

 

[-Raver-]

Hi all. I've been taking Valium now for about 18 months. It started as a script for Valium for anxiety related to an MRI I needed to have. As many of you are aware it's an easy drug to keep "liking" and taking.

My usage is probably only quite small. Some days I'll have none (maybe even 3 days without) then I might have 5-10 mg before bed to help sleep (I have an addiction to stilnox/imovane for sleep). I would be honest and say overall I have on average 7.5 mg or so of Valium a day (I fill a 50 x 5mg script a month).

I really want to break this addiction to Valium. I guess I could just "man up" and go cold turkey given that I'm really not taking that much in the whole grand scheme of things but I am seeking your help to get off this stuff.

Any suggestions gladly taken. Please help me.

Thank you.

 

[the_ketaman]

I cant answer any questions but i did take sometimes 10mg/20mg+ daily for at least six months and only experienced psychological wds and rebound anxiety. If i did have physical wds i didnt notice them. I even slept ok.

I still go on up to 2-3 week runs on alprazolam and i guess im just lucky. One huge thing that contributes I think is that i very rarely dose more than one time a day so due to alpraz being short acting i think ive avoided wd by a width of a pubic hair

 

[the_ketaman]

I'm keen to try some of the RC benzos for various situations. Either pyrazolam or diclazepam to keep my anxiety at bay and etizolam for comedown/sleep after stimulant binges. I have thoroughly read through a fair few various benzo threads and think I have the basic effects of these three RC's right.
Anyone with experience with these, which is better of the two diclazepam or pyrazolam for relieving anxiety?
Maybe I should just visit the local GP and get prescription benzos, I'm really worried about losing another job due to anxiety/stress, it really gets the better of me at times.

I tried Etizolam 2mg pellets and they were the best benzo ive had(im calling it s benzo)

I found it had the power and potency xanax has but it lasts as long as Diazepam and can be very euphoric. And you dont get any amnesia/blackouts. The one thing that would worry me about prescribed regular use(if it ever happened) or anyones use it is something to do with releasing or being a serotonin inhibitor? I know it can have debillitating wds basically SSRI & BENZO WD mixes. Now that sounds terrifying and l will be sure never to get a habit on Etiz. I can imagine its hard though coz as i said Etiz is wonderful but i only had 20 2mg. Been tempted to get more but i dont want to risk it.

 

[opi8]

Add an opiate to the SSRI and benzo withdrawals and it sounds like pure death just thinking about it. Not good.

 

[Halif]

Hi Raver

I guess I could just "man up" and go cold turkey given that I'm really not taking that much in the whole grand scheme of things

No, there's no 'manning up' when it comes to getting off benzos, there's only manning down... I mean, tapering down. Sorry.

WIth opiates, you can put yourself through hell going cold turkey and traumatise yourself and (mostly) come out clean (and probabaly suicidal) at the end of the week or whatever it takes.

That's not an option with benzos. You aren't taking a large amount of diazepam, as you say, but it's the length of time in which you've been taking it that matters, and 18 months is absolutely long enough to mean you need to taper off slowly.

Diazepam stays in your body for a long time; hence you can go a day or even three without getting a real taste of the withdrawals. DON'T go cold turkey with this, especially if you are scripted them and have the option of safely and slowly tapering off.

Tapering off long-acting benzos is hard because it's a very long and drawn out grind. But in the scheme of things, that is a million times better than what happens if you go cold turkey - you'll puy your body and mind into shock which could very likely manifest as horrible things which could damage you permanently.

I didn't mean to be a smart arse about manning up or down. Fuck that whole concept of 'sucking it up' or 'taking it on the chin'. Go slow and you'll make it off them and be yourself again eventually.

Do it right, do it once. be safe. You can be free again. Please let us know how it goes, as it's important for other people to know that it can be done - as well as HOW other people are doing it. You could be in inspiration to many people if you make it. A LOT OF PEOPLE are in the same boat....

 

[zzz101]

good info top post, Halif

I have stopped them fully for ~4 months cold turkey. Didn't notice much withdrawal effects other than by the end of it by depression was getting a lot better from being worse, which is good. I've realized it's not my brain but my lifestyle i need to change which can be done.

from a habit of; i used them once or twice a week for ~2.5 years. used about 100 valium, some xannies, klonopin- (those ones small amounts) etizolam(recently). From the start only vals and etiz work - ie; reduced anxiety, if taken high dose feel drunnk-type. It catches up on you. didn't realize i had a problem really.


so yeah in my experience stopping cold turkey wasn't that bad from a weekly user. but now benzos just give me mad depression but they can still reduce anxiety to a degree or big degree.


like today(Christmas) i have taken 0.8mg of etizolam because had to meet heaps of family, friends, different groups, etc. which worked well. didn't get nervous at all. but the benzo wasn't making me social i had to force myself to be happy and social, i did it went well. I drank ~5 beers, the etizolam really wants me to get high on something, pref weed. but could only smash beer but had family looking so lucky haha.

I'm careful not to take that shit again, i don't want that depression side-effect from them its awful. fuk tht shit. But i dno felt like posting.

Merry Xmas.
--zzz101

 

[Christ!]

like today(Christmas) i have taken 0.8mg of etizolam because had to meet heaps of family, friends, different groups, etc. which worked well. didn't get nervous at all. but the benzo wasn't making me social i had to force myself to be happy and social, i did it went well. I drank ~5 beers, the etizolam really wants me to get high on something, pref weed. but could only smash beer but had family looking so lucky haha.

I'm careful not to take that shit again, i don't want that depression side-effect from them its awful. fuk tht shit. But i dno felt like posting.

Merry Xmas.
--zzz101

Yeah exact same here. Etiz did the trick with anxiety but just wasn't myself in not feeling like talking much with family.

Etiz also has some funny effects if you take bi-daily or small dose daily, obviously builds up so you have a constant background level....that background level effect isn't that great IMO. Valium way better as a longer acting benzo. Etizolam short term effects are fun though.

 

[WarChild]

Hi Folks

I just had to post this - I have just quit Diazepam (for the third time). I was 10mg-15mg for about 18 months. I weaned off over a month. Getting from 10 to 5mg was easy, i went straight from 10 to 5 and waited a week. I then went from 5 to 2.5 over another week. Funnily it wasn't til that 2 week point at 2.5 that i started to get bad withdrawals. Stayed on 2.5 for a week, then went to 1.25mg for about 4 days and then went to (what i can only guess) was about half a milligram for a couple of days (i just chipped bits off tablets and ate them). The bad part of the withdrawal lasted about 5 days from that point. I suffered severe anxiety, restlessness, total absense of appetite, general disassociation as if i was on a small dose of acid, and low mood. After stopping the following month I continued to feel those symptoms but they gradually subsided and now about 5 weeks since last valium they are finally totally gone. Although my appetite hasn't come back and i've lost 10kg - as if my metabolism has gone through the roof due to being slowed down for so long.

I've come off valium a couple of times before but this was EASILY the hardest. I suspect that the more valium i do over the years the stronger the addiction is when it hits. This time I am going to be SO sparing with valium and only take it when ABSOLUTELY necassary, for legitimate anxiety.

The REALLY unpleasant tough part only lasted about 5-10 days at the bottom end of the tapering, and whilst being really shit it IS doable. The secret is just to TAPER SLOWLY! Remember the long half life means that it takes 4-5 days for a change of dose to catch up with you.

Also - for those who use Chamomile Tea to come off benzos - i used to swear by it, but after some research is seems that Chamomile Tea binds to benzo receptors!!! So using chamomile to calm yourself (which is surpisingly effective) just delays the withdrawal.

Anyway i wish you all luck. Since the withdrawal stopped over the last few weeks i have had MUCH better mood, not needed as much sleep, have dropped 10kgs weight, have been more alert in the morning, more stamina, better concentration span, and overall a better feeling of being!! It is REALLY worth coming off it. And as i said if you taper slowly enough then its unpleasant but not impossible.

All the best and i'd love to hear from others with similar stories.

WC