• H&R Moderators: VerbalTruist

An article I wrote on help with withdrawal, inspired by the Thomas Recipe

TurquoiseEyes

Greenlighter
Joined
Sep 23, 2013
Messages
20
Location
United States
I'm new here to Bluelight, so I hope that I'm posting this in the right place! :) I think that the famous Thomas recipe is a good start and a big help in withdrawal. I wrote the following article to expand on the topic some more and aid others. I sincerely hope that this will help anyone going through the pain of withdrawal. It should help anyone who is planning to detox or going through withdrawal (or post-withdrawal symptoms) presently. To be clear, I have no affiliation with any products that I suggest in the following article. I'm just relating what worked for me from personal experience. I've been through withdrawal from legally-prescribed opiates and benzos, but detoxing and PAWS is difficult no matter what source of chemicals (legal or illegal) started it all! ;)

http://lizturquoiseeyes.blogspot.com/2013/07/getting-over-addiction-in-new-ways.html
 
Hi turquoiseeyes I believe this thread will more suited in the sober living forum. I will be moving the thread now.
 
Hey T EYES.. =D welcome to Blue Light.. and thanks for submitting your article.. there is some stuff in here that i would never have thought of and Have found interesting... were you applying these ideas towards a specific addiction?
 
I personally had to cut back or eliminate legally-prescribed diazepam (Valium), Flexiril, Lyrica, Ambien and Tramadol for fibromyalgia. The side effects from the meds were getting worse than the fibromyalgia- fatigue, muscle weakness, depression, sleeping too much on some days or getting awful insomnia on others, memory loss, apathy...the list goes on. I enjoyed my medications, though, to a great degree- I'd always suffered from anxiety and depression (long before I even had fibromyalgia) and these meds deadened the emotions which caused those.

But to answer your question, the specific dependency or addiction that my article would mostly be written for is opiates (mine was synthetic, but the withdrawal from essentially identical to that from "true" opioids) and/or benzos. Both are very different drug classes, but still have many similarities at the end of the day when it comes to withdrawing. I am definitely not an expert and don't pretend to be one- I'm just speaking from personal experience in my article, plus from what I've heard about other people suffering through. I also know that the post-acute period can actually be even harder than the immediate detox period.

Getting off of these medications first required tapering down all of them over a few months. I never took my medications in doses higher than prescribed, but of course that doesn't prevent withdrawal from medications like that, even with tapering first. The Tramadol withdrawal was especially tough, physically and emotionally. Anyway, I found each of the things I wrote about through trial and error. While I do not smoke cigarettes or drink alcohol and never have, I imagine much of what I wrote would help with getting over those addictions, too.
 
<3<3<3<3<3.. fibromyalgia is one of my pet projects.. and i had it severely in conjunction with sarcoidosis. I am totally recovered and have some really interesting views and opinions on whats going on or start a thread and we can talk about what i feel is going on and what I did successfully to combat this awful thing as it is all related IMHO..
 
Last edited:
Hello. Sure, I'd love to hear about your recovery and views on Fibromyalgia. To be honest, some days I'm still in denial that I have it, even after six years of being diagnosed being behind me. Dumb, I know. I have good days and bad days with the syndrome. And, yes, the FATIGUE is the WORST! And the brain fog. Pain, I can deal with that. It's the weak, unmotivated, grumpy, depressed, mopey, stupid, unclear-in-the-brain feeling that just wrecks a life. Anyway, I'm not good at starting threads on anything, lol. But FMS is a fascinating subject! And the polypharmacy issues involved now are monumental and often under-discussed.
 
I have Delayed Sleep Phase issues. I hate to call that a disorder. I am basically an extreme night owl & have been since birth. I kept my mom up til 3 a.m. & then woke up around noon even as a newborn! That pattern REALLY hurt me in school- that system was designed for early birds! No matter when I go to bed, I can never naturally wake up early. Ambien, of course, masks the night owl problem BUT it still doesn't fix the fact that I will not awaken on my own early in the a.m. as society demands in most schools & many jobs. Sorry, a very long answer to your question! But actually until I had fibromyalgia I slept long & well with no other problems at all. The pain of fibro DID affect my sleep starting a few years ago, making it completely unrefreshing. That morning stiffness is wicked, too!
 
Exact same thing for me.. it is a real bitch and has caused me more problems in life than ANYTHING else.

How is your sleep hygiene at this point? do you have a sleep room that is kept to really high sleep hygiene standards?
 
Yes, it is so problematic, isn't it? I've been accused of being lazy, undisciplined, etc. over the years due to my body's natural clock. Or feeling guilty because I can't up early & get done what I'd like to- housework, exercise, all that. Have you found the same problem in your life?

My sleep hygiene's top-notch now. After cutting out meds & dealing with the insomnia, I realized I had some real changes to make in that area. Which is why I bring that topic up in my article. And, yeah, my bedroom is my sanctuary and I guard that more than ever. No TV, computer, telephone or stereo in the room. It's still hard for me to fall asleep at a "normal" hour or wake up early. But I accept that. Pain at night is still a problem. But mineral supplements at night, quinine, keeping well-hydrated, it all helps somewhat.
 
Last edited:
Yes, it is so problematic, isn't it? I've been accused of being lazy, undisciplined, etc. over the years due to my body's natural clock. Or feeling guilty because I can't up early & get done what I'd like to- housework, exercise, all that. Have you found the same problem in your life?
yes absolutely.. I just went to yet another sleep dr and they are finally starting to have the same opinions we have.. sorry its not going to change so change your life to fit your sleep period I what i was told.. "he said that he had just had a conversation with another long time sleep dr and asked him in his thirty five years had he ever been able to change someones circadian rhythm.. the other dr replied maybe twice. what i love is all the morning go getters think they are so damn special.. funny thing is that they look like we do in the morning at eight at night cant d=function and look like zombies.. but they are the "normal ones." yeah I would consider truing to form a life that fits in with your natural sleep rhythm.

As far as using something to facilitate sleep.. I have now come to the conclusion that its a waste of time as I wake up feeling better and better rested if I get less sleep without a med than i do with allot of sleep and meds. So all I take is 1-3 mg melatonin 20 minutes before bed and there are many times I dont do this.. if I am really getting behind in rem I will sometimes where a nicotine patch to bed to facilitate really lucid dreaming.. did you ever notice how happy you get when you wake up covered in a little sweat from dreaming so hard? so I will try and facilitate this occasionally.. That and its fun to lucid dream.


So here is what i did rid myself of fibro.. it took about a year but i didn't add everything at once.

I asked to be put on lamictal in conjunction with an instant release methylphenidate. I removed my self and detoxed off everything else including benzos and methadone. I would eat one short acting methylphenidate in the morning when the alarm went off and then push the snooze till i woke up from the stimulant. I would then break the other ir dose into two pieces and use it after the first wore off to combat the fatigue. I tried to awake within and hour of the same time and get to sleep in a two hour window. I made exercise part of my life and spend as much time as i could in the sun. And i know the fatigue gets really really bad.. I also had my vitamin d checked and it was found to be low even though I was taking the max dose everyday so i talked with a dr and increased it further. I made the adjustments to my sleep hygiene that you have already done. I started to get significantly better with in three weeks of the lamictal and vitamin d were added to the methylphenidate. The fatigue and pain got slowly better for around a year and now have nothing left of either.

I would consider seeing an endocrinologist and having some sorta hormone check. I would also ask for a vitamin d test.

How long have you been on the valium.. since before of after the fibro.. ever been diagnosed with Bi polar two or with depressions that was really resistant to treatment.. ever experience mania or a real unpleasant feeling when taking a ssri or ecstasy?

Again anything you want to share as we seem to have more than a few similarities.
 
Yes, it's amazing what we get done at night compared to so-called normal people! Night is when I feel best physically & mentally.

I wasn't on Valium that long (2 years maybe?) & actually had no withdrawal from it other than some brief periods of depersonalization. I credit my good fortune to never abusing, living a healthy lifestyle (food, vitamin/mineral supplements, heavy water drinker,non-smoker, no alcohol) & good genes. Depersonalization is no joke- but it passed. And Valium- as were all meds- were long after fibro diagnosis. Before fibro, strongest thing I ever took was Excedrin.

Yes, I have thyroid issues big-time. And weight has always been an issue thanks to that, despite lots of exercise & healthy nutrition. Unfortunately I have no health insurance & even if I did, endocrinologists here have INSANE waiting lists. Very frustrating.

Melatonin didn't work for me, but I have one of those tough German constitutions that just sort of laughs at supplements. Tried the high-dose vitamin D but it made me have abdominal pain something awful. I just take a multi-vitamin in the morning & a multi-mineral @ night- seems okay. Unfortunately one of my fibro symptoms-which for some reason is worse than ever lately-is nausea. So taking any pills right now is just awful. The stomach issues of fibro are a bitch, and Tramadol + Lyrica stopped all nausea & other tummyaches. But Lyrica made me lazy & fat as a cow. Tramadol...interesting stuff. Some people hate it, some love it.

I will have to look into Lamictal & methylphenidate- I know nothing about them. Thanks for letting me know what works for you & the time period it took. I'm enjoying our exchange. :)
 
Oh, Lord, have I had x-rays! I'm surprised I don't glow in the dark by now. Barium swallow, full-body CT scans (twice), MRIs...back when I had insurance, that is. I spent a fortune trying to figure out what was wrong before fibro diagnosis (and even after, because my pain & fatigue were so bad I didn't think that was"all" I could have wrong with me).

I also forgot to mention I walk outdoors every day for the sunshine & exercise. It's painful to walk sometimes, but it's vital.
 
Nothing like sarcoidosis showed up? it doesn't always present in the lungs but that is the most common.. ever had your eyes checked (not for vision) and it doesn't show up on really any blood teats? ever tried steroids methylprednisolone, prednisone ? do you have pain in any places that aren't so common for fibro?

do your shins hurt? what was the positive effect of the vitamin d?

LOL sorry for all the questions.
 
Last edited:
nope, nothing showed up at all on any tests, though I have very bad knees (arthritis, meniscus tear, one bad injury).

I didn't notice anything positive from Vit. D supplement. Walking in the sun works a little for mood (though that could be endorphins).

And, yes, I have shin/calf/ankle pain- always have. I have huge, muscular calves naturally. Not pretty on a woman! Once when I got a massage (pre fibro days), I was told I had very loose joints & my calves were in unbelieveable knots.

I was incredibly flexible when younger, and I've read having a body like that is linked to fibro in an unknown manner. Who knows?

What do you think the Lamictal & methylphenidate do to help you?
 
There were a few reasons I chose the lamictal.

One it obviously has significant stabilizing effects in many people when it comes to things that the hypothalamus > here < > here < is in control of. The hypothalamus controls mood, emotion, sleep and wake cycles, the sensations of pain, at least portions of Immune system responses > here <, the bodies level of fatige, > here < the brain and bodies arousel (clear thinking or the fibro fog) > here < and hunger and feeling asociated with the stomach (vomoting) "Vomiting is induced in the brain in a specific location in the hypothalamus, called the vomiting centre." > here <

"Lamotrigine is known to affect sleep. Studies with small numbers (10-15) of patients reported that lamotrigine increases sleep stability (increases the duration of REM sleep, decreases the number of phase shifts and decreases the duration of slow-wave sleep),[39] and that there was no effect on vigilance,[40] and daytime somnolence and cognitive function.[41]"


"Off-label uses include the treatment of peripheral neuropathy, trigeminal neuralgia, cluster headaches, migraines, and reducing neuropathic pain. [15][16][17] Off-label psychiatric usage includes the treatment of depersonalization disorder,[18] schizoaffective disorder,[19] borderline personality disorder,[20] and post-traumatic stress disorder.[21] Lamotrigine has been studied as an adjunctive therapy for treatment of refractory unipolar depression, attaining efficacy on the secondary metric for treatment outcomes (Clinical Global Impressions), but not the primary metrics (Montgomery-Åsberg Depression Rating Scale and Hamilton Rating Scale for Depression).[1]" source for both the above quotes > here <


so as I researched all my symptoms from both the sarcoidosis (autoimmune) and the fibro.. It became clear to me that my hypothalamus had run amok and was really out of whack as it controls directly was responsible for all the symtoms i had. So at that point I was not surprised that the therapies and medications used were not working well. I abandoned the current medical theory of these symptoms coming from different diseases and instead started to look at them as having one cause... Pan hypothalamic Dysfunction. Since the effects of lamictal have been shown to have positive effects in helping to stabilize or positively regulate many conditions associated with improper hypothalamic function I decided to go with this approach.

Since the hypothalamus is such a little powerhouse and can effect so many different chemical in the body and given the fact that I was apparently seeking some sort of hypothalamic stabilization I decided to end almost all other manipulation and promote proper homeostasis through mostly non pharmaceutical means.

So I removed myself from almost all the medications I was taking.. and really committed to the highest sleep health and exercise. Sleep is obviously essential to proper regulation and exercise has also been shown to do do this as well.

I stayed on the methylphenidate for a few reason.. to help facilitate a decent wake time allowing for me to get the proper sunlight in hopes that it would have a positive impact on stabilization. I also used it to be able to fight through the fatigue to some degree and exercise in a proper aerobic way. Also since its CNS stimulant it prevented the fibro fog as it increased the brains alertness.

From the beginning of all these steps.. as they were added as I figured more and more out.. but I was fully recovered from all of it in less than a year and I started to fell significantly better pretty quickly. it is possible that someone could feel significantly better real quickly.. but as I was aloud detoxing of methadone and benzos during portions of this year it is hard to tell what the effects may be on person who doesn't also have this to contend with.

My Internest also ordered a testosterone level check and it was really low though we will never know weather this was part of the hypothalamic/pituitary problem or was a problem that was caused by prolonged opiate and methadone therapy. So i was placed on

This is the neversickanymore approach to treating Pan Hypothalamic Dysfunction.

End note: when I was developing this approach I also noticed that there were some symptoms that didn't fall into hypothalamic control.. of which I identified as most likely coming from a vitamin D deficiency. even though I was taking a vitamin D supplement this was confirmed with a blood test and buy simply elevation my oral dose I was able to gain relief from these symptoms as well.

Hope this helps you in some way.<3 dont give up:)
 
Top