The Big & Dandy Psychedelics & Schizophrenia Thread

[SettingSun]

Welcome to the Big & Dandy Psychedelics & Schizophrenia Thread


This is the central thread on the topic of diagnosed schizophrenia in the context of psychedelic drug use. Despite the differences between the many psychedelic drugs that exist, in this thread we focus on the many commonalities they share since those are quite arguably the properties contra-indicated with a schizophrenia diagnosis. It would be very crude to say that all mental illness is contra-indicated with psychedelic use, far too often psychedelics can be beneficial / therapeutic, but in a fair number of cases it quite probably requires extra guidance.

If you want to discuss / read on the topic of the chance of developing schizophrenia triggered by psychedelic drug use, preferably see threads like this one:
http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/313046-shrooms-schizophrenia-!

For starters I would like to remind everyone that this is a harm reduction forum and while freedom of speech is celebrated, I want you all to stop for a second and realize the risks involved of exacerbating schizophrenia by psychedelics. Naturally these drugs have therapeutic potential, but they also stimulate the blurring of any boundary between fantasy and reality - which is exactly something schizophrenics tend to have problems with. What is also induced by psychedelics is dissociation and feeling as if one is being dissolved (ego softening etc), something related to 'ontological insecurity' seen in psychotics: feeling as if one does not really exist, or one's existence depends highly on external conditions.

Certainly not all mental illnesses are quite so delicate and related to psychedelic action.

So proceed discussing this topic carefully and conscientiously.


[original post:]

Hello,


I'm a huge fan of acid, and my schizophrenic friend is really interested in trying it. I really, really don't think that this is a good idea, for obvious reasons...

Does anyone have info regarding this? Is anyone here on bluelight schizophrenic and uses acid?

He's not looking to take it for a cure, but just as a recreational thing.

Thanks

 

[hawaii]

How do you know he is schizophrenic?
How can one be reconized as a schizo?

Sorry about the little OT but I'm curious

 

[Reverend Random]

If he's been diagnosed with schizophrenia, I'm afraid that trying psychedelics is a very bad idea, which most visitors on Bluelight will tell you.

 

[The Lone Deranger]

If he's been diagnosed with schizophrenia, I'm afraid that trying psychedelics is a very bad idea, which most visitors on Bluelight will tell you.

Yup ^^^ Tis true, psychc's are prob the very worst thing to be doing, mind its prob best to be fully abstaining from illicit drugs alltogether if your schizophrenic ..

 

[Reverend Random]

Also, the majority of antipsychotic medications will dull or just cancel out the effects of most if not all psychedelic substances.

 

[any major dude]

taking LSD while on antipsychotics is likely to be mostly pointless. And abstaining from antipsychotic meds is ill advised. I've been unable to turn up much hard data on whether or not people with schizophrenia/bipolar diagnoses are more likely to have a bad trip/post-trip difficulties/return of psychotic symptoms, but there is certainly some anecdotal evidence to that effect. But if he or she is on something like risperidone, geodon, thorazine, etc it's kind of a moot point because it'll basically just be a waste of acid.

 

[SettingSun]

Thanks for the replies. He's not on any medication and he doesn't do any other drugs, however he does drink.Through some research I've found that it either makes them lose it and go completely insane forever, but there have been other reports that it stops the schizophrenic symptoms for the duration of the trip. I agree that it's not a good idea.

So no one on bluelight is schizophrenic and has done acid? I'm trying to find first hand accounts

 

[TheAppleCore]

I'm not schizophrenic, but I have suffered from what I consider paranoid delusions in the past, and a psychotherapist has described me as "schizy" (lol). LSD has been fine with me, perhaps even helping me to cope with those symptoms.

It's probably a bit of a gamble, for your friend.

 

[limonov]

Best to play it safe eh...

I've seen a lot of schizophrenics (like, actual true to god schizophrenics) get involved in drugs, particularly stimulants and psychedelics and it's really not good for anyone. They have a tendency to be PROFOUNDLY effected by drugs, as well as often taking huge doses for no comprehenible reason. One guy took 5 tabs of LSD and 15 tab of what turned out to be DOB and went fucking APESHIT. Pitching a tent in a public park at about 2pm, ducking the motherfucking dragons APESHIT. Unfortunate drug-substitution to the side, who the fuck takes 20 tabs on a sunny wednesday morning for no fucking reason? Schizophreics do.

I'm really not down on the mentally ill, shit I literally can't count the number of friends I have who have been sectioned on my finngers. But for people at the schizophrenic, psychosis, 'experiences hallucinations & delusions' end of mental illness, drugs are really no good eh? Like, generally not even weed or alcohol...it sucks and all, but they just don't take to it. That and being involved in the drug culture can be very damaging for schizophrenics, it really exacerbates a lot of their problems

 

[BlueHues]

Bipolar and Schizophrenia are two very different things, with the psychosis of bipolar usually appearing as a result of the lack of sleep mania can cause. Also, someone in a psychotic manic episode will often be very extroverted and outgoing, like someone high on stimulants, and it's generally more mild delusions of grandeur rather than full-blown breaks with reality when it comes to mania. Also, auditory hallucinations(hearing voices) are more in the realm of schizophrenia, just thought I'd clarify that!

There have been studies done actually treating schizophrenia with certain psychedelics, in hopes that it could re-wire the brain and possibly cure schizophrenia...

I've known people diagnosed with schizophrenia who have used psychedelic drugs and been fine....I've known normal people who have taken psychedelics and had symptoms resembling schizophrenia for awhile after having a bad trip.

Most literature would absolutely probably say that using psychedelics with any schizophrenia diagnosis would be a bad idea, but I personally think it could be viewed either way. I'd definitely be extremely cautious that I was in the right environment and a good frame of mind if I was to do it under those circumstances!

I'm diagnoses bipolar, which I don't really know if I believe I have it. I haven't really ever taken medication for it past the few months after I was diagnosed. In the six years since I was diagnosed, I've really only had 2 manic episodes and when I was manic, I really only went delusional a few times after going long periods with little to know sleep. I'm normal most of the time, but if I was manic I'd definitel avaoid taking psychedelics during that time, although I have done it and it actually didn't make it any worse....

Schizophrenia is such a broad term....It's not like "chicken pox", where you definitely, indisputable have a specific thing...that's why psychology is an iffy science in my opinion...

 

[hitimes]

I personally am diagnosed with schizoaffective and have taken acid a few times within the past few months and also did nbome's about 10-20 times. The antipsychotics do dull the trip somewhat but be very careful and be in a positive setting. Be open with yourself and do not take the antipsychotics the day of. Take them the next day and it'll also help with your comedown.

 

[Foreigner]

Through some research I've found that it either makes them lose it and go completely insane forever, but

Snip.

The first part of your sentence should be a pretty good indication that this is not worth it. Even if his symptoms are suppressed during the trip, he could end up having symptoms after the trip.

Do you really want to risk your friend ending up in a psych ward just so he can join you in some acid? If you do it, you're making a real gamble.

Whether you do the acid with him or not, have fun dealing wth someone having a schizoaffective episode if it turns ugly. You will wish to god you never did it.

 

[ParappaTheRapper]

Ima go the other way and say itd be okay. Depends on the person. someone in the middle of a paranoid schzophrenia shpuldnt trip but when it comes down to it what percentage of deadheads for example are probably disoragnized type schzohprenics. even long time pot smokers. its a hge spectrum and depends on the environment.
I have read places and would also assume as much that sczhophrenics have higher tolerances and are less effected because they are used to disoragnized.thought patterns and sensory overload. Though different then the psychosis model lkldebate, the sympoms do overlap in deviation from
normal conciousness. Also, if u picture blunted affect fro example, then the trip will have less emotional depth etc.
Syd Barret for example was mentally ill during the whole pink floyd. experence and acid suited him well. it wasn't until he took an overdose and they started locking him in closets and shit until he lost it.
anyway, most of the earliest experiments, especially sucessful ones, involved curing psychotic patitents.
Sczhophrenia and mental illness has a terrible and unrealistic stigma in society. the portion of sczhophrenics eating out of dumpsters running from secret police is a television/movie hype. its a large a natural spectrum likr anything else. Just like OCD is nothing like Monk or Full House for most people.

 

[Magickduck]

i've got a friend with schizophrenia and I watched him eat one hit of LSD once and he didn't have a bad time per say but he was ramblin' some crazy shit about demons and the military all day. he seemed pretty happy and returned to normal shortly after. Another time he ate a very small ammount of cactus... maybe 9-10 grams, and had a very bad trip where he was seeing "evil images morphing into world leaders" with his eyes closed and pretty much stopped talking all night. once again by the next day he was fine again. personally, i've had schizoaffective tendancies and LSD seems to be the most likely to cause issues - i never went nuts during the trips but in the months-year(s) proceeding my binges i definitly had some issues. small doses of mushrooms seem to be best for both this friend of mine and me - neither of us seem to have any bad reaction. cactus is great for me, not so great for him.

i'd recommend small doses (<1g cubesnsis) of mushrooms if you are going to trip with your friend.

 

[TheAppleCore]

They have a tendency to be PROFOUNDLY effected by drugs, as well as often taking huge doses for no comprehenible reason. One guy took 5 tabs of LSD and 15 tab of what turned out to be DOB and went fucking APESHIT.

This is the problem. Everyone is always hot on their feet to warn of the catastrophic effects of mixing psychedelics with schizophrenia. But, of the trips in which schizos react negatively to psychedelics, how many of these are carefully controlled trips, conducted in a positive setting, with a gentle and conservative dosage? I'd wager that most of them involve irresponsible behavior that would land even perfectly sane people in a hospital.

It seems to me that there is just as much, if not more evidence that cautious, therapeutic usage of psyches has a positive effect on schizophrenic symptoms, than the opposite.

 

[BlueHues]

I think meditation and other natural techniques of clearing your mind and raising your consciousness would be much safer than using psychedelics if you have mental health issues....Stress plays a big part in many mental illnesses and some people are able to control their symptoms without the horrible side-effects that can come with AP meds...

In general, I'd have to suggest not using psychedelics with schizophrenia, it would be irresponsible to suggest otherwise, not to say that it couldn't end up with a positive outcome, but the risks seem to outweigh the benefits in most cases...

I think it greatly depends on the person and their individual reaction to psychedelics...I've often wondered if someone with severe schizophrenic psychosis my be "jolted out of it" if they used LSD, but I have no evidence that this would happen....

 

[GreenMachine]

sounds like a terrible idea. if this kid is hell-bent on tripping i would stay about a hundred miles away from him when doing so, just my experience.

 

[Penthos]

Personal experience talking here: Don't do it.

My ex-gf was a paranoid schizophrenic and she took some and got completely obliterated. Total psychotic break, depersonalization, paranoia, confustion, etc. I had to call EMS to be sure since the only words I'd gotten out of her that made any sense were along the lines of "i have a condition and I need medication". I don't mess around when it comes to that sort of thing so I called EMS. She had not told me of her condition until this point. She remembered nothing of her experience the next day.

She was fine on one hit for several trips but as soon as she bumped up to 2 hits (I'd estimate each hit to be about 120uG) she lost herself completely. Not only that but it triggered her disorder into a higher gear for months later from that experience.

I have absolutely NO data to back this theory up but I'd say that LSD has a higher affinity for messing with latent (and active) physiological conditions than other psychedelics. Please don't read too much into that, it's just from what I've experienced in person. Bad mushroom trips are awful. Scary, confusing, horrible etc...But i've only seen complete depersonalization from LSD.

 

[King-Anubis]

From what I understand, most psychedelics act on dopamine and serotonin receptors. These are the same receptors that are believed to play a part in schizophrenia. Giving a schizophrenic psychedelics is, in my eyes, like giving a diabetic sugar. It may not cause a problem, but there's a chance that it could. Why? Because you messing with something that's already malfunctioning - screwing with receptors that are already playing up. There's always a risk.

 

[2002Tii]

Wouldn't LSD's "dirty" binding profile make this more risky than with other compounds?