1st time etizolam user

[ldawg616]

hi i was wondering how many mg it would take for a first timer for this pill?

 

[laCster]

do you have the pills or the powder?

1mg etizolam = 0.5mg xanax, however the powder is extremely concentrated and should not be used without an accurate scale. i ordered the powder like a dumbass last year and i blacked out for a full 24hrs after dosing what looked like 10mgs of etizolam 8(...the pills are alot safer to use

soo..... i'd take 1-3mgs if i were you, and not go above 4mgs. etizolam feels like a mix between xanax and temazepam

 

[ldawg616]

ok thanks, what happens if i go over 4 mgs?

 

[laCster]

you risk blacking out just like any other benzo

 

[ldawg616]

oh ok well i have a high tolerance, is this stuff really strong or something ive heard so much about it

oh and im getting the pills

 

[Venrak]

^it's pretty strong dude, and technically not a benzodiadepine but a thienodiazepine. Tolerance or not, there is probably a less complete cross tolerance between etizolam and and other classic benzos. Don't start with more than 1mg. They take effect quick enough, so you can gauge your dose from there.

EDIT: Also, this drug seems to have a lesser tendency to cause tolerance and dependance compared to classic benzodiazepines source

 

[Cane2theLeft]

^ why do you say there probably will be 'less-complete cross-tolerance'?

You're of course correct that it has a thiophene ring rather than a benzene ring but it still binds non-selectively to the benzodiazepene receptors (the ionotropic GABA_a receptor protein complex) and is a full-agonist just like classic benzodiazepines.

That's not to say that you're incorrect in recommending caution, I am just curious what informed that statement.

As laC mentioned, 1mg of etizolam is equivalent to .5mg of alprazolam or .5mg clonazepam/10mg diazepam (if you are more familiar with other benzodiazepines, you can find equivalencies here.

Please be careful however because, as I and others who have used etizolam pills have found, there can be a degree of variance in the potency of the pills. They may be in sealed blister packs marked "1mg" but are produced in areas with less stringent production controls than the FDA and other western regulatory agencies. In JUST my personal experience, they are fairly consistent but occasionally I've come across pills of marked decreased OR increased potency.

 

[Praline]

Please be careful..I took these for 4 months, about 3-4mg a day and got horrific rebound anxiety and panic attacks when I quit. I felt really close to a seizure for a few hours, which I was surprised at. Just saying, don't underestimate these little blue guys. I probably didn't taper enough. Just wanted you to be cautious. If you plan on making a habit out of them, make sure you save 10 or 20 pills, or some kava or phenibut, , so you have something to taper with.

They are awesome for social and general anxiety, though..

 

[Venrak]

^ why do you say there probably will be 'less-complete cross-tolerance'?

You're of course correct that it has a thiophene ring rather than a benzene ring but it still binds non-selectively to the benzodiazepene receptors (the ionotropic GABA_a receptor protein complex) and is a full-agonist just like classic benzodiazepines.

That's not to say that you're incorrect in recommending caution, I am just curious what informed that statement.

As laC mentioned, 1mg of etizolam is equivalent to .5mg of alprazolam or .5mg clonazepam/10mg diazepam (if you are more familiar with other benzodiazepines, you can find equivalencies here.

Please be careful however because, as I and others who have used etizolam pills have found, there can be a degree of variance in the potency of the pills. They may be in sealed blister packs marked "1mg" but are produced in areas with less stringent production controls than the FDA and other western regulatory agencies. In JUST my personal experience, they are fairly consistent but occasionally I've come across pills of marked decreased OR increased potency.

Abrupt or over rapid withdrawal from etizolam as with benzodiazepines may result in the appearance of the benzodiazepine withdrawal syndrome, including rebound insomnia.[8] A neuroleptic malignant syndrome, a rare event in benzodiazepine withdrawal has been documented in a case of abrupt withdrawal from etizolam.[9]

1. Patients with generalized anxiety disorder were either treated with Etizolam (0.5 mg), Alprazolam (0.5 mg), or Bromazepam (3 mg) twice a day. While all three drugs retained their effectiveness over two weeks, etizolam actually started to become more effective than the other benzos from to 2 weeks to 4 weeks (reverse tolerance in a way). The researchers also note antidepressant activity in etizolam not seen in the other two drugs tested. [10] PubMed Etizolam in the treatment of generalized anxiety disorder

2. No cognitive deficits over 3 weeks compared to placebo were noticed with etizolam 0.5 mg BID, a curious finding for a BZD agonist [11] PubMed 0. Effects of treatment with etizolam 0.5 mg BID on cognitive performance

3. When multiple doses of etizolam or lorazepam were administered to rat neurons, lorazepam caused downregulation of alpha-1 BZD sites (aka tolerance/dependence), while etizolam caused an increase in alpha-2 BZD sites (aka reverse tolerance to anti-anxiety effect).

Also, the researchers noted a marked tolerance over time to the anticonvulsant effects of lorazepam, but no significant tolerance to anticonvulsant effects of etizolam.

Quote from abstract: "These data suggest that etizolam is endowed with a reduced liability to induce tolerance and dependence compared with classical benzodiazepines." [12] Low tolerance and dependence liabilities of etizolam

source

There's nothing that outright says so there, and I have to dig deeper than wiki obviously, but that is enough for me to know something funky is going on with this benzo when compared to others in terms of tolerances, and with the difference in structure I erred on the side of caution with that note.

I'm no neurochemist so I may be wrong

 

[Cane2theLeft]

Every -diazepine that is widely used is slightly different from others in their affinity for certain GABA_a subunits. While some may have more pronounced sedative/hypnotic and amnestic effects (e.g. midazolam) due to stronger affinity for α1 and/or α5 subunits, others will have more pronounced anxiolytic effects (e.g. diazepam) due to stronger affinity for α2 and/or α3. All of the subunits can produce an anticonvulsant effect.

Due to variance in subunit affinities, there will be a degree of incomplete cross tolerance between benzodiazepines just like there are with opioids or any class of drug but from my understanding of how etizolam and benzodiazepines work, there will not be less complete cross tolerance between etizolam and any benzodiazepine than how much exists between various benzodiazepines in general.

In the studies you mentioned, they demonstrated that they had the same efficacy in treating seizure activity and anxiety as other benzodiazepines, so they suggest that they can be used interchangeably with benzodiazepines for the same indications (due to the same receptor activity as I mentioned) so I would avoid inferring that due to the possibility of a reduction in tolerance and dependence that they would be less cross tolerant.

The main reason I wanted to clarify this is because if someone is heavily physically dependent on benzodiazepines and read that there may be less complete cross tolerance, they may erroneously believe they have to take MORE etizolam than they do to avoid seizures and other withdrawal symptoms.

Those studies you mentioned are very interesting and promising and I hope that this is investigated further because those two are rather limited. The first one only involved 45 patients (a mere 15 of which were taking etizolam) and the second involved rats and strictly looked at the anticonvulsant activity. With stories of people already experiencing nasty withdrawal from etizolam despite the short time it's been so widely available recreationally (the long-term effects of which will undoubtedly be characteristically different than low-dose therapeutic use), I'd hate for people to get the impression that it is safe. I don't at all mean to imply that you were suggesting that, I just wanted to add a bit more context. Admittedly, I haven't searched for meta-analyses or anything, so there might be more information on this out there. If anyone has links to more studies, I'd be very interested!

I do certainly apologize for hijacking this thread, OP. Listen to everyone above though, start low and go slow

 

[Venrak]

Every -diazepine that is widely used is slightly different from others in their affinity for certain GABA_a subunits. While some may have more pronounced sedative/hypnotic and amnestic effects (e.g. midazolam) due to stronger affinity for α1 and/or α5 subunits, others will have more pronounced anxiolytic effects (e.g. diazepam) due to stronger affinity for α2 and/or α3. All of the subunits can produce an anticonvulsant effect.

Due to variance in subunit affinities, there will be a degree of incomplete cross tolerance between benzodiazepines just like there are with opioids or any class of drug but from my understanding of how etizolam and benzodiazepines work, there will not be less complete cross tolerance between etizolam and any benzodiazepine than how much exists between various benzodiazepines in general.

In the studies you mentioned, they demonstrated that they had the same efficacy in treating seizure activity and anxiety as other benzodiazepines, so they suggest that they can be used interchangeably with benzodiazepines for the same indications (due to the same receptor activity as I mentioned) so I would avoid inferring that due to the possibility of a reduction in tolerance and dependence that they would be less cross tolerant.

The main reason I wanted to clarify this is because if someone is heavily physically dependent on benzodiazepines and read that there may be less complete cross tolerance, they may erroneously believe they have to take MORE etizolam than they do to avoid seizures and other withdrawal symptoms.

Those studies you mentioned are very interesting and promising and I hope that this is investigated further because those two are rather limited. The first one only involved 45 patients (a mere 15 of which were taking etizolam) and the second involved rats and strictly looked at the anticonvulsant activity. With stories of people already experiencing nasty withdrawal from etizolam despite the short time it's been so widely available recreationally (the long-term effects of which will undoubtedly be characteristically different than low-dose therapeutic use), I'd hate for people to get the impression that it is safe. I don't at all mean to imply that you were suggesting that, I just wanted to add a bit more context. Admittedly, I haven't searched for meta-analyses or anything, so there might be more information on this out there. If anyone has links to more studies, I'd be very interested!

I do certainly apologize for hijacking this thread, OP. Listen to everyone above though, start low and go slow

I completely understand your concern, and didn't wish to imply at all that this drug is somehow exempt from the precautions necessary with benzodiazepines.

 

[ldawg616]

Thank you all for your replies, does anyone know the safety of etizolam since it's still a research chemical? A little concerned as you can imagine.

 

[Cane2theLeft]

^ your best bet is to treat it like a benzodiazepine. As the studies above indicate, there MIGHT be a reduced propensity for it to produce tolerance and dependence, but given that this isn't fully flushed out, you are better off proceeding with caution.

Technically, this isn't a research chemical. It is an approved pharmaceutical that is used in other countries and is often times accessible to westerners via research chemical vendors. It has been studied and is understood far better than most research chemicals in use.

All indication point to it being roughly on par with benzodiazepines as far as safety goes - in short, it's probably not easy to OD on alone, is VERY easy to OD on when combined with other CNS depressants, can quite easily produce blackouts and amnesia resulting in potentially dangerous behavior you won't remember, etc.

Use responsibly and infrequently!

 

[laCster]

good posts cane... +1

a word to the wise... dont fuck around with etizolam POWDER if you dont have a good scale that measures 3 significant figures..

i liked the etizolam sheets (of 10 tablets) the best. the tablets seem to vary by 1mg (+/-); 2-4mgs usually had me feeling good from the tabs..

 

[hatrix]

Withdrawal is very possible, just to warn you. I went through 50mg or so in a little over a week and definitely experienced some withdrawal for a couple days when I ran out.

 

[Cane2theLeft]

^ those with prior history of benzodiazepine dependence will especially find themselves becoming dependent much quicker as well.

Good note on the powder, laC. I only purchase the pills now, but when I accidentally ordered 100mg of the powder once, I found my cheap mg scale was insufficiently precise to measure out single mg doses so I just dissolved the 100mg in 200ml of everclear, agitated it for many minutes, stored it in vials and used a ml dropper to dose it. 1ml=.5mg etizolam and it worked very well.

I would NEVER recommend using the powder unless someone very precisely utilizes liquid measurement or has a *lab grade* scale.

 

[ldawg616]

Yah I definitely won't fuck with the powder. I took 3mg and it felt a lot like xanax, except i felt a little sleepier.