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Scopolamine

Old thread but I wanted to reply: Are people really this unfamiliar with the effects of scopolamine? I thought it was commonly combined with codeine and/or hydrocodone in cough syrups? I've taken enough scopolamine to get minimal effects from it combined with the opioids. The effects weren't totally unpleasant and just provided me with a headspace similar to a mild delirious dose of benadryl. I've seen this "zombie powder" documentary before and it seemed like mostly bullshit.
 
Actually I don't think it is bullshit. Scopolamine produces heavy delirium at sufficient dose. Imagine someone on datura (it's one of the things in datura), and then imagine someone appearing to be a figure of authority telling you what to do, guiding you in your state of confusion that you can't realize you're in for more than moments at a time.
 
Old thread but I wanted to reply: Are people really this unfamiliar with the effects of scopolamine? I thought it was commonly combined with codeine and/or hydrocodone in cough syrups? I've taken enough scopolamine to get minimal effects from it combined with the opioids. The effects weren't totally unpleasant and just provided me with a headspace similar to a mild delirious dose of benadryl. I've seen this "zombie powder" documentary before and it seemed like mostly bullshit.
Do you mean promethazine? I've never heard of adding scopolamine to opioid cough preparations.
 
Old thread but I wanted to reply: Are people really this unfamiliar with the effects of scopolamine? I thought it was commonly combined with codeine and/or hydrocodone in cough syrups? I've taken enough scopolamine to get minimal effects from it combined with the opioids. The effects weren't totally unpleasant and just provided me with a headspace similar to a mild delirious dose of benadryl. I've seen this "zombie powder" documentary before and it seemed like mostly bullshit.

Scopolamine is used against motion sickness, the dosage for that is at least 10-20 times smaller than a tripping dose.
 
Actually I don't think it is bullshit. Scopolamine produces heavy delirium at sufficient dose. Imagine someone on datura (it's one of the things in datura), and then imagine someone appearing to be a figure of authority telling you what to do, guiding you in your state of confusion that you can't realize you're in for more than moments at a time.

I mean I could see it but the way it was presented on TV was clearly acted. I didn't mean it wasn't possible just that VICE did a horrible job at presenting it and I'm sure other chemicals might be involved. I've heard stories of the witch doctors putting people in that state and their breathing being so shallow that everyone thought the person they dosed was dead. They'd bury them and then the shaman would raise them from the grave several days later.

Do you mean promethazine? I've never heard of adding scopolamine to opioid cough preparations.

It wasn't promethazine. I pretty sure it was scopolamine but it may have been homatropine or atropine. I used to get a lot of hydrocodone syrup from a local compounding pharmacy. I'd often consume more than half the bottle at one time. I'd get in a very dreamy state similar to the benadryl experiences I had as a young man. I knew what I was doing and dosed it accordingly but I was an opioid addict at the time so I pushed it a little far a couple of times. I got uncomfortable once and took enough of it where I was seeing people that weren't there. I once saw something like a demon or a dead man that vanished in a puff of smoke. It came and stood over me while I was laying on a couch attempting to ride out the effects. I'm sure if I'd taken just a bit more I would have gotten totally delirious.

I assumed scopolamine preparations with opioids were common. Maybe it's just a local thing. Thinking on it I don't think I've seen it prescribed very often and I don't recall ever finding any in the wild. For some reason that particular doctor was prescribing it about every 3 months to a family member of mine. They didn't take the stuff very often but kept filling prescriptions for it. They were huge bottles and there were so many laying around the house I'd often just take one for myself. Shitty thing to do I know but I was pretty deep into an addiction at that point. At some point he stopped prescribing that and switched over to handing out tussionex. Now a days he won't prescribe opioids at all because he got caught writing so many prescriptions. The locals called him doctor feel good for many years due to all the oxycodone and xanax he handed out. He was probably supplying most of our town for about a decade.

Scopolamine is used against motion sickness, the dosage for that is at least 10-20 times smaller than a tripping dose.

Yes, I understand. I was taking 10+ doses as a standard dose though. The cough syrup I was getting it in only had 5mg of hydrocodone as a standard dose. I required 40-50mg at that time to stay out of w/d and upwards to 100mg to catch a buzz. I was taking a lot of anything that was mixed with it. So my standard doses would put me right near the tripping dose.

Thinking more on this I think I've figured out why I was getting it now: The person that prescription was written for has a very hard time tolerating opioids in general. Even tramadol will make her very sick on her stomach. The doctor was probably giving her a compound medicine to offset her reaction to opioids in general. She would take sick with a horrible cough nearly every winter and summer so she was getting scripted opioid-cough syrup fairly often.
 
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Oh I think you're talking about the zombies episode, yeah that was bullshit I think. There is another episode about a new phenomenon where people are spiking drinks or blowing powder in the face (scopolamine) and once the victim becomes delirious and has no idea what's happening, the attacker assumes the role of guide and convinces them to do various things like empty their bank accounts, open their house to them to be robbed, sexual assault, etc. Different than the zombie thing, the victim just doesn't realize what's real and what isn't and they largely remember it later. They remain able to do things like operate an ATM and so forth. It seems to be a big thing in South Africa I believe, these days.
 
Oh I think you're talking about the zombies episode, yeah that was bullshit I think. There is another episode about a new phenomenon where people are spiking drinks or blowing powder in the face (scopolamine) and once the victim becomes delirious and has no idea what's happening, the attacker assumes the role of guide and convinces them to do various things like empty their bank accounts, open their house to them to be robbed, sexual assault, etc. Different than the zombie thing, the victim just doesn't realize what's real and what isn't and they largely remember it later. They remain able to do things like operate an ATM and so forth. It seems to be a big thing in South Africa I believe, these days.

Oh okay, was a different episode then. I don't watch much TV anymore. I can see something like that happening if you were to dose someone with scopolamine.
 
The story originated in Columbia.
Disturbing of course, but fascinating nonetheless.

https://allthatsinteresting.com/devils-breath-scopolamine-burundanga

There was actually a group of young teenagers that died in the town I grew up from eating Jimson Weed. It put the fear in me from grade school to stay away from that plant. It's an incredibly dangerous drug to play around with. The fact that those people are purposely giving stranger's massive doses is beyond fucked up. Karma will deal with them as it does.

~Charlie
 
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Scopolamine is used against motion sickness, the dosage for that is at least 10-20 times smaller than a tripping dose.

I believe the form of "Scopolamine" that you buy over the counter is not the form that will do anything psychotropic to you, though some have claimed to have accidentally had effects from using more than one patch in the space of a few days, and maybe having a drink or two.

Scopolamine Butylbromide (i.e.: Hyoscine Butylbromide) is what's in the seasickness patches:
https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/6852391
Scopolamine Hydrobromide (i.e.: Hyoscine Hydrobromide) is what comes from factories in China, and labs in northern South America and northern Central America:
https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/Scopolamine_hydrobromide
It's worth noting that Hyoscine Butylbromide, which is the over-the-counter one, doesn't work so much, because it has a quaternary nitrogen cation that prevents it from crossing the blood brain barrier, making it much less active. I might also add that "Burundanga", is reportedly a mix of Hyoscine Hydrobromide with small amounts of tetrodotoxin and other things to stupefy and cause near-paralysis. This is not to be confused with Toloache, To?, and the many other names for the sources of Hyoscine Hydrobromide.

I believe Scopolamine is Hyoscine, biosynthesised from Hyoscyamine (Daturine) as found in Brugmansia varieties, as Atropine is L-Hyoscyamine as found in Datura varieties.
One of many kinds of antimuscarinic anticholinergic tropane alkaloids that inhibit acetylcholine activity in connections to the Hippocampi and Amygdalas, where your short-term memory and emotional tuning of memory and fight or flight response happens; I think it acts upon the parasympathetic nervous system, which explains the other side effects. I read that dopamine is also activated a bit too in the Striatum, Ventral Tegmental Area, and Nucleus Accumbens Septi by some anticholinergics. There's something about the Pons and aminergic activation that has an effect on the ability to differentiate between dreams and reality. It's interesting that we dream several times a night, but never remember it, and i think this has something to do with acetylcholine being active in NREM sleep but not during REM sleep, and vice versa for dopamine. I don't know if that means it puts people into a zombi state or into a hypnotic trance, but I read someone on this forum, say that they used it for narcohypnosis, it's not easy to find academic research to confirm anything about that. https://www.bluelight.org/vb/archive/index.php/t-512875.html

Oh I think you're talking about the zombies episode, yeah that was bullshit I think. There is another episode about a new phenomenon where people are spiking drinks or blowing powder in the face (scopolamine) and once the victim becomes delirious and has no idea what's happening, the attacker assumes the role of guide and convinces them to do various things like empty their bank accounts, open their house to them to be robbed, sexual assault, etc. Different than the zombie thing, the victim just doesn't realize what's real and what isn't and they largely remember it later. They remain able to do things like operate an ATM and so forth. It seems to be a big thing in South Africa I believe, these days.

I tend to agree. If you think about it, blowing powder into someone's face seems unlikely to do much. Assuming it's blown with enough velocity to reach the face, and there's no breeze to scatter it, the nostrils point down, and it's difficult to see how sufflation could mechanically happen - a sneeze seems more likely. Add to that, the eyes have more potentially exposed blood vessels, but the normal reaction to anything blowing into the eyes, is to close them. If any goes into the mouth, which may not be open, it still has to get past natural coughing, choking, gagging, and vomiting reactions; and if on the skin, the skin would have to be moist, perhaps from sweat or precipitation for the powder to have enough motility to become solvent and be absorbed, otherwise it woukd probably mostly fall off the skin.
Even if all those obstacles were overcome, it would have to be in a sufficient dose and of the active form to have a chance of an effect. That effect would take many minutes to arise if the material has to be absorbed through the surface of organs like skin or stomach; only gases, smoke or vapours could activate in seconds because the lungs are full of many blood vessels.
So, the blowing powder aspect of it is probably overstated, but ingestion via food or drink seems feasible. As for the effects, i believe the effects would be the same as many deliriants as described in many sources, but probably not as simple as just becoming a compliant zombi. Whether that makes it feasible for someone to be led to an ATM and compelled to hand over their stuff is unclear.
It's interesting that people talk about "free will" being suppressed, but what is "free will"? Where is it in the brain? What neurotransmitters interact with it, and how? I think the term used in neuroscience is "sense of agency", and it's maybe in the neocortex, and there's more than one thing happening there, in more than one area, with more than one neurotransmitter involved.
 
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Knowledge of this chemical freely available is proof there isn?t government conspiracy in my book. Why don?t we all do our good deep of the day AND KEEP THAT WORD OUT OF OUR MOUTHS? Plainly speaking it works and it?s your gateway to committing heinous crimes. If people in my area knew about this I?d probably never go outside.
 
Frankly you can say that about lots of things, the word in the title of this thread is loaded with baggage and misinformation. Factual information about things might actually prevent harm by giving people a reality check about what is and isn't actually possible, instead of regurgitating rumours and extrapolating from them.
 
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