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[Combo Sub Thread] MDMA and Stimulants - Meth and adderall and amphet... I'm tweakin

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meloen1

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This is the second combination subthread, this time for Stimulant type drugs such as amphetamine and MDMA.


Methamphetamine, amphetamine sulphate, Adderall (a dextroamphetamine saccharate, dextroamphetamine sulfate, racemic amphetamine aspartate monohydrate, and racemic amphetamine sulfate mix), Dexedrine (Dextroamphetamine sulphate) and other classic amphetamines will be the main discussion because they are the most tested and are "safer", but RC stimulants such as 4-FA, MPA, MDPV, a-PVP and other new chemicals may be discussed as well.

Be warned however, as these new RCs are untested and often contain adulterants. You take it upon yourself to look up all interactions before hand and always take extreme caution when combining unresearched drugs.



Cocaine and MDMA could also be discussed, but due to it's unique interaction with MDMA it may deserve it's own thread. Methylphenidate has the same interaction, as does any other dopamine/serotonin/norepinephrine re-uptake inhibitor.





Combining MDMA with amphetamine has been shown to be GREATLY more neurotoxic than taking MDMA or meth/amphet alone, as a large amount of MDMA induced damage to the brain is caused my dopamine related free radicals in the brain entering and destroying serotonin axons/dendrites


Showing that MDMA damage is caused by oxidative stress and free radicals:
The mechanism proposed for this apparent neurotoxicity involves the induction of oxidative stress. This stress results from an increase in free radicals and a decrease in antioxidants in the brain. (Shankaran, 2001)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_MDMA_on_the_human_body
Click to expand...

Showing that Meth (other amphetamines are extremely similar) also causes this same damage:
Overall, the results illustrate that METH increases pro-oxidant processes and offer supportive evidence that METH produces oxidative damage.
http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/287/1/107.long
Click to expand...


Using common sense, we can infer that the two together is going to be MUCH harder on the brain and body than either drug alone. That is shown here:

CONCLUSIONS. These results suggest that MDMA and METH in combination may have greater adverse acute effects (head-weaving, body temperature) and long-term effects (decreased social interaction, increased emergence anxiety, dopamine depletion) than equivalent doses of either drug alone.
http://www.erowid.org/references/refs_view.php?ID=6362
Click to expand...





So, it's a DAMN neurotoxic combo. But there is a reason why it is so bad for you... it feels DAMN good! I'd be lying if I didn't say I didn't really used to like this combo... but it caused an untold amount of damage to my brain and I don't think I'll ever touch it again.


If you do decide to use this combo, dose slightly lower than your normal MDMA dose (say 120mg instead of 150mg) and dose VERY low on the speed. I would never go over 25mg of amphetamine and 15mg of methamphetamine... less is more with this combo. Speed is a very strong drug, and even small amounts will give you the energy you're looking for.





Good luck and happy tweaking ;) Post any experiences and questions here!












OP's original post: First few times I did MDMA I had these intense energetic rolls, where you feel weightless. These have never come back. Although still rolling very nicely, I don''t have that massive energy rush anymore. I often see people stating that taking amphetamine with MDMA reduces the empathy and magic. I like the empathy, but the extreme empathy and hugging is nice, but I would trade some of the empathy for more of a rushlike roll during a rave. So was thinking adding 5-10mg of amphetamine to a cap with 130mg MDMA crystal. What effect does this have on the roll. Will such a low dose of amp still remove all the empathy magic?
Or will it be more euphoric with such a low dose of amp and give a great rush?

I know neurotoxicity is increased, however I think such a small amount of amp will not greatly increase neurotoxicity, as long as you take your 1000mg of vitamin C 5 hours into the roll.
What are you ideas on a roll with amp (a LOW dose, so no high doses), compared to a roll without amp during a rave. Wich is better.
And does a little bit (5mg or 10 at most) greatly increase the hangover?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I started a thread about this not too long ago at all.

For me it didn't reduce the empathy, in fact I was extremely suprised the first time I tried amphetamines because of how similar they felt to mdma (At least in my opinion), that being said it was just myself and one close friend talking, so the empathogenic qualities could have merely come from the fact that I quite like the guy :D

Obviously there's that certain bit missing and I think for me it was more association of feeling empathetic when feeling the identical sort of stimulation. Either way I loved the combo but probably a no no or at most a 1 times a year type thing.
 
I never noticed any reduced feelings of empathy when combining MDMA with amp - When I used to be raving all the time I would always take MDMA with Amps as I enjoy the energetic rushy feelings.

How do you feel after taking small amounts of amps? Do you get a really bad hangover? If you don't then combining it with MDMA shouldn't give you a horrible comedown.

Have you tried combining caffeine to your 'roll' this can really work wonders to give your roll that extra kick.
 
Hmm, bearlove, I read many times that amphetamines cancel out the MDMA magic, how much did you take?

Well, I have done amphetamine 2 times, and I did quite alot, I think 0,2 grams of about 30-50% amphetamine snorted throughout the night at indoor raves. The rush is intense and amazing, although the real euphoria only lasts about 20 minutes (starts 5 minutes after you snort), and then it gets less euphoric, still very stimulating however.
It is nothing compared to the energetic rolls I had in the past however.
The stuff does not give me emotional hangovers, but a baaaad physical one. So I''m completely tired for 2 days. However i find the emotional hangovers MDMA gives much worse, you feel absolutely fine physically but some reason you feel depressed and negative about everything. Does the EMOTIONAL, so not the physical, hangover increase when combining with a LITTLE amphetamine?

I was thinking something in the region of 140mg MDMA crystal + 10mg amp and a 100mg MDMA crystal redose at 1,5-2 hours, then some ket or 2c-b when the MDMA just starts to wear off the kick it up again (with the added advantage of ketamine preventing tolerance build-up during the hour it is active, so if you keep doing small amounts of ketamine the entire time until you fall asleep you build much less tolerance during that session).

Most neurotoxic damage starts about 4-6 hours after the MDMA is takes, so if you take a small amount of a dopamine releaser like amp art T:0:00, the biggest initial dopamine rush is gone by that time. However, because amp is much stronger dopamine releaser, it should desentisize dopamine system more quickly, so when it starts wearing off, the roll should stop too because MDMA is not a strong enough dopamine releaser?

While I like the ''''I love everything'' magic, sometimes I would want one of those rolls where you can dance all night in a state off trance and bliss, even if you have to trade some empathy for it. I don''t want to lose the head rushes, amazing feelings and music appreciaition however, so is this also lost when you take a small amount of amp? If I can find MDA, I would need no amp anymore, as I would simply do MDMA + MDA for all the good effects :)

Anyway, next time MDMA I will combine it with 2c-b, then the time after that with some sort of stimulant, even if it''s caffein.
 
This really depends on what you consider the 'magic' of MDMA - I personally never noticed any lack of empathy/or the rushes when combining MDMA and Amps (at much higher doses than your planning to take). Yes the Amps give the experience a lot of energy and yes I could imagine some people being overwhelmed at the pushy edge of stims but if your used to them and enjoy the dancing all night then its a great combo. I found that MDMA and amps is pretty much my ideal combo as a base - have the music appreciation, the rushes, the tactile sensations and empathy coupled with the energy and buzz that comes from amps.

Adding ket to the mix at the tail end is really fun (lets face it ket is fun at any time :D) just dont take too much too quickly and end up a mess.
 
meloen1 said:
I was thinking something in the region of 140mg MDMA crystal + 10mg amp and a 100mg MDMA crystal redose at 1,5-2 hours, then some ket or 2c-b when the MDMA just starts to wear off the kick it up again (with the added advantage of ketamine preventing tolerance build-up during the hour it is active, so if you keep doing small amounts of ketamine the entire time until you fall asleep you build much less tolerance during that session).
Click to expand...

Whats this about less tolerance build up? So if you redose ketamine whilst still on it your tolerance doesn't increase as much as if you wait to sober and then do a line? I heard that lots of small k bumps increases tolerance faster than doing a large k-hole line. Seems to be conflicting anecedotal evidence, is there any scientific reasoning behind one is true and the other isn't?
 
Okami said:
Whats this about less tolerance build up? So if you redose ketamine whilst still on it your tolerance doesn't increase as much as if you wait to sober and then do a line? I heard that lots of small k bumps increases tolerance faster than doing a large k-hole line. Seems to be conflicting anecedotal evidence, is there any scientific reasoning behind one is true and the other isn't?
Click to expand...
No, I''m not talkiing about ketamine tolerance, wich does build up, I''m talking about the tolerance to MDMA (or other amphetamines). There is a topic wich broadly discusses the subject of use of NMDA antagonist to prevent amphetamines tolerance build up. For tolerance to build up, one need these NMDA channels/receptors. The tolerance (see downregulation of receptors) starts a few fours into the MDMA experience. If you take ketamine some of these NMDA channels are blocked and downregulation of serotonin receptors is slowed down. If you take bumps of ketamine until most of the serotonin has been released by the MDMA (so take bumps until you've come down), it would seem the serotonin receptors are less downregulated (for almost no downregulation one would have to K-hole for hours), than without ketamine.
I have done this one time, and the effects was very nice. Instead of the neutral mood I mostly have on the day after, I now had a very nice afterglow (less downregulation), and the next roll 3 weeks later was very strong, while most of the times 3 weeks is not enough of a break for me. However, I took a high dose that time.

Better would be to take a long acting NMDA antagonist, so you don''t have to take it all the time during and on the come down of your roll (although ketamine is nice by itself during MDMA). People have tried memantine (a prescription drug), wich is long acting.

Even more interesting is that memantine acts on a nicotinic receptor. With administration of a dose for weeks, it seems tolerance to possibly MDMA but especially amphetamines can be almost completely reversed. I read at least one report of someone with a high MDMA tolerance who completely reversed it to low tolerance with memantine. When reading the topic about it, it seems it can almost not have side-effects when you don't dose too high, and it definitely works to some extent.
I want this material soooooo bad, but I can't obtain it (it''s a precription drug for Alzheimer I think).

Read more here:
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/archive/index.php/t-501875-p-5.html
 
This is the second combination subthread, this time for Stimulant type drugs such as amphetamine and MDMA.


Methamphetamine, amphetamine sulphate, Adderall (a dextroamphetamine saccharate, dextroamphetamine sulfate, racemic amphetamine aspartate monohydrate, and racemic amphetamine sulfate mix), Dexedrine (Dextroamphetamine sulphate) and other classic amphetamines will be the main discussion because they are the most tested and are "safer", but RC stimulants such as 4-FA, MPA, MDPV, a-PVP and other new chemicals may be discussed as well.

Be warned however, as these new RCs are untested and often contain adulterants. You take it upon yourself to look up all interactions before hand and always take extreme caution when combining unresearched drugs.



Cocaine and MDMA could also be discussed, but due to it's unique interaction with MDMA it may deserve it's own thread. Methylphenidate has the same interaction, as does any other dopamine/serotonin/norepinephrine re-uptake inhibitor.





Combining MDMA with amphetamine has been shown to be GREATLY more neurotoxic than taking MDMA or meth/amphet alone, as a large amount of MDMA induced damage to the brain is caused my dopamine related free radicals in the brain entering and destroying serotonin axons/dendrites


Showing that MDMA damage is caused by oxidative stress and free radicals:
The mechanism proposed for this apparent neurotoxicity involves the induction of oxidative stress. This stress results from an increase in free radicals and a decrease in antioxidants in the brain. (Shankaran, 2001)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_MDMA_on_the_human_body
Click to expand...

Showing that Meth (other amphetamines are extremely similar) also causes this same damage:
Overall, the results illustrate that METH increases pro-oxidant processes and offer supportive evidence that METH produces oxidative damage.
http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/287/1/107.long
Click to expand...


Using common sense, we can infer that the two together is going to be MUCH harder on the brain and body than either drug alone. That is shown here:

CONCLUSIONS. These results suggest that MDMA and METH in combination may have greater adverse acute effects (head-weaving, body temperature) and long-term effects (decreased social interaction, increased emergence anxiety, dopamine depletion) than equivalent doses of either drug alone.
http://www.erowid.org/references/refs_view.php?ID=6362
Click to expand...





So, it's a DAMN neurotoxic combo. But there is a reason why it is so bad for you... it feels DAMN good! I'd be lying if I didn't say I didn't really used to like this combo... but it caused an untold amount of damage to my brain and I don't think I'll ever touch it again.


If you do decide to use this combo, dose slightly lower than your normal MDMA dose (say 120mg instead of 150mg) and dose VERY low on the speed. I would never go over 25mg of amphetamine and 15mg of methamphetamine... less is more with this combo. Speed is a very strong drug, and even small amounts will give you the energy you're looking for.





Good luck and happy tweaking ;) Post any experiences and questions here!
 
No haha, actually the MDMA and methamphetamine abuse led to a very serious speed addiction and I had to basically swear off the stuff forever. I haven't touched meth or any other amphetamine for going on 7 months.

I did try 4-FA, but it had the same tweaked out feeling and brought back all the old cravings. Honestly amphetamines are the Devil's drug and I recommend everyone to stay far away from them... however just because I don't like something doesn't mean there shouldn't be discussion on how to do it safely :)
 
Damn straight meth+MDMA is pure insane euphoria - literally the best stimulant combo I found, you can get that super munted fucked up feeling without being floored and have tons of energy. I used to tear up when dancing on that combo. By far best thing ever.

Neurotoxicity from meth+MDMA on the other hand.... Well I also no longer use that combo anymore. Its not just more neurotoxic from the extra dopamine by products tearing apart your serotonin network but you heat up substantially more than either of the two alone which has been shown to add to neurotoxicity. If you do happen to do it, limit yourself because its a perfect recipe for one of those horror long term comedowns not to say you wont but its high possibility than MDMA alone. I also find it makes the roll longer, moreso that I find the meth keeps going whilst the MDMA wears off I dont experience any comedown from the MDMA really moreso the meth overrides it.

Stock up on antioxidants, keep doses low, stay hydrated and cool is my only advice from it. Bring extra underwear too because it is insanely euphoric lol

I also find doing meth sepertaely from the MDMA, as in dose the meth smoke it or eat it - eating is much better for it although I used to smoke it then drop 2-3 hours in is nothing like a methy mdma pill.
 
This is a really interesting thread. Do you think there is much of a cross tolerance between amphetamine(s) and MDMA? I sometimes wish that MDMA put a little bit more pep in my step (although the empathy/tactile sensations are still superb), but I think that from my years in the field that I have just become accustom to the more stimulating sensations that MDMA can provide.

Actually ED, do you think I might add some extra physical energy to my next MDMA experience by adding 25-30mg of amphetamine? While I love relaxing on my couch thinking inwardly, I also would love to get up and boogie a bit more than my usual. Thoughts?
 
Personally, I recommend a 5 hour energy over any other stimulant. It's not just the caffeine, but the complex B vitamins and other nutrients give your body the fuel it needs to make energy on it's own. It will "put some pep in your step" like you say and avoid any unneeded neurotoxicity. It really will work wonders, you ought to give it a chance before you resort to something as drastic as amphetamine to stay up


Otherwise, what kind of amphetamine do you mean?

I don't recommend meth, it's FUCKING ADDICTIVE. So good, but so addictive.
Adderall and MDMA is pretty shitty IMO, adderalls mix of 4 amphetamine adds on a LOT more peripheral side effects than the others
Dextro-amphetamine and MDMA is the best, but it can be hard to come by in the States.
4-FA and similar RC amphetamines show some promise, but as stated they are untested and you should be wary of them
 
If I were to mix with methamphetamine, it would be an extremely low dose. Like 5mg methamphetamine to 125mg MDMA, both taken orally.

By amphetamine I mean amphetamine paste, which IMO feel much cleaner than pharmaceutical formulations of racemic amphetamine.

The 5 hour energy could be a good idea Folley, but I am very caffeine sensitive. I tweak more from caffeine than say MDPV, Lol. Still a really viable option tho.
 
thinking about doing mdma + cocaine at rave! good idea?

So im thinking about doing 2 doses of good mdma tested! plus small doses of cocaine to stay awake! is this a good mix?
 
No. It's not a good idea.


MDMA and cocaine almost directly cancel each other out when taken together. This is because MDMA releases dopamine (among other things), and cocaine inhibits the re-uptake of dopamine. This causes them to "fight" one another for control of your brain, and as a result you get almost nothing out of both drugs. Some people have success taking coke before or after rolling, but taking them at the same time seems to be a very bad idea.
 
sweet busto said:
So im thinking about doing 2 doses of good mdma tested! plus small doses of cocaine to stay awake! is this a good mix?
Click to expand...

No one can recommend this as safe mixing two hard drugs is plain stupid. It will probably be an enjoyable high and safe but that is disrespect to your body, I would save the MDMA for at home meditation and relaxation and use slight amount of coke at the show... Or else Insufflate the MDMA only at the rave this will most likely keep you awake longer than ingesting it. I would also use it throughout the night not all at once.
 
The general consensus it that the two cancel each other out. Take one or the other but not both.

You should have no trouble staying awake if you are on mdma and up dancing.
 
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