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Dissociatives [Ketamine Subthread] Ketamine as an Anti-Depressant

Foreigner

Foreigner

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Mar 18, 2009
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I've been reading a lot of recent studies about the potential of ketamine as an anti-depressant and I'm interested in trying it for this purpose. I sometimes get terribly depressed in the winter time because my location doesn't get a lot of sun for many months. I do exercise, eat well, have enough social interaction, etc. but I still need a more surefire method, and I am very uncomfortable about taking more mainstream pharmaceuticals for the winter blues.

Has anyone here used K in a medicinal way before to treat depression? If so, what dosing level (light, medium, heavy) did you use to accomplish this? Was there addiction potential? How often did you need to do it to maintain feelings of wellness? What was your ROA?
 
Some have found ketamine is an effective anti-depressant, though I've also experienced the same with safer substances such as acid and mushrooms, or you may want to consider salvia. The addiction potential of ketamine is high, especially, I'm pretty sure, with the frequency you'd need to do it to keep the effects consistent. Doubly so again if you're using it to treat depression. If you feel low often enough, it can get mighty tempting.

Good luck with the depression. I've often been tempted to use psychedelics to self-medicate. So far I've kept away from both that and pharmaceuticals, but I know I'd prefer an acid trip once a week to scoffing two pills a day that might be placebos, fuck up my body and leave me in an emotionless haze.
 
Best bet is if you can get a source to sort you a small amount out every now and then but you wil get reliant on it, panic and try and buy big amounts of it.
 
I encourage you to search out Jamshyd's reports on his use of the compound to treat such. There has been little replication of similar dosing schedules in the clinical research, but I believe this due mainly to a priori biases influencing expectancies of what may or may not prove effective with a history of comparison to anaesthetic dosing in clinical settings. Basically, the clinical research has mostly involved higher doses with more infrequent administration.

I have tried his dosing schedule on myself, with great success and few side-effects. I will grant that my depression was mostly due to my life-situation having gone awry, but I was also in a position where I couldn't change my situation for a few months, and ketamine transformed me from spending a few hours in bed each morning fearing the day and then resenting going through the motions for the rest to mild optimism and functional activity. Basically, the idea is to maintain a threshold dose throughout waking hours for a few days (3-4). There is some downstream neurological effect that causes abatement of depression (well, this is likely due to increase AMPAnergic activity in response to persistent NMDA antagonism, and subsequent increased BDNF synthesis leading to increased neural plasticity in the hippocampus and PFC). For me, this was snorting 10-12 mg every ~1.5 hours while awake while holding off on dosing during my few hours of in-person professional engagements (even though the level of impairment was on the level of 1.5 beers, I couldn't really be at all "fucked up" teaching in front of students). People who are play with needles (I don't) can dose with less.

My mood brightened (beyond mere dissociation) after ~7 hours. It felt natural. At the 7 hr. point, I just noticed while walking around outside that I just felt "ok" and "kind of optimistic". I stopped dosing after 3 days. My mood remained similarly bright for about 2 weeks. After that, I went through the regimen again, and it maintained its effect for a similar period. Side effects included mild insomnia for the first 2 days and attenuation of sense of taste (food was pretty 'meh').

It's pretty easy to discriminate between use of this regimen and getting high enough to escape one's gloom. As a caveat, I'll note that dissociatives are far from my recreational drug of choice; I'm just kind of neutral toward the high that they yield, so I was not really in danger of escalating abuse, as I would have been with, like, opioid or stimulant 'therapy'.

ebola
 
I get sad, too, during the winter. I'm using 5htp and maca root at the moment. 1 teaspoon maca root with breakfast and 1 x 150mg 5htp an hour before bed.

I like the sound of low doses of such drugs as K, lsd, salvia, for depression, but I'd have trouble affording such amounts over such a prolonged period. That's why I've opted for the supps - they're cheaper, easily available, and they're working for me right now.

Hope you find something that will suffice. :)
 
I use ketamine once weekly, not very often more than once, IV and in sparingly small doses. I have IVd large amounts searching for a not to be found Ketamine euphoria. IME 50mg IV'd keeps me in a empathonogenic state of mind for the week following. Just my .02 tho.
 
Very interesting read @ebola?.

I just did the same with MXE, well in fact i dosed a low recreational dose every day for 5 days, on one day i took a miniscule amount of 3-MeO-PCE instead of my MXE dose, and for now, it works.

Have you noticed a permanent change in mood after doing this therapy or was it just temporarily?
 
MXE is probably a safer option if you were planning on doing using a dissosiative for its anti depressive qualities. I have noticed that in even extreemly depressed individuals dxm, ketamine, and MXE seems to lift that temperaraly. Unfortunitly I knew a guy who suffered from depression that looked to dxm to lift his mood and ended up becoming addicted and eventually completly insane from prolonged dxm sigma. It took him years to bounce back into reality.
 
dextrodoctor said:
MXE is probably a safer option if you were planning on doing using a dissosiative for its anti depressive qualities. I have noticed that in even extreemly depressed individuals dxm, ketamine, and MXE seems to lift that temperaraly. Unfortunitly I knew a guy who suffered from depression that looked to dxm to lift his mood and ended up becoming addicted and eventually completly insane from prolonged dxm sigma. It took him years to bounce back into reality.
Click to expand...

^i would not reccomend MXE i've heard its easier on the bladder and such but no one really knows anything about its prolonged use. and the MXE thread here i think is a testament to how addictive it is. i have a few friends that put a bit too much up their nose, its can be a very nasty drug, all that aside it does feel wonderful.... probably why i don't/shouldn't seek it out that often.
 
The anti-depressant effects of Ket, Mxe etc do appear (from what I've read here & with a little personal experience) to outlast the psychoactive effects of the drug by some days, meaning that perhaps in the case the OP could use Ketamine less often than daily, reducing the likelihood of reliance & addiction. It's also been reported that when Ket is used for depression it is use in such small doses that no other psychological effects are felt...

Certainly, many other accepted, standard drug treatments for deprssion are addictive or habit-forming.
 
OGKooosh said:
^i would not reccomend MXE i've heard its easier on the bladder and such but no one really knows anything about its prolonged use. and the MXE thread here i think is a testament to how addictive it is. i have a few friends that put a bit too much up their nose, its can be a very nasty drug, all that aside it does feel wonderful.... probably why i don't/shouldn't seek it out that often.
Click to expand...

I strongly agree to ONLY try with Ketamine, not MXE.

Ketamine has plenty of research backing this therapeutical results, and plenty usage in medicine today. Don't mess with something that can fuck you up seriously in long term. Like said above, MXE is really addictive. I have seen personality changing in friends and not for good. Trust me, you dont want to be arrogant dissociated prick, life will not be fair to you.
 
I already have a sun lamp. I don't find that it really works. It's not just the lack of light but it's also the constant low air pressure and the hanging, stagnant clouds in the sky. I'm one of those people who is just really affected by low pressure weather. I've done many, many different natural regimens and they're mostly temporary. I need to try something a little less conventional. I have recreational experience with K. I enjoyed it a lot and had many breakthroughs, but never got addicted. I also felt good in the days after but at the time did not attribute it to a medicinal effect.

I do LSD about a once a month in a moderate to heavy dose, but I find it very involved and it usually takes me days to recover from using it. Same with mushrooms. Although there is a latent easing of consciousness and higher levels of novelty/creativity, my physical body feels spent. I've tried doing sub-threshold doses but it just doesn't work. I need the full on LSD experience and that always comes attached to catabolic hangovers.

Thanks for the info everyone, especially ebola?. I'm going to read up on jamyshd's thread. It seems that the key to success is to avoid abuse and treat it as a medicine instead of getting high. I can handle that given my profession, and also I seem to have low addiction potential anyway. I'm also very relieved to see he endorses IM injection. Going the IV route would be completely new territory for me and tbh I don't think I want to go there. I've done IM before and the procedure is non-offensive.

K is rare where I live but I'm sure with a little investigation I can suss it out. Are there re-agent tests to make sure it's pure? If I start doing this and find it successful I may post my own addendum to jamyshd's post. Seems he hasn't been online in a very long time so I can't really ask him questions.
 
It's crap telling people only trying it with K. Doing low dosed MXE for some prolonged period (let's say 5 days) is surely not worse than doing K in the same timeframe. Neither K nor MXE are "good" at all when taking them day after day, but i think it doesn't do much of a difference, even though K is more researched.

Even K is not completely researched, as many other common meds. People that actually change from continued dosing over(ab)use MXE, it has nothing to do with the substance per se. The MXE B&D features many weird people and some trainwrecks too, but also many decent people, with lots of knowledge and intellect.
 
It's crap telling people only trying it with K. Doing low dosed MXE for some prolonged period (let's say 5 days) is surely not worse than doing K in the same timeframe.
Click to expand...

We don't know whether it's worse or better, as methoxetamine is simply newer and less tested. MXE's activity at SERT will certainly complicate the picture, but its long duration should make therapeutic regimens more manageable. But given just how new MXE is, we really have no idea.

ebola
 
Although I personally believe that drugs with longer actions are less likely to produce compulsion, & even though mxe does last much longer than Ket & can be used in smaller doses, I would agree that because of it's very short history of human use it shouldnt be recomended in these sort of cases. Not yet anyway.

It's possible to assume that the increased duration of action with mxe & it's low dose threshold actually makes it a greater danger to the bladder & urinary system generally. Such assumptions aren't clever but I'd rather assume in the safe direction rather than in the unsafe direction.

Does the op get much excercise? How about diet? Alcohol intake? Changes in this direction might help with mood, combined with a SAD light. Also, if one particular light doesn't work, don't be discouraged from trying other bulbs or brands. Those crappy little battery operated, desk-top ones ain't much good but the proper full-spectrum bulbs that replace normal bulbs are much better. Concentrating on music in a dark studio, I can manage sometimes only as little as 5 or 6 hours before fatigue sets in. Using a day-light simulating 100 watt bulb in the studio doubles my work-time!
 
ebola? said:
We don't know whether it's worse or better, as methoxetamine is simply newer and less tested. MXE's activity at SERT will certainly complicate the picture, but its long duration should make therapeutic regimens more manageable. But given just how new MXE is, we really have no idea.

ebola
Click to expand...

I know what you mean, but why does SERT activity complicates the picture? Most antidepressants work trough SERT activity.
 
ebola? said:
I encourage you to search out Jamshyd's reports on his use of the compound to treat such. There has been little replication of similar dosing schedules in the clinical research, but I believe this due mainly to a priori biases influencing expectancies of what may or may not prove effective with a history of comparison to anaesthetic dosing in clinical settings. Basically, the clinical research has mostly involved higher doses with more infrequent administration.

I have tried his dosing schedule on myself, with great success and few side-effects. I will grant that my depression was mostly due to my life-situation having gone awry, but I was also in a position where I couldn't change my situation for a few months, and ketamine transformed me from spending a few hours in bed each morning fearing the day and then resenting going through the motions for the rest to mild optimism and functional activity. Basically, the idea is to maintain a threshold dose throughout waking hours for a few days (3-4). There is some downstream neurological effect that causes abatement of depression (well, this is likely due to increase AMPAnergic activity in response to persistent NMDA antagonism, and subsequent increased BDNF synthesis leading to increased neural plasticity in the hippocampus and PFC). For me, this was snorting 10-12 mg every ~1.5 hours while awake while holding off on dosing during my few hours of in-person professional engagements (even though the level of impairment was on the level of 1.5 beers, I couldn't really be at all "fucked up" teaching in front of students). People who are play with needles (I don't) can dose with less.

My mood brightened (beyond mere dissociation) after ~7 hours. It felt natural. At the 7 hr. point, I just noticed while walking around outside that I just felt "ok" and "kind of optimistic". I stopped dosing after 3 days. My mood remained similarly bright for about 2 weeks. After that, I went through the regimen again, and it maintained its effect for a similar period. Side effects included mild insomnia for the first 2 days and attenuation of sense of taste (food was pretty 'meh').

It's pretty easy to discriminate between use of this regimen and getting high enough to escape one's gloom. As a caveat, I'll note that dissociatives are far from my recreational drug of choice; I'm just kind of neutral toward the high that they yield, so I was not really in danger of escalating abuse, as I would have been with, like, opioid or stimulant 'therapy'.

ebola
Click to expand...

Appreciate the report!

You mentioned that clinical trials use higher doses with less frequency. That's technically correct, but I wanted to point out that trials also use relatively low doses (0.5 mg/kg or 35 mg for a 70 kg person) and only single infusions have been studied. The dose is infused intravenously over 1 hour, so we're talking less than 1 mg per minute...that's by no means a heavily intoxicating dose. I just want to make sure nobody goes k-holing under the impression that research has shown that it's good for depression.

I've also noticed an anti-depressant effect with ketamine when I'm feeling a mild case of the blues, but I've never tried to be systematic with my dosing schedule (or even done more than a few doses in a row). On the other hand, I've also noticed that I feel a bit flat emotionally the day after ketamine, particularly if I am dosing on the higher end.
 
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