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The Hungry Ghost

opium

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 15, 2012
Messages
523
A wise person on the forum named Herbavore, recently explained to me the idea of a hungry ghost..and it got me thinking
Hungry ghost is a Western translation of Chinese 餓鬼 (èguǐ), a concept in Chinese Buddhism and Chinese traditional religion representing beings who are driven by intense emotional needs in an animalistic way.

The Chinese concept is related to the preta in Buddhism more generally.

These beings are "ghosts" only in the sense of not being fully alive; not fully capable of living and appreciating what the moment has to offer.

The English term has often been used metaphorically to describe the insatiable craving of an addict.[1]

The english translation basically is, a hungry ghost is an addict..they have a hole in them that they wish to fill, because they have lost something, or crave something, so they fill the hole with drugs.
I Am A Hungry Ghost

But what if that hole cant be filled?

Like a father that was never there
Or a girlfriend you dont have
Or physical and emotional abuse you will never forget
Or the lack of acceptance
Or never being good enough
OR any other thing that someone craves, or dosent have and wishes to acquire?


So if that hole is impossible of being filled......what does that mean? :?
 
If it is impossible then we are destined to crave eternally. We can choose to fill the void with drugs or better ourselves.

The hungry ghost concept reminds me of a quote by Bukowski that says those who lose all mind are soul, insane. The void causes us insanity and leads us to become the soul/self which is chaos "primal emotion."

We need other people to be happy, and this is something that has taken me a long time to figure out. And I'm finding better ways to fill the void; quite frankly it's more exciting to be sober, and a bit more challenging.
 
seems like youve got it figured out man.. and the way you said it seems to shed light on the opposite side of the arguement about the 'void' and what can be done with it..makes sense
 
One of the best books I have ever read about addiction is called In The Realm of Hungry Ghosts by Gabor Maté. it is a very compassionate look at addiction and the horrible way that society chooses to look at it and "treat" it. My brother almost lost his life to this disease and my son did. They both have spoken about the feeling of a hole, or sense of needing more, that simply could not be filled. Unlike many people's stories on here they both had loving families, praise growing up and had the advantage of being outwardly confident and handsome. Yet both of them described a feeling from as far back as they could remember that something was different in them and they internalized a very deep shame about that difference even though it was unnameable. I think when people have an obvious external reason to turn to addiction(being bullied, gay, abused, abandoned) that is something we can all understand. When it happens to people that seemingly have it easy it is harder to understand. The Buddhist concept of the Hungry Ghost is exactly what my brother and my son described--the deeply personal feeling that they could never fill the existential hole within.

My favorite thing about the Buddhist concept of the hungry ghost is that the cure is compassion. Kindness to oneself and others. It sounds ridiculously simple and almost trite but it isn't. Doing little thoughtful things for others is certainly compassion but it goes so much deeper. Compassion for yourself is the hardest thing to practice. It doesn't mean excusing harmful acts or deceptive thinking, it means acceptance of yourself with all your faults and weaknesses and failings as well as your strength and beauty.

Opium, my feeling about that hole is that you have to go all the way down in it until you can't even see anymore; you have to go by feel and you have to go alone. You explore it, you tell it it will have no power over you once you map it out, get to know it, find the boundaries of it. Then you get to come out the other side of it, turning it from a hole into a tunnel leading to a very peaceful place. You have had a lot of terrible things happen to you in your young life. I am really sorry to hear so much of what you have already endured; but you can use the strength you got from being a survivor to summon the courage to confront the hungry ghost inside. Once you conquer the need for acceptance and self-worth and even love to come from outside you, and you start giving it to yourself, all of the sudden it starts pouring in from all sides. It's weird but it works out that way.

The thing is you are good enough--you just have not been taught to see it. You are rubbing up against some powerful institutions that are telling you you are a fuck up. Don't listen to them! (I'm talking about school and the courts here). When you let the dominant culture's narrow view of success define you (at any age), you give all your power away. You lose your imagination, your creativity and your spirit is starved. It is not easy growing up in the world today. So much is against what we really need while so much is dedicated to what we don't need. But don't be discouraged. There are people all over this planet who are defining life and success and who they are according to higher principles. At any given time in any circumstance from a cell to a mansion you can claim your own mind as your own.

<3

P.S. I love your "location"=D
 
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im the second one...probs should spend less time on bl or more out in the real world...

good luck with the addiction opium! and yeh herbs gotta be one of the best people on bl...nothing but positive vibes!!! <3

you could say your location and opiums name go hand in hand...opium dreaming
 
“That which we express will be our salvation. That which we repress will destroy us.”
~ St. Thomas

You are not a hungry ghost, Opium. The "hole" fills itself naturally, as the cravings leave, IME.

Ask: what do you want. Then rationalize with the answer received. Maybe my "ghost" wants opium...but what could be, and has been the repercussion for making such a choice?

Then ask: what do I need/want to fill that empty place.
 
But what if that hole cant be filled?

Like a father that was never there
Or a girlfriend you dont have
Or physical and emotional abuse you will never forget
Or the lack of acceptance
Or never being good enough
OR any other thing that someone craves, or dosent have and wishes to acquire?

All these things are difficult to deal with, but all can be dealt with.
Let's take the example of abuse, since it is one of the hardest on your list, if not the hardest of all, and I will discuss my own history.

I was abused emotionally and (borderline) physically as a child.
I spent my early 20's trying to forget it.
By my late 20's, I began to deal with it.
I spent my early 30's focused on dealing with it.
After enough effort and time, I dealt with it.
Finally, after more than 5 years of therapy and intensive self-work, in one tremendous act, summoning up all my courage, I called my mother on the phone, as she was headed into the surgery room, and forgave her for everything.
100%. Finished.
I felt like I lost 20 pounds that minute. That was several years ago, and I never gained it back.

I could have held on to the abuse forever, if I had wanted to.
Many people do.
It gives them a certain power, to have been abused.
They, and others, feel that they somehow "deserve" special treatment.
They can relate to people via this wound. "You have been abused, too?"
They don't want to get rid of it.
They define themselves in this way.

I didn't want to be like that. I wanted to be healed.
So I found a way to forgive everything, and I moved on.

My father was almost never there. It hurt. I forgave him, and moved on.
I didn't want that suffering to be part of my life for longer than necessary.

Everything on your list is NOT a hole that cannot be filled.
People might not see a way to fill them immediately, since it takes time and effort.
People might not want to fill them, since they derive some benefits from holding on to them.
But, if you want to fill them, they are all fillable.

Addiction is also a nasty one. No doubt.
But, like the others, it is a fillable hole.
It takes effort and time, and invariably some suffering will be involved.
But suffering is involved with maintaining an addiction as well.
And, surviving an addiction, and getting rid of it, is an incredible challenge that will make you an incredible person.
Incredible people aren't born that way. They get that way because they go through incredible things.
They go through incredible suffering, and emerge on the other side.
That is the path to true power. The only path.

Always remember: you have the power to do it.
Be relentless in pushing toward your goals.
If you suffer a setback, don't give up and start using again.
Be strong, and patient, and you will get where you want to be.

<3
 
I could have held on to the abuse forever, if I had wanted to.
Many people do.
It gives them a certain power, to have been abused.
They, and others, feel that they somehow "deserve" special treatment.
They can relate to people via this wound. "You have been abused, too?"
They don't want to get rid of it.
They define themselves in this way.


<3

Absolutely, our negative emotions can become a 'comfort blanket' of sorts.
 
thank you herbavore..when you first brought up the hungry ghost it really made sense. and it made me rethink my whole life lol...amazing how one phrase can trigger so many different things.. in a good way though. And i dont know if i ever got the chance to say, im also sorry for what you've been through. Your son was probably a great kid <3

and slim, see when you say you were also abused, it automatically makes me feel like i can relate to you.. even though i maybe cant. but in my mind, anyone who has been through what i have, are someone i have something in common with..and maybe thats how i find acceptance is by relating to other people via my wounds, which even saying that sounds unhealthy as fuck.

And sadly my location is real talk cause im too paranoid to put up a real location hahah :D
 
Absolutely, our negative emotions can become a 'comfort blanket' of sorts.
Exactly..it seems whenever i get caught with drugs, or am on a binge, or breakup with a girl..its always "Wasnt my fault, i have a problem" Or when id get in trouble at school itd be the old "Fuck you, you dont know what ive been through"
Just excuses so i didnt have to take responsibility for my own shit..which isnt cool on my part. Even though i recognize all this, easier said than fixed
 
I have been involved with Buddhism for many years and have lived in monasteries. The concept of the Hungry Ghost was taught to me as a non-human life you can be born into on the Wheel of Life, as a result of negative karma accumulated in a previous life. The karma usually relates to greed (one of the three poisons, along with anger and ignorance) and a constant feeling of dissatisfaction. Hungry Ghosts suffer from constant hunger and thirst, but they have thin necks so they can never really consume anything; in their sort of hell dimension, they see mirages of water but once they go to them they disappear or turn to urine.

After living a Hungry Ghost life (or several, depending), your negative karma is expended and you are born into a higher life, like a human. According to Buddhism, suffering is due to past negative karma ripening. Once the suffering is complete the negative karma is purified. Of course, they also suggest that doing the proscribed meditations, sutras, and ritual practices can also purify your karma.

Here is an image of the wheel of life: http://mingwalk.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/wheeloflife.jpg

The top three are "good karma" lives: human, demi-God, and God.
The bottom three are "bad karma" lives: animal, hungry ghost, and hell.

The middle shows a rooster, a snake, and a pig, representing ignorance, anger, and greed. Those three things govern the ascent or descent into various lives. According to buddhism, the goal is not to rise up the chain, but to exit it altogether so that you're never reborn. Again, according to Buddhism, a human life is the most ideal for reaching Nirvana because it has the perfect mix of suffering and sentience. Demi-Gods live a very long time, mostly in jealousy of the Gods, and then their good karma is all expended. Gods live extravagantly long lives in paradise but also eventually die and then come back as lesser forms. Animals, while generally harmless, cannot learn spiritual teachings, and in the hell lives there is so much suffering that Dharma cannot be learned.

The most important thing you can garner from the Wheel is that each kind of life has a Boddhisatva in it who can teach you the way out, it's just that human lives are the best equipped to actually learn. I also like the idea that hell is not a permanent place but one where you end up to resolve certain lessons, before moving on again.




I have a few problems with this philosophy though, which is why I am no longer a strict Buddhist.

1) Addicts in human form are not hungry ghosts. They are still human and therefore have the chance to change for the better. According to Buddhism, the hungry ghosts inhabit another realm that is very close to the human one, which is why spirits who are unresolved can appear to some humans. (The Heart Sutra is often used to dispel restless spirits.)

2) I have done a lot of research into reincarnation and past lives, including the modern psychotherapy technique of past life regression, and no one ever reports having lived a non-human life before this one. Yes, there are lives where they suffer more (like in medieval times) but they have always been human. Human birth is not rare if you are human now - it's the usual.

3) I wouldn't consider being an animal to be a hell life. I find animals pretty sentient, but my belief is that humans are a different soul group than the other animals on this planet, which is why we tend to keep being born as human and not as animals.

4) The wheel is a tool of fear to make you choose Buddhism for your salvation. Don't want to end up in a hell life, now do we?

5) The philosophy is too literalist. If you look at it as a metaphor for THIS life, it makes a lot more sense. If you're living in hell you can get out of it. If you're living in paradise, it's not bound to last and you can't take anything with you when you die. Regardless of how they are living, people are ultimately going to have to confront their spiritual nature, which is why help is always there once you do.
 
^All good information and good points, Foreigner.

I have often characterized myself as a crow. When I see something shiny I pick it up and bring it back to my nest. The term Hungry Ghost is one of those shiny things; I learned it long after my brother and son had described their feelings to me and it seemed to fit so I picked it up and flew off with it. (I was first introduced to the term in this very non-religious sense in Gabor Maté's book). So the term has been appropriated from the strict Buddhist understanding of the word to characterize a spiritual longing as well as addiction. I hope I don't offend anyone who is Buddhist when I say that although I have found more wisdom in the philosophy that comes from Buddhism, as a religion it leaves me as cold as any other religion. Like all religion it uses fear. Since I think fear is generally at the root of most of our stumbling as a species, I reject it as a tool of motivation. I appreciate the ideas in Buddhism because they make me think. I have a habit of turning everything from dogma to metaphor and that's what I've done with Buddhist teaching as well. As metaphor I find it very beautiful.

I do think there is a place of crossover between the concept as it has been co-opted by modern philosophers and practicioners of mindfulness and traditional Buddhists and that is that the antidote to being a hungry ghost is realizing your true nature which is pure compassion. If we take the strict Buddhist idea of being born into the life of a Hungry Ghost and turn it into a metaphor it is easy to apply in this situation (addiction). Rather than reincarnation we could see it as the many lives you live in your one lifetime. After all, we are reborn many times over in this short stay. We work out the past in the present continually--as slimvictor's story so beautifully captured. His story also so perfectly illustrates the healing power of forgiveness (again, compassion for the self and the person that wronged you).

This is a great conversation and I'm really enjoying it. Thank you so much opium for starting it!<3
 
i love to learn new things. foreigner that is very informative. i was thinking of practicing Buddhism, because at this point in time i have no religion. and in AA they say you need to find a higher power in one form or another, to follow after for guidance. No offense to any other religion, i just could never wrap my head around the catholic religion that was practiced in my household. Like herbavore said, the fear they use of hell if you break any commandments, yet they have had many 'holy crusades' which were mass genocides all in the name of god. Just looking for a religion that fits me, if there is at all. and i agree many of the philosophies of Buddhism are very easy to relate to, and bring understanding of every day circumstances and situations..

and yes i agree we live many lives in our one stay on earth, thats why we can have many careers, re-invent ourselves as anything we want, and pursue any road we wish to travel. I also think that some things like the hungry ghost could be implanted in us, as maybe a void where your soul would be, or as a part of it. Making you more susceptible to some of the things that the trait would offer. Like how some people are more susceptible to addiction, and then there could be someone who could smoke cigarettes for 2 weeks, then stop because they feel like it. Addictive and non-addictive personalities. Maybe genetics, or maybe from a past life where we have done wrong, and now we have a weak spot for this certain thing built into our spiritual make-up.
All of these are just my thoughts..could be complete bullshit for all i know haha, just thoughts.

but thank you guys for all this information, i'm learning a lot..i also really enjoy this conversation :)
 
having a religious preference is not required to have a connection with god, or understanding of spirituality. after a while, the similarities become kind of stark too, and you can find your place amongst them all.

sometimes i use a rosary, sometimes i use a mala, sometimes i just use my fingers, touching them to my thumb one at a time, while saying something or only taking a breath.
 
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lol i think i catch your drift..and yeah thats true. i just always thought itd be easier to have a set religion like most normal people
 
Great Thread! ;)

Gut starved.<3

What is intuition?

(Taken from here:http://www.trans4mind.com/jamesharveystout/intuitio.htm)


NSFW:
~It's awareness. Intuition considers all relevant factors in a situation, even the factors which we do not know consciously. These factors can include the needs of the people (including their thoughts, emotions, physical body, and archetypal-field elements), the needs of objects (including inanimate objects, such as a car about which our intuition detects a potential problem) -- and generally unknowable elements such as future events, and past-life involvements with the people. This profound quality of awareness is associated with spiritual wisdom.

~It's balance. Intuition is impersonal; it does not favor our advantage at the expense of people around us. Thus, if we follow its guidance, we discover that the result is "for the best of all"; we achieve a "win-win situation" in which we all gain what is possible and proper for us to gain (considering our needs, the available resources, any limitations which have been created by dysfunctional a-field elements, etc.). And so, intuition's balance allows us to perform our activities without creating undue animosity and other friction. This type of detached, "ego-less" action has always been recommended by spiritual leaders; actually, the ego is still present as a legitimate representative of our human self and needs, but it does not dominate.

~It's benevolence and even love. Because our actions are balanced (i.e., non-aggressive), the texture of our behavior resembles that of kindness, good-heartedness, and relationship. This quality inspires people to cooperate with us, and to support us in our endeavors. The "love" is merely the character of the spirit-substance which flows between the souls when we are directed by the spirit-derived intuition.
Its feeling tone. The brief exhilaration which we experience when receiving an intuitive message is somewhat akin to the ecstasy which has been described by mystics who have experienced "enlightenment."

~The information which we receive. We can associate intuition with the soul simply on the basis of the specific ideas which arise; for example, intuition is likely to tell us that "we all have a common spiritual essence" rather than "we are totally separate individuals." Of course, one person's intuitive ideas might be very different from another person's intuitive ideas; for example, someone might say, "I just know that my religion is the only true religion," while someone else says, "I feel certain that there are many paths to spirit." Despite the occurrence of contradictory interpretations of mystical experiences, spiritual teachers generally regard intuition -- in contrast to intellectual knowledge -- as the way in which we can gain spiritual understanding. (These differences might occur because of varying interpretations, or perhaps they occur because the messages are not from intuition at all but are instead originating in our intellect or our charged a-field elements.)
 
^^ I loved that, Asclepius. I especially loved this part:

We can cultivate joie de vivre. When we love life, we develop the qualities which enhance our awareness of intuition: we want to experience more of life; we are curious and alert regarding the people and things around us; we have a light-heartedness which is open and willing and warm and playful; we are self-motivated to pursue our wide range of interests; we like to explore and experiment in new areas of life; we like to interact with people and things (so we are responding to their actions and being creative in our own actions). These traits lead us to cultivate intuition as a way to achieve more pleasure and adventure in life. We discover that intuition is the voice of life itself, and so we trust it and we follow its encouragements.

I like the use of the word "cultivate". Being a gardener I know that growing something takes lots of preliminary work and patience. If you don't prepare the soil you can have the best seed or little plant start in the world and it won't thrive or grow. Likewise with inner changes. You can have an idea or a concept that you would like to adopt mentally but without preparing your mind with openness, acceptance etc and being very patient with yourself as you take the baby steps to get there, it will remain outside your grasp.
 
that was a very good metaphor and way of looking at it.. i can want to be president, but if i dont set up the right choices, and make the right moves then i could never achieve it. no matter how bright, nobody looks at those characteristics anymore. they look at foundation of what you've done, not what you presently have to offer.
i went to an army recruiting office a few weeks ago to take the ASVAB test, and he wanted to know my history. When he found out i was in the process of leaving highschool, he basically told me to go home. And that was the result of me not making the right preparations and setting up the ground work to make a dream happen. I ended up passing the test, but if he hadnt given me the chance, and had just looked at my history, i could of been sent home like any other poorly educated person. Kind of gave me a reality check. dont judge a book by its cover is a dead phrase in todays society
 
I think we create some of those "holes" in our minds. Like when your brain gets used to a chemical and creates extra receptors, and therefore we have tolerance. I think sometimes we have, for lack of a better word, imaginary problems, like not being "smart enough" (for what?) or attractive enough "for whom"). There is no magic pill that will transform you into all of these things, but you can try to accept yourself for who you are. Sometimes when I'm feeling bad about myself, I make a list of like 10 things that I am grateful for or that I like about myself. Sounds lame, I know, but it really does help me. Most of the time, other people don't even notice these so-called flaws we think we have (it's called the "spotlight effect"). Take care!
 
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