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  • Sports & Gaming Moderators: ghostfreak

Cards Poker (Texas Hold'em)

^^you made me think of the book "Killer Poker Online". His biggest rule for online play is complete attention to the game at hand :D

In your situation, I probably would have bet the two pair on the flop, expected a bet on the king turn, if it didn't come, possibly bet on the river.
 
^
Oh, I folded the 10-5 before the flop. I would definitely have stayed in till the end if I hadn't done that.

Thanks for the comments.
 
in your first example, simon, you flopped two pair. "what to do" isn't just a function of the cards you have. it's also a function of your stack, everybody else's stack, your position, how everybody else (who's still in the hand) has been playing up to now.

two pairs on the flop is, generally, a very solid hand. depending on other factors, do you want to take it down there and then or milk it a bit and run the risk of somebody else making a better hand.

very generally speaking, when playing for real money, i'll play classic 'tight/aggressive' which nets me smaller pots but i win more frequent pots.

the only thing you can generalise about in poker is that you can't generalise :)

finally, with due respect to thizzSC, bad beat stories are super boring - everybody has loads of bad beats stories and they're never interesting to anybody but the person who got beat :)

alasdair
 
Actually, I'm a retard. I'm pretty sure the flop didn't have a 7 in it. I typed that without thinking - it was just a generic low card.

So I actually had a pair of J. So I had top pair after the flop, unless anyone had been dealt a high pair. Then the K came, meaning anyone with a K had a better pair than me (obviously).
 
you could have just put out a strong feeler bet which you were prepared to lose...

alasdair
 
It really depends on how you think the people are playing. Jack with a seven kick can be dangerous becasue the low kicker. If he called a good sized bet (1/2-1x the pot) he might have a jack also with a higher kick. You have to ask has your opponent been calling a lot of bets? If he is it might be worth betting again, but if he is playing tight I would definantly check when that king hits. It all depends on what you think will work well against your opponent.

Its good to play your cards but at the same time playing your opponent will reap you rewards.

If that makes any sense.
 
Its good to play your cards but at the same time playing your opponent will reap you rewards.
good advice

I've got a couple other questions if ya'll don't mind.

The first is about pot odds. As I understand it, something like an inside straight draw with no over cards has 4 outs. The pot odds on 4 outs is 1:10. This means that if the call amount is that same ratio, it's in one's favor (over the long run) to call. So if there is $100 in the pot and the call is $10, one should go for it every time (unless it appears as though your opponent may have made a better hand). My question is, have I been calculating pot odds correctly?

My second question is more broad... I'm preatty good with statistics (got As through advanced psychological statistics classes in uni) and have been around cards my whole life (not a lot of poker though). My poker history is a big game about three times per year, in which I usually come in top 5 out of 10. Anyhow, I think I can get good if I keep practicing every day and read every book I can get my hands on.

With that said, I've been getting my ass kicked online for the last couple weeks (since I started) and am wondering how long this can be expected to continue? Were ya'll magically good right when you started playing, or did you experience the same bankroll deficit when you were rookies? How long did it take before you started winning consistently?
 
You basically have the right idea on pot odds. Outs refers to how many cards in the deck will give you the winning hand (ex. inside straight draw 4 outs, open ended straight draw 8 outs, flush draw 9 outs). The number of outs divided by the remaining number of unseen cards will give you the pot odds. Remember to count your opponents cards even if they folded because you do not know what they are. Hope that smoothed a couple things out you had it exactly right except for the 1/10 part.

You can become good poker anyone can. I lost around 600 dollars starting online before I turned into a consistent player. It just takes experience. Once you find your style of play that you are comfortable with things will turn around. My biggest advice is be patient, when you are playing have nothing to distract you no tv no music nothing. Watch and take notes on your opponenets tendancies and if you find yourself getting distracted, second guessing moves you did, quit. And never play to win money back that you lost. That is not the right mindset. You need to think of the game in the long term sense.
 
^^have you checked out any of the books specifically about online poker? The one by John Vorhese (sp?) is quite good and gives the same tips that you just did (among others).

Thanks for the advice on expected bankroll deficencies. 600 seems hard to swallow but I guess one can make that back quick if he/she becomes a consistent winner. How long did it take to win back the 600?
 
If I can make a n00b suggestion: try playing in single table tournaments to start off with. The great advantage of doing that is that you can only lose a small amount of money at a time, but you get to play quite a few hands. The play is still serious, but you're only at risk of losing $5, or whatever the buy-in is.

Maybe it's just me (I seem to play better in tournaments, whether real or play money) but it could work for you.
 
Mehm said:
Thanks for the advice on expected bankroll deficencies. 600 seems hard to swallow but I guess one can make that back quick if he/she becomes a consistent winner. How long did it take to win back the 600?


I lost 600 over the span of about 5 monthes before I really feel like I understood the game enough to make money off of people. Winning it back did not take too long. You have to understand that poker IS a game of swings no matter how much skill involved. The best players will still have strong monthes and bad monthes, you have to be mentally prepared for times where every river will be dropping on you to beat your hand and every time you call you are hitting the second best hand. It just happens.

On low limit tables the profit margin is unpredictable because of the number of unskilled players playing. I usually turn around a 10BB/100 hands profit there on average. When moving up to the higher stake tables the rule of thumb is said to be 5BB/100 profit. The thinking of this is 10BB/100when the cards are dropping for you and minimize your losses to 5BB/100 when they are not hitting.

hope this helps
 
I've been playing in just a local weekly $10 buy-in hold 'em game, nothing big and no rebuys, but I've run across a couple table etiquette issues that struck me as bad form so I thought I'd see what you guys thought.

Top 3 finish in the money (top 4 if over 10 playing) at our game, and both etiquette issues stem from a player getting up from the table after we're already down to (or on the bubble of) the money stage.

1. Last week one of the players decided she had to leave when we were on the bubble. She really hadn't been playing all night...she had been on the phone away from the table most of the time, playing only a few hands, and we had just been blinding/folding her out. We were down to 5 (4 were finishing in the money that night) when she said she was gonna leave, and since she was short stacked she probably would have just blinded out eventually. At that point the host's wife (who hadn't been playing at all, she had just been reading on a nearby couch) asked if we minded if she played out her stack, and none of us really objected. I got kind of a squirrely feeling about it when she asked, but since it was the host's wife I really didn't wanna make an issue of it....but then she hit two monster hands and ended up knocking two of us out, eventually finishing 2nd.

Fortunately I still finished in the money, but one guy kinda got screwed by her playing it out imo...if it had been for higher stakes, I think I would have objected. I know it was pretty much moot since nobody objected and granted, the player who left may have accomplished the same result with the two monster hands she was dealt, but was that bad etiquette in you guys' opinion?

2. This week a similar issue arose when one of the players (a different player than last week) decided just before midnight that she was too tired to continue when we were already down to the money positions. We told her we would just blind her out and let her know where she finished. This time I probably got stung by it (I had popped her several times on her blindstealing attempts, one time big, shortstacking her), finishing 3rd instead of 2nd. After she left I was going head-to-head with the host whose poker skills are clearly superior to mine, so even though my stack was slightly larger starting off h2h I felt my best chance was to take a few calculated risks I probably wouldn't otherwise take. I got popped in a showdown and my stack was then smaller than the player's stack who had left, so at that point I no longer had the option just to blind her out and take 2nd (if I had wanted to play the pussy).

The thing is, the player leaving didn't seem tired at all until I popped her just before a break, but after the 5 minute break she came back saying and playing like she was literally about to fall asleep at the table. Now again, I know that I had the option of just passing on anything but lockdown hands until she blinded out, but imo it's bad form to leave at the money stage and just expect that the others blind you out at that point, since those remaining shouldn't be expected to even have to consider the "do I play for pussy 2nd" issue brought about by the player leaving.

Imo, at the money stage in a friendly game, the shortstacked player should knuckle up and play it out unless a bona fide emergency arises...if it's not an emergency or absolute deadline and the shortstacker still wants to leave, imo he or she should graciously accept the lowest remaining money position so as not to affect the overall tenor of play with the remaining players.

Granted, I was gonna play for the win no matter what, but I still think that's bad form at that stage of the game.

I'm really fairly inexperienced playing offline though, so I don't know if those are commonly occurring situations.

What do you guys think?
 
^^I'd say that taking another player's spot is a bit weird, but not a big deal in the long run. You should have been playing very defensively untill you felt out the new player.

In the second instant, what's the big deal if someone wants to blind out? More free money for you ehh :) Again, I would have recomended defensive play until her stack was gone.
 
Mehm said:
^^I'd say that taking another player's spot is a bit weird, but not a big deal in the long run. You should have been playing very defensively untill you felt out the new player.
Problem was, she survived the first attempt to take out her 40k stack and was no longer shortstacked by the time she hit the second hand against me and the other player. She hit a straight against my all-in trip 10s and his all-in trip 9s, drawing the K on the river to finish her Q J. I finished in the money only because I had the higher bustout hand against his trip 9s.

I don't have as much of a problem with the first situation as I do the 2nd, because by the time it had gotten down to h2h in the first situation the absent ss player would have most likely already been blinded out had her cards not been played, given that there were still 4 live players remaining. And one has to further assume that had the original player played those same hands properly, she also would have popped her opponents. Still, I think it's bad form.

In the second instant, what's the big deal if someone wants to blind out? More free money for you ehh :)
Not necessarily. It all depended on who took each pot between us h2h, and with the bb being 10k and her ss being roughly 60k, shacking up until her stack was gone would probably have conceded at least a 20k chip lead to the stronger player I was up against (if not more since he would have been taking some of my blinds too).

Basically what happened was on the 5th hand after going h2h, I was bb, ss absent player was sb and h2h player went all-in pre-flop. I was still barely ahead in the chip count at that point by about 10k and had drawn A J suited. I gambled that he probably didn't have pocket rockets, at best he probably had a face pair which would admittedly counterfeit my J and put me behind the 8-ball but was most likely trying to steal the blind, so I decided to take my shot and called him. His pocket 10s held up on the crap no-help flop, so that finished me and left me about 15k below the absent player, leaving me no choice but to play the next hand on which I was due to be blinded and on which, naturally, I drew 4 7 suited against his 2 8 unsuited and got no help on the flop...lol.

My overall point though was, had the absent player not left there would have been no "I know I'm up against a stronger player but I can guarantee a 2nd place finish if I essentially concede the game to him and just play the pussy through 6-7 hands to blind her out" issue to consider in the first place. It changed the tenor of the game imo.
 
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another shitty luck story..yeah!!!

I'm playing 3-6 limit and flop top straight, sweet. Someone raises, so I reraised etc. Anyways, we get maximum betting through the turn and there is a ton of money in the pot. Anyhow, the dude hits his full house on the river! ARGHHH. That one hand kicked my bankrolls ass and now I have to get paid again to get back in it. Anyhow, I hope that story didn't bore ya'll too much..better luck next time I guess :)

peace
 
that's why i never play limit - people will play draws and go fishing. by the time it gets to the turn/river, they're always so pot committed, they're never going to fold.

if i can't move chips in to take down a pot when i want, my options are severely limited...

alasdair
 
the thing i love about no-limit is that i can win regardless of how good or bad my cards are. in my experience (and i undertand that's a limited thing) hands in limit poker always come down to the best cards. where's the fun in that?

for me, there's no greater satisfaction in poker than bluffing to take a pot and not showing...

alasdair
 
I love showing to an unstable player when I know he is about to tilt. Playing with a tilting player can be very profitable.
 
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