☛ Official ☚ The Big & Dandy RH-34 Thread

[mozokev]

Hasn't anyone bothered to look at Ralf Heim's dissertation? (Ralf Heim = RH!) OK, it is in German, but the tables are easy to read. RH-34 is a low affinity agonist at 5HT-2a receptors, about 20% that of 2C-B, so based on that it shouldn't be active until about 80-100 mg. Nevertheless, a proper titration is in order. What was interesting about RH-34, of course, is that the 2-methoxybenzyl group made an antagonist (Ketanserin) into an agonist. This led to the preparation of the N-BOMe derivatives of the 2C-Xs, and the rest is history.

Affinity does not equal active dosage, if I'm correct. Perfect example is LSD vs. NBOMe's. LSD has lower affinity for 5HT-2A receptors than NBOMe's but is more potent dose wise.

 

[crOOk]

Buying something with a cut is silly shit brother. And makes the source super not trust worthy. Sell the pure people, let Darwinism take its course.

I still bet this shit sucks.

Assuming I'd buy anything with a cut is just as silly, bro! (See my earlier posts)

Hasn't anyone bothered to look at Ralf Heim's dissertation? (Ralf Heim = RH!) OK, it is in German, but the tables are easy to read. RH-34 is a low affinity agonist at 5HT-2a receptors, about 20% that of 2C-B, so based on that it shouldn't be active until about 80-100 mg. Nevertheless, a proper titration is in order. What was interesting about RH-34, of course, is that the 2-methoxybenzyl group made an antagonist (Ketanserin) into an agonist. This led to the preparation of the N-BOMe derivatives of the 2C-Xs, and the rest is history.

I flew through the whole thing, reading only the parts interesting to me. Affinity alone isn't an indicator on what the substance triggers upon binding to it's target(s). It could have a very high efficacy (e.g. over 100 - triggering a stronger reaction than serotonin itself does), be neutral (antagonists have 0 efficacy) or an extremely low one (negative efficacy - Inverse agonist, triggering a reaction opposed to that triggered by the reference ligand). But you'll know all this very well, having read and comprehended the whole dissertation.

 

[tryp2fun]

I flew through the whole thing, reading only the parts interesting to me. Affinity alone isn't an indicator on what the substance triggers upon binding to it's target(s). It could have a very high efficacy (e.g. over 100 - triggering a stronger reaction than serotonin itself does), be neutral (antagonists have 0 efficacy) or an extremely low one (negative efficacy - Inverse agonist, triggering a reaction opposed to that triggered by the reference ligand). But you'll know all this very well, having read and comprehended the whole dissertation.

Well, since I only had one year of German in school, I obviously could not read and comprehend the whole thing. However, I do teach medicinal chemistry, so I know the difference between affinity and efficacy very well, as well as the role of pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics in drug action. If you look at the affinities of 2C-Xs, DOXs, and the NBOMEs, there is a clear correlation between the relative affinities at 5HT-2a receptors and the drug potency. The DOXs are about 10-fold higher affinity than 2C-xs and the NBOMes are about 20-fold higher affinity. That is pretty close to the dose ratios, since 2C-I is active at about 15-20 mg, DOI at about 1-2 mg, and 25I-NBOMe at 0.5-1 mg. Since the affinity of RH-34 at 5HT-2a receptors is lower than 2C-Xs, it is reasonable from the data above that it will be less potent than the 2C-Xs. Certainly there is no reason to expect it to be active at mcg levels just because it has a 2-methoxybenzyl substituent. The reason that the affinity of LSD at 5HT-2a receptors does not correlate as well with dose is that LSD is a very promiscuous molecule that binds to a wide range of serotonin and dopamine receptors.

 

[crOOk]

Well, since I only had one year of German in school, I obviously could not read and comprehend the whole thing. However, I do teach medicinal chemistry, so I know the difference between affinity and efficacy very well, as well as the role of pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics in drug action. If you look at the affinities of 2C-Xs, DOXs, and the NBOMEs, there is a clear correlation between the relative affinities at 5HT-2a receptors and the drug potency. The DOXs are about 10-fold higher affinity than 2C-xs and the NBOMes are about 20-fold higher affinity. That is pretty close to the dose ratios, since 2C-I is active at about 15-20 mg, DOI at about 1-2 mg, and 25I-NBOMe at 0.5-1 mg. Since the affinity of RH-34 at 5HT-2a receptors is lower than 2C-Xs, it is reasonable from the data above that it will be less potent than the 2C-Xs. Certainly there is no reason to expect it to be active at mcg levels just because it has a 2-methoxybenzyl substituent. The reason that the affinity of LSD at 5HT-2a receptors does not correlate as well with dose is that LSD is a very promiscuous molecule that binds to a wide range of serotonin and dopamine receptors.

Yeah I forgot the whole thing is on German. That is probably why hardly "anyone bothered to look at Ralf Heim's dissertation".

That aside, you are making a good point there. Nonetheless, seeing on one hand that all mentioned molecules for which the 5HT2A affinity is a very strong indicator of psychedelic activity at a given dosage are structurally very closely related phenethylamines, and on the other that the prominent exception is LSD, for which we actually do know various routes through which the psychedelic activity is facilitated that do not involve it's binding to the 5HT2Ar, I don't think your theory can reliably predict if there in fact is any psychedelic activity for a molecule that does have some affinity to 5HT2Ar's and is not closely structurally related to any known psychedelics. Not reliably enough for me not to try the stuff - Not at ug dosages but ultimately at oral and rectal dosages of 100mg (of what I assume to be uncut RH-34).

 

[tamarinds]

insert startrek.facepalm.jpeg

Too many people arleady on this planet. If some dumb fucks are reckless with chemicals and kill themselves. Fuck em, thanks for the lesson, sorry you had to pay the ultimate price. Legistlation against chrms because of deaths sucks, but the law can suck my fat raisin nuts. Fuck it.

If I happen to be one of those people oh fucking well. I use a sub milligran scale and have shit tested and titratd doses. Gonna have to be a real killer to get me.

Ordering 1000mg of supposedly very good synthed RH-34. Will send it to get tested and then will experiment, maybe. May enlist some knowledgable and willing guinea pigs. Definately will do that first. Binding profile is so weird

 

[Solipsis]

Tamarinds, you are quite entitled to your rather misanthropic opinion, but this is a Harm Reduction forum so I'm gonna have to ask you to contain yourself.

Good that you're planning to employ cautionary procedures e.g. analysis and titration, let's focus on that.

 

[tamarinds]

Im in to staying alive and healthy myself. Harm Reduction I take seriously, makes IRL people mad sometimes. Losers. I dont hate humanity, some people just gotta go regardless of how or why. We killing the Earth at an amazing rate.

100ug to 250ug to 500ug to 1000ug and 500ug increments from there is what my death free research team and I where thinking of researching after the results are back; Harm Reduced.

Ill post the NMR once its ran. Bet this chem is a waste of time, gotta get to the bottom of it though

 

[jesuspeople666]

why would anyone call this a [fascinating chemical, when what i know is that not anyone in the world knows what it iis or haven never tried it
just the name "rh-34" sounds insane wierd, i still have my sample untouched,i dont know what to do with it

 

[crOOk]

why would anyone call this a [fascinating chemical, when what i know is that not anyone in the world knows what it iis or haven never tried it
just the name "rh-34" sounds insane wierd, i still have my sample untouched,i dont know what to do with it

At least read the 3 pages of thread, dude.

 

[bloodshed344]

why would anyone call this a [fascinating chemical, when what i know is that not anyone in the world knows what it iis or haven never tried it
just the name "rh-34" sounds insane wierd, i still have my sample untouched,i dont know what to do with it

I called it fascinating because it's fascinating. Amazing that even rustled some of yall, haha.

Honestly, how is it not fascinating? A few structure changes in the right direction and it would be even more psychedelic... there could be some cool compounds that are not really like anything humanity has seen before. and I don't necessarily mean just psychedelics.

 

[SeenSoFar]

Well, I've been curious about this one for a while, and my curiosity has finally got the better of me. I have 5 grams coming from an extremely reliable source. Will be bioassaying this one quite carefully... The possibility of agonism at lots of undesirable targets has me more than a little weary, but for some reason I cannot let this one go. I feel that there is something to it. Keep in mind I do not have a creatine-laden buffed out sample on the way, but rather the pure product. Only time will tell how this one turns out, but something tells me it's a winner. Before anyone warns me, yes, I will tread softly. I have all the right equipment and all the experience necessary to be absolutely prepared to be completely unprepared for the possible effects.

By the way, I have seen some less-than-stellar sources peddling this as a cannabinoid. This is possibly how the accidental smoking mentioned earlier in the thread happened. All I can say to anyone who bought it as a cannabinoid is this: grease up the ol' corn-hole, something's coming to fuck your day!

 

[crOOk]

All I can say to anyone who bought it as a cannabinoid is this: grease up the ol' corn-hole, something's coming to fuck your day!

LOL!

Unless the 10% of that creatine laden sample was something entirely different than RH-34, the stuff ain't worth shit. I removed the creatine monohydrate since it isn't water soluble unlike the alleged RH-34 salt that's contained and yielded very close to 10% of a very bitter tasting, white, water soluble crystalline substance as expected and dosed it up to 200mg rectally and orally if I remember correctly (don't take my word for it, the trials are further up in this thread) and didn't experience any psychedelic effects whatsoever. Good luck to you though, I really wanted this one to be a winner, too. Maybe it wasn't RH-34 at all what was going around, these chinese labs often have a talent for fucking up even the easiest synthesis.

 

[tamarinds]

I am waiting on a third party NMR confirmed sample to arrive. We will see what this RH-34 has hidden. I dont trust the trials posted here. Crook said it himself maybe it wasnt even rh-34.

Dun nun dun dun nun dun dun dun

 

[SeenSoFar]

Excellent! I will have my sample in two days, although who knows when I'll get a chance to assay it. I am very interested in your results. If I may make a recommendation, if oral and rectal ROAs do not produce results, would you consider vapourizing and/or insufflation? Considering that the positive reports I have encountered were all by these two ROAs, I think it's possible that it may not be active orally or rectally. Perhaps there is some condition in the digestive tract that breaks down this particular compound. My assay plan will be to do a dermal allergy test, then start with sub-milligram doses orally. If I reach ~200mg with no alert, I will try buccally/sublingually. If there's still no alert, I will move on to insufflation at the submilligram level. If again I encounter no activity, I will try to vapourize, again starting with submilligram levels. I think that will give us a pretty good idea of what this compound has to offer, if anything.

If this one does turn out to be active, even in a mediocre way, I will be extremely excited, since it will provide a jump-off point for many new compounds (QiHKAL?). You know, when you look at the ring structure, I can see at least one parallel to an indole ring, the nitrogen that is immediadely ajacent to the benzene ring is in the same position in both ring systems. It's not much, but it gives me a fools hope!

 

[SeenSoFar]

Well my sample arrived today. White, fine powder with a VERY unusual odour. Not like the typical weird smelling compounds, this is seriously not like anything I've smelled before. I can't describe it because I have no point of comparison, but when I smelled it I had a very odd feeling soon after that subsided after a few minutes. The feeling was almost like the first alert at the beginning of a psychedelic experience. It manifested as a feeling of electricity up and down my spine. This was most likely just anticipation, but I figured it was worth noting.

I have not examined it too closely, but the powder appears to be very fine without any signs of crystals. Some of it seems to have clumped together into small chunks, but for the most part it is very compact fine powder. I don't know when I will get a chance to assay it, but I am VERY excited. I don't know why, but this has become close to a crusade for me. I just have such a strong feeling about this compound, and I am just hoping that the negative reports that have come around so far are not a foreshadowing of what is to come for me...

 

[psood0nym]

I don't know why, but this has become close to a crucade for me. I just have such a strong feeling about this compound, and I am just hoping that the negative reports that have come around so far are not a foreshadowing of what is to come for me...

Commit as many human atrocities as you need to to find out if this "RH-34" is legit. Or, and this is only if you're feeling up to the task, upload a photo of it, perform analytical tests, etc.

 

[SeenSoFar]

Hmm... Atrocities... Photography... *makes a gesture reminiscent of a pendulum balance* Well... My camera is all the way in the other room... My BROADSWORD on the other hand is right beside me!

In all seriousness though, I will post some photos of the substance, and it's reaction to marquis and mandelin reagents (I've run out of the others) over the next couple days. My camera has decided to go pear-shaped on me, so I will have to do some repairs, and once I do I will get some photos going. I am also going to look into sending some of this for analysis. I will keep you all posted!

EDIT: Unless anyone has any better ideas, I think I will be submitting a sample of this to EcstacyData.org for analysis. Who knows if they'll be able to give me a positive identification, but at least they will provide the GC/MS output if they cannot identify it. This seems to be the best option I have available at the moment, since I no longer have local access to analytical instruments. What are people's thoughts on this idea?

 

[ebola?]

Commit as many human atrocities as you need to to find out if this "RH-34" is legit. Or, and this is only if you're feeling up to the task, upload a photo of it, perform analytical tests, etc.

Hahahahahah....

ebola

 

[bob_arctor]

From the EU Early Warning System:

In Frankreich wurden mit RH-34 und 2-(2,3-dimethoxyphenyl)-N-(3,4,5-trimethoxybenzyl)ethanamine zwei neue psychoaktive Substanzen identifiziert:

3-[2-(2-methoxybenzylamino)ethyl]-1H-quinazoline-2,4-dione (RH-34) is a quinazoline which contains a N-2-methoxybenzyl structure (-NBOMe). It has been predicted to be a potent and selective partial agonist for the 5-HT2A serotonin receptor according to computational studies (Silva et al. 2011).
Silva ME, Heim R, Strasser A, Elz S, Dove S (January 2011). "Theoretical studies on the interaction of partial agonists with the 5-HT(2A) receptor". Journal of Computer-aided Molecular Design 25 (1): 51–66.
2-(2,3-dimethoxyphenyl)-N-(3,4,5-trimethoxybenzyl)ethanamine is a substituted phenethylamine which shares some similarities with NBOMe-like structures.

The French FP has reported seizures of white powder of both substances seized at Brest, in April 2013. The circumstances of the seizure involved indications of small scale trafficking and illicit production. A young person was found in the street, in a confused state; the person had a lab where these and other substances were found (25-H-NBOMe, 25-I-NBOMe, UR-144, 25-C-NBOMe and kratom).

 

[SeenSoFar]

Well, after lots of precautions, I finally got what seems to be the beginning of promising results with this compound. 1mg vapourized resulted in some threshold effects. After dripping 4 250 microgram drops onto foil I vapourized the resulting solution and took the water and chemical vapour in one inhalation. I held the vapour for about 30 seconds before exhaling. Upon exhalation I noticed a mild head rush and some sparkling of my vision which did not fade with the passing seconds. I noticed a mild shift towards orange in the colours around me, and things appeared to have acquired a slight vibration. Pulse was elevated to 100BPM from a normal rest rate of 80BPM. Blood pressure was not checked. Pupils were enlarged noticeably. Gait was normal, no loss of coordination or balance. In the body I noticed a feeling of lightness and slight paresthesia that seemed to migrate around my flesh. I felt very relaxed, and my thought processes were slightly altered, with a slight acceleration and increase in free-associative thinking. The effects seemed to build slightly over the first 2-3 minutes, and then were steady for 3-4 hours before dropping off to a feeling of contentment and extreme hunger. By extreme, I mean extreme, like weed munchies don't touch this, I was eating condiments. All in all, very interesting. I'm looking forward to going higher.