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Smackie Thread

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^ I've gotta vehemently disagree that meth is more psychologically addictive than heroin, but it's probably purely subjective and differs person to person.

With regards to nightmares on come downs, I wouldn't call dreaming of scoring fuckloads of pure H and getting pinned as fuck as "nightmares", but it's a nightmare when you wake up and realise it was just a fucking dream.
 
I think a major factor is that proper ice is too expensive in Aus to maintain a serious habit for most unemployed drug taking people.. in the US it is dirt cheap and thus a much bigger problem... i seem to recall i heard that physically it is more addictive than heroin (although not as addictive as nicotine.. heh). Good 'pure' ice here is pricey! In my experience with all drugs is that you get what you pay for especially with the various forms of methamphetamine (speed, meth, ice, etc). Heroin is cheaper here due to our proximitey to South East Asia so your average junkie can afford it and stay high all the time. And same with Coke - we are too far from South America so we will never see crack become popular here. My psychological addiction to meth is very very strong, and unlike a physical addiction it DOESN'T seem to fade with time . Every time i have meth in my hot little hand I turn into some sort of Jekyl and Hyde creature and all lI care about is getting high. I think about meth every day even when i go months without taking it. And I CANNOT be around other people on meth, it drives me crazy and its all i can think about. Having said that I live a full life, full time job, partner, family, hobbies, savings, etc etc... so who knows.
 
WarChild said:
In a way I'll be addicted to Meth for life, i know that, but not necessarily be taking all the time it if that makes sense.

I thought that too, especially once I developed an ongoing almost daily addiction. Meth is still my DOC and it ruled my life and thoughts for a good amount of time. But having been off it for over 8 months now, I hardly think about it. There was a time when even saying or thinking the word ice/meth would send a big flame of adrenaline roaring in my tummy in craving. Now, there are honestly days in a row when it never crosses my mind once. I can still get that flame going if I think about it hard enough, but sometimes these days, I'll be reminded of it, and be shocked at how still my body is. Slowly but surely, that addiction is leaving me, and more and more, I can see it as just a drug, rather than the almost mystical/spiritual dimension it had for me before.

Anyway, endone is oxycodone which I find quite different than the morphine based opiates like smack or codeine; much less pleasurable for me. But for a lot of people it's very euphoric.

I do agree though that for me, meth is/was far and away more addictive than opiates, even after developing a daily opiate habit. Maybe it's just that I used ice for far longer than I've abused opiates, but opiates don't give me anywhere near the level or cravings that meth did. With opiates, for me, it's more that it's a pleasant feeling that I like better than being sober, rather than needing that drug in particular.


jspun said:
Its much easier to be a functional junkie than tweaker, or alcoholic- once you have a habit.

Why do you think this? I found it much easier to go a few days without ice than a few days without opiates, because the acute withdrawals of ice basically just include sleeping, so you do that for a few days, then score again. Being without opiates becomes very noticable in even less than a day if you're using regularly, so you get stuck with a double whammy of, even if you don't crave it psychologically, you decide to use it to get rid of the pain. For that reason, even though smack is cheaper here than ice, you're bound into buying it every day in a way you just aren't with meth.

I do think in terms of just living your life, if money/scoring wasn't an issue, that heroin is the best to go about your day to day tasks on, because it doesn't have that cycle of high then crash of ice - which makes you pretty disfunctional on the crashing days.
 
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Heroin is beautiful and seductive. I am on sub now a days, but for the life of me I can't understand why junkies are regarded in Aus as degenerate scum- or is my impression incorrect, and tweakers are almost thought to be fashionable. MDMA is ok but crystal meth is more dangerous from a health standpoint especially when you are talking smoking heroin as opposed to smoking crystal meth- heroin is even healthier than alcohol from a health standpoint, but it sure is seductive. Is harm reduction connected to smack in decline- there are safe injection rooms, correct?

Its much easier to be a functional junkie than tweaker, or alcoholic- once you have a habit.

We have kind of a weird view towards ice/meth in this country that seem to vary a great deal between non drug users and drug users, I would say that non drug users in general view ice as pretty much as bad as heroin and definately see the ice addict as the one to fear most if you cross paths due to the Government propaganda emphasising the possibility of the drug causing psychosis. If a non drug user was to consider heroin as slightly worse it would probably only be due to a greater association with being injected.

Amongst drug users though the view seems to be pretty different, almost all will recognise ice as a highly addictive but at the same time there is an element of social acceptability even towards drug addiction where people will take the view that meth is social and productive while heroin is anti social and just makes people nod out like spastics all day. The perception obviously isn't based in reality but in my experience this tends to be the attitude drug users in my age group and area have. Even the few of my closer friends who I have explained smack isn't how they percieve it, and that I can have dope sit in my drawer for a few days untouched but can't do this with shards have absolutely no interest in trying it and look down upon most who use it.

Strangely enough cut methamphetamine known as 'speed' or 'whizz' carries little stigma amongst drug users and even among non users is probably often seen as a relatively soft drug only a bit above stuff like cannabis and pills. A good deal of the people I know nowadays whom I would describe as ice heads would refuse to touch ice despite using a shitload of 'smokable whizz' until the last year or so cottoning on that ice was a lot better, it is only really then that ice really lost a lot of its stigma among drug users.

I would not say Harm Reduction connected to smack is in decline, there is a Safe Injection room in Kings Cross Sydney that has operated for a good number of years. Recently there was talk of opening one in Richmond, Victoria (just South of Melbourne) and if I recall correctly the council actually approved it before it got vetoed by the State Government. Recently there was a discussion in Queensland about whether there was a need for a safe injection room which I know Belarki and Mr Blonde both attended, although I am not sure if any steps have been taken towards setting one up since that discussion. There are a large number of NSP's and while many probably fall short of all the equipment needed to IV pills safely they are more than adequate for getting all you need to shoot heroin safely, even most pharmacies will carry fit packs and sell them without prescription.

As I understand it its also fairly easy to get onto methadone or buprenorphine as long as you live in a relatively metropolitan area, I would probably say that in terms of relevant harm reduction resources available to them that heroin users are probably the luckiest in Australia.
 
I have a love/hate relationship with all opiates, especially oxy and heroin. If I could I'd use every day for the rest of my life, tolerance and availability/income prevents that from happening.

I'm trying to get off today with a bupe taper, I've had 16mg bupe, 2mg xanax and 25mg of valium and it's only barely helping. I had a pretty high tolerance, near daily use either morphine or heroin for just over 6 months. I'm not having a fun day at all, with hot and cold flashes resulting in a body covered in stinky sweat, restless legs, no appetite, no energy, yawns, nose is a faucet etc. Should be worse tomorrow, yay. All I can think of is scoring.

I can't really add anything to the thread except don't get hooked on this shit.

i feel for you (and that's a fuck load of bupe too). I've been using quite bit (probably three out of every four weeks) for the last 7 months, and then went on a non-stop month use (got hit by a car). anyway since Monday I have been absolutely fucked but still having to maintain a decorum and go to work and pretend everything is alright. I feel like my body is in a constant yawn. Too tired to do anything to awake to sleep. nose is fucking killing me leaking shit like there is no tomorrow. Monday and Tuesday were bad but i'm just feeling empty now. to combine this with a job I absolutely loathe and hate (but pays extraordinarily well). I was ready to blow my brains out on my desk. I fucking hate companies that think they're a public department. you could empty the entire office of all life and still be more productive.

That said the sadomastic in me sort of derives a pleasure from the insanity of this smackie limbo. its like being on some stormy ocean at night, up and down the waves. your cold and then hot, panic, fear, very philosophical

oh well learnt my lesson. No twice daily use (punctuated with codeine). Though I am thinking of scoring today or next week. what will it be I wonder.
 
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to combine this with a job I absolutely loathe and hate (but pays extraordinarily well).

This is basically a straight up pathway to drug addiction I reckon. Heaps of money and constant shitty days? I'd be smashing anything I could find in your position.

Not that I wouldn't love a bit of oxy if I could get my hands on it, but boredom, stress, and money in equally high amounts is a dangerzone for drug abuse.
 
I don't know how you people turn up to work in w/d's, more than a week or so of straight use and I can barely convince myself to leave my room.

Though these days I make a point of having half a dozen boxes of codeine on hand before I come off a binge, a day or two of CWE's and a few days of just popping N+/panadeine like candy for a rapid taper usually keeps me vaguely functional. Still get depressed and antisocial, but it holds off most of the physical symptoms.
 
This is basically a straight up pathway to drug addiction I reckon. Heaps of money and constant shitty days? I'd be smashing anything I could find in your position.

Not that I wouldn't love a bit of oxy if I could get my hands on it, but boredom, stress, and money in equally high amounts is a dangerzone for drug abuse.

It's even worse when you work from home and choose your own hours - perfect sitcho to become an everyday user 8(
 
Has anyone tried mixing GHB/1,4-b & opies? I find the synergy/nod to be pretty euphoric. Although it does ko you some of the time..
 
Has anyone tried mixing GHB/1,4-b & opies? I find the synergy/nod to be pretty euphoric. Although it does ko you some of the time..

Yeah I've tried it a few times, really good buzz but yeah I was wiped out hardcore by the end of the day.
 
Has anyone tried mixing GHB/1,4-b & opies? I find the synergy/nod to be pretty euphoric. Although it does ko you some of the time..

This is the combo my best mate passed away on :( I would say be extremely careful - I used to always use 1,4 as a codeine potentiator, which works well, but with the stronger opies, its a disaster waiting to happen....
 
It's even worse when you work from home and choose your own hours - perfect sitcho to become an everyday user 8(

funny enough I was working from today.

I don't know how you people turn up to work in w/d's, more than a week or so of straight use and I can barely convince myself to leave my room.

I am a functional drug user. I don't drive high. I don't work high. I have a social life. I don't steal, I have a circle of friends and family that I can exercise my eccentric behavours and not be ostracised. I am not high when I with my daughter or wife (and why would you want to be). When I have discharged all responsibilities (that I am grateful for having and don't regret for a second) then I feel that I am free to shoot up, smoke a joint, drop a tab/pill, play a game, watch a movie or fuck my brains out. With moderation and that is where I failed (with good cause since being hit by a car is no nicety).

12 years ago I had a pretty good heroin habit but essentially had a moment of clarity and accepted/understood/forgave/ what had happened to me, at that point heroin became boring. I didn't use for about 10 years. Perhaps everyone has to find their own method but I have always felt that once you have been enlightened then you'll be free from the shackles of addiction (whether that's drugs, eating, watching too much television or stamp collecting).
 
^^ mad props on not lettin your use effect any part of your life, especially at your age.. you obviously got your priorities sorted...

also good to see you have the self control after being into certain habits over the years
 
to be honest I was always confused at the stereotypical junky (who taught me oh so well the ways of scoring and such). In capable of working or operating without smack, spending days closeted up. Worse thing is when the addict (whatever the drug, or habit) ends up in house full of rubbish, knee deep.
 
Drug Mentor
I would not say Harm Reduction connected to smack is in decline, there is a Safe Injection room in Kings Cross Sydney that has operated for a good number of years. Recently there was talk of opening one in Richmond, Victoria (just South of Melbourne) and if I recall correctly the council actually approved it before it got vetoed by the State Government. Recently there was a discussion in Queensland about whether there was a need for a safe injection room which I know Belarki and Mr Blonde both attended, although I am not sure if any steps have been taken towards setting one up since that discussion. There are a large number of NSP's and while many probably fall short of all the equipment needed to IV pills safely they are more than adequate for getting all you need to shoot heroin safely, even most pharmacies will carry fit packs and sell them without prescription.

As I understand it its also fairly easy to get onto methadone or buprenorphine as long as you live in a relatively metropolitan area, I would probably say that in terms of relevant harm reduction resources available to them that heroin users are probably the luckiest in Australia.

Hey my man, sorry for the late reply. Thanks for explaining the attitude towards meth vs opiates (an the softer form of "speed"). You were a great mod during your time in DiTM, by the way. But anyway, Aus has been cited as a progressive country in HR literature. Now, it seems the pedulum is swinging the other direction and I fear that public perception may be a root cause. Kings Cross, ect...had a bomm in SE Asian heroin that became a drought in 2002, I think from reports on BL. It sounds like the supply lines are restablished but it is interesting what you say that the public fears meth/opiate addicts, but within the community meth is considered a lesser evil than heroin. In this country, over the last 10 years heroin is turning into the chique drug among the young, thanks mostly to oxy but East of the Mississippi, a colombian entreupeneur realized the the shelf life of the average coke user was 5 years and heroin was sustainable indefinately. What you got was seeds and know how imported from SE Asia if the stories are true, and Colombian #4 suplanted Asian #4 in the markets East of the Mississippi. Now West you have tar, but you also have a meth scene cenetered in San diego that stretches 60 years back, after the end of WWII- it jumped from okinawa (were pharma was dumping IV meth to a demoralized population in Japan), to the Marshall Islands, Guam, Hawaii (were there is still a huge scene), and made continental landfall in San Diego. The development of the scene is another story. I have known tweakers living somewhat functional lives for 20 years. The life of an opiate addict given current treatment modalities- up to and incuding the Uk and Especially Swiss Heroin maintenance Rx and injection rooms in liberal cities of Europe have been highly successful. It is my experience that a heroin addict is functional so long as they have unlimited access to the drug. With meth, sleeplessness, paranoia, and bizzare behavior get in the way- though in my experience many years ago mixing benzos and heroin took the edge off the psychosis- but that is in no means a recommendation and as a case study lacks objectivity- more research needs to be done. But the Swiss experience has been very favorable and i started a thread called evolution of the swiss HR concept.

Now the exciting thing about Australia, and I don't have the article, is that there was experiments in dexedrine maintenance for meth addicts. The results were encouraging and i heard good things from a BLer, anecdotally, from canada, whose primary care provider was atempting a similar approach- so it might carry some merit.

At the end of the day, we hopefully will agree that were no worse or better than anyone else, being a seppo notwistanding.:D Ok maybe were worse, but everyone else is equal.

Check out the EADD thread- heroin is acceptable in the UK and Eire, speed, well its staus is indetermenant.
 
Perhaps everyone has to find their own method but I have always felt that once you have been enlightened then you'll be free from the shackles of addiction (whether that's drugs, eating, watching too much television or stamp collecting).

I can totally relate to this. I had a pretty full on IV Oxy/Morph/H(whatever opies I could get) habit for a few years until I got on methadone and really didnt want to use because my life was going nowhere, a few months ago I got on bupe and have been at 8mg for most of that time. I recently decided I want to taper off because I truely believe I will not want to use all the time. I will have a job by then(just finishing qualifications now) and my life has progressed so much, im no longer hiding the fact that im gay, ive worked through a lot of my trauma issues and im an adult in every sense of the word now.

Not to mention its nowhere near as available but im sure my tolerance has gone right down so hopefully 0.05-0.1g of H IV or 60mg morphine IV will do the trick. I want to taper fairly quickly but not stupidly quick, I still need to attend tafe but it will be holidays through the worst of it. How much morphine would you shoot if you'd been on 8mg bupe for a fair while and just tapered off? Will my tolerance from the methadone still be there?(was on 80mg meth until about 4 months ago)

I definitely think meth is more psychologically addictive at first but I crave opiates moreso than meth as a whole. I go through little stages with meth where ill use a lot for a month or 2 then forget about it for quite a few more months. I also think its how you administer it, if I IV meth I dont really crave more hits but when I smoke it I could constantly toke all day if I could. On the other hand the ritual of IV heroin or other opiates is addictive in itself, the excitement of the rush to come is enough to give a slight high, for me at least. I have some great memories with opiates and I think if id been a little more grown up then I wouldnt have fucked myself up so much, I believe they are magical chemicals though and after many years with minimal use I feel that its now time to let myself have a little bit of respite from my hectic life.
 
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Cheers jspun, sadly these days I almost never check in over at DitM and have a poke around. It is a great forum though and I encourage most bluelighters to check it out if they got time.

I haven't heard of them using dexedrine maintenance here but thats pretty cool, hopefully they continue experimenting with that. They are definately going to need a better approach towards meth addiction in coming years for the large wave of people that seem to be developing habits.

It is hard for me to fathom a society where heroin is accepted or chique, my whole drug using career the overwhelming majority of people I have known to use drugs have considered heroin to be a dirty antisocial drug that is only used by scum.
 
I'd be interested to see the results of that study using dexedrine as a replacement for meth users.

I also remember one of the AUDD crew who mentioned they'd trialled a study using modafinil for the same purpose.
 
^ I was part of the clinical trial of modafinil but as far as I know, it was found to be no more effective than placebo in meth withdrawal so I don't think they're really pursuing that idea anymore, or at least not quickly.
 
^ I was part of the clinical trial of modafinil but as far as I know, it was found to be no more effective than placebo in meth withdrawal so I don't think you're really pursuing that idea anymore, or at least not quickly.

Ahh yeah I thought it was you, wasn't certain though :p

Interesting that they didn't persue it, I found modafinil amazing for fatigue, though admittedly my fatigue was unrelated to meth use.

You ended up being on the placebo didn't you?
 
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