Open Discussion Stamp Thread in the North & South American Social & Drug Discussion Section

[amapola]

^The logistics behind that would require another forum.

Is there no way to make the warning thread more interesting to post in?

 

[alasdairm]

Stamps are not that easy to reproduce, you would have to have a decent amount of money to put into it,...

that's not true at all. i just got a quote from a company to create a custom rubber stamp based on custom art-work. the turnaround (from placing the order to shipping) is one day and the cost is less than $20.

Everything is a matter of guessing: food quality, driving, waking up alive in the morning. All of these are based on statistics. For example, you are very likely to not die from something you eat, but what about e-coli?

that's not really an accurate parallel, is it? the food service industry is highly regulated for safety. further, as phrozen said, in the case of illicit drugs, there is no governing body making sure standards are set and met. There is no accountability. Neither of those is true in the case of food.

You ask about "measuring"? Since what is being measured is not a quantity...

again, incorrect.

Bricks & Stacks said "It seems to me like more often then not it would be (and was) helpful.". he was arguing that certain information was helpful more often than it was not helpful. that's a quantifiable metric but it's not at all clear to me how he could possibly measure it and, from there, how he could make that statement with any degree of authority.

you then said "It can be reproduced, it has been reproduced, it will be reproduced, but almost always it's not..." how do you know that's true almost always? present some back up for your claim. i suspect, and i'm absolutely willing to be proved wrong, that you're just making an assumption. what evidence do you have that "...almost always it's not"? it's fine if that's just your feeling based on your experience but, again, i think harm reduction should be based on something more than speculation and a hunch.

alasdair

 

[alasdairm]

...a truly uneducated guess as to harm reduction.

if you assume that a certain product in a bag with a picture on it is the same product as another bag with the same picture on it, that's exactly what we're talking about - a guess.

alasdair

 

[Bricks & Stacks]

you then said "It can be reproduced, it has been reproduced, it will be reproduced, but almost always it's not..." how do you know that's true almost always? present some back up for your claim. i suspect, and i'm absolutely willing to be proved wrong, that you're just making an assumption. what evidence do you have that "...almost always it's not"? it's fine if that's just your feeling based on your experience but, again, i think harm reduction should be based on something more than speculation and a hunch.

alasdair

I was talking about pills there though. You admitted yourself you feel the same way about pills. I just don't see how anyone can say pill reports are harm reduction but stamp reports are not? That's ass backwards man. Pills ABSOLUTELY can be copied. I have no fuckin doubt in my mind there's some copies of ex pills going around right now. The only ex pill that comes to mind is those "pokeballs" or whatever I always hear everyone talking about. We allow people to talk about those ratings like it's the gospel.

You read the comments on there "aw yeah man those are great high mdma" or whatever. It even says over there not every ex pill with the same name EVEN from the same distributor has the same ammount of mdma. So how is that harm reduction if you're telling people "aw these are mdma medium they got 40mg(or whatever I can't remember the measurement they use) of mdma" then I get one of the same pills and it got 150mg? But I read on here they only had about 40mg so I pop 5 because 200mg is my normal dose. I shoulda been smart enough to know not to absolutely put trust in someone elses word right? of course, so it's the same way with the stamp thread. It's not like we're asking to keep a list of stamps from 2 years ago and you think the Cash Money bags you got 2 years ago are the same as the ones you got today, it's constantly updated that's the great thing about it.


Ok so maybe getting a rubber stamp is cheaper then a pill press, but to a group like the cartel or whatever money does not fuckin matter, what stops them from pressing 100,000 of those pokeballs tonight and sellin them tommorrow? Nothing is stopping them because it is the black market. We're dealing with illegal drugs here, there are no sure things.

I mean I wouldn't even be having this arguement if I didn't see the hypocracy in it all. If we were just fighting to get the stamp thread started, and there were no pill reports, I would absolutely agree and say aw ok your right, there is no way to be sure it's the same thing as a member on here got. It's exactly the same as ex pills. Pills are branded for a reason, so are stamps. Why are ex pills not all just little white pills? Because the name builds a following. Do scammers take advantage of that? All the time.

 

[ATLL765]

When it comes to a completely unregulated market like we all have to deal with when buying drugs, there is no possibility of ever being 100% sure what you bought until you use it. It's quite unfortunate, but it is the way it is. Every user should be aware of this and if they're not, it's really just natural selection at work.

The stamp thread in my opinion, helped a lot for me because personally, I don't ever do a tiny tester every time I cop. I do the same amount I always do. Is that reckless? In some ways, but it's pretty rare that I do my normal amount and am truly surprised by the quality. I've done bags that were really good, but I never felt like it was a bad idea to have done that.

My point is that I'm gonna do the dope no matter what and I feel like I'm definitely not the only person who does the same. If there was a way for me to be warned if a bag is particularly strong, I'd think about taking precautions, like maybe only shooting half if what I have in the syringe and waiting until it hits me to do the rest or not doing it at all.

I feel that especially in the NJ area, bags are fairly consistent. It's not too often that you get a stamp and it's a 8/10 and then you get it two days later and it's a 2/10. After a few weeks, there's definitely the possibility of getting a copycat batch that's garbage, but I've never had a problem where a stamp became dangerous to use, just that it was now garbage and even that has only happened to me once or twice in over a year and a half.

 

[alasdairm]

I just don't see how anyone can say pill reports are harm reduction but stamp reports are not?

i never said that. read post #52 in this thread. i'm not sure i could have made it any clearer.

Ok so maybe getting a rubber stamp is cheaper then a pill press, but to a group like the cartel or whatever money does not fuckin matter, what stops them from pressing 100,000 of those pokeballs tonight and sellin them tommorrow? Nothing is stopping them because it is the black market. We're dealing with illegal drugs here, there are no sure things.

i agree.

alasdair

 

[Bricks & Stacks]

i never said that. read post #52 in this thread. i'm not sure i could have made it any clearer.
i agree.

alasdair

Yeah in the line before what you quoted I said even you agree about pills I was mainly referring to anyone else, sorry it wasn't clear.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

How much ingenuity would it take to have several people leave good reports about a specific stamp, and then sell 0% quality (or < 5%) in said stamp bags?

A pill press is something most drug dealers do not have. Wax papers? Yeah, I imagine a lot of people could get those, and a stamp/ink pad? Probably even easier.

 

[Tommyboy]

^ If two new posters come on posting 8/10 on some new bag, it is pretty obvious they may be scamming. Then within a day, the trustworty posters will report that the stamp sucked. It takes time for posters to trust one another, in the stamp thread, and any other thread.

 

[Pegasus]

I understand why the thread was taken down, but I think it is important that we have a clear message of just what our mission here at BL is. I was discussing the purpose of BL to some people the other day and was troubled by how much explaining I had to do to explain away certain things. I personally think that BL should distance itself from PillReports if it is to gain legitimacy in the medical community (the direction the forum seems to be taking), and in this case, our definition of HR needs to be narrowed.

I do think the stamp thread is good, but maybe better suited for a different site? Something like PillReports outside of BL?

 

[senatorslobberchop]

"if you assume that a certain product in a bag with a picture on it is the same product as another bag with the same picture on it, that's exactly what we're talking about - a guess."

I agree that it's a situation you can't be completely sure in, but we who use do everything to make sure that it does not become a guess. Not having the information from a stamp thread makes it a guess and that's what makes not having information so dangerous. We need to stop thinking in absolutes such that someone said, "John said x bag is an 8, therefore, if I get x, I can expect it to be EXACTLY an 8". The rating tells me that someone, under disclosed situational variances (tolerance, usage history, ROA) thought these were stronger than usual; I will do less.

"...certain information was helpful more often than it was not helpful. that's a quantifiable metric but it's not at all clear to me how he could possibly measure it..."

Edit: Please don't link to something we don't currently allow. This is the second time. -phrozen.

You can see for yourself how consistent the ratings are. Additionally, the posters present ways to identify the knockoff bags and avoid them (Rihanna was a case of this)

And as for the FDA regulating food, we put waaaaaaaaay too much faith in authority because the things they "regulate" can make you sick and kill you...easily. We gain comfort from knowing something is regulated, but we don't always know what specific actions are being taken to ensure consumer safety and the actual feasibility of implementing those policies. Someone can easily poison a hamburger and give it to. It's just not in their best interest to do that. In fact, McDonald's uses the shittiest meat for hamburger filler and people eat it because they don't know (or don't care) it's in their food. Because that standard is established, other fast food places can do the same and consumers will think they have one option. Drug trade is the opposite: the informed consumer (demand side) truly does control the supply.

In "Food inc." it is shown that places known to have given multiple people e-coli will not always be shut down. I will agree that there is at least a route for accountability and discipline to be issued in the food industry.

Let's understand this together: part of the beauty of the drug trade is that it is one of the only truly free markets in a capitalist society. The rules of the free market are the authority and regulators of the drug trade. Stamps exist for a reason. Yes they can be forgeries; most often they are not. Regardless, if they are good, people will want them and the only way to sell a desired product, is to actually have it. The incentive to produce forgeries is not nearly as great because it hurts everyone: the user will not buy from the dealer, the dealer will not buy from the supplier.

This industry relies of repeat customers. Now, the free hand of the market is showing that it wants the information to know its product. People should want, and do want to know what they are injecting into their bodies. Though there is no way to be absolutely certain, any information is helpful because without it, we truly are just taking blind guesses and stabs (into the arm) in the dark.

Stamps have been around for a while, and in a multi million dollar industry that's as competitive as the heroin trade, they must serve a purpose and be more useful than not-useful. There will always be possibilities to lie about product quality or take advantage of the system, but in this truly free market, there is no reason to do this when you can make the most money selling the best stuff. Either way, knowing can only help this process, even if it isn't certain every time.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

^ If two new posters come on posting 8/10 on some new bag, it is pretty obvious they may be scamming. Then within a day, the trustworty posters will report that the stamp sucked. It takes time for posters to trust one another, in the stamp thread, and any other thread.

True story.

It could be more than 2 though; you could get to know tons of people, specifically heroin using BL'ers in the NJ/NYC area, give them a few bags of good stuff to lie about a different stamp; or they just put actually good dope in one stamp, for some people, and then sell a lot of crap to other people.

Then you would have situations where people were lying for dope, or telling the truth without knowing that it will lead to others believing they found "good dope" whereas it is actually garbage.

The problem with comparing a stamp thread to pill ID's, is that people don't eat the pills and say "oh yeah, I think that was MDMA...." because someone without much experience wouldn't know, and someone with a lot of experience may have a tolerance which would interfere with proper identification; with pill ID's, people send off tablets to labs, and/or they use reagent tests.

A stamp thread is merely dope users guessing at how good their dope is.

A first timer is going to think highly of any bag that has any appreciable amount of heroin, because they don't have a tolerance and will get high. And a seasoned user will have a tolerance which interferes in the next high they seek out, which may account for some users posting low numbers for one stamp and other users posting high numbers for another one, even if the dealer didn't take advantage and was selling a homogenized product.

 

[senatorslobberchop]

"A first timer is going to think highly of any bag that has any appreciable amount of heroin"

We've covered that. Every user has a "user profile" which includes how long they've been using, method they use, number of bags they normally do, suboxone in their system, etc.

Typical posts look like this

Stamp Name
Quality: 6
Quantity: 5
Description: white, fluffy..........
Stamp Characteristics: Sloppy blue stamp, bad tape job, off center stamp

10 years experience using with 6-8 bags of 6 quality dope IVed normally. Had a little sub in my system from yesterday

 

[Unbreakable]

The problem with comparing a stamp thread to pill ID's, is that people don't eat the pills and say "oh yeah, I think that was MDMA...." because someone without much experience wouldn't know, and someone with a lot of experience may have a tolerance which would interfere with proper identification; with pill ID's, people send off tablets to labs, and/or they use reagent tests.

I have went to many raves,parties,festivals(10 years total) and i have yet to see someone pull out a Reagent test for a pill. They look at the logo & swallow it almost as soon as they buy it.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I have went to many raves,parties,festivals(10 years total) and i have yet to see someone pull out a Reagent test for a pill. They look at the logo & swallow it almost as soon as they buy it.

Interesting.

The entirety of my MDA/MDMA experiences were had because one person would sell it, and they regularly got reagent tests for the batches they had.

If you haven't met people who buy 100's of tablets at a time, I doubt you would have seen reagents in action - it isn't going to monetarily behoove one to buy 2 pills of one press, so one can be tested and one can be eaten or not; it usually behooves you to buy 100 +, and test 1, so that you are sure the other 99 are legitimate. This way the cost of testing is spread onto the rest of the pills.

I guess you could also say something along the lines of... "I have shot lots of pills, dope, etc. but never seen someone fix up with a micron filter before" - but that's not to say I don't use them myself, I certainly do. I just have never seen someone else use one before; just me.

 

[Unbreakable]

Are we talking about people buying pills or drug dealers buying in bulk...When people buy in bulk they don't buy stuff at the party, they buy it before the party...Now the kids at these parties buying pills, rarely test any of the pills they get. They are taking the dealer for his or her word that what they are getting is Mdma.

 

[amapola]

I understand why the thread was taken down, but I think it is important that we have a clear message of just what our mission here at BL is. I was discussing the purpose of BL to some people the other day and was troubled by how much explaining I had to do to explain away certain things. I personally think that BL should distance itself from PillReports if it is to gain legitimacy in the medical community (the direction the forum seems to be taking), and in this case, our definition of HR needs to be narrowed.

I do think the stamp thread is good, but maybe better suited for a different site? Something like PillReports outside of BL?

For a moment of comic relief I'd like to point out that if this thread created to argue for adding stamp reporting ends up with Bluelight distancing itself from pillreports.com the irony would not be lost on me

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Are we talking about people buying pills or drug dealers buying in bulk...When people buy in bulk they don't buy stuff at the party, they buy it before the party...Now the kids at these parties buying pills, rarely test any of the pills they get. They are taking the dealer for his or her word that what they are getting is Mdma.

I would say we are talking about both.

No matter whether you are buying 1 pill per experience, or selling them, because...

if you are just eating 1 tablet, 1 time in life, and only wish to have 1 experience, and you are very wealthy, then whatever money you have to spend to attain this isn't going to seem too much to bear.

if you don't have much money at all, then it will seem like too much to bear.

if you are selling, then you would need to buy more than 1 tablet at a time, since you need to test at least part of the pill, and no one wants to buy a partially missing pill.

If you only get two, then the entire cost of both pills and the testing, has to be regenerated through selling one pill.

If you buy 100 pills, then the cost of just 1 pill and the testing, will be broken down over the other 99.

Even when you buy in bulk - you are going off the dealer's word, unless you get to watch them test one of their pills, or he gives you one for free so you can test it. Or, you can go about it like this, "I know I want to buy some, at least one, so give me one and I'll let you know how many I'll be getting after I test it".

For a moment of comic relief I'd like to point out that if this thread created to argue for adding stamp reporting ends up with Bluelight distancing itself from pillreports.com the irony would not be lost on me

Me neither.

 

[Bricks & Stacks]

^ ^so what stops them from giving you a pill to test that's legit then 99 pills of fake shit?

 

[Captain.Heroin]

^ ^so what stops them from giving you a pill to test that's legit then 99 pills of fake shit?

You get to choose which one pill you want out of the hundred.

Of course, you could just choose the wrong one, but the odds are stacked against the dealer if he throws 1 good pill into a bag of 99 good ones.

If the dealer seems to freak out when you request this, you can tell that he has the "1 good, 99 bunk" bag of pills..... but I doubt this happens often.