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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

My nanna can't tell an amphetamine from a methamphetamine!

^^^^
I've heard the same thing too. They banned the sale of vicks inhalers in some states of the US for that reason, hence why you see the patented dust masks with paste vicks smeared on the inside.
 
Hmm... it might be an old story, that one.
I seem to remember that Vicks nasal inhalers used to contain a chemical that is called levmetamfetamine, also known as l-desoxyephedrine or l-methamphetamine. As a matter of fact, from www.vicks.com the ingredients of an inhaler are:
Active Ingredients (per inhaler): 50 mg Levmetamfetamine (nasal decongestant)
Inactive Ingredients: Bornyl acetate, camphor, lavender oil, and menthol.
As mentioned by Biscuit above, most chemicals come in two forms - a d-isomer and an l-isomer. They are mirror images of each other, but may have wildly different effects on the human body. With meth, the d-isomer is an enormously powerful stimulant. It's the one the you want. The l-isomer, as found in Vicks inhalers is a very mild stimulant. If used heavily enough, it will lead to a positive test for meth.
In fact, until Vicks recently changed its formulation, meth fans claimed to be able to manufacture the highly active form from the inhalers, and bought them by the armful.
from: Lycaeum --> Leda --> Methamphetamine Frequently Asked Questions:
"...[The Vicks Inhaler Method] from Phrack magazine, is the "tried and true method" for prepping meth from Vick's nasal inhalers. Vick's nasal inhalers contain "l-desoxyephedrine," another name for "l-methamphetamine." The l- isomer of methamphetamine is the relatively inactive one, usable as a (mild) nasal decongestant. The d- isomer is the one that every one wants and that Uncle Sam has declared is just too cool for any one except doctors.
The [recipe involving extracting the active ingredients from Vicks inhalers] would extract the l-meth from the inhalers and collect it and that's it. I'm sorry, but the Isomer Fairy can't wave her magick wand and reverse the chirality of the molecule. The only way to change between the two isomers is to oxidize the l-meth into phenylacetone, condense it with methylamine, then reduce it. Sorry, but soaking inhalers in HCl then separating the "juice" with Et2OH just won't do it. You'll get l-meth and that's that..."
BigTrancer :)
 
As we're rushing into the festive season, I thought this quite wonderful thread deserved a bump.
Congratulations to Biscuit, Fairynymph and all the other contributors - this is why so many of us rely on Bluelight - real information & true harm minimisation.
 
what a great resource!
i thought i might bump this up with a few side issues.
firstly - regarding the use of methamphetamine in vicks inhalers. there certainly still is some confusion over the matter - at the recent salt lake city winter olympics british skiier alan baxter was disqualified for failing a drugs test - he had used a U.S. vicks inhaler for a cold, and had consequently tested positive for methamphetamine.
granted that the IOC testing regime will be pretty intensive, there are at the least trace elements of meth in US sold vicks inhalers.
also - a quick word about speed usage in the uk. there is very little meth around, and it's very rare to find any.
amphetamine sulphate - usually sold as base, the thick gooey yellow-grey-white paste, is everywhere. the poms love it, it's part of a night out for lots of people who don't even do pills.
the uk has a long history of amphetamine abuse tho. the northern soul movement saw loads of teenagers in the 60s and 70s getting together to dance (sometimes for 24 hrs) to old soul records - they were all jacked on amps, which were prescription drugs at the time.
a quick word about the difference of effects; most amphetamine sulphate sold contains around 7% pure amphetamine, except in poland, which has monumentally strong amphetamine.
you will notice the difference in effects IMO. i started doing meth in aus, then after 3 years moved to the uk. i can sniff my way through a good 2 grams of amphetamine sulfate in a night, whereas with meth you need far, far, far less. the tingly feeling fairnymph describes is accurate for amphetamines; they also make me personally gurn more than meth. as for euphoria - i've had some really euphoric meth, but it is often much much edgier. the paranoia that accompanies long sessions is worse as well.
i've noticed that different batches of both meth and amph have markedly different physiological & mental effects, durations and even different comedowns.
-seuss-
 
Meth production from VICKS inhalers is NOT possible! Trust me;) As for everthing else there has been some good information posted in this thread props to you all.
 
A few of the links have changed or gone on some of my diagrams rendering one post almost unintelligible.
Sorry about that; i will endeavour to find alternate ones when I have the time.
 
It's funny that you posted this topic, b/c I'm having difficulty answering a question for my Nanna:

My little Nanna asked me if it was possible to isolate the amphetamine salts contained in her prescription Adderall, remove the HCL, and add a methyl group (she seems to believe that this would somehow make it more "fun").

She said that she has looked all over this board and Erowid and found several references to such procedures, but never an answer (that her little old mind can understand) to the question: Is something that can be done by someone with very little background in chemistry? I told her I thought that it would be fairly easy, but that I would consult the experts...

NOW, JUST FOR THE SAKE OF CLARITY:

I AM NOT LOOKING FOR DIRECTIONS ON "HOW-TO", just a personal opinion from one educated in such fields on if it is something that CAN be done fairly easily.

I AM NOT LOOKING FOR LINKS TO SOURCES OR LINKS TO DIRECTIONS...just thoughts?

Mods - I hope this is OK...please delete if you feel it is inappropriate (but I just want to help my Nanna :)
 
^^^ It is very easy from a chemical point of view.

However, losses along the way and the availability and abundance of other precursor(s) make it not worthwhile in my opinion. I don't believe many would choose to take this route. Save your pharmaceutical grade drugs and treasure them, because it will be the cleanest you'll find.

Besides, what you are asking about can put you behind bars for a LONG time even if its your first offence and your daddy the police commisioner (well, on second thought, maybe not the last one :)

It's not hard to find a home meth lab. Keep it theoretical, and you'll have fun and stay out of trouble.

Knowledge is power.
 
Well technically of course it's possible to do such a thing, but it wouldn't necessarily be the best or easiest way. Since you would have to dissolve the poweder and extract the active ingredient and leave the remaining binders behind. Then perform a substitution reaciton to replace one of the carbon molecules with a methyl chain. How you would do this is beyond me. I'm sure if you hunt down a chemistry student they could tell you. Or read Shulgins book and he might be able to rub off some chemical tricks.
 
Conversion very difficult

Actually it would be basically impossible from both a chemical and practical point of view.

Practical is easy to understand:
From a 100 tablet bottle of 5mg dexamphetamine there is only a meagre 500mg of amphetamine. When that is freebased, presuming u could actually extract it all from the binder, you would be dealing with only 450 or so mg or an absolutely minor 0.4ml. Thats right, not even half a millilitre of liquid.

Try using that for complicated chemical reactions.
Then you would do the reaction and then attempt to extract the product. Then you must turn it back into a powdered salt.
We are talking major losses here - i'd say a woeful yield of less than 50% from the original 500mg of dextroamphetamine sulfate at the most.


Chemical point of view:
Runner i do disagree - the conversion from amphetamine to methamphetamine (or if you like MDA to MDMA) is much much harder than people think.

It requires some rather selective chemistry, reagents no one outside of a laboratory would ever see and is quite difficult to boot.
Many people believing adding a methyl group (-CH3) to a nitrogen organic molecule is easy.
Well it is, but not in the way we want to add a methyl group.

Most people with some knowledge of chemistry think that a simple reaction with methyl iodide or iodomethane (CH3-I) will cause the iodide part to piss off and the nitrogen, in this case a nitrogen on an amphetamine molecule, to scoop up that methyl group and make a new compound, in this case methylamphetamine.
This is a classic NUCLEOPHILLIC SUBSTITUTION REACTION.

The problem with iodomethane is it is too damn good at this job and is not selective. So what does it do?
Well...
Nitrogen generally bonds to up to three chemical constituents - this is generally to a carbon making up another part of the molecule or a lone hydrogen.

Amphetamine: the N bonds to the rest of the molecule and 2 hydrogens = 3

Methylamphetamine: the N bonds to the rest of the molecule, 1 hydrogen, 1 methyl group = 3.

But the iodomethane wont stop at adding one methyl group - it keeps on adding methyl groups to the nitrogen is full =
Dimethylamphetamine!! - the N bonds to the rest of the molecule and 2 methyl groups = 3.

Anyone that has read PiHKAL knows Alexander Shulgin has determined that ALL dimethyl amphetamines or phenylethylamines are INACTIVE in the human brain.
So the simple way will momentarily turn your dexamphetamine into meth but then will keep going and turn it into something completely inactive.
And know you cannot attempt to extract the meth "halfway" into the reaction.

It is a logical idea, i too assumed it to be possible. It is, just not the way people believe.
A method far harder, and not within the reach of a person outside a lab, must be employed.

And trust me, if u were going to do something as illegal as turn dexies into meth, and u had access to the sorts of chemicals you would need, u would be fiddling about with something far more exotic!
 
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Biscuit
 
:D

Thanks you guys so much for your very helpful information! Biscuit -- that must have taken you over an hour to type...thanks for the research and information.

After careful consideration, my Nanna decided to cherish the little orange beauties that she has legally and forget about the methl group...I told her that was a very wise decision!
 
Biscuit: you are quite right about the stated reaction. It is likelly that neither CH3I or CH3Cl will not stop at adding only one methyl group.

There are other ways to make meth out of amphetamine that are more plausible. eg. amph + formaldehyde, then reduce imine using preferred way to yield a mixture with meth as major.

Again, why bother?
 
Just a little stop from my week in the Uni lab everyday 9-5 without a break ...And loving it.

I can't post the link from this computor, but if you visit Rhodium and look up the subject title you will see there are easier ways of doing this. But as Biscuit explained, most require chemicals which are tricky to obtain.... but not all. A noted technique involves using formaldehyde to form the respective imine which is easily redued using Hydrogen gas, and a simple catalyst.

But as Biscuit mentioned this is rather pointless with the amounts present in the medication. And don't dismiss runners warning. In the eyes of the law, such an act would definitely be regarded as manufacturing.
 
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