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3-MeO-PCP and others - Experienced - New Territory

Dondante

Bluelighter
Joined
Dec 6, 2005
Messages
1,641
I’m doubtful that this experience will add much to the collective knowledge about 3-MeO-PCP, but I thought it might be worth sharing nonetheless. It was a bit of a shake-up to say the least. I posted about the experience in segments in the PD social, but I’ll add it here for posterity since the first version is no longer accessible.

T+0:00 10 mg of 3-MeO-PCP insufflated
T+1:00 2 tabs of LSD
T+4:00 10 mg Psilocin, 50 mg Ketamine, and 1-2 mg 3-MeO-PCP IM

A sense of predestination was heavy early on, thanks to a ghostly visitation and a series of eerily coincident events.

A good friend of mine, previously my philosophy instructor in undergrad, informed me about a band, RATATAT, that his younger brother had been listening to in the days before his accidental, but fatal hydromorphone overdose. His brother was also an acquaintance, but we failed to connect as he embarked on a downward spiral of polydrug abuse and multiple stretches of rehab. He seemed unreachable…brilliant kid, maintained a near perfect GPA at a top university, but had a self-destructive drive that nobody seemed able to penetrate. A deep sense of sorrow fills me as I think about him and the pain he must have experienced by repeatedly letting down those that cared about him most.

His ghost, remnants of patterns generated in life, fundamentally shaped the experience, as I made a point to listen to RATATAT as the compound took hold. The sense of predestination was magnified by the fact that the first video contained graphic sequences of death and destruction, and then further by the discovery that the band was playing live in my home state at the exact time that I first listened. Finally, to further strengthen this emerging lattice of interrelationships, I posted this hyperlink, labeling it 'Explosion', before I'd even watched the video, which turned out to be a mix of bombs and footage of the Hindenburg disaster. In retrospect, I may have listened to the video before posting, and the theme of explosions certainly didn’t require clairvoyance. That said, extra-sensory perception seemed to be the most obvious explanation at the time. Throughout the trip, analogies of explosions seemed to materialize in my mind’s eye. Words like detonation, ground zero, and blast radius seemed to all relate to my experience – to the effect of the deceased friend on lives around him, and to the ongoing effects of this ghost that were shaping my awareness.

Overall, the experience proved to be a rollercoaster. The 3-MeO-PCP catalyzed a sense of grandiosity and created room for delusional thinking, though I don’t believe that I had abandoned rationality completely, at least not yet. On some level I understood that I was allowing this to unfold. The overwhelming sense of power and purpose resulted in me unexpectedly consuming two tabs of LSD.

About two hours later, I was down and tripping on LSD, and not sure what to do with myself. I made another rash decision, and chose to hammer my receptors with 10 mg psilocin, 50 mg ketamine, and 1-2 mg 3-meo-pcp IM. What followed was a god-awful state of delirium with sporadic periods of full-on, god-like delusions and periods of hellish mindfuckery that persisted for 2-3 hours. Fortunately, after coming down, still tripping on the LSD, I started to feel surprisingly good, amazingly good, in fact. Thank God, I was worried I'd caused some irreparable psychological damage.

My experience was that of splattered viscera – of death, decay, and desiccation – a messy, horrifying hallucinosis. Some rogue asteroid had careened through though my delicate orbit, crushing and warping my experiential manifold into grotesque distortions. The actuality of this delirium state defies any meaningful description.

At some point, when the full-on sensorial assault was in retreat – at which time all I could do was desperately continue the vital inhalations and exhalations that had brought me this far – I started repeating my wife’s name, “Miriam,” with absolutely no understanding of the meaning held by those syllables. This mantra continued, almost involuntarily, a solid chain that on some level I hoped would tow me back onto solid ground. Instead, I became enveloped by an impossibly complex delusion that I, God, was responsible for creating meaning for the sounds, “mir′ē əm.” The sounds, the text, and the physicality of the universe did not actually exist until I brought them into being. I continued to repeat my mantra, still hoping that it would lead me out of the horrific chaos. In desperation, I hammered out the keys, M-I-R-I-A-M, into Google’s search engine, and was faced with alien hieroglyphs. The text was absolutely meaningless. I lost my footing and plummeted back into oblivion.

It was a slow, deliberate trudge back across hallucinatory remnants strewn throughout my psyche, but gradually, the fog cleared and I have never been so thankful in my entire life.

At sunrise on Sunday morning, I am still going strong on LSD. It’s a beautiful day. I’m again unsure of what to do with myself. I take 0.20 mg alprazolam, thinking I’d relax and maybe sleep, but with the sunrise, I feel my natural circadian rhythm kicking in and a building sense of wakefulness. After a coffee, some nutritious cereal, and 5 mg Adderall, I decide to go for a run. The morning is perfect - temperature, humidity, breeze, sunlight. I jogged to a nearby biological reserve and watched the sunlight dance through the early autumn foliage. I stood, beholden to nature, as the day transpired around me. The birds went about their daily routine - hawks cruising between powerful staccato wingbeats, vultures soaring effortlessly, various birds and insects fluttering by. I laid on the forest floor and looked up for at least an hour at the verdant canopy, as the light filtered through the clerestory in my feracious cathedral, simply thankful to be alive.

Life seems so straight-forward and transparent right now. I just had a few long, beautiful, flawlessly flowing conversations (one with my wife in India via video gchat, another with my sister-in-law in Colorado, and finally a phone call with a close friend that recently moved across the county to Seattle). Contentedness and serenity are the words that come to mind. Occasionally, I feel tears of joy welling up.

The beauty of the post-apocalypse, Shangri-la phase of the experience is that the message was simple and clear. The world is as it must be; I accept it graciously in spite of all cruelty and suffering. I must do my part, both in taking care of myself and in being kind to others. I suppose it's something that I will continue to try and integrate, as it was rediscovering an enlightened way to live, a glimpse of Samadhi. As I waxed romantic, a piece of Wordsworth poetry came to mind, from ‘Tintern Abbey’.

And I have felt
A presence that disturbs me with joy
Of elevated thoughts; a sense sublime
Of something far more deeply interfused,
Whose dwelling is the light of setting suns,
And the round ocean and the living air,
And the blue sky, and in the mind of man:
A motion and a spirit, that impels
All thinking things, all objects of thought,
And rolls through these things. Therefore am I still
A lover of the meadows and the woods,
And mountains; and of all that we behold
From this green earth;​

Many of the positive effects have persisted through Tuesday and even into Wednesday. An unusual inner calm was present and I found it effortless to exude warmth to people I interacted with, which in turn created feedback loop of positivity.

As strange as it may sound, I've already concluded that there's not much to figure out from the middle segment of the trip. It was pure psychotic absurdity. It's amazing how lucid my memory is of much of the event, and yet it hasn't shown any hints of PTSD-like after effects. Quite the opposite, I feel like I have been instilled with a renewed vitality.

LSD is good medicine. In the words of Huxley, it is a gratuitous grace.


Tagged by bindingaffinity
substancecode_3meopcp
substancecode_achs
substancecode_dissociatives
substancecode_lsd
substancecode_lysergamides
substancecode_ketamine
substancecode_4hodmt
substancecode_tryptamines
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explevel_experienced
exptype_positive
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roacode_buccal
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roacode_im
 
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Nicely crafted report, Don. The placement of the Wordsworth quote was especially effective in conveying the recovery and relief of your emergence from that dank dark tunnel into the crisp air and verdant expanses of an affirmational state.

I have noticed a sense of control over my own life in the throws of dissociative or dissociative/5-HT psychedelic trips that I could imaging swelling over its banks and into outright delusions of mastering the fate of the world itself -- godhood. In fact, that might have happened a little during my last DXM/ondansetron/3-HO-PCP trip (550 mg/ 16 mg/ 5 mg IM). I remember pacing around my apartment with a manic grin allowing the absurdity to build freely before finally buckling over in laughter. This laughter seemed to topple over whatever shrine I had built to myself in the previous minutes and would leave me in a state of amused bewilderment with what just happened, and then the process would start all over again. I thought it a lot of fun, but I don't doubt it could have exhausted my rational mind at higher doses, or longer durations. Who knows what could transpire then?
 
Great report. Very well-worded. Dissociatives have far and away the best afterglow of any class of drugs I've tried -- they leave me with a week-long gratitude for the glories of the natural world, and make me realize how much of a gift life is.

The part about your wife's name reminds me of a thought I have very frequently on ketamine, that always makes perfect sense to me at the time: Time is a Moebius strip; I am God and I created this universe I now behold, but over time I got lost in this world I created and came to forget that I created it, and that's where all the world's problems started. But now I've reconnected with my creation, and all is at peace.

The above is actually a metaphysical idea I entertain seriously from time to time. But when I'm sober, it seems like a flight of fancy, an elaborate 'wouldn't it be cool if...' type scenario. On Ketamine or 3rd~4th plateau DXM, however, its truth seems patently obvious.
 
Thanks. :)

MyDoorsAreOpen said:
The part about your wife's name reminds me of a thought I have very frequently on ketamine, that always makes perfect sense to me at the time: Time is a Moebius strip; I am God and I created this universe I now behold, but over time I got lost in this world I created and came to forget that I created it, and that's where all the world's problems started. But now I've reconnected with my creation, and all is at peace.

The above is actually a metaphysical idea I entertain seriously from time to time. But when I'm sober, it seems like a flight of fancy, an elaborate 'wouldn't it be cool if...' type scenario. On Ketamine or 3rd~4th plateau DXM, however, its truth seems patently obvious.

The thought of being God, lost in a world that I created, is exactly what I experienced, though there was nothing peaceful about this notion. As God, I wanted nothing more than to be reinserted into the matrix and to lose all recollection of this chaotic nightmare in which the world did not exist. That said, I can certainly see how such a thought could be perceived very differently from within DXM's warm embrace.
 
What? I can gain no more insight into what any of the drugs you took do... Stuff happened, whoppy fucking do. Same here. I once drank a bottle of whisky, snorted a line of ketamine and pissed the bed. How does this add to our knowledge of psychedelics?
 
A temp ego boost, even into the realms of feeling god like never hurts, as long as you realize afterwards that it was all delusional and was nothing but a flight of fantasy. Then again, on a day to day basis I have something of a sense of low esteem due to various things in my past, so occasional moments where I feel my opinions are important, if only to myself, are quite welcome (and yes if you want galloping megalomania, LSD and a dissociativbe like 3-MeOPCP will do the trick!)##Overall though, I agree with Dondante that the drugs that most people get long term benefit from are psychedelics like LSD, which show you the big picture ie that you are a little cog in a big machine, in that yes you can make a valuable contribution, but not to get too impressed in your importance in the overall scheme of things
 
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A temp ego boost, even into the realms of feeling god like never hurts, as long as you realize afterwards that it was all delusional and was nothing but a flight of fantasy.

I think you misunderstand. I can't speak for Dondante, but I definitely don't find the visionary states imparted by powerful and/or high-dose dissociatives to be at all ego-boosting, megalomaniacal, or the like. If they've made me a pompous ass, I would hope somebody would have the heart to tell me. I've never felt anything like I imagine a fawned-upon guru or rockstar would feel during or after using ketamine, DXM, N2O, or 3-MeO-PCP. I contrast this sharply with my experience of stimulants -- if amphetamines tell you you're superman, believe them at your own peril. I've found dissociatives have had a lot to teach me that I have been able to bring back into my sober life.

If you've found that dissociatives have made you feel in jeopardy of going on an ego trip, that's really unfortunate, and is probably a sign you should be cautious with them. Not all drugs or drug classes are of equal value to all people, of course.

Overall though, I agree with Dondante that the drugs that most people get long term benefit from are psychedelics like LSD, which show you the big picture ie that you are a little cog in a big machine, in that yes you can make a valuable contribution, but not to get too impressed in your importance in the overall scheme of things

I think that really varies from person to person, and what they reach out to any given drug to do for them. This is similar to how some people with high blood pressure need beta blockers, and some need thiazides. FWIW, I venture a guess most people have neither need nor use for what any psychedelic, or dissociative, has to offer them. Things that humble us in our view of ourselves in the greater picture have their place. So do things that exalt us.
 
^It's not the all powerful god ego trip I'm on about, but the all understanding. The sort of thing where you understand (on some level at least) the connection between any two topics you bring to mind. The only feeling of omnipotence come from undersrtanding and in the back of your mind you know in 6 hours time you'll be that confused bag of protoplasm, so while in this state of mind, why not bask in the feeling that nothing is beyond your comprehension; even if making a cup of tea takes over half an hour! =D.

I find psychedelics can bring you to the same place, but instead of feeling, what is almost a smug contentment, they leave you humble, in a state of awe at, what Douglas Adams would refer to as "life, the universe & everything". Neither actually open up all of the knowledge you feel they have, it's more that they remind you what is possible
 
^It's not the all powerful god ego trip I'm on about, but the all understanding. The sort of thing where you understand (on some level at least) the connection between any two topics you bring to mind. The only feeling of omnipotence come from undersrtanding and in the back of your mind you know in 6 hours time you'll be that confused bag of protoplasm, so while in this state of mind, why not bask in the feeling that nothing is beyond your comprehension; even if making a cup of tea takes over half an hour! =D.

See, I've not found that I've returned to the same state of confusion promptly after dissociatives wear off. On the contrary, a lot of the understandings I've gleaned have stuck with me and inspired me after the altered state has worn off. In time I've needed a reminder / refresher, which is why these drugs are great to do on special occasions.

But thanks for the clarification, and I agree -- the value in both psychedelics and dissociatives (and similar drugs) has to do with perspective and understanding.

I find psychedelics can bring you to the same place, but instead of feeling, what is almost a smug contentment, they leave you humble, in a state of awe at, what Douglas Adams would refer to as "life, the universe & everything". Neither actually open up all of the knowledge you feel they have, it's more that they remind you what is possible

Again, I think this is a matter of where you're coming from, and what you need, want, or expect from the drug. I'll only speak for myself, but I'll be very candid. There have been a lot of times in my life when more humility is exactly what I didn't need. I've struggled for years with self-confidence, decisiveness, and motivational issues despite knowing intellectually that I'm a multi-talented and capable man.

Your use of 'smug' reminds me of how I've read several secular humanists describe traditional religious faith, which I don't think is accidental or incidental. I have tried and tried, and I can not, for the life of me, glean anything uplifting, empowering, or inspiring from the Humanist glorification of human insignificance. If it does the trick for you, I won't try to convince you otherwise, since I'll be the first to admit none of us have any final answers to the big questions.

I mean no disrespect, F&B, because talking with you about dissociatives is like talking to Albert Hoffman about LSD. It's just that as someone who has found real and lasting spiritual value in dissociatives (used in moderation and in the proper set and setting), I feel moved to retort when someone, even someone as pioneering and accomplished in this field as you are, encourages other [potential] users to see these drugs' subjective effects as entirely delusional.
 
Insights gained can be inpirational after the event (if you can remember them; dissociatives have a far more delitorious effect on the memory than serotonogic paychedelics IMO), but the state of mind while intoxicated is volatile to put it mildly. Rapid bouts of logical thinking interspersed with prolonged periods of being unable to grasp the simplest concept mean that, as a rule, even the bouts of rapid intense logical thinking must be veiwed, at least on first premis, as probably having some flawed concepts upon which it's based on. I've had a few insights that with hindsight don't seem to be flawed in any significant way, but I've had plenty others where the original concept that started me thinking was a load of bollocks and any deep insight on a flawed original premis, is still going to be flawed

Personally I prefer serotonogic psychedelics for the simple reason that I'm more inclined to remember what happened, what thought processes took part etc much more readily than with dissociatives. Also, while long term use of psychedelics might make some people 'colourfully eccentric', dissociatives seem a lot more likely to take you all the way to 'batshit crazy' (compare say Ken Kesey with John Lilley. The result of Kesey's exposure to psychedelics made him think we'd discovered a new way to think and see things, which is in some way true. John Lilley came to believe that all coincidences on earth were arranged by some central alien office - I think the jury is still out on that statement!

I'm not saying that nothing of spiritual or otherwise value can be found, just don't suspend your analytical skills being applied to those states when clear headed and drug free
 
MDAO, thanks for your comments. I'm glad you've found the dissociative experience to be so valuable.

I can't say that I feel quite the same way. I find the dissociative state intriguing, but I can't think of many personally meaningful insights that have come from my experiences with this class of drugs. Really, there is one early experience with DXM that comes to mind that I consider valuable beyond hedonism and novelty value, and that's it. I'm fascinated by dissociatives primarily because the state is so unique, and potentially more alien than any other drug experience. But when I ask myself, "What did I gain?" I can think of nothing. That's not to say I haven't experienced many cosmic "Ah-Ha!" moments in the depths of a dissociative experience. It's just that the profound sense of beauty in the interconnectedness of life that I've experienced with 4-AcO-DMT (when all higher cognitive systems are online and memory encoding is intact) seems much more compelling that any "epiphany" that I've experienced in a disorganized dissociative state. And to be clear, for me, dissociatives don't typically tend to catalyze delusions of grandeur or any kind of ego trip. That said, at higher doses, MXE and 3-meo-PCP seem lend themselves to delusional thought patterns, possibly due to the increased dopaminergic activity. ...perhaps my view of dissociatives is tainted by an experience last winter with MXE in which the act of taking a shit was afforded the status of divine imperative.

5-HT psychedelics, OTOH, can be insightful and incredibly therapeutic...though not always, or even predictably so. Drugs like LSD and psilocybin create a window that allows me to step back from life and see the big picture, to see what's really important, all while experiencing an impossibly profound sense of gratitude.

I'll keep thinking about the value of the dissociative experience, and I'll be sure to post if anything else crosses my mind.

*phew...even with the autosave button, I managed to delete my post. Frustrating, but I think I recalled most of it.
 
Great chat, indeed. Guys, I will definitely grant you that serotonergic psychedelics are far kinder on your memory than dissociatives, and a decreased ability to form and retain memories entails all sorts of practical problems. At the same time, forgetting and letting go most definitely have their place, and if used therapeutically*, dissociatives can help with that process a lot. This class of drugs is a balm to a mind that overthinks things, and has derived much existential and interpersonal pain from overanalyzing.

I am facing the prospect of going from zero to three kids overnight this coming winter, and taking an enormous test that will determine the rest of my career this autumn, and I am calmer than I have ever been in my entire life. Part of this is life experience, a supportive setting, and my determination to think positively. But I really think part of it is also my use of DXM, ketamine, and theanine.

I find a mike and a voice recorder come in great handy during a dissociative experience for getting down ideas that would otherwise slip away. I find that on later review they're kind of like verbal Rube Goldberg machines -- they're coherent and they get the job done, and often quite elegant and fascinating, but definitely not to-the-point. I can't write or type when I'm dissociated.

I've found serotonergic psychedelics to be much more likely to give me ideas I'd immediately want to label 'silly', and chuckle about then promptly forget. 5ht psychs are like stepping into a funhouse for me, or reading a story where a jester or village idiot has something important to say underneath his buffoonery. There are lessons to be had, but these drugs speak in riddles and rhymes, and weave a rich tapestry over everything.

Dissociatives, by contrast, are not really fun or 'edutaining', but just... profound. If you use them as your tool to do this, they can strip away all the layers of the subjective experience of 'you', and leave you facing just the naked core of your 'I'-ness, undisturbed by any thought trains or stimuli. It's the state that most of the spiritual practices I ascribe real merit to aim for. Dondante, I'd probably have a good laugh if taking a crap felt like a divine imperative, since that made me lol now. But in all seriousness, probably dissociatives' greatest lesson is that every moment you behold is the greatest moment in the history of the universe, and every action you take has cosmic significance. YMMV, but I find I can access that attitude on life now when I'm sober much easier, having used dissociatives.

I'm in no way trying to knock 5ht psychs. They're amazing. They're both entertaining and life-changing, which is hard to say about many things in this world. LSD is in my top 5 favorite drugs, and I've had some pretty memorably kickass experiences on various phenethylamines (for the most part, tryptamines are not my cup o' joe). But saying they have more inner change merit than dissociatives is kind of comparing apples and oranges. I seek out these two classes of drugs in very different moods and settings. You don't rent an action flick when a syrupy romantic comedy is what scratches the itch tonight.
 
I'm fascinated by dissociatives primarily because the state is so unique, and potentially more alien than any other drug experience.

More weird than salvinorin A/salvia & other drugs that target the KOR? For me they could be the dictionary definition of alien
 
Heh...now that you mention it, in my original post (before I managed to delete it), I'd added in parentheses that salvinorin was the exception.
 
dissociatives seem unwholesome, they are also delicious in small doses and give a feeling of contentment. they do make me feel like i'm tapped into the motherboard, but in an egocentric way. they are certainly not humbling for me
 
When has being unwholesome been a reason to avoid something. Most drugs are tainted with that brush, but it's never stopped people taking them! =D

Like with kids, exposing them to the odd situation that's not totally sterile does them a world of good in that it strengthens the immune system, but also makes food allergies less likely. A little bit filth/unsavory situations in life do you a power of good
 
i dont avoid them at all though. methoxetamine however demands the occasional break as tolerance shoots up and you find yourself staying up for ages. my favourite combo was very strong brewed coca tea (tuxillense- tiny leaves, mild golden tea taste, high cocaine content), lyrica and methoxetamine. the high acctually felt like i WAS honey, i could taste the high in my mouth and brain and it flet like honey. try it if you can. truxillense leaves are so worth it, one of my friends describing a very potent batch of tea as "like crack".

truly unwholesome
 
i dont avoid them at all though. methoxetamine however demand the occasional break as tolerance shoots up and you find yourself staying up for ages. my favourite combo was very strong brewed coca tea (tuxillense- tiny leaves, mild golden tea taste, high cocaine content), lyrica and methoxetamine. the high acctually felt like i WAS honey, i could taste the high in my mouth and brain and it felt like honey. try it if you can. truxillense leaves are so worth it, one of my friends describing a very potent batch of tea as "like crack".

truly unwholesome
 
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Not wishing to derail this thread, but is coca tea noticably different to snorted cocaine? I ask as when snorted it turns me into a grade A arsehole, but I've heard rumours that the tea is a lot less likely to bring out any arseholish behaviour and is in fact a nice mild stimulant (like the difference between say snorting methcathinone and chewing khat leaves)
 
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