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    Has anyone experienced BZ ? 
    #1
    Its funny that the only positive effect listed on erowid is "upon recovery from effects, some subjects report a refreshed feeling and good mood " followed by shitloads of neutral/negative effects.But its definately something i would try as Im one of those who consider deliriums fun.Anyone here tried this bizarre stuff ?
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    #2
    From what I understand, since it is a war gas, it is highly illegal.

    Not gonna lie, benadryl sounds better than this stuff.
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    #3
    Bluelight Crew any major dude's Avatar
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    yeah, weaponized dissociative agents can be hard to get ahold of... and its both a weapon & a tropane alkaloid derivation, these would be things to avoid.
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    #4
    Bluelighter StaySedated's Avatar
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    wtf? bz is a chemical warfare agent that is the most potent anticholinergic out there. feel lucky if you have not tried it.
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    #5
    Bluelighter Splitz's Avatar
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    Have you never seen Jacob's Ladder?? Ok so that was heavily fictionalised but come on!

    http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/bz/bz_article1.shtml

    Sounds hilarious, but certainly nothing fun (understatement?)
    Last edited by Splitz; 03-09-2010 at 16:03.
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    #6
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    I prefer VX nerve gas and a few lines of weaponized anthrax for the comedown.
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    #7
    Bluelighter General Patton's Avatar
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    Well I know Ken Kesey experienced the anti-cholergenic Ditran along with Mescaline, LSD, psylocybin and AMT. It's described in decent detail in The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test. Man imagine the anxiety of THAT come up, given a dose without being told what it is, and what you experience an hour later you experience.
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    #8
    Bluelight Crew phenethylo J's Avatar
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    you'd probly be way safer off with datura lol
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    #9
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    During the second phase, sedation, stupor, and even semi-coma develop. The individual sleeps, or appears to sleep, and responds only to direct and sometimes only to strong, stimulation. Spontaneous groping or crawling may alternate with lying quietly. The subject mutters incoherently from time to time. Sometimes he shows "obstinate progression" as he stubbornly tries to crawl in a straight line over, past and through all obstacles. As this primitive behavior (reminiscent of the "running response" in decorticate animals) subsides, the subject enters a third phase, beginning at during 12 hours, during which more spectacular symptoms develop.

    "Hallucinations seem to dominate the field of awareness, and real objects and persons are generally ignored or ludicrously misrepresented. Touch seems to become the most important sensory system, and the hands are ceaselessly active, exploring clothing, bedding, walls, floors and crevices of the environment. Smoking and drinking of phantom cigarettes and beverages are very common. "
    As speech returns over the next few hours, it is in clipped, flat accents, containing rapid bursts of commonly associated words and phrases, particularly those that are most colloquial and habitual. Logical continuity is lacking and most sentences are meaningless or absurd. Hallucinations seem to dominate the field of awareness, and real objects and persons are generally ignored or ludicrously misrepresented. Touch seems to become the most important sensory system, and the hands are ceaselessly active, exploring clothing, bedding, walls, floors and crevices of the environment.
    While incapable of sustained intellectual effort, the subject may persist in an activity in spite of failure, ceaselessly prying at cracks in the wall, for example, in an endeavor to escape from an enclosed area. Sometimes he may succeed in conveying some wish, such as a desire to use the latrine, and then be too confused to execute his intention. At other times, he may react violently to hallucinated events and engage in pantomime combat with phantom assailants or in ludicrous play with imaginary companions.

    As recovery proceeds, the subject gradually begins to converse in a more rational and coherent fashion, but his grasp of the situation is still impaired and he often makes paranoid misinterpretations. He may feel, for example, that someone is out to kill him or that his food is poisoned. He may wonder why he is under such scrutiny and why he is being 'treated like a kid'.

    While recovering, the BZ-intoxicated subject tends to deny that he is impaired and tries to make excuses for errors or failures during testing or questioning. The casual examiner may be fooled into thinking that little or no impairment is present. During this period, the overall demeanor and manner of acting is sometimes reminiscent of paranoid schizophrenia.
    Why in the fucking world would anyone want to experience this? This was developed as a BIOLOGICAL WEAPON and it's also extremely neurotoxic... Just look at those effects... It's active at mcg/mg amounts, even in gas form.

    If you are looking for a safer (there is NO safe way, as the reason you are intoxicated is due to neurotoxicity) to experience a deleriant would be to pop some benadryls or dramamines (diphenhydramine/dimenhydrinate). Which I wouldn't recommend. However, that is really one of the only ways to "meter" your dose (with hell's bells you never know exactly how much atropine/scopolamine you are consuming as each leaf varies in alkaloid content)
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    #10
    Bluelighter phew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psilocybonaut View Post
    If you are looking for a safer (there is NO safe way, as the reason you are intoxicated is due to neurotoxicity) to experience a deleriant would be to pop some benadryls or dramamines (diphenhydramine/dimenhydrinate). Which I wouldn't recommend. However, that is really one of the only ways to "meter" your dose (with hell's bells you never know exactly how much atropine/scopolamine you are consuming as each leaf varies in alkaloid content)

    Will there ever be a non-neurotoxic deliriant? Isn't it possible? At least something that mimics the effects exactly, even if though different mechanisms.
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    #11
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    Will there ever be a non-neurotoxic deliriant? Isn't it possible? At least something that mimics the effects exactly, even if though different mechanisms.
    Completely non-neurotoxic? I'm not sure....

    I know that Benadryl/Dramamine are some of the less neurotoxic ones...

    This made me laugh (from the erowid link)
    One subject tried to provoke a fight with a simulated gun mount; another said 'Excuse me, Sir' to the water fountain when he accidentally brushed against it. In more extreme states of confusion, he may even initiate conversations with hallucinated individuals. He conducts these one-sided conversations in such a natural, unstudied manner that acting is out of the question.
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    #12
    Bluelighter StaySedated's Avatar
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    hey, who knows? maybe this highly unpleasant and unpredictable chemical warfare weapon will be the newest "designer drug". ahhh, i can see it now- little pills of the stuff being sold at raves, lindsay lohan being nailed for possession of it, all the hard partying rock stars overdosing on it, the cheaper gas form of it being sold and inhaled for a "rush" by addicts on the street. BZ is gonna take the drug market off the charts!!!

    it's gonna suck when the DEA steps in and make it a schedule 1 controlled substance. then there will be a whole new RC market for it's analoges...
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    #13
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    hey, who knows? maybe this highly unpleasant and unpredictable chemical warfare weapon will be the newest "designer drug". ahhh, i can see it now-
    lindsay lohan being nailed for possession of it
    that made me laugh too.

    ..."Anticholinergics I Have Known And Loved"
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    #14
    Bluelighter StaySedated's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psilocybonaut View Post

    ..."Anticholinergics I Have Known And Loved"
    lol i'm still waiting for AiHKAL...
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    #15
    Antimuscarinics I almost knew, but completely fucking forgot about?

    How are the longterm neurotoxic sequelae of antimuscarinic deliriants mediated, and what histological/morphological changes present themselves? I wonder if it is possible to attenuate the toxicity with other agents.

    And you really do know when a drug is one nasty motherfucker when sarin nerve agent would make the ideal antidote (in controlled doses mind you), or perhaps better one of the V agents, VX has a much longer duration of action, in keeping with the fiendishly long duration of BZ.

    Not something I would willingly try, I wouldn't turn down the opportunity to get hold of a small sample, but that would just be sealed under argon in a vial as a collectors item and never actually used, well, certainly not unless I had burglars in the house, then by all means, mix it with some methamp, a hefty dose of an older, typical antipsychotic such as haloperidol or chlorpromazine to block out any possible euphoria, some ket, and maybe flumazenil (benzo antagonist at GABAa), that would teach the lil bastards to go out tealeafing :/

    It has to be quite effective if it gets past MOPP gear in a combat setting, given what simple ordinary diphenhydramine does, I can't take the stuff, not in an abusive way, mind you I haven't tried, and never will, but a single 25mg tablet leaves me unable to string together a coherent thought, going to the damn toilet was hard enough after the last time I took it, BZ? would probably cretinize me sufficiently to make me too forgetful to remember to become a delirious, raving, leprechaun-waving, invisible-cigar-smoking fruitcake.

    And who on earth would wish to nail lidsay lohan? second thoughts, I will take the BZ, it might make me think she is some less-revolting variety of monster
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    #16
    Bluelighter StaySedated's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Limpet_Chicken View Post


    And who on earth would wish to nail lidsay lohan? second thoughts, I will take the BZ, it might make me think she is some less-revolting variety of monster
    i ment "nailed" as in being caught ("nailed for possession").

    but i'd still fuck that strung out bitch...
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    #17
    Yes, I knew what you meant....but ew, gross.

    Vacuous lambda-list* celebrity gobshite with a loud mouth and huge tits, that appears to act as though under the impression that all that is desirable in life equates to money, sex and NT celebrity 'culture'

    * (thats like A/B/C list, only so low down one has to resort to the greek alphabet, having run out of roman letters to choose from :P)

    And hey, you might fuck her, only to be told later, that you were actually having it off with a fire hydrant, a thorn bush or maybe a small dog, if you were intoxicated with BZ.

    About the only good thing about it, is that it was designed as a less than lethal incapacitant, which I guess, is just marginally better than having your eyeballs turn into blisters thanks to lewisite or mustard gas (plus cancer later if you survive, most likely), choking to death on phosgene, or suffocating and having your muscles spasm so hard you break your own back thanks to G, or V or novichok nerve agents.

    Its not a long drawn out painful death, its just a long drawn out painful period of life, so I guess that sort of counts as a positive point? no, second thoughts, actually it sounds like fucking shit, come to think of it.

    Probably more better than having to screw lidsay lohan though.
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    #18
    Bluelighter wtblife's Avatar
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    About the only good thing about it, is that it was designed as a less than lethal incapacitant, which I guess, is just marginally better than having your eyeballs turn into blisters thanks to lewisite or mustard gas (plus cancer later if you survive, most likely), choking to death on phosgene, or suffocating and having your muscles spasm so hard you break your own back thanks to G, or V or novichok nerve agents.
    That just left me experiencing muscle weakness and barely able to move with my eyes watering. Those images, justgahhh.
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    #19
    Bluelighter wtblife's Avatar
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    Strange thought, would some sort of hypnotic sleep gas be considered chemical warfare? I mean that sounds like the most peaceful kind of warfare I can imagine, put everyone to sleep and then bar them up.
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    #20
    Bluelighter StaySedated's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wtblife View Post
    Strange thought, would some sort of hypnotic sleep gas be considered chemical warfare? I mean that sounds like the most peaceful kind of warfare I can imagine, put everyone to sleep and then bar them up.
    yes, there are "sleep gases" out there. they are like surgical anesthetics, very short acting and usually act on GABA receptors. i'm sure they're more peaceful than BZ...

    ultrashort acting barbiturates and chloral hydrate have been used as "truth serums"in interrogations(they don't *make* you tell the truth, they just lower your inhibitions so you can easily be tricked into saying things), but i don't know if that counts as "chemical warfare".
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    #21
    Bluelighter johannes kreisler's Avatar
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    tried and failed:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_...chemical_agent

    this thread is hilarious btw.
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    #22
    Oh it worked alright, they took out some collateral though, but in an actual war setting that wouldn't be so likely.

    Although there was no arresting done, as far as I know, the russki special forces just walked in and shot the terrorists dead while they were unconscious.

    Those bastards really don't fuck about.
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    #23
    Quote Originally Posted by johannes kreisler View Post
    tried and failed:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_...chemical_agent

    this thread is hilarious btw.
    It might not have failed so badly if the hostages weren't in terrible condition from, well, being held hostage, and the first responders were given proper antidotes. Naloxone won't do jack shit for someone who inhaled a whiff of carfentanyl. It's really quite remarkable it worked as well as it did considering that they gassed them with a fentanyl derivative dosed to knock people out...! Only in Russia!
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    #24
    Bluelighter PippUK's Avatar
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    It is rumoured to have been used on civilian crowds during the Yugoslavian war in the 90's (Not by the UN forces!). Unwell civillians displayed a pattern of symptoms that medical authorities matched to the BZ profile.
    Don't go looking for it. It's the kind of substance that might flag you up as a nutjob or terrorist if you were to make enquiries.
    I don't think Jacobs Ladder was meant to reflect the effects profile of BZ in particular. The plotline relating to secret experimentation was lifted from historical fact (See Project MKULTRA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKULTRA , the frankly daft attempt by the military to achieve mind control.) but the rest of the film is just excellent fiction.
    I am fascinated, like many, by the dark mystique of the natural belladonna alkaloids, but I would never take them. Some brave and/or foolish people love them, but they scare me. A compound which takes a whole bunch of distressing or uncomfortable effects and prolongs their duration to the extreme has got to be a no-no.
    Take care. Perhaps discretion is the better part of valour. Erowid has some interesting documents about BZ.
    Peace - Pipp.
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    #25
    Bluelighter Splitz's Avatar
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    It is intriguing. Very very interesting, but worthwhile? I reckon only a real masochist would ever want to poison themselves for a 3 day state of utter delirium.
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