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Opioids My Embeda Experiment

C

codynf86

Greenlighter
Joined
Mar 14, 2010
Messages
3
Hello all,

Long time lurker first time poster lol. I have an ungoly amount of the 30mg ones and I am conducting an experiment...all input is greatly appreciated.

I am soaking the pills in an acidic water-based solution to transfer the morphine sulfate into solution then preparing the solution for IV.

My question really is that each of these only has 1.2mg of naltrexone in them. I know naltrexone pills are usually at least 25mg...is 1.2mg even enough to cause precipitated WDs in dependent people?

Just let me know your thoughts and suggestions.
 
This is the first i've heard about Embeda...so i googled it and looked at www.embeda.com

So what i've gathered is that Embeda capsules contain morphine and naltrexone. You do not want to be IV'ing naltrexone.
 
The naltrexone is encapsulated in wax so as long as I soak the beads but don't crush them I should be fine.

Just wanted some input about how long I should soak them to dissolve all the MS off the surface of the beads.
 
^ahhh well that is beyond the scope of my knowledge so hopefully somebody who knows will be able to provide you with an acceptable answer to your inquiry

good day friend
 
well, people shoot suboxone and that has 2mg naloxone and it doesnt do anything.....
 
Yes... See, Buprenorphine actually has a VERY high binding affinity. So although normally Naloxone will snap people from an OD, because it has a HIGH binding affinity... Bupe's is HIGHER... (Which is why people should NEVER attempt to use it for recreational effects, also it doesn't have a very good high; if you do OD on bupe, you might be screwed.) So while using Naloxone on a normal opiate or opioid might send you into searing withdrawals, the Bupe in Suboxone binds higher on the receptors preventing the Naloxone from affecting you, and thus it doesn't matter how you use the Suboxone, as it will not have any effect. (Although, SUPPOSEDLY if you just eat the Suboxones, it SOMEHOW prevents it from working properly and the Naloxone will affect you... But I can neither confirm nor deny those allegations.) I do not know ANYTHING about this opiate you speak of, which is strange considering my MASSIVE database of knowledge I'm keepin' in my noggin'. So I'm going to guess it's fairly new, rare, or something not generally prescribed in the U.S. However, morphine most ASSUREDLY DOES NOT BIND HIGHER THAN NALOXONE! DO NOT IV A MIXTURE OF THE 2 UNLESS YOU WANT TO WASTE THE MORPHINE AND POTENTIALY GO INTO PRECIPITATED WITHDRAWALS! As for the wax beads and all... No idea. Hope this helped.
 
o_O

i tend to agree with the above poster....why would they mix an opiate like morphine with naltrexone? it seems like a bad trick for opiate abusers...
i decided to look around and i found this article?
http://chronicfatigue.about.com/b/2...blog-abuse-resistant-pain-killer-approved.htm

it says that the naltrexone is contained inside the capsule, and is only released when the pill is crushed or broken... but then, i looked at embeda website and they said that you can break the capsule open and eat the pellets in anything (applesauce specifically)
this was found in the patient medication guide.


So which is it? is the naltrexone in a different part than the morphine? b/c if this is true then you could simply take the naltexone part out and bam, morphine sulphate.
 
XSmokumsX said:
i tend to agree with the above poster....why would they mix an opiate like morphine with naltrexone? it seems like a bad trick for opiate abusers...
i decided to look around and i found this article?
http://chronicfatigue.about.com/b/2...blog-abuse-resistant-pain-killer-approved.htm

it says that the naltrexone is contained inside the capsule, and is only released when the pill is crushed or broken... but then, i looked at embeda website and they said that you can break the capsule open and eat the pellets in anything (applesauce specifically)
this was found in the patient medication guide.


So which is it? is the naltrexone in a different part than the morphine? b/c if this is true then you could simply take the naltexone part out and bam, morphine sulphate.
Click to expand...

Naltrexone has a low oral bioavailability (estimates range from 5% to 40%). So if you eat it it's not going to interfere that much with the morphine contained in the capsule. If you shoot it you may get more, but I'm not even sure on that.


A 100mg Embeda contains 4mg of naltrexone. Since "Clinical studies indicate that 50 mg of Naltrexone hydrochloride will block the pharmacologic effects of 25 mg of intravenously administered heroin for periods as long as 24 hours. Other data suggest that doubling the dose of Naltrexone hydrochloride provides blockade for 48 hours, and tripling the dose of Naltrexone hydrochloride provides blockade for about 72 hours," it sounds like this would mean shooting one Embeda would give you the effects of about 80mg of morphine rather than 100mg. (Not taking into account morphine lost through preparation, of course).

Basically, I'm getting the sense that naltrexone is used in Embeda and Suboxone to make doctors think "this pill can't be easily abused, so we can prescribe it instead of a generic formulation."
 
cowmama said:
well, people shoot suboxone and that has 2mg naloxone and it doesnt do anything.....
Click to expand...

That's because buprenorphine has a higher affinity to the receptor compared to naloxone.

Morphine has even less affinity.

Plus, with each shot I do, I only consume 25 micrograms (or, 0.025mg) of naloxone.
 
If anyone is interested here are the results after my experiment was completed. I ended up not shooting the MS, but instead I soaked 300mg worth of the beads in water for 6 hours.

I then drank the water and swallowed the beads...strangely enough I got an ok opiate buzz after about 45 minutes that stayed at the same level for about six hours...it then slowly got a bit stronger until I fell asleep. I woke up this morning completely wrecked and have been all day and am still going strong.

There is no real point I'm trying to make just posting my results,which so far the buzz has lasted well over 24 hours...I'm actually impressed after being disappointed for half of yesterday.
 
Experiment

Not sure soaking had any effect.
How is your result different than taking 300 mg ER morphine orally?
As product can be taken once a day -you are just experiencing the normal effects of a high dose...
 
I just want to chime in on my Embeda experience.

I have been using opioids for roughly 8 yrs now. I used heroin before for 2 years, been on Bupe, then after being on those things for a while, I hurt my back, and have Fibromyalgia.

I have been on Opana for 2 and a half years now, 30 mg 3 times daily. I wanted to take a break from opiates about 2 weeks ago, and told this to my Pain Dr.

He said Suboxone wouldn't help me, and that I should switch to Embeda 80 mg. I agreed.

Anyway. I took one pill in the morning, not crushed, chewed, IV'ed etc. Just swallowed the pill. I started feeling crappy roughly 2 hours after taking it, So, I took another one because i though it might just be that I was going through withdraw.

About an hour later after taking my second pill, I started to have the worst withdrawals I have EVER had, even when I DT'd from H. My muscles would not stop twitching, and I was in full blown WD in about 3 hours. I cant stress enough that this was the worse EVER.

Anyway, I went to my Dr. that day and got my Opana back for now.

My Dr. couldn't believe this was happening. He thinks he is God or something.
I reported this to the FDA and to King Phrm as well. My Dr. said even if I crushed the pill, It wouldn't be enough to send me into WD like that.

Just putting my 2 pennies in
 
I was recently prescribed Embeda as well, as a a chronic pain patient and an someone who likes opiates, I will say it worked well for the pain and for a good amount of time. The problem for me is that I also want at least a little of the good feeling from it and I don't want any opiate antiagonist! (I'll save that reason for another discussion). I had some side effects from it and told the doc and he switched me to just regular MS Contin. Now with the Embeda I was honestly just too afraid to do anything to it because of all the withdrawal warnings. Having said that, anyone who is in chronic pain around the clock, I would definitely recommend Embeda over something like methadone anyday!
 
Talwin NX was injected by many despite the manufacturers attempts (the first product containing an agonist or partial agonist and an antagonist for the purposes of deterring IV use of an oral pill), as is Suboxone.

I doubt Embeda or Oxytrex and co will be injected any less.

Just for the sake of argument, some people say that minute (meaning far, far below the active doses) of antagonists combined with agonists/partial agonists in an IV shot increases the rush- on BL. Search function should turn up such threads.

It was my understanding (and I could certainly be completely wrong) that an opioid dependant person who is facing acute withdrawals could inject such a preperation (like Talwin NX or Embeda) and get the opioid effect and not precipitated withdrawals.

(/2 cents).
 
tried it

well....I attempted it using the same method codymf did. I Just let it sit in the spoon and soak for a couple hours....heating it occasionally to a brief simmer...then backing off. Anyways...it worked. Just don't crush them! I made the mistake of thinking that the antagonist would just decrease the effects of the morphine...but it totally reversed it, sending me into DT's....the only thing that could bring me out of it was some suboxone (due to the higher affinity over the naloxone).

Anyways...I'm gonna try to rinse it and I'll let everyone know. I'm just worried if it soaks too long, it'll release the naloxone in the core of the beads....and that my friends, would be bad.

Thought everyone should know...someone had to have the balls to try it %)
 
oh ya....when I stated:

"I made the mistake of thinking that the antagonist would just decrease the effects of the morphine...but it totally reversed it, sending me into DT's....the only thing that could bring me out of it was some suboxone (due to the higher affinity over the naloxone)."

That was in reference to a different time I tried doing it WITH crushing the pills.
This time I did not crush the pills and the naloxone was not released....u just have to soak them for quite a while (a few hours).

I made the solution slightly acidic to help increase the solubility of the morphine. Although...on the other hand....since the naloxone is a HCl salt...it might increase it's solubility as well. Hmmmm....so actually, it probably wouldn't make one fuck of a difference if u made it acidic or not :p
 
I am about to acquire some of these. I'll try the soak the beads uncrushed method. What did you use to acidify the water? I am going to use non acidic water when I experiment with shooting these. I suppose what is left on the spoon after shooting would be best to eat orally, since I don't want to risk shooting any of the crap in the middle.
 
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