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The Large and Nifty Not-quite-advanced Drug Chemistry, Pharmacology and More Thread

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If the end result is death, I fail to see how helping someone do it 'better' is harm reduction.

I mean, by the same logic, you could say that you're planning to murder a bunch of people and ask for the way that is the quickest and least painful and consider it harm reduction.
 
Of course it is! Death is, perhaps, the most harmful thing that can happen to somebody, but it is still possible to reduce the harm caused by it. And couldn't euthanasia be considered harm reduction?
 
Going back to the tryptamine question, I noticed that Shulgin said this later on in the tryptamine entry about tryptophan:

Tryptophan, a natural and nutritionally essential amino-acid, is a centrally active intoxicant and sleep-provider in man. It is converted metabolically to tryptamine which is a little bit psychedelic. When administered with methionine (another amino-acid known to methylate things) it produces methylated tryptamines, the two best studied being N-methyltryptamine (NMT) and N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT).

Is he saying that tryptophan + methionine = methylated tryptamines in vivo? Does anyone know if there is any scientific articles about this, or if he's just guessing, or extrapolating from in vitro?

This also seems to contradict what he says just before it:
(with 15 g, orally, with 150 mg iproniazid) "This was a daily treatment given to schizophrenic patients, tryptophan along with an antidepressant which is a monoamine oxidase inhibitor. Most showed marked changes such as an elevation in mood, an increased involvement with other people in their ward, and an increased extrovertism. A separate study of this combination with the addition of the amino acid l-methionine produced in about half of these patients a toxic or delirioid state."

Anyone have more information about this?
 
Not according to the BLUA.

Sorry. It's just that... where else is one to go to obtain this information? The only forum on the internet that I can think of that allows this sort of discussion is alt.suicide.methods, but those people know next to nothing about pharmacology. Besides that, because they are all very depressed - notwithstanding the numerous trolls - they are phlegmatic and perfunctory participators; even if they actually had some valuable information to share, it'd be pretty hard to provoke the conative portion of their psyches into activity of such a degree that they'd feel any compulsion at all to toss their hands lackadaisically at the keyboard until some travesty of what they had intended to type appeared on the screen.

tl;dr: I must turn to people with a good understanding of pharmacology who have enough energy to respond to my question. In my mind, that means bluelighters. I can think of no other more appropriate place for this question. Curse you, BLUA!
 
Right, because anyone would be stupid enough to engage in this activity. There's a nurse not far from me facing extradition to Canada for supplying this sort of information to a girl who went through with it.

It seems that lately there have been more and more absurd attempts to twist "harm reduction" into some unrecognizable abomination to justify what the poster wants. It's about reducing the damage caused by recreational drug use. Suicide definitely doesn't fall under this.
 
Right, because anyone would be stupid enough to engage in this activity. There's a nurse not far from me facing extradition to Canada for supplying this sort of information to a girl who went through with it.

Well, I didn't have it in mind that my question would be answered in this thread. It takes all of one minute to create a new e-mail account and even less time to erase one.
 
You think anyone would risk jail time to help you kill yourself?

And I thought I had a big ego.
 
You think anyone would risk jail time to help you kill yourself?

No. It's precisely because I deemed the risk of anything like that happening to be low that I am asking this question now - so low that it's negligible. I would hate for anyone to risk imprisonment for my sake.

I mean, it's not as if I were going to write in my suicide note "I was talking to some people on the intarwebs and they told me how to go about ending my life! They're screen names are: [...]" I mean, how exactly would it be discovered that someone had given me advice - especially if that advice were transmitted in a surreptitious way, there being no vestiges of that correspondence whatever? More problematic still: even if it could be proven that I had acted on advice given to me by some individual or another, it would be far more difficult to show beyond a reasonable doubt who that individual was, since most people have dynamic IP addresses that change with some regularity and because most people have wireless internet these days, so it can never be known for certain just who's leaching their connection. Moreover, any advice I might receive would be acted upon months or years from now and I doubt any of the police officers or medical personnel investigating my death would think to ask themselves "Gee, might someone have helped him with this and if so who might that be? I know, I'll scour every inch of the web in hopes of answering that question!" (Even getting in touch with my ISP to find out which websites I had been visiting would do nothing.)

Besides I'm am not really sure that that constitutes, according the the law, assistance with suicide. The fact that someone should have answered the question "What readily obtainable substances can produce death reliably, painlessly, and quickly?" wouldn't be proof of intent to abet a suicide. It could be argued that the answering of the question was merely an intellectual exercise.

So what I am trying to understand is this: if both parties communicated through e-mail via newly registered e-mail addresses (and registered with false information at that), and those e-mail addresses were deleted immediately after the informational transaction had taken place and the suiciding party made it appear that he had obtained the information necessary to kill himself through his own research, how could the risk of imprisonment for whichever compassionate person had come to his assistance be greater than, say, .0000001%?


Whatever, I'll just learn how to crack my dad's safe... I fucking hate this country and its demented theocratic laws.


Edit: Look at ASHers or the busstop people (or whatever), for example: they are indirectly responsible, I'm sure, for dozens and dozens of deaths, yet none of them was ever arrested. One of them had that website going for years on end containing advice on how to kill oneself and what implements to use and she was never indicted of any crime at all. In many cases the idiot suicides had left clues as to where they'd gotten their information, leading the authorities right to that website, and although the address of residence and name of the proprietor could have been obtained within seconds, she never faced any legal troubles at all, not even so much as a civil suit, as far as I know. I just don't think it bears even a fraction of a fraction of the risk which you say. I would guess that there's just a little to your story about that Canadian nurse that you conveniently left out.
 
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/I'm truly very sorry to steer the topic of conversation to my personal problems yet again, but this site is really one of the very few places I have to turn to. I can't afford professional help anymore, and even if I could it would be pointless; I have tried 8 or more psychiatrists and psychopharmacologists in the past, each of whom has made things worse for me either by prescribing something that made me feel worse or by refusing to prescribe what I wanted whilst failing to refuse to take payment (which in my mind is fair if you're, you know, not actually providing a service).

Did you know there is an entire sub-forum on bluelight, full of caring people who will talk to you and help you through your problems?
Pills aren't always the best way to go. Maybe you could just use someone to talk to.

The Dark Side: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/forumdisplay.php?forumid=47
 
Shibireru, your discussion is spiraling into irrelevance to this forum. Further posts about it will be deleted.
 
Why are halogens rarely seen in tryptamines, synthetic or otherwise? I've heard of an aquatic source of 5-bromo-dmt, but nothing else... There seem to be so many in phenethylamines, it seems like someone would've tried it... I'd always thought this to be a bit strange... any thoughts?
 
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I completely agree with you shibiberu, but you're deviating this thread a bit. Though It seems to be a common problem with official or "large and nifty" threads.
 
@Enkidu:
Although I don't have evidence at hand for it, I would think: No, not really. At least not alone, i.e. without exogenic cannabinoids. The stimulation by endocannabinoids lasts normally only a very short time, due to fast in vivo metabolism. Or not?

- Murphy
 
I have little experience with these, but it seems more likely that they'll produce antidepressant and anxiolytic effects (or maybe not the latter? not a common cannabinoid effect) but probably won't result in cannabimimetic-type effects, basically the way RIMA's don't produce MDMA or even Fenfluramine type effects.
 
Well, RIMAs aren't exactly GPCRs. I think a better correlation would be the action of benzodiazepines, which are (positive ?) modulators of the GABAa receptors. Yeah, I know, those aren't GPCRs either... but it seems to be a better correlation, at least to this poor guy.
 
What does receptor type matter? FAAH inhibitors prevent / slow the metabolism of the relevant endocannabinoids, increasing EC concentrations. RIMAs inhibit the metabolism of 5HT and NE, resulting in higher concentrations.

I don't think benzodiazepines are relevant at all.
 
Oh, wait. I see that you're responding to
^ what about FAAH inhibitors?
instead of me when you said:
it seems more likely that they'll produce antidepressant and anxiolytic effects
I thought you meant 'they' to be CB1 modulators.

Why don't you think benzodiazepines are relevent?
 
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